Chemical & Mechanical Not destructive tests Dated Turin Shroud in 1st Century.

a reply to: andy06shake


Admittedly as well pretty much any other system of Religion as it is World wide.

The idea that human perception is absolute is suspect outside the condition of probability.

It would seem that when I look at an object with the common senses what it is in entirety escapes me.

a reply to: abgdabisd16

"Jesus has given numerous messages through mediums throughout the years."

Prove it please!

I could tell you im Jesus or that he talks to me, and/or i am a medium, but that does not make it so.

Situation and response generally dictates belief.

a reply to: Kashai

"It would seem that when I look at an object with the common senses what it is in entirety escapes me."

Keeping in mind that any objects we perceive are strictly of the 3 dimensional nature. We see what we want to see or we see what our limited collection of senses and dimension allow us to perceive.

Concepts such as AI or the singularity, if it ever comes to pass, may well open new horizons as to what humanity can perceive but a paradigm shift the likes of which we have never seen would need to transpire before we could experience such.

And that dialogue in the old Hell Raiser movie springs to mind

"We have such sights to show you!
We'll tear your soul apart!
This isn't for your eyes!
Ah, the suffering. The sweet, sweet suffering."

We should possibly be careful what we wish for given our current trajectory as a species.

Rant over. to much red wine. LoL

a reply to: andy06shake

In physics, Kaluza–Klein theory (KK theory) is a unified field theory of gravitation and electromagnetism built around the idea of a fifth dimension beyond the usual four of space and time. It is considered to be an important precursor to string theory.

en.wikipedia.org...

What Nature builds in theory that could be fundamental to us.

You did say I could rant.

The wave form of matter could represent in a manner of speaking to these five dimensions structurally in relation to the matter form currently observable.

a reply to: Kashai

From Chaos comes order apparently, then again Nietzsche's quite a *****(female dog) to get ones head around. Plus he was a crazy bastard for sure.

Call it nature, call it organised chaos, call it divine order. End of the day the only true way we can yet perceive such universal mystery is through our limited understanding of science and mathematics(Probably should say my limited understanding of mathematics, LoL).

Then again sometimes apparently "if you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you". That's whatever God is i imagine, or if not that's ok, because we are not that far off from building our own.

And when we do our days are numbered i imagine.

Rant away but i need to go to bed in 45mins, school run tomorrow.

Edit: I apologize The angel of light if i am somewhat drifting offtopic.

a reply to: Kashai

I can just about understand the general premise of this Kaluza–Klein theory, but most of the equations are above my ability to comprehend or utilize.

Like the Wikipedia states, Its considered apparently to be a precursor to string theory.

Another concept i have problems getting my head around, yet none the less interesting.

a reply to: andy06shake


Yeah its complicated but implied is related to why we are animated.

One way of relating that I found interesting is that at perhaps the condition of an object from the context of its structure atomically, time as a frame of referent. And in how we relate to it in the common. This is due to its physical properties of time being represented at such scales to a greater extent than we can perceive with the common senses.

Beyond that there is relating to matter perceptually and otherwise differentially.

Another issue would be that the behavior of a matter wave should conform structurally to space time curvature and theoretically.

a reply to: The angel of light

The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear Readers,

Here it is a really very interesting video produced on the research of Professor Giulio Fanti a faculty member of the Mechanical Engineering department of the University of Padua, Italy, who is the head of the multidisplinary team that includes researchers of other two Italian Universities that have carried out this Historic New Dating of the Shroud of Turin entirely based on Not destructive tests.

"the dates given to the Shroud after FT-IR testing, is 300 BC ±400, 200 BC ±500 after Raman testing and 400 AD ±400 after multi-parametric mechanical testing. The average of all three dates is 33 BC ±250 years."

Please check:
theshroudofturin.blogspot.com...

For the ones of you that are asking for the return of the thread to its original topic and prefer images than to read this is really nice material since it is pretty comprehensive. Anyway the video is a really useful introduction that can give you elements to start to read the scientific papers that they have written and are shared here in the thread along my posts.

Here is the link to the video:

www.youtube.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Why do you keep posting what you have already posted?

As for your and the sites line of " carried out this Historic New Dating of the Shroud of Turin entirely based on Not destructive tests"?
Care to link to the ACTUAL study, instead of a biased site?

And, as explained beyond belief, any tests done after your rediculous shroud society decided to "preserve" the shroud, won't be accurate because of contamination.

a reply to: The angel of light

Convention against Torture (CAT)

International law recognizes that rape and sexual violence can constitute a form of torture. The Vatican ratified the Convention against Torture, which requires it to take all necessary actions to ensure the right to be free from torture and punish acts of torture. In May 2015, the Vatican was reviewed for the first time by the Committee Against Torture (CAT).
Following the review, the Committee issued a condemning report finding that the widespread sexual violence within the Catholic Church amounts to torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment prohibited by CAT, and outlined a series of recommendations.

ccrjustice.org...


Further reading...

www.inquisitr.com...

Cases of sexual abuse (particularly of children) and subsequent cover-ups committed during the 20th and 21st centuries by Catholic priests, nuns, and members of Roman Catholic orders have led to numerous allegations, investigations, trials and convictions. The abused include boys and girls, some as young as 3 years old, with the majority between the ages of 11 and 14.[1][2][3][4]

en.wikipedia.org...

So your saying that this should be a valid source for science??

A authority on historical textiles examined the cloth. She had only seen this style weave once before. It came from a cloth found in the ruins of the Masada. The Masada cloth has been dated to within 70 years of the birth of Christ. She states that this weave has never been found in Medieval Europe.

Start at the 8:06 mark

a reply to: sad_eyed_lady


Yeah but if someone knew that in the 1300's the would simply use the same weave.

a reply to: sad_eyed_lady

It's a herringbone weave. Pretty common in medieval times.

a reply to: sad_eyed_lady

Hi Dear sad_eyed_lady,

That is a very interesting video, certainly restorers have found that the shroud is not only weaved with the 1st century distinctive techniques but also the stitching of the strips to the principal and largest piece was performed in a way only in Masada has been found before.

This has been validated with the help of archaeologists that were working on recover evidences of the terrible siege that rebel hebrews had in that place surrounded by Roman troops in the 70 A.D.

One of the specialists was Swiss textile historian Mechthild Flury-Lemberg. She was surprised to find a peculiar stitching pattern in the seam of one long side of the Shroud, where a three-inch wide strip of the same original fabric was sewn onto a larger segment.

The stitching pattern, which she says was the work of a professional, is quite similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada. The Masada cloth dates to between 40 BC and 73 AD.

please check:
newgeology.us...

Here there are more links that list some of the most famous examinations by textile experts of the Shroud along History, and there was consensus that from manufacturing aspects it is definitively coming from first centuries of the common Era.

www.shroud.com...

www.shroud.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

For the sake of discussion...

Database of Publicly Accused Priests in the United States...

www.bishop-accountability.org...

Welcome,

Vatican Abuse is the official website administered and funded by private citizens.
On this website you can find many documentations like:

international network of public complaint about crimes of children sexual abuse committed by Vatican officials.International public  databases who report complete lists with names, pictures, dioceses and crimes of Catholic priests.Missing Children databases

Police warning and police suggestions about the children safely.

International news in different languages about the crime cases.

Our goal is to highlight the names of Catholic priests and their sexual crimes against the children. Many of they are protected by the Vatican power who, many times, interferes with governments and with the courts to hide the crimes and the authors.

vaticanabuse.com...

Further reading on Christian Priests convicted of sexual abuse.

www.ranker.com...

So your saying that modern science should embrace Vatican science?

a reply to: The angel of light

Have you got anything to back that up outside of obviously biased sites?

I mean, come on. Every single thing you've posted about the shroud is linked to someone vested in the shroud being real. Show me something from someone who ISN'T.

a reply to: The angel of light


See if a major institution with world wide implications is having problem with its members engaging in statutory rape with three year olds or minors otherwise?

That is not really a valid source for either scientific or technological research.

a reply to: The angel of light

Well done.

Ray Rogers, as you know, was one of the lead researchers in the original 1988 testing on the shroud.

I found an interesting article about how in attempting to disprove a theory suggested that he realized the truth he missed.

Sue Benford and Joe Marina, from Ohio, suspected the 1988 sample was from a damaged section of the linen shroud repaired in the 16th century after being damaged in a fire.

Rogers said: "I was irritated and determined to prove Sue and Joe wrong."

However, when he came to examine threads taken in 1978 - luckily from the same section as the 1988 sample - he found cotton in them.

He said: "The cotton fibres were fairly heavily coated with dye, suggesting they were changed to match the linen during a repair.

"I concluded that area of the shroud was manipulated by someone with great skill. "Sue and Joe were right. The worst possible sample for carbon dating was taken.

"It consisted of different materials than were used in the shroud itself, so the age we produced was inaccurate."

Turin Shroud 'could be genuine as carbon-dating was flawed'

Here's the video mentioned in the article. Information on new evidence begins at 22 min mark.




Sorry if you already posted this. I am having trouble sitting and haven't been able to read your thread yet.