There's no mental illness

Your argument is with the profession of psychiatry. As with any profession they have an association that defines thdie profession, determines their scope of practice and ethics.
For them to set themselves apart from "just a" psychologist or counselor they need to prescribe medications.
There is the problem.... There is no evidence of neurotransmitter deficiency syndrome (serotonin, nor epi, etc.) as cause for any mental illness.
SSRI's, NSRI's, anti-psychotics, etc, do nothing.
There is no way to determine neurotransmitter levels in the brain, even the pharma co. knows this. They use "could be, possibly," in their documents.
As for SSRI's there is no other medication that treats so many disorders/conditions; depression, schizophernia, PMS, personality disorders, anxiety disorders, behavioral disorders, etc.
That's your argument, not that there's no mental illness. As a health care professional, until you've seen someone who will do anything to kill themselves, cut off their dick, cannot function in society, Wil kill you to kill themselves, you don't know what your talking about.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: supermilkman

It isn't HATE ,it's only a TOOL.
Hate would actually LEAVE me no choice BUT to attack and kill ,completely cloud martial judgement and BOOM you have Abu Grabe,messy crime scenes and ah...I ain't THAT kind of coward or pussy ,WE as YOUR military are YOUR sin eaters.

At one point, the VA actually did something that made sense. They screwed around for a brief shining moment with a concept then known as "the Safe Buddy". The idea was that you could train up interested vets who had been in similar situations who could act as confidants, neither family nor psychiatrists, who would listen, talk to, hang out with, and evaluate people with PTSD, service associated mental illness etc and not be seen as a fink or a finger pointer.

The caveats were that you had to take a lot of psych courses and do some practical work at a mental facility to learn how to assess and evaluate.

A few of us did it. Me included. It worked. And of course, since it worked, it was discontinued. But it had great success while it was going on.

I can't count the number of times I spent "camping" when some of my former bros-in-arms needed to just get away from people. Or the calls I got (or still do) when someone was seeing 'gooks' in the treeline or was behind the grocery store with a rifle or whatnot. But that's ok. It was worth doing. I was real surprised when they canned it. I shouldn't have been, I suppose. But it was effective.

Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware that a program like this ever existed.

And I agree - it makes an awful lot of sense, especially since those doing it on behalf of their brothers in arms all do so voluntarily.

What a shame and a big non-surprise that they canned it.

Maybe someone should talk to Gen. Mattis about this? That man is both a soldier's soldier and one of the smartest people that's ever served. I bet he'd see the wisdom in this before you finished your sentence.

I think I have an email address where he supposedly can be reached...

a reply to: Riffrafter

There's organizations outside of the VA that do this as well.
The VA is a broken, bloated system way past a top down change in leadership.

originally posted by: gabewalker
a reply to: Riffrafter

There's organizations outside of the VA that do this as well.
The VA is a broken, bloated system way past a top down change in leadership.

I agree. It's a national disgrace. And it's not even a money issue per se, it's how the money that is allocated to the VA is currently spent.

I really believed that Trump could have hit a grand slam is if he did this:



Sinise cares, is very, very smart, and has already done and continues to do *so* much for our veterans.

Trump really missed a golden opportunity here. And I bet Gary would have taken on the task for no salary to boot.

[sigh]

originally posted by: Riffrafter
Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware that a program like this ever existed.

I sort of stumbled upon it/was voluntold to try out by a VA guy.

It took some effort but was worth doing. I am not sure why they canned it, other than probably liability issues. I sort of understand, but the benefit seemed to outweigh the risks.

I'm sure there are a few people that were never arrested because of me. At least during the time it went on. It would probably save a lot of money and people's quality of life if it were continued.

a reply to: Bedlam

I sort of stumbled upon it/was voluntold to try out by a VA guy.

Voluntold?!?

Yet another instance where I shall "appropriate" a term or phrase you've used!

I will, of course give proper attribution as always.

Voluntold*

* © Bedlam - All rights reserved

I'm assuming you are going to copyright this gem, correct?

Thanks!

Ayahuasca, has shown promise but....... It doesn't "fit" with the psych model of prescribing meds.

originally posted by: supermilkman
a reply to: ignorant_ape

Malaria is a parasitic infection. It is a physical disease.

Mental illness labels are abstract. There is no physical evidence for mental illness.

I think it would be interesting to visit a shaman a north american shaman who is highly in tune with nature, to see what their opinion or impression would be about someone suffering from some sort of m. illness; it would be interesting to discover their take and diagnosis..

originally posted by: supermilkman

originally posted by: Reverbs
a reply to: supermilkman

I've known people with real mental illness where their reality was not the same as mine. 1000s of black widows running over the floor to kill her that her husband set out as a trap..

but on the whole I think people are way over diagnosed mainly as a tool to harvest money..

Like growing a herd of people addicted to SSRIs...

I've experienced all ranges of human emotion but no one thinks of me as crazy even though my ranges are higher than others.. And the reason for that is I am responsible and "level headed" I make sense even when I seem over excited or under sxcited..

mostly people are "crazy" when they can't handle their emotions.

so in that sense I completely agree,

I jsut don't want to rule out ALL mental illness.
we counting autism?
my second grade class had a "joined class" that would sometimes come over of 6 kids who never learned to talk.. had no idea what social norms were including peeing in the middle of the classroom.. They had some mental illnesses.

The mental health system rejects the person's religious beliefs. Many believe in the paranormal/spirit world so why should they be considered hallucinations? Linear science is proving that paranormal phenomena such as telepathy exists.

Secret military experiments have used remote viewing for years.

As for autism it's all BEHAVIORAL problems. People are considered retarded when they don't reach certain milestones in development (i.e. bed wetting in your 20's, playing with toddler toys into adult hood etc.)

You don't correct these problems with mental illness labels and brain damaging medicine, you correct them through behavioral and occupational therapy. You teach one more acceptable behavior, not force feed them pills.

Are you saying that autism can be "cured" using therapy?

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Yes i know how you feel Tarzan

Yes it is incomplete but i can read between the lines.

Normal people do not understand depression and i can understand that, i never knew the pain of broken bones until i broke a few, i know now though BUT milkman has read a book or two and thinks he knows it all, them people annoy me.

"WE" have to learn that we cannot please everybody and our main goal in life is our own happiness and i use that word loosely...! Happiness comes in a lot of ways.

Keep working towards your latter half my friend and i hope it is an easier ride than the first half and always remember, you are not alone in this sh#t.
I will buy one of them T-shirts if you ever print them...!

Tomorrow is always a new day.

Keep fighting

a reply to: supermilkman

I don't know that it's accurate to say there is no
mental illnesses at all. But I
would fervently agree psychiatry
and psychology are just a
sham for pencil pushing pinheads
who can't handle real work.

a reply to: tony9802

I think it would be interesting to visit a shaman a north american shaman who is highly in tune with nature, to see what their opinion or impression would be about someone suffering from some sort of m. illness

Not interested in their opinion.

originally posted by: AmdusiasWhich as best I can tell or find out. Has been caused by drug use socially..

The mind is a very delicate instrument/ organ.

There is no complete understanding of how social drug use affects the mind other than it has a negative impact.

So, first it is dangerous.

Second the people you associate with in that environment are not your friends.

a reply to: Bedlam

HEY MAN ,I'd sell my SOUL for a ZBRUSH tutor...retention issues MAY take 2 years, BUT I'll GET it!

a reply to: ParanoidCovKid

If you want to believe fictitious diseases exist then that is on you. Sounds like nothing but hypocondria to me.

One of the biggest problems with people is that they can't accept life is full of suffering no matter what path you take. People want to avoid it but you really can't. Disease, ageing, poverty, death etc are inescapable facts of life.

People seek pleasure and want to avoid suffering but ideally you need to learn to accept both.

originally posted by: Indrasweb
a reply to: supermilkman

Ok, you are absolutely correct that the overwhelming majority of people with mental health problems are not a danger to society. Many of them are also not a danger to themselves, that we can agree on.
I also concur with your statement that there are significant cultural influences on what is perceived as normal and abnormal. No one who works in mental health would classify service users as "bad", that kind of attitude is simply incompatible with the role of a mental health professional.

Where we can agree just about ends there however.

I will respond simply with this:

I wrote my initial reply during my lunch break at the facility i currently work at. As i left the room where i was eating/writing i met one of the ladies who is currently staying here (voluntarily i might add).
She was sobbing uncontrollably and said to me "i can't go on like this, why do i feel like this, why was o born like this, I've struggled with this ALL my life... I just want to be ok... I am SO tired, just worn out, yet when i lie down i just can't rest, it's like i'm in hell"

So, do you think that she doesn't need help? Do you think she'd be just fine if everyone just left her alone? Do you think there's no such thing as mental illness for her?

I have had many people come and tell me to my face that, without my interventions they would be dead now. I'm not saying that to blow my own trumpet, i don't do my job for pats on the back (in truth i'm much more likely to get spat on or assaulted) but i mention it to try and illustrate to you that the suffering for those with mental health problems is very real indeed.

I never said there wasn't any mental health issues. Mental health issues are directly related to external/environmental cues.

The woman you described sounds like she was at her wits end. Society IS overwhelming for many people.

In China they have suicide nets in their factories. There has been studies that people are becoming more suicidally depressed with our current debt problems. Many think we're heading into a depression.

I'd say that the system needs reformation and change to make people feel less stressed.

You should really check out my third industial revolution and industry 4.0 threads. I suggest ideas like a new global currency, automated industry, 4 hr work day/16 hr work weeks, renewable energy etc.

We could solve many stress factors by restructuring our system first.

originally posted by: redhorse
a reply to: supermilkman

Well that's a simplistic perspective but I take your point. There are a few issues compounding the situation; the primary one being reimbursement. Mental health is the most poorly compensated modality in healthcare while healthcare itself is poorly compensated overall. I know, I know. Nobody likes to hear that but it's true.

Also, talk therapy or even a cognitive behavioral approach are too time consuming for most Insurance companies to have patience with. They want a provider to spend an hour with a client, punch in a diagnosis and give them a pill. There is an insidious collusion with Big Parma that is very harmful.

Finally, the best money in mental health is in frankly exploiting the worried well. There really isn't that much wrong with them but they have enough free time that their mind is throwing up sparks and they have been taught that everything should be perfect and they should always be happy, and if they aren't, then they are failing, and they worry more, and around and around they go. Good steady income in pushing the neurotic just enough to think that they need to see you every week, especially if they can afford to pay you out of pocket so you don't have to play the insurance/Medicaid/medical coding game.

Full disclosure, BS in psychology and personally disheartened by the industry, so I have a big ol' dog in this hunt.

Good post, I agree. I think perspective is key when coping/managing with life.

Something I personally do is compare my way of living to impoverished third world countries. People in third world countries don't even have food or shelter. Heck, even your modern day average joe lives better than wealthy people of older centuries.

I also think what it must be like being an astronaut in space. Being trapped in space in closed corridors for months at a time.

Something as simple as that makes me realize that I have it pretty good compared to others. After a while you learn to be thankful for the few things that you do have. I'm glad just to have heating and air conditioning as well as other things.

Is there still problems in the world? Of course, they should be addressed. I think engineering/industry is going to save the world but that's just me.

My mindset is on improving the pre-existing "process" to allow a better quality of life.

originally posted by: fusiondoe
my mental health team, GP and various doctors over the years who have looked after me when I was hospitalised for Psychosis bought on by severe depression and Schizophernia. Thanks for letting me know that they were all wrong.

What an ignorant thread

a reply to: supermilkman

They coerced you into being on medicine.

Here's something to think about:

Scenario A: Let's say there is a dog and a human. Let's say the human corners the dog into a corner. The dog's natural defense mechanism would be to bark and possibly attack the human cornering them into the corner. This would be a NATURAL and HEALTHY response.

Scenario B: Let's say the human gives the dog a medicine that makes it weak and complacent. The human then corners the dog into the corner of a room. Well since the dog lost their natural defense mechanism from the medicine it ends up not being able to protect itself from the encroaching human.

Do you get it? The medicine disables you.

Drugs are used to keep you DOWN.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: supermilkman

a couple of problems with this. One, the over diagnosis of psychosis does not negate that some psychoses DO exist.

Two, anyone who has objectively studied the rate of abuse as a child in homosexuals should understand that much of homosexuality IS mental disorder brought on by trauma as a child, sometimes physical, sometimes sexual.

That is not to say that all homosexuality is brought on by mental disorder and/or that there is not a physical or hormonal aspect to some homosexuality, but to carte blanche state that homosexuality in all cases and forms should just be accepted by society is disingenuous or self deception at best and potentially conspiratorial at worst.

Jaden

I understand that there is acute psychosis. From what I've experienced it's usually drug induced however.

Homosexuality, despite how it was caused, it still a human right. If one chooses to be homosexual then they have a right to do so.

Anti-gay is considered a hate crime so you can't consider it a mental disorder.

But then again that's the whole point, there was never any mental disorder to begin with.

If you're going to say homosexuality is a disorder then I guess guys like Alan Turing was a pretty messed up person, huh?