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'Space federation'

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gl2

posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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I should say how I feel. I oppose any harm done, any weaponisation of the human alien context. We can have technology to safely monitor and patrol our skies without blasting aliens down to scavenge their advanced technology. I've never advocated, nor will I advocate harming or killing an alien. We can do better than that.

I've been an activist for non-violence all my life, although the right to overthrow a tyrannical, corrupt government is surely valid. My reports may be different than Nancy M. for example, but we should all share what we know. Then we'll learn more. By writing a book and on the web in detail, I share my awarenesses. I've been in contact groups, have gone to some conventions and I correspond with numerous researchers.

Whether it is immediately apparent to some, or not, advanced life evolves from animal origins. Due to flaws, sometimes corruption, sometimes aging and a kind of emotional dessication due to LONG, LONG extended alien lives, some at the peak of a given collective's heirarchy can begin to rationalize the sacrifice of others. When the gray planet died, didn't the larger federation look on? Based upon voluminous evidence of many researchers, it should be obvious that the federation does, in fact, intervene directly in desired planets' affairs. That's clearly what the hybrids are about. So why didn't they intervene to save the original gray planet? Why would they come down here, favor some over others, even go so far as to breed hybrids (they aren't in a museum "out there," frankly--they are used to further the given collectives objectives), and then not have a direct presence here. That's the whole point in making them look like us--to mix and blend in, probably in selective, strategic positions (unknown to the average person). They have vast material and resource, personal and social needs.

We would be naive to assume that, given their breeding program and obvious staging here, on this planet's surface, they don't have certain objectives in mind. Imagine the time and expense of what they've done. How do they explain that to their people? They have to be moving toward a goal. The most cynical, dessicated (often aged) old stalwarts (yes, they do have a heirarchy, a government that gives some authority over others) can easily decide that if some grays get shot down, during the course of their play-both-sides-off-of-each-other intervention here, that sacrifice is necessary for their common good (probably argued in terms of their ideals, not their resources, for propaganda purposes, of course). So, we have the ugly, disturbing prospect of higher-level "federation" aliens deliberately putting grays into harm's way, essentially knowing that criminal elements in our black budget structure will kill and try to use them for profit. As long as they hold out the hope that breeding program hybrids can effect their objectives here, the sacrifice can be written off as normal. Huge, complex governments suffer certain ironies. Aliens have individual psychologies, wrapped into the larger social identity, of course. That is to say, some aliens will be cold, capable of actions that lead to harm. They aren't all the same, nor are their formative experiences.

We have different experiences, but as long as we all share them, the truth--a probable mix of all experiences, will be clear to others. By the way, Nancy, the federation you know does not represent ALL aliens. The universe is so much larger than that, that it should be obvious. True, a larger sharing of all alien governments' info comprises a kind of community, but think for a moment: a hundred billion galaxies, maybe 1/10 of which are large spirals or ellipticals/lenticulars. Multiply those billions by tens of trillions, and you see that the gray-related federation is but a tiny, tiny fraction of the whole. Indeed, we live out on the (out in the woods) fringes of a relatively small supercluster of galaxies--Virgo, just 2000 galaxies. The federation, at most, would represent, the dominant populations of but a few galaxies, at most, plus some scattered other planets. The Horologium supercluster, some hundreds of millions of light years off is 10,000 galaxies or more and it is the standard, large sized supercluster.

So, a small federation of but a few galaxies isn't all the aliens out there. Instead, it would be 1/10,000,000,000 th of the total visible galactic populations. Then, add to that aliens who came, conceivably during previous universe cycles and may be able to obscure themselves yet exist in large numbers, and the federation isn't the main act, frankly. That's one ten billionth of the total VISIBLE likely aliens. Your assertion that they are all the aliens is like a future human on this planet of ten billion saying he/she is all the humans that live. It isn't a scientific estimate.

That larger diversity will work to our betterment, in the future. There are certainly alternatives. I, along with others, am well acquainted with some such alternative aliens, many of whom are BILLIONS of years more advanced than the most advanced species of federation aliens. Of course, to be fair, federation aliens will try to say that they have interacted with more advanced aliens. They may even try to model themselves, loosely, in similar terms, but let's be honest. They aren't that advanced.

Science, data, numerous observations and analysis will give us the best picture. Sure, you like those aliens. I remember when I first encountered them, too. I was literally awed. Later, I encountered others, who helped me develop a much larger context for an analysis.

[edit on 11-2-2005 by gl2]




posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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Collin...

The virus came from one of those three websites with messages from the Capricorns, not from the Yahoo-group message board. It utterly stalled the PC, making it necessary to reinstall the Windows XP system, a drastic decision that wipes out everything one has been cramming into the hard drive for months. It also destroyed the innards of the poor mouse, but a one-year guarantee allowed me to receive a brand-new one in a matter of hours. It is odd that on a previous post I warned someone here that the person was running the risk of being thrown out like a dead mouse, and just a few days later I had a dead one on my desk. I would say that this coincidence is a corroborating sign and that this person is in danger.

You are wary of fearsome predictions. Concerning this matter I follow “the C’s & the P’s”, the Cassiopaeans and the Pleiadians, who are neither psychic nor psychotic, nor could they ever be since they are not people in our, human, terms. That is why I distrust those that have been flooding the present thread with endless streams of persiflage (fine word !) that contradict these other two sources, whose messages are as consistent and convincing as Seth’s (Jane Roberts).

For instance, they believe that the famous Grays are a race of charming, gentle creatures, rather than a mere bunch of “cybergenetic probes”, something like the wheeled Martian robots, through which the Reptilians see and act at a distance. They are remotely-controlled robots.

They also seem to be unaware of the fact that Billy Meier has been caught faking his UFO photographs and that he no longer has any credibility in the UFO field. Furthermore, he claims to be a channel for the Pleiadians.

However, these fellow ATS members of ours have delightful imaginations and they have already furnished enough material for the next few generations of science-fiction writers all over the Local Group of galaxies. Maybe that’s why so many spaceships are being seen coming and going.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by gl2


I should say how I feel. I oppose any harm done, any weaponisation of the human alien context. We can have technology to safely monitor and patrol our skies without blasting aliens down to scavenge their advanced technology. I've never advocated, nor will I advocate harming or killing an alien. We can do better than that.

I've been an activist for non-violence all my life, although the right to overthrow a tyrannical, corrupt government is surely valid. My reports may be different than Nancy M. for example, but we should all share what we know. Then we'll learn more. By writing a book and on the web in detail, I share my awarenesses. I've been in contact groups, have gone to some conventions and I correspond with numerous researchers.


gl2

I read your post, and, WOW, you are good. But not good enough to sway those who know the aliens. You gather too much moss on your quest. You appear to be too invested in what you have already professed.


Whether it is immediately apparent to some, or not, advanced life evolves from animal origins. Due to flaws, sometimes corruption, sometimes aging and a kind of emotional dessication due to LONG, LONG extended alien lives, some at the peak of a given collective's heirarchy can begin to rationalize the sacrifice of others.


You speak as if all alien life is the same, and then again in other paragraphs, as if they are all against each other...


When the gray planet died, didn't the larger federation look on?


The Grey's planet did not die. And the advanced races have always been willing to help other less advanced races.


Based upon voluminous evidence of many researchers, it should be obvious that the federation does, in fact, intervene directly in desired planets' affairs. That's clearly what the hybrids are about.


Voluminous evidence is flawed, due to its sources being corrupt. Advanced races do not and cannot intervene into another planet's affairs without an invitation. That does not mean from its corrupt governments, such as on Earth, either.


So why didn't they intervene to save the original gray planet?


The Grey's planet did not die.


Why would they come down here, favor some over others, even go so far as to breed hybrids (they aren't in a museum "out there," frankly--they are used to further the given collectives objectives), and then not have a direct presence here. That's the whole point in making them look like us--to mix and blend in, probably in selective, strategic positions (unknown to the average person). They have vast material and resource, personal and social needs.


The advanced races are not breeding hybrids. The Greys are one single race here now, and they are no longer breeding hybrids either. Alien people nor hybrids can live on Earth. No alien race has infiltrated ours. The alien races work through willing individual humans only.


We would be naive to assume that, given their breeding program and obvious staging here, on this planet's surface, they don't have certain objectives in mind. Imagine the time and expense of what they've done. How do they explain that to their people?


You speak of all races here as the same. They are not. There are no more breeding programs going on at Earth, because the organization of races stopped The Greys from carrying it out, by giving them what they need in other, more appropriate ways.


They have to be moving toward a goal.


The organization of visiting races has a goal. It is to build a diplomatic relationship with our world. The only thing in the way is the social and political structure of our humanity.


The most cynical, dessicated (often aged) old stalwarts (yes, they do have a heirarchy, a government that gives some authority over others) can easily decide that if some grays get shot down, during the course of their play-both-sides-off-of-each-other intervention here, that sacrifice is necessary for their common good (probably argued in terms of their ideals, not their resources, for propaganda purposes, of course). So, we have the ugly, disturbing prospect of higher-level "federation" aliens deliberately putting grays into harm's way, essentially knowing that criminal elements in our black budget structure will kill and try to use them for profit.


Now that The Greys are working within the organization, they have the same protection from the organization as any other race visiting. The advanced races do not sacrifice anybody to humans, within or without the organization.


As long as they hold out the hope that breeding program hybrids can effect their objectives here, the sacrifice can be written off as normal. Huge, complex governments suffer certain ironies. Aliens have individual psychologies, wrapped into the larger social identity, of course. That is to say, some aliens will be cold, capable of actions that lead to harm. They aren't all the same, nor are their formative experiences.


Now you say they are not all the same. There are no more breeding programs going on here, either.


We have different experiences, but as long as we all share them, the truth--a probable mix of all experiences, will be clear to others. By the way, Nancy, the federation you know does not represent ALL aliens.


The Union represents ALL of the alien races visiting Earth now. No race visiting Earth is independent any longer. All work within its guidelines and under its protection.


The universe is so much larger than that, that it should be obvious.


True. The Universe is larger. The races visiting Earth are all advanced, and from nearby in our own galaxy, most from our own arm Orion. The Union of our part of space is of five galaxies, a mere fraction of this Universe. All galaxies are formed into Unions of near galaxies. All galaxies are networked into a larger collective to share information between them. All Universes are also networked between the most advanced races. Only the most primitive races are excluded from mature participation in their Union area yet, like us.

The longest evolved race that visits Earth is over 6 billion years. The longest evolved race in our Union is 16 billion years.


True, a larger sharing of all alien governments' info comprises a kind of community, but think for a moment: a hundred billion galaxies, maybe 1/10 of which are large spirals or ellipticals/lenticulars. Multiply those billions by tens of trillions, and you see that the gray-related federation is but a tiny, tiny fraction of the whole. Indeed, we live out on the (out in the woods) fringes of a relatively small supercluster of galaxies--Virgo, just 2000 galaxies. The federation, at most, would represent, the dominant populations of but a few galaxies, at most, plus some scattered other planets. The Horologium supercluster, some hundreds of millions of light years off is 10,000 galaxies or more and it is the standard, large sized supercluster.


The Greys are one race that visits Earth. They are the newest, latest members to the organization of 218 races that visit Earth. "The Federation" is not named after The Greys in any way.


So, a small federation of but a few galaxies isn't all the aliens out there. Instead, it would be 1/10,000,000,000 th of the total visible galactic populations. Then, add to that aliens who came, conceivably during previous universe cycles and may be able to obscure themselves yet exist in large numbers, and the federation isn't the main act, frankly. That's one ten billionth of the total VISIBLE likely aliens. Your assertion that they are all the aliens is like a future human on this planet of ten billion saying he/she is all the humans that live. It isn't a scientific estimate.


Like I said a hundred times and I will say again, all the races that visit Earth are from nearby in our own galaxy. They all work under the larger collective of "The Intergalactic Union" which is networked with all other Unions, which is networked with other Universes. Advanced races work together to secure the foundation of all newer up and coming races in an area. This is to ensure peace between our worlds.


That larger diversity will work to our betterment, in the future. There are certainly alternatives. I, along with others, am well acquainted with some such alternative aliens, many of whom are BILLIONS of years more advanced than the most advanced species of federation aliens. Of course, to be fair, federation aliens will try to say that they have interacted with more advanced aliens. They may even try to model themselves, loosely, in similar terms, but let's be honest. They aren't that advanced.


Your manners and your information do not suggest you have personal experiences with advanced races, or anything of the sort. Your basic knowledge of the structure of the network between races is more like that of what mere humans on Earth experience between countries within their own world structure.


Science, data, numerous observations and analysis will give us the best picture. Sure, you like those aliens. I remember when I first encountered them, too. I was literally awed. Later, I encountered others, who helped me develop a much larger context for an analysis.


If you had actually encountered the most advanced alien races visiting Earth, or any races visiting Earth, you would not encounter any others to the contrary of the organization.

You speak well, but you still give yourself away. You sound remarkably like a government agent posing as an experiencer. You are invested in your book, but you are transparent to those of us who really know the aliens.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 04:22 AM
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Well, while i'm thinking about it. What does everyone think of kesara? They say many of her pictures are true representations of aliens. And from a credible stand point, many adbuctees say her alien drawings are exactly what they encountered.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by malakiem
Well, while i'm thinking about it. What does everyone think of kesara? They say many of her pictures are true representations of aliens. And from a credible stand point, many adbuctees say her alien drawings are exactly what they encountered.


malakeim

I looked, and it seems like just a compilation of reports with no filter to determine what is real and not real.

Some reports may be true, but considering the sources, many are probably fabricated both on purpose and by mistake.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
The common idea is that all ETs are either hostile or they could care less about us.

[edit on 29-1-2005 by Umbrax]
`

yes common, and the most stupid idea.With advancement of knowledge come also the responsibillity which comes with it.
Evolution of science is never a 1 part evolution, it comes on several fronts like knowledge and spirituality and wisdom.

Because we humans are in the begine fase of this evolution we still interpret unknown things with fear, we fear the unknown.

And to be honest aliens havent give impression that they are hostile, the media has with the stupid hollywood films.

In other words most humans are too stupid,naive or ignorant, to really objectively interprete the alien subject for what its really worth.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 02:32 AM
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I too, support the race here that humans call The Greys. They are a fine race, and past differences are just that- past, and no longer happening and never will. It may be your perception from all the junk you have read that Boylan completely disregards the negative elements surrounding The Greys. I don't know what he says. I do know that The Greys are here to stay and are working within the standards set by the organization now. It seems to me that you are determined to make a whole picture out of too few pieces, most of which are planted easily within your reach for diabolical reasons, and not by any visiting race.


Hi Earthsister,

Well, the names I listed are 'experiencers' like yourself and like yourself they tend to soften or downplay other material to the extend it sounds completely unreliable while they themselves hold the truth.It happens more then you think and as I mentioned before it's ultimately confusing and hampering progress simply because these people are going to bump into eachother with their information and cause friction.
As for your own experiences, I don't know for sure if it's real or how far you're correct in certain matters.Since I don't know I'm going to stay 'centered' for now, take on a more neutral position.Yet I also have to mention that having done a lot of research, I'm not going to throw that away just because you say otherwise.Simply put, I'm not going to take your word for it.What I will do is compare the information you present with information that is out there and look for consistencies or discrepancies.
Funny that you should mention that the Greys are here to stay.Years ago I got the impression that they are not 'going anywhere'.Besides, if you create hybrids with the dna building blocks for Earth, where would they mostlikely go? Right, Earth.In fact it's theoretically possible the hybrids would be introduced to Earth and we the Cro-Magnons follow the way of the Neanderthals.If that were to happen I wonder if the Greys would ask for permission to do that.



From my own experience, I can tell you that The Greys were not abducting all of their alien contacts, and that most of the humans who were working with them on their hybrid program were willing "though on a higher level" which in itself poses a problem for humanity's view of alien contact and what constitutes taking advantage of us. Hybrid programs are also not allowed under the Union because there are other, more appropriate and advanced ways to share genetics with a desperate race.There are absolutely no more abductions of any humans going on by any alien race at Earth. It is not allowed, and not possible any longer. All of the races here are working together under one guidance and assitance for one same goal. The races who could not join the organization are no longer visiting Earth. If you can't believe that, at least take a view of it upon what you are considering and see what it all looks like that way, because it will help you see for yourself who making claims is honest and who is dishonest, either by accident or on purpose.


Yeah, the 'Soul Agreement' sounds nice but on the other hand can be cheap excuse for abduction, we also have no way confirming such an agreement so it must remain speculative at best for now.
The abductions seems to have slowed down the recent years and not many stories surface.It could be that the abductions stopped.Still if more stories would surface again then your statement that 'there are absolutely no more abductions' will be utterly incorrect.You also seem to have a "let by-gones be by-gones" attitude on the abductions.Really ES, some people will carry the traumas caused by abductions for the rest of their lives.I'm afraid the Greys are not getting so easily of the hook.
The fact remains that instead of taking people against their will, they could have contacted a person and consciously ask permission to use their biological material.They did no such thing.Some women even reported having their unborn child removed and later be shown the hybrid child.This process reduces the woman-abductee to nothing more then a biological incubator and is basicly highly disrespectful to put it mildly.
You have your work cut out for you EarthSister.I'm also afraid that your word that everything is 'good' now wont cut it.Just because you have enlightend contact doesn't mean that everyone else had it.If you really want to make amends, then I suggest that you relay to your friends that they apologize for their actions, not to me, not to the world, but to the people they abducted and hurt.



Like I said, The Greys are a fine race and here to stay. They are no longer conducting a hybrid program, and their personal contact with their related humans is above-board.
The name "The Greys" was coined by humans and derogatively connotated. Their appropriate name for humans to use is The Ancient Ones.


Really, I saw an author use a word once for the Greys which can apply just as easily.

The Uninvited.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 04:02 AM
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Earth sister

One does not mean to be a sceptic but you do know there are many others claiming to be what you are.Many who claim to be in contact with extra-terrestrials(some are members),yet most say totally different about the greys and other extraterrestrials.

Many say there is no Union,while others say there is but its just our galaxy.Clearly what im trying to say here is that I`v come across many so-called``abductees``telling us mixed information.How do you hope to achieve spreading what you claim is the truth when there are others just like you trying to spread other different ``truths``.Surely your intentions are to spread your claim to many others,if not,whats the use of contact?

I stay verymuch to the left.Don`t get me wrong,you seem like a good willed person,but one must stay everso alert of claims like these.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by TerraX

Hi Earthsister,

Well, the names I listed are 'experiencers' like yourself and like yourself they tend to soften or downplay other material to the extend it sounds completely unreliable while they themselves hold the truth.It happens more then you think and as I mentioned before it's ultimately confusing and hampering progress simply because these people are going to bump into eachother with their information and cause friction.


It sounds like you think that everyone who says he is an experiencer, is. It also sounds like you think all experiencers are equally the same. They may be the same "in your eyes" but you need a larger scope- like everybody does.


As for your own experiences, I don't know for sure if it's real or how far you're correct in certain matters.Since I don't know I'm going to stay 'centered' for now, take on a more neutral position.Yet I also have to mention that having done a lot of research, I'm not going to throw that away just because you say otherwise.Simply put, I'm not going to take your word for it.What I will do is compare the information you present with information that is out there and look for consistencies or discrepancies.


The problem with comparing all information to make your own determination on the aliens, is that you undermine the truth by watering it down to the level of the majority of information, most of which is false. My best advice to you is to stay centered and hold out for your own experience to teach you what is what. There are many ways for it to come, not just directly from alien contact, although that would be best... unless of course you hold and apply the same mistrust to all life.


Funny that you should mention that the Greys are here to stay.Years ago I got the impression that they are not 'going anywhere'.Besides, if you create hybrids with the dna building blocks for Earth, where would they mostlikely go? Right, Earth.In fact it's theoretically possible the hybrids would be introduced to Earth and we the Cro-Magnons follow the way of the Neanderthals.If that were to happen I wonder if the Greys would ask for permission to do that.


The hybrids were created only for The Grey's benefit, and not at all for ours. The hybrids were never meant to inhabit Earth and can't. Their biology prevents it. (Nor can they inhabit The Grey's planet.) If anything can be done about this it will be medical/technological, and done with all parties in agreement. The hybrids are half human and belong to Earth and humanity as well as to The Greys. They have their own race now and are treated as an equal race to any other. Perhaps when we get Earth straightened out enough, they would want to visit, and maybe eventually want to live here. If they did, would you personally have a problem with that? More realistically, by the time that point ever came to pass, do you think your great great great grandchildren (or to what generation) would welcome them?


Yeah, the 'Soul Agreement' sounds nice but on the other hand can be cheap excuse for abduction, we also have no way confirming such an agreement so it must remain speculative at best for now.


The solution to this is naturally occurring as humans are becoming, through evolution and education, more "at one." This means our physical state of consciousness becoming more aware of our spiritual states of consciousness. Our natural capacity and our given opportunity for it are coming together.

What is speculative to you because you have not experienced it yet, is not speculative to others who have experienced it. We have "many many" ways of confirming such agreements, but they are not naturally, immediately available to you, and are not being made public knowledge by those on Earth who are against your knowing.

We are all spiritual beings as well as physical beings. In fact, we are more spiritual. By spirit we are older and wiser than we are by body. We have accumulated experience, knowledge and ability over the course of our spiritual lives. It is by spirit that we know our alien relatives. For those who are directly related, we are the same spirit that was previously in life with them. Our spirit is aware of all we are doing in physical states of consciousness, but our physical state is hardly at all aware of our spiritual states. That is why we get up to answer the phone before it rings without knowing why or how we do that, instead of just having the conversation via telepathy.


The abductions seems to have slowed down the recent years and not many stories surface.It could be that the abductions stopped.Still if more stories would surface again then your statement that 'there are absolutely no more abductions' will be utterly incorrect.


So all you need is another wave of proper propaganda to sway you correctly. See, that is what I mean. It's not your fault that your sources have the cards stacked against the alien races, and against your true understanding.


You also seem to have a "let by-gones be by-gones" attitude on the abductions.


I am realistic and determined to be productive against, and despite, so much global and false, negativity. It is time NOW to move forward. In fact we are very late! Consider too the needless suffering being generated by humans against humans on Earth. You're barking up the wrong tree, here. It was our own leadership that sought "abduction" agreements with The Greys, when the relationship between The Greys and their human contacts was already natural, however primitive and inappropriate.


Really ES, some people will carry the traumas caused by abductions for the rest of their lives.I'm afraid the Greys are not getting so easily of the hook.


I know. It could have been solved much sooner both for The Greys and for humans. It never had to go on so long. There were always reachable solutions being offered to all parties. It was not solved until the organization of races could finally step in to stop it.


The fact remains that instead of taking people against their will, they could have contacted a person and consciously ask permission to use their biological material.They did no such thing.


They asked whenever the humans were aware. As humans more often than not refused, the pool diminished.


Some women even reported having their unborn child removed and later be shown the hybrid child.This process reduces the woman-abductee to nothing more then a biological incubator and is basicly highly disrespectful to put it mildly.


Many of these stories are true, but many more are borrowed and embellished. A human who is aware enough and willing enough to be taken to be introduced to their offspring, are not the same woman in a state of mind of a disrespected "biological incubator."

More than that, so many professional false reports were/are generated against the alien races and mainlined through the UFO field and abductee support groups, that this caused "ANY" person who witnessed an alien craft or discovered that they have alien contact, to assume and believe that they too must be used by the evil aliens! People automatically assumed they were kidnapped and forced to have sex with aliens, and having their babies stolen. All the while, their government knew the truth and ran the show, putting these humans in harm's way and used them to blackmail the aliens with, to strong-arm advanced technologies from the aliens.

My husband and I have toured The Greys ships and met many hybrid people at various stages of development. They are very happy in their community with their families and very well taken care of and provided for, but I think they get much more emotional support from The Greys than they do from us. We are the prejudiced, hostile ones.

Jack and I offered our help, in any form that could be, to end the use of humans for The Grey's vital program. I don't know exactly what, if anything, Jack and I did to help besides we talk with many people of all parties, mostly in higher states of consciousness, but also physically. We were only two of many, many humans actively taking a role to help work this out. What it took by all is to lay down defenses and share understanding in order to overcome the problems between us. The Greys, The Hybrids, many alien experiencers- including the donating alien experiencers, and the organization of visiting races accomplished this over a period of time by working on it together. As far as I know, the Government people took no productive part to help solve it.


You have your work cut out for you EarthSister.I'm also afraid that your word that everything is 'good' now wont cut it.Just because you have enlightend contact doesn't mean that everyone else had it.If you really want to make amends, then I suggest that you relay to your friends that they apologize for their actions, not to me, not to the world, but to the people they abducted and hurt.


"Good"? Good is a relative term. Everything is getting better now because more and more humans are standing up for themselves, but we have an awful long way to go yet, don't we? Why waste time NOW laying blame and berating the past offenders when the worst offenders are still the human beings who are running our world? We just have to realize what we on Earth are all fighting for, and start doing it together.

The Greys are an upstanding race, and whatever apologies are due will be or have already been given. It is not my place to be a go-between for that. Don't forget that the other race who humans called "The Greys" never complied, and their behavior was bad enough to get themselves permanently banned from visiting Earth. The two races who were creating hybrids were only two of hundreds of races visiting, and these two were not the same race or related to each other in any way.

You have to rely more on your own experiences than on anybody else's, and study the sources of your information more carefully.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by blackSt33L
Earth sister

One does not mean to be a sceptic but you do know there are many others claiming to be what you are.Many who claim to be in contact with extra-terrestrials(some are members),yet most say totally different about the greys and other extraterrestrials.

Many say there is no Union,while others say there is but its just our galaxy.Clearly what im trying to say here is that I`v come across many so-called``abductees``telling us mixed information.How do you hope to achieve spreading what you claim is the truth when there are others just like you trying to spread other different ``truths``.Surely your intentions are to spread your claim to many others,if not,whats the use of contact?

I stay verymuch to the left.Don`t get me wrong,you seem like a good willed person,but one must stay everso alert of claims like these.


blackSt33L

I understand your position. I think that the best possible way people come to find out that something they have heard and considered at some past time is true and real for them, is they experience it for themselves. Otherwise, it happens when at some later time, it it all comes out in the wash for everybody to see.

If you don't experience it yourself, don't worry, because it's all going to come out in the wash. Don't settle early. Hold out for one or the other.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Earth Sister,

After reading this thread and good deal of your web page, I wanted to pop in and say hi as well as ask a few questions of you. Please take no offense by anything I post.

I wanted to start off by saying that your understandings, as personally revealed to you do come with an "air" of truth or at the very least, a confidence in your words.

I wanted to say that, as my heart truly does believe you are speaking from your inner self, and it's not a guise.

Don't mistake that for meaning that my brain or my logic structure(s) are in unison with my heart. They are much more skeptical. Again, take no offense to this.

With that out of the way, my questions:

1. How long, by your understanding, has this council been visiting the planet known as "Earth" in any manner? To what degree have they directly interacted with the general population of "Earth", and how much interaction was originally directed at just the governments of the population?

2. Is there a common or underlying belief system found amongst the various races that make up the council? What are some of the main points to the belief system(s) you are familiar with? Does that in any way relate to any of the various belief systems found here on "Earth"? I am far from a spiritual person by most common terms, but I will recognize how vital these belief systems are to the progress of cultures and entire civilizations. I state that so you know the motive of my interest.

3. It would seem to me that most of the time your apparent contact comes to you in a rather non-physical manner. That is to say that your consciousness is "taken" aboard alien ships and to visit alien lands. Is this due to any particular reason? I can understand the magnitude of logistics required for multiple biological entities to meet in a common, physical space. What I want to know is what are the other reasons for a lack of physical interaction?

4. Since you are advised by your contacts to never keep any uncontestable evidence of their existence, for protection from current government, how do you personally validate your experiences?

5. How can you truly be sure that your experiences are real? Furthermore, if you can truly be certain that they are really taking place, how can you be certain that what is being presented to you is, indeed the "truth". The "Truth" heh, I know that's really a loose term at best. But what I'm getting at is: How are you sure that these entities are not furthering an agenda which you are kept wholly unaware of? How are you certain the entities themselves are not a construct of a local (to "earth) government that is trying to steer civilization for their own reasons?

6. What do you feel is to come for the human civilization in the next 6-10 years? 50? 100? 1,000? No need to get too technical here, just general thoughts from your view.

7. If these contacts do in fact view current forms of government as adversarial towards their citizens, why do they allow it to continue? In my view of ultimate logic, it would seem that the alien race would choose to break all bonds upon the citizenry, and then provide them with a choice in the interests of free will and basic universal rights. Unless, of course, they wish for the citizens to first decide to break their own bonds, which is logical. But not practical when most citizens don't realize the bonds are there. Is it? I ponder this greatly in relation to your thoughts and experiences.

I wanted to thank you for your time. Please get back to me via this post or U2U. I also wanted to let you know that what I ask is for my own personal research. It doesn't directly deal with your situation, but everything ties together in the end
.

Thank you.

P.S. I wanted to state that I quite agree with your assertion that the member named "gl2" does seem to harbor some form of an agenda. His information, while really finely manicured, it seems coaxed or at the very least, sensationalized. Far be it from me to say which of you supports truth, but I did detect something strange about gl2's motivation to post. No offense meant to you either gl2, I just felt your words gave hint to something else you're after.

Thanks again.


gl2

posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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Aliens can intervene with “an invitation” from whom, Nancy M.? You seem to admit that the abductions are an intervention, but a semi-hypnotic, slightly awed “maybe” or “yes but” from the typical abductee, immobilized during a first encounter in a context that he/she can’t possibly understand, isn’t permission.

Numerous well-reasoned sources of many different types, official/friendly contacts/and even aliens of the gray-federation say that the gray world died due to an environmental crisis. Those reports list and describe their sources, but do you? Who and how were your sources, specifically? You should explain both the character and the context of your information so that others can assess them.

The most famous of all aliens, the grays, are reportedly from another galaxy, the Large Magellenic Cloud. Phillip Krapf reports direct, fully conscious reports by a weighty, well-organized official party onboard the Verdants’ large cruiser in which this was stated clearly, directly. Indeed, numerous other human dignitaries are reported as witness, onboard, to the Verdants. That kind of detail both corroborates other reports (it’s consistent with the larger pattern we see), and tends to rate higher than one or another given alien’s remarks.

During one interaction, with numerous other humans monitoring, an advanced, non-federation alien showed us an explicit map of the distribution, here in our vicinity, of the Verdant network—direct Verdant takings. It centers on a galaxy in the Centaurus A galaxy group, where the Verdants were reported, by the given alien (and his associates), to live. It is, at best, heavy along the edges of two other galaxies, and is peppered out loosely into six galaxy groups, all of them small groups like our own. But Verdants do not dominate numerous galaxies. Instead, there are others. Our own galaxy group has the Milky Way at one end, spirals Andromeda and M-33 at the other, plus about two dozen small ellipticals and the Magellenic Clouds. Look at this site: www.anzwers.org... to see just where we are in our galaxy neighborhood. It’s a fantastic site where you can zoom in and out, all the way out to “full” universe level.

In short, the grays, themselves, are from a different galaxy, so your sources are either shading the truth, or giving you a partial story. Maybe some grays now live in this galaxy, but their origins aren’t here. If those who you speak to say otherwise, it may be due to the fact that, not being native to this galaxy, and competing for habitable planet space with non-federation aliens, here, they are heavily “invested” in their story. They may not want to tell all to humans at this early stage of awareness. It is highly political, both here and out there, Nancy.

By the way, I am not “invested” in my book. It will be given away free on the web, no profit. In fact, it takes away from my other work and I will use a pseudonym or but a fraction of my name, which isn’t gl2. And I have no governmental role, whatsoever. In fact, I am one of the more independent free-lance critics of our government on the web, writing with various pen-names to avoid regime identification. Even if my name were known, I wouldn’t worry too much. They have nothing on me. I’m a citizen of the world before I’m a citizen of this country. We all are, but the drumbeat of narco money and war propaganda tries to intimidate us into thinking otherwise. It’s all in the head: once we all think as citizens of the world, we become such, forever.

Sure, you have experiences, and some may be advanced. Your 6 billion and 16 billion year numbers sound reasonable. They may be correct, but there are other aliens more advanced who don’t choose to appear, physically. They don’t need to. Indeed, once they are some billion or more years beyond us, they can easily elude direct, physical detection. They can ghost less advanced aliens and steer interactions, if they feel a need to. Your Union may be the larger universal community, but there are differences between alien groupings, and highly informed, advanced aliens feel free to give us a basic taste of the larger picture—in order that we be responsible.

In a sense, we are all unified, all interconnected. In that sense, assertions of physical species and “territory” are strangely uneducated and pretentious. We’re all interdependent, like you say. The lower you go, the more pretentious is the specimen, the more fear is the mode of control. But don’t your gray aliens propagate quite a bit of that fear? Apocalypse, the need to silence officials, they almost never criticize their own government.

The native American view of nature is much like that of aliens: a larger communication with nature, a sentience in the seemingly non-animate. But aliens are highly scientific, studied--they do experiments. They have highly literate critiques, they know other peoples’ histories and they are extraordinarily technological. Their interactions can, at times, blend into a vastly larger consciousness, an almost musical, haunting universal quality. Sometimes, when I listen to music, I make up 3-5 new parts in my head to accompany a song I’m hearing (driving at night). I tend to pull music out of electronic qualities, sometimes out of sounds in the environment, plus strange womens’ vocal echoes and resonance. When I reduce the music to bass and drum with a tighter, driving edge, unusually advanced aliens, who clearly love music, will expand the entire space and say that it needs the voice of the suffering, the needy and deprived of this planet. Then the music opens up into an entire global space and those very deprived come in with haunting, yet beautiful resonance—it’s the best direction of the music. You can’t go there without feeling it, yet some, here prefer feel-good music, melodies only.

I’m not going to suggest that you know no advanced aliens. You likely do, but if those that you know try to reduce the entire universe to melodic, totally harmonious single strains of one alien government only, they aren’t telling you numerous details—probably because they either think you aren’t ready for that, or they don’t see you probing into their controversies. There are different alien governments, there are vast dramas and cases of corruption, of a sort. Aliens know that. Indeed, part of the entire drama of the death of the original gray aliens’ planet is a vital learning example for us, here, now. They violated their own ecology and their story is seen as one that we must learn from, distressing as that may be, at times.


[edit on 13-2-2005 by gl2]


gl2

posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 01:01 AM
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What else, Xatnys? If anything, I understate what transpires. But, please, offer your opinion. Nothing to fear from me. In critiquing the behaviors described by various others on this same thread, I'm simply describing them and placing them in a larger context. To bring such issues into the open and to try and compel basic, legal respect for all humans is part of my intention. I'd say the same regarding any government.

And Nancy, I appreciate your love for kind, your deeply felt need to tell the world that there is so much more out there, that we need to heed alien messages about ruining this planet. I find some grays very likable. I know some of them better than you might think. In my book I place grays higher than the Verdants, in term of their consciousness, because they aren't manipulative, territorial sexuals (like the Verdants, who are a less stinky version than the prevailing human strain)--instead, it seems as though the grays are tasked to do the abductions, instructed to do so as part of their federation duties, in a sense. I sense a sympathy, a resonance among them in this regard. I know exactly how you feel about those aliens who have taken their time to help advance your thinking and awareness. I felt EXACTLY as you do, at one time. Then, other aliens entered in and suggested that it was okay to argue against offensive aspects. Previously, I was regularly, routinely pressured subtly to feel as though highlighting the legal problems with abductions was superfluous, given the epochal evolutionary changes wrought by off-world interactions, otherworldly technologies and higher intelligence.

Compared to the brute, superficial ugliness of archaic human conventions (not putting down human love, friendship, caring, artistic passion, etc., of course--just the worst old-line offenders of the greedy, manipulative sort), the grays and all other aliens seemed hopeful. The more I read about abductions, the more basic issues of reproductive rights and "agendas" arose, frankly. I've disputed with Verdants, rarely with grays (they're too subtle and open-minded, indeed an aggrieved people, themselves), but must say that Verdants are more subtle and more broad minded that most humans. Nonetheless, there is the case of their expansionism and more.

At times, some highly advanced other aliens remind me that you can't completely close the door on any aliens because the universe is ALL aliens, and we will certainly have responsibilities re such aliens in the future. We will have to bring them into accord with surrounding systems. The larger ecology requires that we work with all of them. But for humans at this juncture, it seems we need more spine to say no, we aren't under your jurisdiction. Indeed, you aren't even native to this galaxy, which raises certain questions.

Enough of that, for now. My point is that I completely understand your feelings. There is an urgency that all experiencers feel, a need to talk about the alternatives that ALL aliens pose and often embody. Telepathy is much better, violence is not necessary. Knowledge is more important, open, shared truth. But do all aliens give truth, or do some filter it or even deceive? I don't argue the case for any given alien group; I'm not their spokesperson. They must demonstrate their good behavior. So, I can critique any and all of them, which should be the norm. In academic, cultural, scientific and other doings, this is necessary to get feedback and improve, to listen for a souding of errors; to inform other humans. It isn't intended to demolish or invalidate the (presumably non-criminal) human being critiqued.

And yet your main concern is the love that they seem to impart, the larger social identity that they embody. When your husband shares your experiences, it's as though you two are living an extraordinarily special life that you want others to see and know. How much better, it seems, the world would be if we had open relations with aliens. But be careful when you dismiss the negative experiences of certain others, manipulations that you seem to have avoided. Forced, blacked out reproductive invasion isn't taken lightly by the law of any people. We both know, of course, that many other alien groups abduct and copy other aliens' individuals to create easier intermediaries, etc. It's more common that many would know.

But can we simply ignore such mass-scale doings here? They aren't minor, isolated exceptions. Anyway, back to your positive experiences. Maybe some of your best work would be to get your contacts to be more open, to address the criticisms, to download their best, most honest response to your computer--with touches of insight to prove that it is they, not a human, making the statement. Maybe we need to get them to come clean about origins, past doings, and intentions here.

[edit on 14-2-2005 by gl2]

[edit on 14-2-2005 by gl2]

[edit on 14-2-2005 by gl2]

[edit on 14-2-2005 by gl2]

[edit on 14-2-2005 by gl2]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 10:26 AM
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gl2

You buzz quite a trail, leading the curious but unknowing deeper into the UFO field of obscurity, and far away from learning any truth about the alien races. You tell a lousy hodgepodge of an alien story, but you stand tall as a textbook example of the government agent debunker. Of course you have many names.

Everything you say and claim is either borrowed from those like me, or fabricated by your organization. You twist the truth and then sandwich it between your fabrications in order to lend incredibility to it as a whole in the fashion you display it up front publicly. This is a classic, age-old tactic, and easily recognized by those who know the alien races, but also by all those who think wisely and pay attention to the structure of your writings.

After your organization gets a lot of people to fall for your stories, you can then be debunked in order to show all the poor people how foolish they are, further to your goal of discrediting our visiting races and their human contacts. Then just change your name and do it again.

Another one of the ways you give yourself away is even punier, by taking what I say and twisting it into something else as you repeat it for other members to read, then embellishing that to declare that I meant something entirely different. The members of ATS who follow our whole conversation can see this plainly also, regardless of any of their personal belief or disbelief in any of the material.

Another way you telegraph your intentions is in how you undermine the quality of my work with alien life at the same time you make it a target for your own work. If any of your claims of personal contact and knowledge were true, you would only tell the truth, and recognize and support the alien races and others who have contact. This shows how sneaky you are. You can't fool me because I already know. You can only fool some of the others watching on- those who know the aliens are real, but don't know what is true about them. They are your real intended targets.

You are not smart-- you are cunning, and only at about lukewarm for a professional. You must be new. You don't share a fellowship of information except with others who are doing what you do. You deliberately discredit the truth in order to sell your own product instead, which is confusion. You are too kind to those you are debunking, and you talk way too much. You make too many personal claims, and all contrary. You are transparent to anybody who looks underneath your vocabulary, grammar and sentence structure.

You say you are not making any money on your book. But you are certainly, obviously well paid by those you work for, who are not the victims of your book. You are too self-important and proud to be doing all this work for a casual pastime.

Of all the mud in the waters, you are the "worst" kind. You should be ashamed of yourself, whoever you are.

There are other obvious tactics you use, plain for all to see. Leave your posts alone as they are to allow any ATS members who want to learn about the subject of "Government Debunking" print them out and take their time going over them. I highly recommend this to all serious ATS members as a timely gift of opportunity because it's an easy study this time.

[edit on 14-2-2005 by EarthSister]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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Umm, what was it again that I warned other contributors on this board off? Oh yeah, now I remember.If you go about claiming how everybody else is incorrect and how your own person is correct in every way, you're gonna bump into the next person (who sometimes does the same).Think I mentioned this in one of earliest posts, yeah...



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by Xatnys

Earth Sister,

After reading this thread and good deal of your web page, I wanted to pop in and say hi as well as ask a few questions of you....


Hi, Xatnys

Very good questions, thank you. I am working on them as time allows.



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by TerraX
Umm, what was it again that I warned other contributors on this board off? Oh yeah, now I remember.If you go about claiming how everybody else is incorrect and how your own person is correct in every way, you're gonna bump into the next person (who sometimes does the same).Think I mentioned this in one of earliest posts, yeah...


TerraX

Tell me honestly, do you see any difference at all between those who are as completely sincere and as open with it to others as possible, and those who are completely fabricating their stories for a diabolical end? Or are we all the same to you?


gl2

posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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Earth Sister, Your suspicion and reaction is undignified. I'm not government connected in any way. I "talk too much?" The irony in such a remark is that, in fact, you've fallen for a government ploy--but the problem in your case is, it isn't even a human government.

So, who's the government mouthpiece in this minor tiff? You are, literally. Your reluctance to even question your contacts, your inability to realize that others have been grotesquely violated is what their government wants you to do. Aliens have governments, and you are toeing the line of their official policy. Not only do they not want embarrassments, they are willing to sexually assault children, kidnap others, and probably worse to keep their intentions hidden.

You make charges without a shred of evidence. The transparency, the highly personal anger, if not hatred, in your spurious claims against me suggest that at least some of your conclusions about 218 races and all alien visitors coming from this galaxy may be similarly quick to judge, partly personal. You believe what they tell you, but don't investigate. I won't even suggest what others, here, think (all on this board). I truly don't know, nor do you. You need to realize that, at this very early stage in human-alien relations, no one has all the answers. Yet you assert that your story is definitive. There are many who are skeptical that the federation aliens are going to "save" us. Look at what happened to the gray planet.

I don't spook around with pen names, only in a case where murders of witnesses and worse have haunted those who do public exposes of a given subject (not this one--I use my name in writing about aliens). I did graduate study in history and have written for newspapers, at times. I know how to present evidence, not my opinions, to separate them and make the basis for any assertions clear.

You shouldn't write a post when you're angry.

To return this discussion to a level that is neither personal, nor vindictive (which is the case in all public forums), you state the following: "The hybrids are half human and belong to Earth and humanity as well as to The Greys. They have their own race now and are treated as an equal race to any other. Perhaps when we get Earth straightened out enough, they would want to visit, and maybe eventually want to live here. If they did, would you personally have a problem with that?"

It isn't personal, E.S. When a colonizing alien group FROM ANOTHER GALAXY dunders in and kidnaps, creates hybrids--some of whom are certainly living here, and seems to want to gain advantage, if not control here, the question is WHY? It isn't simply spiritual. We, who are leery of giving up independence to a manipulative, deceptive colonial, don't necessarily wish harm to those hybrids who already live here. We may all have various alien genetic aspects, due to manipulations over time. But just imagine how convincing your words are to the other 9,999 out of 10,000 aliens in this galaxy, nearly all of whom are not gray-federation. Colonialism is oppression. Informed, elective choice is a better alternative. Listen to Sgt. Clifford Stone: gray aliens in black budget installations. That's the worst kind of government deception, all of it done behind our backs. We're lucky to even get the story at this late date. Stone helped a gray escape, but he doesn't support the federation scheme here.

Those who lack evidence to make a certain case often stoop to attacks on the personal character of others. It doesn't make you look good to behave in such a way. Like Richard Boylan, you're losing it. All who disagree are government spies, or racist xenophobes (one of my children was taken: at age 4 he told me a vividly accurate story about how he was taken in a dream, then I found a small, perfectly round scoop mark on the sole of his bare foot. It wasn't there before.)

[edit on 14-2-2005 by gl2]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 03:39 PM
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gl2

That's all what I thought you were going to say back to me.

You have no knowledge of the alien races. You've made it all up and written it in a book, and now you have to stand by it and attack those who could discredit you. I won't argue the fine points because that is a waste of my time. I don't care what you say; none of it is of any value. It is pure propaganda.

Almost everything you say is proof again to me that you are completely lying, and I am not going to pretend to go along with it. Go talk to somebody who will believe you. You're not fooling me one bit.



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 03:49 PM
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Hello All! It has been a while since I have been around, but I had to put my 2 cents in concerning Earthsister. As I read some of your responses accusing Earthsister of an agenda, I sit amazed. Although I have never met she or her husband, my wife and I have been in contact via e-mail and have found her to be most sincere, caring, concerned and informative. She has helped us to understand our own experiences and we have found truth in all that she has shared. It amazes me that people have a need to accuse her of an agenda on this board. I can assure you, she has never asked for anything and has always given of her time and energy freely. I suggest that those of you who can understand, listen to what she has to say. She has a wealth of experience and information...and she and her husband always give freely and without expectation. I can't say that about most people on this board. Thanks Earthsister!



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