Putin on those NATO bases he dislikes so much

originally posted by: TheAlleghenyGentleman
a reply to: 727Sky

Putin is a war criminal not a class act.

This ATS love for him is sickening.

Do you not remember when he invaded Ukraine?

Seriously?

The west backed an illegal forced regime change in Ukraine. Something they seem to do alot. Russia’s went into Ukraine because of the collapse of Ukraine’s sovereignty after western backed coup.

Its the west thst is hell bent on a war with russia. Even going as far as blaming russia for the email hacks, even though they wont show this "evidence"

The west is the real problem in the world. Illegally invading countries and killing innocent people and giving rise to the terrorists we see today.

And you have the nerve to call putin the real danger! You carry on watching the fake news and believing the west is saving the world!

a reply to: Jay-morris

There was no coup and no amount of Kremlin lies can change that fact.

The Rada, which was voted into office the preceding December before Yanukovych went all Lenin on his people, whose election was recognized and accepted by the international community, including Russia, lawfully removed him from office when he fled the country.

The Rada, including the bulk of Yanukovych's own party, held the 1st vote of impeachment, which passed. Yanukovych fled before the second vote to remove him could be held.

Putin sent in the Russian Army before any sham election for Crimea to join Russia ever occurred, meaning they invaded sovereign Ukraine territory. Putin had plans to take Crimea, according to himself, before Yanukovych left power and before the issue arose. It would not surprise me if Putin were behind the turmoil in order to justify his invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory. Even Yanukovych himself, from russia, said Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Ironically after that statement he stopped being covered by Russian media.

Get your facts right.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: markosity1973


NATO kept out of Poland and the Baltic nations up until russia invaded ukraine. Putins actions created they very NATO response he bitches about. He is to stupid to understand that fact.

Sooooo, you are saying that Russia invaded Ukraine in 2002?

Cos that is when the Baltic states applied to join NATO. They became members in 2004.

Kinda predates Ukraine somewhat.

IN FACT, the only two nations to become NATO members in the last decade are Albania and Croatia (2009) - Again pre Ukraine. Ukraine wanted to become a NATO member too, but by then Putin had had enough.

Member states of NATO

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Jay-morris

There was no coup and no amount of Kremlin lies can change that fact.

The Rada, which was voted into office the preceding December before Yanukovych went all Lenin on his people, whose election was recognized and accepted by the international community, including Russia, lawfully removed him from office when he fled the country.

The Rada, including the bulk of Yanukovych's own party, held the 1st vote of impeachment, which passed. Yanukovych fled before the second vote to remove him could be held.

Putin sent in the Russian Army before any sham election for Crimea to join Russia ever occurred, meaning they invaded sovereign Ukraine territory. Putin had plans to take Crimea, according to himself, before Yanukovych left power and before the issue arose. It would not surprise me if Putin were behind the turmoil in order to justify his invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory. Even Yanukovych himself, from russia, said Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Ironically after that statement he stopped being covered by Russian media.

Get your facts right.

So, you are saying this had nothing to do with the west. Its not like the west has not done this before, and that you cannot deny.

Here is a good honest READ

a reply to: Jay-morris

An even better read.. Maybe you should research your sources before trotting them out to support a failed point.

Seumas Milne

Secondly you should re-read my post and understand what it is i'm saying before asking a question that's been answered as well as debunked. Ukraine was going to sign an agreement with the EU and at the last minute Yanukovych yanked the carpet out from underneath everyone and gave in to Russian threats, resulting in the end of his Presidency.

During the negotiations between Ukraine and the EU Russia got involved and demanded thousands of exemptions stating Russian goods could not compete with their EU counterparts. The Russian demands eventually got so ridiculous the EU walked out of the Russian meetings.

Russia is afraid to live in the 21st century and is incapable of competing while keeping a death grip on their failed economic models of the 1980's.

a reply to: TheAlleghenyGentleman
The CIA infiltrated the Ukraine,what MSM showed was far from the truth,CNN got caught trying to coach young girl from Ukraine,as far as leadership he is a great leader,can't take that from him,you can voice your opinion but doesn't tarnish facts

a reply to: Oldtimer2

Your entitled to your opinion but not your own set of facts.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Even Russia acknowledges the current Ukrainian government as legitimate. That kind of blows your whole claim about an illegal regime change apart.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Jay-morris

An even better read.. Maybe you should research your sources before trotting them out to support a failed point.

Seumas Milne

Secondly you should re-read my post and understand what it is i'm saying before asking a question that's been answered as well as debunked. Ukraine was going to sign an agreement with the EU and at the last minute Yanukovych yanked the carpet out from underneath everyone and gave in to Russian threats, resulting in the end of his Presidency.

During the negotiations between Ukraine and the EU Russia got involved and demanded thousands of exemptions stating Russian goods could not compete with their EU counterparts. The Russian demands eventually got so ridiculous the EU walked out of the Russian meetings.

Russia is afraid to live in the 21st century and is incapable of competing while keeping a death grip on their failed economic models of the 1980's.

Sorry, your link proves nothing at all. Its obvious that the west had a hand in this, the evidence is there for all to see.

But, like most of the terrible things the west has done ( libya being a great example) people refuse to see it.

I am not saying russia is innocent, but claiming the west did not have a hand in this for their own agenda is complete ignorance!

a reply to: Jay-morris

actually it discredits your source. Had you read it you would know that but you apparently choose to ignore anything that doesnt support the Russian lie.

and you are trying to absolve Putin of his actions, contrary to what you are trying to claim. It was Russia that invaded Ukraine.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Jay-morris

actually it discredits your source. Had you read it you would know that but you apparently choose to ignore anything that doesnt support the Russian lie.

and you are trying to absolve Putin of his actions, contrary to what you are trying to claim. It was Russia that invaded Ukraine.

Plese, tell me how it discredits the source? Because of his views? So all he said was bs, is that what you are saying. Or is it bs because it goes against your beliefs?

a reply to: Jay-morris

Look up the word bias and get back to me.

Fact - Russia, not the west, invaded and currently illegally occupies Ukrainian territory.

a reply to: Xcathdra

That's not true. There was a referendum in Crimea, where the people had spoken and decided to be a part of Russia. The same thing happened in Kosovo, but the US and most of the western countries rushed in to recognize that decision, but they have a problem with people of Crimea doing the same thing. Well, f#ck double standards that you're trying to push here.

Crimea is a part of Russia now, so I don't know what do you mean when you say that Russia is occupying something, when that's simply not true.

a reply to: Nikola014

The "referendum" occurred after russian forces seized Crimea, making the referendum invalid under international law.

Crimea is illegally occupied by Russia and is not recognized by any countries that matter:
Afghanistan[29]
Cuba[40]
Kyrgyzstan[41]
Nicaragua[32]
North Korea[42]
Russia[28]
Syria[29]
Venezuela[29]

When you send in your military into a foreign country uninvited with the goal of seizing territory before any sham referendum its an invasion.

a reply to: Nikola014

Kosovo's declaration of independence came through a legitimate parliamentary vote. Crimea's annexation came at the barrel of a gun from an invading force. And let's not forget that despite the reported results, Russia's own Human Rights Council said that only 15% of the population voted in favor of the referendum.

On top of that 110 UN members acknowledge the independence of Kosovo, as well as the ICJ. The annexation of Crimea on the other hand is recognized by 8 UN members, including such freedom loving countries as Iran and North Korea. Not even Russia's ally China recognizes the annexation.

Plus, Russia does not recognize the independence of Kosovo. So if Kosovo is illegitimate then doesn't that mean that Russia should consider the annexation of Crimea illegal?

a reply to: Xcathdra

As proven many times before, the international law is not valid and is not respected by any of the major superpowers, so your point is useless. We can pretend like it means something, but I think we both know it's pure BS.

@Xcalibur

What happened with Kosovo is another violation of international law. There was never a referendum on Kosovo to begin with, and if one country is not a federation, then it's impossible for a region of a country to declare it's independence, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

So, if you have no problem recognizing Kosovo as an independent state, even though there was never a referendum held there, I'm not sure why don't you do the same with Crimea, and show that you apply the same standard to everyone.

What Russia did is illegal, but what the west did with Kosovo is also illegal. So, let's drop the act and our talk about the international law like it's something valid, when it's not. Kosovo is independent unfortunately, and Crimea is part of Russia now. Like it or not, it's the reality

a reply to: Nikola014

Then Russia's occupation of Crimea and eastern Ukraine is illegal and invalid. By the way Russia has used the international law argument to justify their actions in Ukraine.

Also since you apparently are unaware Kosovo and Serbia recognize each other and have diplomatic relations. So no what occurred in Kosovo and Serbia is not illegal.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I agree that it is, my point is to show yet another western hypocrisy and double standard politics. We can do whatever we like, but you(Russia) can't do it...give me a break

Plus, I don't see a possibility of Crimea rejoining Ukraine, as it holds no historic value to the Ukrainian people.

Serbia did not recognize Kosovo and won't ever do such a thing. And what the west did to Kosovo is illegal and nothing will change that fact.

a reply to: Nikola014

Its Ukrainian territory and is up to Ukraine to decide and not Russia. Secondly their is no hypocrisy since Kosovo and Serbia recognize each other and have gotten over the break up.

a reply to: Xcathdra

That's not true, and that will never happen.

My country and my people will never recognize Kosovo as an independent state. It's a holy land to my people, and you should get your facts before laying out false information