Where Are Colin Kaepernick's Critics Now

originally posted by: Spider879

the Asian American experience is the Asian American experience, the African American is the African American experience, different histories different problems.

Somehow I don't think many African Americans have had the experience that you may be referring to.

It seems that actual African Americans like Dave Matthews and Charlize Theron (both born in South Africa, and are now U.S. citizens) have had quite a different (and pleasant) experience here in the U.S..

I work and party with lots of black Americans who could probably relate, and even one Ethiopian American, but I don't know a single African American who's been pulled over for a DWB (driving while black).

I'll criticize him if you want.

a reply to: redmage

African American as self defined by us, are persons of African ancestry partially or wholly so in terms genes, cultural habits and expression shared experience.
Black is at best, vaguely describe a skin color, with no attachment to anything, New Guineans ,Solomon Islanders , Australasian even some Dravidian are self describe as Black but have nothing to do with Africa in terms of culture , history or genetics etc.

It is possible to be African and American without being "Black" but are these folks you singled out biologically Africans?? even partially?? ..I mean are these folks tropically adapted for example??

Another thing, do you see Asian Americans referring to themselves as Yellow Americans??..that sounds really really really weird just to say that out loud doesn't it.

a reply to: Spider879

We should be decades from the labels that divide us... shouldn't we all be Americans?

Who, politically continues to hammer home the labeling ?

Why do they?

The point missed by the mindless masses that follow the media: it is hypocritical irony to complain about him desecrating the memory of our soldiers service....when our soldiers service was all about defending is right to take a knee.

I don't support him other than not only is it his right....i can't fathom why anyone really cares. I only stand for the anthem when the mood strikes me, if im being honest. Typically im feeling too cynical to feel inclined.

originally posted by: JacKatMtn
a reply to: Spider879

We should be decades from the labels that divide us... shouldn't we all be Americans?

Who, politically continues to hammer home the labeling ?

Why do they?

True but we aren't there yet are we, and in this the majority community have to take point on this as it was they or people who said they represent them that created the division in the first place, we had a couple of key points in our history to fix that but didn't do it, the first was following the war of independence the second was, after the civil war , a ten years grace period that got aborted by reactionaries who implemented Jim Crow for 70 yrs, the effects still with us to date.

originally posted by: Spider879
African American as self defined by us, are persons of African ancestry partially or wholly so in terms genes, cultural habits and expression shared experience.

Through mitochondrial DNA all humans can claim "African ancestry partially or wholly". Homo Sapiens all trace back to East-Central Africa, and many black Americans who don't consider themselves "African" have a very "shared experience" in modern western society.

originally posted by: Spider879
Black is at best, vaguely describe a skin color, with no attachment to anything, New Guineans ,Solomon Islanders , Australasian even some Dravidian are self describe as Black but have nothing to do with Africa in terms of culture , history or genetics etc.

African is at best either one from South Africa, or vaguely describes a continental landmass of origin that all human's share.

originally posted by: Spider879
It is possible to be African and American without being "Black" but are these folks you singled out biologically Africans?? even partially??

Yes, biologically all Homo Sapiens trace back to East-Central Africa when you go back far enough.

originally posted by: Spider879
Another thing, you do see Asian Americans referring to themselves as Yellow Americans..that sounds really really really weird to say that out loud doesn't it.

Sounds about as weird as the misuse of "African American" to me, and nope, the standard was accepted long ago. Europeans (and some Western Asians) who have less melanin are modernly considered "white", and many who happen to have more melanin from around the world are modernly accepted as "black".

The point is that black does not equal "African" by modern standards.

I think Tree of Logic explains it beautifully!

Warning: Language

a reply to: Spider879

It's silly to me to dig up graves of the past... so I will avoid the period just after the Civil war and what happened in the south as retribution spurred on by the influx of those from the north...

Personally I find it sad.. being a minority myself, in a wonderful family that includes folks from all "so called" races....

We like to call ourselves family...

The pushed narrative designed to dredge up failures of the past, doesn't help anyone... though here in the US.. it helps a particular political party, since they cannot let it GO....

I hope they do soon.... we need true conservative vs liberal debate... GOP has been defeated, we elected a Centrist.. a Libertarian... dare I say it... what the TEA party represented...

IT's time the left did a little housekeeping as well... 2018 is time to help DRAIN the SWAMP...

Bring back a GOV"T that represents the people... not the $$$$$$

We can still disagree on policy... and it would be nice if the folks in DC responded to folks like you.. and I... not the RICH few who want us to come to blows...

YMMV

I wish someone would discriminate against me so I can live in a multimillion dollar mansion.Ah and make millions a year being a second string player.

a reply to: redmage

, or vaguely describes a continental landmass of origin that all human's share.

There is nothing vague about a land mass called Africa, it have a well defined shape with tectonic plates.
South Africa is the one that's vague, maybe they could do a name change and called it Mapungubwe the name of an ancient settlement in there, ok so it doesn't roll off my non Bantu tongue easily.

Yes, biologically all Homo Sapiens trace back to East-Central Africa when you go back far enough

Yes if one goes back far enough, but my point is Eurasians are typically cold adapted and have been so for a very longtime.

Through mitochondrial DNA all humans can claim "African ancestry partially or wholly". Homo Sapiens all trace back to East-Central Africa.

Will not argue that point, however I know that you know I am not speaking of OOA that began to diverge based on new environment they encountered on their long march.

The point is that black does not equal "African" by modern standards.

And that's my point so where is the argument, African Americans as defined by us, meant the ancestors of folks who found their way through the middle passage from Africa having a shared experience, in terms of actual color many African Americans self I'd as Black are only so in a political sense and shared cultural experience.

Self Id as Black.

Self Id as Black

Self Id as Black.

Self Id as Black or AA

originally posted by: Spider879
There is nothing vague about a land mass called Africa, it have a well defined shape with tectonic plates.

It's actually very vague in regards to nationality. Nationality is based on nation of origin, not continent of origin.

originally posted by: Spider879
South Africa is the one that's vague, maybe they could do a name change and called it Mapungubwe the name of an ancient settlement in there, ok so it doesn't roll off my non Bantu tongue easily.

South Africa is a nation with defined borders. There's nothing vague about that.

originally posted by: Spider879

The point is that black does not equal "African" by modern standards.

And that's my point so where is the argument

I suppose the argument is in the misuse of an entire continent (especially a continent where one has never lived, and where one wasn't born) to describe one's nationality. Also the fact that it's largely broad-stroked to apply to all black Americans simply based off their skin color alone, and often offensive to Jamaican Americans, Haitian Americans, etc. who have lived through a shared black American experience yet are excluded when it's mislabeled the "African American experience".

As was pointed out in Tree's video above, people born in Africa (or 1st gen. Americans whose parents were born there) don't claim the entire continent as a part of their nationality. They claim their nation of origin with pride. If you were born in the United States of America, then we're Americans, and we come in all shades and colors.

a reply to: redmage

I suppose the argument is in the misuse of an entire continent to describe one's nationality (largely broad-stroked to apply to all black Americans simply based off skin color). Especially a continent where one has never lived, and where one wasn't born. As was pointed out in Tree's video, people born in Africa (or those whose parents were born there) don't claim the entire continent as a part of their nationality. They claim their nation of origin with pride. If you were born in the United States of America, then we're Americans, and we come in all shades and colors.

The point you are missing is , African American ancestors literally came from all over the continent, from the Nile to the Niger from the Zambezi to the Senegal , from the rain forest to the desert.
But lets be real here, African American or even Black American which is interchangeable is not a strict identifier on so-called race.. or even color, it is more of an ethnic identity in much the same way as Italian American, or Irish American, Chinese American etc, all have parades on Madison ave. waving their flags of ancestral origin along side the red white and blue , ethnic pride alongside American pride with no conflict , all are welcome to sample ethnic dishes and music, you can have a Black American parade I guess , but try having a white American parade and you'll be on your own.. put on a European day parade and folks of all walks of life will show up and help you celebrate.

Who cares what these idiot athletes and celebrities have to say?

Fake as a sixty year old with a boobjob

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
Who cares what these idiot athletes and celebrities have to say?

Fake as a sixty year old with a boobjob

I do , as they have tremendous access to the mike and can have an equally tremendous impact for better or worst don't believe me?? look at Trump a celebrity extraordinaire a reality t.v host that landed the top job in the U.S of A so you should care agree with them or not.

originally posted by: Spider879
The point you are missing is , African American ancestors literally came from all over the continent, from the Nile to the Niger from the Zambezi to the Senegal , from the rain forest to the desert.

I'm not missing that point at all. The notion that someone would group an entire continent (with countless varied individual cultures and numerous ethnicities) into one encompassing culture just doesn't fly. It denies the true individuality of all the specific and varied cultures involved.

originally posted by: Spider879
But lets be real here, African American or even Black American which is interchangeable is not a strict identifier on so-called race.. or even color, it is more of an ethnic identity in much the same way as Italian American, or Irish American, Chinese etc, all have parades on Madison ave. waving their flags of ancestral origin along side the red white and blue ethnic pride alongside American pride with no conflict all are welcome to sample ethnic dishes and music, you can have a Black American parade I guess ,but try having a white American parade and you'll be on your own.. put on a European day parade and folks of all walks of life will show up and help you celebrate.

Again, the issue is that the labels African American and Black American are not really interchangeable. There are tons of black Jamaican, Haitian, South Indian, etc. Americans that find others labeling them as simply being "African" Americans offensive because it denies their families' known national heritages based on the color of their skin. They are proud of their national heritages, and many black Americans have heritages that have virtually nothing to do with Africa at all (again technically all humans share African heritage if you go back far enough, but you know what I'm saying).

And there, in your analogy, is the point that you're missing. "African" is not really an ethnic identity the same way as a national Jamaican American, Italian American, Irish American, Haitian American, Chinese American, etc. herritage. Africa has numerous and varied individual cultures/ethnicities/countries the same way that Europe does. Put on a "European day" parade and folks of all walks of life will not show up the same way to help you celebrate as if you were to have a refined/focused Jamaican American, or Italian American, etc. parade.

I suppose in the interests of avoiding further thread drift we'll just have to agree to disagree, or start a new thread to continue.

As far as Kaepernick goes, I'm not much of an NFL guy anymore, but it's great to see someone who has come into such success truly putting effort into giving back, and working hard to help those less fortunate.

a reply to: redmage

I'm not missing that point at all. The notion that someone would group an entire continent (with countless varied individual cultures and numerous ethnicities) into one encompassing culture just doesn't fly. It denies the true individuality of all the specific and varied cultures involved.

There is no specific nationality African Americans can point to in Africa as they are combined in all those nationalities and ethnicities , and Jamaicans Haitian etc doesn't really cut it as these are clear nationalities, Jamaicans for example are of varying ethnic groups, some Id as Black or Afo-Jamaican other as Chinese Jamaican , Indians,Syrian etc.
And African Americans have the right to reconnect to the mother continent if they wished and have no specifics but embrace all Africa as our own, even if it's in spirit, there are aspects to AA culture that came out of all points of Africa..so why not.. and again non of this negate their American experience or shared culture with other Americans.

a reply to: redmage

As far as Kaepernick goes, I'm not much of an NFL guy anymore, but it's great to see someone who has come into such success truly putting effort into giving back, and working hard to help those less fortunate.

On this we can agree..

a reply to: Spider879

This probably didn't occur to you, but maybe people just have a deep respect for the national anthem. So, nothing he does will make it right. Why do you even care? Their opinions aren't stopping him from being a terrible NFL quarterback. Everyone can dislike him if they want.
Secondly, could they pick a worse person to be in this video? I want to punch myself in the face just looking at the still frame. No way I'm going to actually listen to what I imagine his voice sounds like. Ok, that was petty and presumptuous... I'll listen.

Yup, sounded just like I thought it would.

originally posted by: bender151
a reply to: Spider879

This probably didn't occur to you, but maybe people just have a deep respect for the national anthem. So, nothing he does will make it right. Why do you even care? Their opinions aren't stopping him from being a terrible NFL quarterback. Everyone can dislike him if they want.
Secondly, could they pick a worse person to be in this video? I want to punch myself in the face just looking at the still frame. No way I'm going to actually listen to what I imagine his voice sounds like. Ok, that was petty and presumptuous... I'll listen.

Yup, sounded just like I thought it would.

I have a deep respect for the national anthem and flag, I saluted it twice a day and snapped to attention in and out of uniform, but I also care very deeply about lives and justice and the right to protest using those very symbols to say something is very freakin wrong here.

a reply to: Spider879

I do , as they have tremendous access to the mike and can have an equally tremendous impact for better or worst don't believe me?? look at Trump a celebrity extraordinaire a reality t.v host that landed the top job in the U.S of A so you should care agree with them or not.

OK, lets take your example. Colin is a second string backup quarterback who gets paid millions to throw around a pigskin. Only in America can he even make that kind of money playing that particular game, yet he hates America so much he does'nt stand for the national anthem. What an idiot extraordinaire. Why should I care about anything that comes out of the mouth of obvious morons? Because other morons care and want to discuss it? That is exactly what the pretty people on TV who tell you what to believe, think and buy count on.

Actors were one of the lowest class of citizen in ancient Rome. Right down there with the beggars and the prostitutes. Its easy to see why. Only in this bass ackwards country can these idiots get paid millions and people think they fart gold and their opinions are the gospel.

As for trump, he did not get elected because he was on TV, he was a well known celebrity figure even before that. He is the only one that I've ever seen put his money where his mouth is literally. He is the only one I've ever seen have a blatant ongoing smear campaign from the establishment. He pisses off alot of people that I can't stand. That is the real reason he got elected.