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Affordable Healthcare Reform Will Never Work Until This Happens

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posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 11:48 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: GreyScale

First take a breath and read the first sentence, we agree.

The repubs just helped create this goat screw of a bill. Then the dems were stupid enough to vote for it.

The Repubs were very smart to debate and shape this mess. But then remember they are willing to screw over the entire American population to prove a point that the dems suck. Guess what so do the repubs. They are playing with people lives, financial and medical. And they don't really care, they long ago forgot what they were there to do.



I took a breath. Maybe you should put down the pipe.

You are saying that the republicans, who have not supported the free healthcare thing since before Bill Clinton, suddenly played a Jedi mind trick on the Democrats that made them stupid so they wrote and passed a 3,000+ page health care act that they had to pass before they could read it so it could better mankind? And the Republicans did it? With a super majority of Dems in the House, Senate and a Democratic President to sign it off? With not a single Republican voting for it?

This conversation is over. I enjoy our talks, but you are obviously not at your best tonight.

Have a good night, friend. We'll talk tomorrow.
edit on 23Sun, 15 Jan 2017 23:50:26 -0600America/Chicago17th2017-01-15T23:50:26-06:00pmSundayAmerica/Chicago by GreyScale because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 12:01 AM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: visitedbythem
31 days and back to light duty-you are one tough bird, that had to be some toe curling pain, hats off to you.

Do you remember any strange stuff when you left your body? If so sounds like a great thread.

Yes I remember the whole thing. It was of the high points of my life. I was out for a full hour. I flew high above the Earth, very fast. I was surprised it was dark around me in space, but I could see the planet. When I came back, I flew through the ceiling of the hospital at a high rate of speed. I hit the hospital bed, and was drawn into my body so fast and was surprised the bed didn't even move. I awoke right away physically, and the nurse came to me, I told her what happened. She was excited and happy. Almost immediately the catheter bag began dripping urine, as my kidneys came online, The bag was full of billiruben from before, it looked like cococola, but right away yello urine began dripping into it. My skin had been yellow from my liver shutting down, but now my face gained a natural color, and my eyues went white, they were yellow before. I came back to life right after this experience. I was still very weak, don't get me wrong, but I began to come alive again immediatly



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: synthetichuman

Mandatory posted pricing and health debit cards with rollover.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 01:25 AM
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Medicare for all. $120 per ind, $240 per family. Private insurance for those who can afford it and to supplement medicare.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 02:43 AM
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originally posted by: visitedbythem
I was in a serious motorcycle accident about 9 years ago. My bill was 70 grand. I went to pay my portion, which was 5 grand ( my insurance paid the rest).


I live in California, too.

I had bypass surgery a few years ago with a hospital stay of several days.

My bill was $25.00, and I got to keep the pillow.

You need better insurance.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 03:43 AM
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a reply to: synthetichuman

The problem stems from two things. First, the fact that private insurers are involved at any stage. Second, the fact that hospitals are privately run, and doctors employed by private enterprises.

Let me be clear. Everyone who works on an ambulance, at a hospital or doctors office, should be a state or federal employee. The hospital should not charge anything for treatment at point of issue, or for that matter at any time. The cost of all treatment at hospital should be paid for by taxation, and private companies kept as far away from the process, on all fronts, as is physically possible. By creating this situation, you prevent the sort of gouging you are talking about entirely, because everyone in the system is working for the same overall employer, and beholden to ethical standards which are rigorously enforced. Allowing any part of the healthcare system to be privately owned and operated, from the proctologist to the porter, from the laboratories to the lobby staff, inserts into the system a greed which has no place in medicine.

Medicine should be about the saving of lives, not the making of money. For those who say why not both, I would point to the fact that people die because they cannot afford treatment, on a pretty regular basis. But of course, this issue is not even about medicine really, or the insurance companies. Its about the economy and the foundations thereof, its about ethics and morality and how little these things REALLY matter to those who object to paying taxes to ensure everyone gets equal treatment, its about the fact, the indisputable fact, that those who fail to understand the benefits of a fully socialised system of healthcare, fail to not because they CANNOT see that it has virtue, but that they choose not to see what virtue there is, because if they accept that socialised medicine has value, then they have to accept that social systems as a whole are not a bad thing necessarily either.

This would be beyond hard for some to accept, purely on the grounds that being shown that there are better ways to do things, than making everything about how much money you can make from it, would be devastating to their over programmed, backwardly mobile psyche.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 06:43 AM
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a reply to: seasonal

But those are the kinds of costs we end up with because we are paying for everyone else, not just ourselves. Insurance collectivizes care.

The idea is that every pays in less than the cost, but it builds up over time so if you do ever need a payout, you will have paid in more than enough to cover, and when everyone does this, the amounts even out. Insurance companies gamble they will win more than lose.

This is why I say insurance should be restricted to catastrophic events. Those are far, far less likely to happen over the course of your life than routine care or small/common injuries like breaks or sprains ... or even the birth of a new baby. That would make it more like life insurance where the premiums are so much less because the risk of payout is likewise so much less.

Then you look for other ways to help folks with the costs of the other care like HSAs and similar remedies. But even so, when the doctor deals directly with the patient, costs would come down as there is no more middleman involved.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 07:36 AM
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Ask your self, what do insurance companies really provide the sick and the injured? They are more than a money exchange and a shell game, because they hold their costumer's lives in their hands, and hold the doctors by the balls.

Back when doctors were allowed to be doctors and before they sold their sold to the devil, it was rare that a person was denied treatment due to money. There were a million and one other reasons that a person was not able to get treatment, the biggest reason, was the lack of available practitioners.

I believe this fiasco started with the birth of Blue Cross and Blue Shield and the deal the government made with this devil.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: infolurker

In Michigan the web sites have some prices, oddly enough they are all withing 3-5% of each other.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: visitedbythem

Wow. Now this is the stuff I enjoy reading.

Did you write down your experience?

I don't mean to pry, but I have never had contact with anyone who was "lucky" (and I don't mean to minimize your accident)enough to have this happen. Would you do a thread?



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 08:33 AM
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I know few people really know me, and fewer still, really listen to anything I have to say. I have tried to be a faithful and consistent member of ATS. It is not always easy to share information that you feel is important, but you know that people may not understand how important it is, especially if it is information that others may not want to be shared. There are a multitude of ways to silence a person.

I have left here a time or two and returned a time or two. I don't post for stars and flags, my stats show this. I post only to share information that I think is relevant or important. I am restricted in what and how much I share, because I have too many people other than myself, that I have to care for, and I have felt the wrath of those that control my abi!ity to provide that care. So while I have not completely morphed into an obedient and compliant little Dobee, I have learned my lessons well enough to try to not be the nail with its head too far above the board.

Times are getting tougher, and it has probably gone unnoticed but my contributions to ATS have decreased and I suspect, my contributions will be fewer and further between. From about 2012 I tried to warn about the coming Leviathan. In 2013 I contributed this thread -www.abovetopsecret.com...

Since I post more for the lurker than I do for tbe contributers on ATS, I have no way of knowing if my message is even getting through, or just sitting somewhere in a dark corner of a data storage bin. I have tried to give a heads up whenever I am able about things that I feel is important, ATS isn't the best place for the sharing and discussion of ideas anymore, to be honest, I don't think any of those places exist anymore online. I think all the once good sites have been infiltrated, or the serious contributors have just thrown in the towel.

I know it sounds like I may be trying to be mysterious and cryptic at times, it is not the case. For all of the folks that come here for real information, I suggest you drop the old demand of "pics or links or it didn't happen", and learn to read between the lines and do your own vetting. Trust me on this one. The last thing you want to do in this day and age is to follow the yellow brick road.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

With 2,500 deductible individual and $10,000 deduct family it is quickly becoming what you think it should be. The problem is there is no cost reduction in the monthly premiums, and those premiums are more than a mortgage.

Seems that the system is broken, and there is little to do but let it crash. This will kill countless, but this has been brewing for since 1975. That is when the gains in productivity stopped being shared with employees and pocketed by the corps.


This is why I say insurance should be restricted to catastrophic events. Those are far, far less likely to happen over the course of your life than routine care or small/common injuries like breaks or sprains ... or even the birth of a new baby. That would make it more like life insurance where the premiums are so much less because the risk of payout is likewise so much less.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: loam

Are you talking about selling insurance across state lines? If so how would that lower costs?


increase supply, lower demand.

Its how our economy works. Insurance needs deregulation so the markets can open up. You shouldn't need a license to operate, only a certificate. Either that, or the licensing procedures need to be opened much wider.

Only a few companies can afford to operate in multiple states. Which constricts the market considerably.

If you want to control the prices charged by medical staff, you can do this relatively easy by amending the medicare pay schedule. Its the unoffical regulator of pricing.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The AMA is a part of this huge problem. They say how many of what Dr. where and when. Also control major test equipment.

Insurance companies only pay bills. Having more of them is not a good way to lower costs. The hospitals in Michigan do list some of the costs on websites. They essentially the same price. So insurance companies would still pay the same price no matter if they are from Utah or Maine.

The reason medical costs are out of control, is that the hospitals/Dr.s charges are very high. Now why are they so high?



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: seasonal

The AMA is a part of this huge problem. They say how many of what Dr. where and when. Also control major test equipment.


The AMA does not control medical cost. CMS is where you should be looking if you are looking for the biggest culprit in the cost of medical care.

The AMA are nothing more than pawns being lied to and shifted around the game board.
edit on 16-1-2017 by NightSkyeB4Dawn because: Accidentally posted prematurely.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 10:18 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If you want to control the prices charged by medical staff, you can do this relatively easy by amending the medicare pay schedule. Its the unoffical regulator of pricing.

But who or what controls Medicare costs?

If you have a little time to kill, take a stroll down the CMS website. Take a long look at Meaningful Use, MIPS, MARCA, etc.


Following years of advocacy by the nation's physicians standing up for their patients and their practices, Congress repealed the sustainable growth rate (SGR) formula. The Medicare Access and CHIP Reauthorization Act of 2015 (MACRA), in addition to eliminating the SGR, represents the most significant change in Medicare physician payment policy in over 25 years.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

What is the CMS?

So the AMA doesn't control the number of what kind of Dr.'s and where? Or the AMA doesn't have the country cut up into sections and determine where MRI- CAT scans and other large expensive test equipment are allowed? There by controlling the cost?



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: seasonal

The reason medical costs are out of control, is that the hospitals/Dr.s charges are very high. Now why are they so high?



Because Insurance wants to be able to negotiate a rate.

if you want to charge $100 for something, you'll have to price it at $180, then give the insurance company their discount. You, as a cash paying customer, are eligible for the same discount (by law). You just have to pay lump sum in cash. Otherwise, you get gouged on the payment plan.

Similarly, if you have a managed care plan costs are controlled on the front end. You won't get the $200 tylenol tablet in a managed health care plan. You are free to manage your own health care, but its hard to make decisions when you aren't conscious.

Rates, however, are a different monkey. The industry is stagnant, mired in risk assessments. Increased competition creates increased innovation. In a world where we are clammoring for new profit models, i believe increasing competition is a good thing.

If you want to bring down costs, start here: www.cms.gov.../feeschedulegeninfo/

Side note: note the fee schedules and how they drift by local market. Someone in NY would benefit from a potential purchase of out of state insurance. If nothing else, it stabilizes the market on a national level, to some degree.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 11:05 AM
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a reply to: seasonal
CMS controls it all.


About CMS
The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, CMS, is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). Watch a short video to get to know about us and our work, mission, and vision. Or watch a longer version to also get to know the programs we administer including: Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), and the Health Insurance Marketplace. [/exe]

www.cms.gov...



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Part of the problem started when wage controls were instituted and then employers started offering other perks to lure in and/or keep better talent. One of the things they started offering was health insurance. That was the beginning of the coupling of health insurance and work and the big beginning of needing health insurance for everything. Prior to that, most people paid out of pocket for a lot of their care.

And even when wage controls were repealed, the damage was done.



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