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Please, please...PUH-LEEZE!!!

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posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 06:38 PM
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please, let's pray the lefties get something to hang onto! They're in full meltdown mode! OMG


Sounds like the OP is the one in meltdown mode.

I guess he is "triggered" by all the leftists.

So much that he has to make a thread about it.
edit on 15-1-2017 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: Bluesma

And it's funny how my family is pretty much all self-supporting and educated like yours and we're all pretty much on the right.

The thing I don't like about leftist policies is that there is no opt out. We all have to be forced along. Like Obamacare or public education. I don't use the public schools, but I end up paying for them all the same. There should be, and are, systems in the world where everyone still pays for schooling but we aren't all forced to pay for the same failing ones.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 07:27 PM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Please, please, let's pray the lefties get something to hang onto! They're in full meltdown mode! OMG...I've never seen anything like it before in my 54 years!!

They're lashing out like infantile children at every single thing imaginable, grabbing at the faintest of straws and desperately clinging to absolutely any tiniest of thread of scandal to sate their unbridled hatred and anger! It is shocking (and saddening) to me to witness the entitlement culture this country has bred in the past 8 years. Just absolutely STAGGERING!!

The left is absolutely TERRIFIED their entire way of life, their gravy train, will vanish before their eyes, and Gawd forbid they might have to actually work in a competitive work environment where work is evaluated on actual merit and performance. They absolutely LOATHE the notion that the color of one's skin, or one's gender, or one's ethnic background will no longer serve as an excuse (for everything). (GULP!) They may even have to actually provide for themselves (PERISH the thought!!!).

Ironically, it's not just the left who feel these same emotions of sheer terror. No, the "establishment" politicians and elite are in the same boat. They simply cannot accept outright REJECT the notion, under any circumstances, that they could be held accountable for their actions!! That there might be some transparency into their world by the unwashed masses who elect them is categorically unacceptable!!! OH...MY...GAWD...this just CANNOT be!!!

They will fight to the very death to preserve their entitlement status and mentality. It's absolutely incredible! I never dreamt in a million years we would ever see such unrepentant hatred by such a large segment of society. Equally, it should serve as a reminder what nursing a child from the teat into its teens will result in...absolute and utter dependence. From their perspective, they've gotten so used to a way of life it has become inconceivable to them that all the free stuff, all the obfuscation of reality and all the free lunches would end. They have become so obtuse they are unable to see how unsustainable all of this is in the "real world".

And so they're lashing out, like the spoiled children they are. Spoiled by a government bent on self-indulgence under the guise of changing the world.

Please give them something to hang on to. Please. Give them a 'bankee' so they can go suck their thumb and pout in the corner...while the rest of the World gets on with life.

Please!



Entitlement culture has been bred in this country over the past eight years? Really? Were you born eight years ago or just been living underneath a rock? Perhaps is it because the current POTUS is a black man? I only bring that up because you mentioned race. He also must love illegals as he's deported quite a few more of them than the previous Republican administration. Don't get me wrong here, I'm no fan of BHO. I just have a bit of a hard time understanding criticism of things like that ACA's individual mandate as the GOP's own Newt Gingrich championed the idea at one point . He'll the ACA is quite similar to Romney Care, ya know the last GOP Presidential contender?

Perhaps we should immediately abolish Social Security (or better yet privatize and link it to the markets as dubya proposed... That would have worked out really well!), Medicare and Medicaid! While we're at it lets also just entirely abolish food stamps and let tens of millions of people starve to death.

Are their a sizeable group of people out there that intentionally, and some might say professionally, abuse the system? He'll yeah there are. If you really want to see entitlement culture come to an end a few things need to happen first. To start with there needs to be comprehensive criminal justice reform and comprehensive education reform. We'll get nowhere with a bunch of uneducated youth coming from fatherless homes. The situation obviously perpetuates itself and that is not by accident. IE - the report out of California years ago about CIA funnelling coc aine into the inner city. We also need infrastructure spending within the inner cities as well as vocational programs to get people back to work. The problem is that there need to be jobs, preferably manufacturing jobs. But guess what they're mostly gone and if you think King Trump is going to bring them all back then you are sadly mistaken. This is not "The power of the will". It sure as sh1t didn't happen during the last 8 years.

The dismantling of this country's industrial and manufacturing sectors happened most recently under Jimmy Carter's fed chair, Paul Adolf Volker, who raised interest rates so high that it became nearly impossible for manufacturers to affordably raise necessary capital. This mindset continued throughout the following administrations. Even the lauded Ronald Reagan had a hand in this. We as a nation very quickly, with all things taken into consideration, became a service economy.

It's kind of ironic that I hear many older conservatives speak nostalgically of the 1950's and early 60's. What they seem to neglect is that the marginal tax rate for the wealthy was far higher and that without that income "big government" never could have set in place the space program, social security, Medicare and so on.

Also, while I certainly do not oppose the civil rights act, it is interesting to note that prior to its passage African American families had a lower rate of children out of wedlock than white families. I'm not in any way suggesting that black people should not have been provided equal rights under the law but if you couple that with LBJ's "Great Society" and look at the results decades on it becomes pretty clear that what we see in impoverished inner city neighborhoods was a well planned strategy. Similar in some ways to the "Gladiolus strategy of tension". It's all about divide and conquer and it seems that you have fallen right into that trap with your disdain for entitlements, liberals and Obama. This has been in motion for far longer than the past eight years and quite honestly mainstream "liberals" like Hillary are not liberals at all. They are Wall Street's whores and should be called NeoLibs. Their ideology is quite consistent with that of NeoCons.

What was constructive liberalism, in the tradition of FDR, died with JFK or perhaps even FDR himself. Ultimately though the right is just as much to blame for what you have called an entitlement society. With their unwillingness to fix what I mentioned above the divide and anger will only grow. If we as a society don't treat the root causes of the problem they will only continue and continue on a larger scale. In fact they may result racial tensions greater than what we are seeing today. One must however realise that this is all planned, if we're to busy fighting with each other were not going to take our eyes off of the shiny object in one hand to see what is in the other.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 07:28 PM
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Err... Another double post
edit on 15-1-2017 by s3cz0ne because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 08:08 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: UKTruth


What's solution 7? Can you elaborate? Thanks. I've seen it a few times but I don't remember that reference.



The only solution that works - "stage a counter coup and take back control". We're not even close to the point where control has been seized from those people behind the curtain who make the rules.


Take back control of the power centers, one by one, in the same manner that they were lost.

Doesn't hurt to start with the White House..



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 08:13 PM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: UKTruth


What's solution 7? Can you elaborate? Thanks. I've seen it a few times but I don't remember that reference.



The only solution that works - "stage a counter coup and take back control". We're not even close to the point where control has been seized from those people behind the curtain who make the rules.


Take back control of the power centers, one by one, in the same manner that they were lost.

Doesn't hurt to start with the White House..


I think that dismantling the propaganda machine that Obama created is the first task (including reinstating anti-propaganda laws that Obama repealed)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Ah, but first you have to "come to power" in order to dismantle those things, while identifying the pirates and getting them out of power.

Major 1st task - check!



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 08:59 PM
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Steve Bannon is the key and the secret hidden weapon.

Even now he's constructing a "bat cave" from which to wage an all out internal bloodless civil war and revolution with the sole aim of restoring the Republic while driving economic growth within the context of a more settled world where the tradeoff for sustained mutual prosperity will be a sustained mutual peace.

A new era. A renaissance.

That's what he has in mind.

Trump is just some sort of figurehead with a pretty good instinct for what's real and what's just BS.

Bannon is the real mastermind behind it all.

He's read his history and The Art of War. He's a warrior banker and a friend of the late Andrew Breitbart.

It's perfect.

Onwards and upwards.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 11:49 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Another Troll thread. OP posts some biased, inflammatory remarks, generalizing millions of people, and then waits for someone to dispute what he's saying so that he can argue that the response itself affirms his original remarks. To the extent people don't take the bait and respond, OP can argue it's because they agree with his ideas. He wins either way, right? If you're trying to argue your superiority, you might consider acting somewhat mature and abandoning straw man arguments. The truly stronger and better side of a debate should not require one to make personal attacks in lieu of rational arguments.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 12:16 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Bluesma

And it's funny how my family is pretty much all self-supporting and educated like yours and we're all pretty much on the right.


Yeah, it really doesn't seem to me, from the people I know, that we can catagorize all people into right or left based upon their social class or way of living. People in the same situations often just have different ways of regarding the world.




The thing I don't like about leftist policies is that there is no opt out. We all have to be forced along.


Yeah, I get that.

When I listen to people who are for such things, they have a different vie of the world- they feel that the state of the whole is effected by the states of the individuals it is made up of. So that having more people being educated and healthy, for example, is good for everyone. So.... when they pay taxes they know will go towards that for others, they figure it is in their best interests too, indirectly.
Those relatives WANT to pay more and ready to pay more, to bring up the standard of health and education in the US!

They seem to think that because EVERYONE benefits from having a more educated and healthy population,
if you can choose to just opt out of that effort,
than you are just free riding.... you are getting the benefit of living in a stronger society, without playing your part in creating it.

Big disparities between classes, in both wealth and health, might not effect negatively the very very insanely rich. But I wonder if it effects the middle to high middle class person? Some people think it does, some think not. But their ideas don't seem to be predictable according to their present position.


edit on 16-1-2017 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 12:19 AM
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a reply to: andrewh7

But could you be persuaded with a well-informed rational argument founded in reason and logic and a love for the sake and cause of what's best and in everyone's enlightened mutual best interest?

As you've pointed out and as I also mentioned a page back, the OP is a total fail.

It's worse in a way than accomplishing nothing whatsoever except to alienate while making one's self appear to be right or even righteous to another's wrong.

There are a whole host of reasons why something leaning a little more in favor of libertarianism can best protect and preserve the space of freedom and why free market capitalism and individual self-determination is the basis by which true Liberal ideas can be expressed in society, but it has to be tolerant and inclusive, not we're right and you're all idiots.

A Liberal is really someone who cares very deeply about social inequalities and economic and social justice, and we all know that the system is just inadequate to the task and that therefore, bigger government and bureaucracy cannot be the answer.

Hillary Clinton was in many ways bat # crazy. We all know it, even those of us who once supported her. Outwardly she's one thing, inwardly, she's a terror and a tyrant.

Liberty was and is being eroded in the spheres of public opinion according to a dialectic which seeks to draw up sides as per the way the MSM has handled this, and right now, that's the fault of the left who offer nothing except anti-Trump outrage, and that's no basis for a conversation either.

Sanity must somehow be restored.

Truth and reality and authentic justice and leadership must somehow prevail.

Trump should stop grandstanding, lay off twitter and get set to work with Bannon essentially remaking government to serve a cause of Freedom imbedded in the Judeo-Christian ideal (properly understood).

Let everyone else laud the progress that's being made.

When Trump speaks it should be via well crafted and well acted (authentically) speeches, speeches that he's memorized and can deliver, so as to pack more information into what's being shared with the American people and what is being asked of them in terms of their participation and consent.

Somehow he has to win half of the other half over, at the very least, by letting them in on what he's doing by doing it right and then letting the results speak for themselves.

The media circus has to be silenced. Don't give them anything except everything that you intend to deliver.

Just get it all done, don't bother talking, and when you do, talk right and communicate straight all the right ideas and information.


If I were Bannon, I'd work up a dossier for Trump that would contain the whole message in all of it's myriad components rendered in a Trump-like manner.

This document, by reading and re-reading it over and over again until it's fully "grokked", would give Trump the needed language to describe the plan of action in such a way and manner that the American people will be able to support it and get behind it, without all this fist shaking and angst at the mere prospect of Trump's election.

What's more American?

The left aren't really following the American way right now, but they must be led with persuasive, rational arguments which appeal to our highest common denominator and shared common values and interests.

The description for what Bannon and Trump are wanting to achieve hasn't even been written yet.

That's what I'd be working on is a type of manual covering in details the 101 things the Trump administration wishes to accomplish on behalf of the American people in a spirit of Americanism before globalism with fairer trade deals and practices, etc etc.

It needs to be mind-mapped.

Hearts and minds are won with IDEAS, and it's that essential idea in all of it's myriad forms that contains imbedded within itself the power to remake the country and history according to an ideal that's in closer alignment with the spirit and intentions of the founding fathers.


Pirates be gone.

edit on 16-1-2017 by AnkhMorpork because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 02:51 AM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: andrewh7

But could you be persuaded with a well-informed rational argument founded in reason and logic and a love for the sake and cause of what's best and in everyone's enlightened mutual best interest?

As you've pointed out and as I also mentioned a page back, the OP is a total fail.

It's worse in a way than accomplishing nothing whatsoever except to alienate while making one's self appear to be right or even righteous to another's wrong.

There are a whole host of reasons why something leaning a little more in favor of libertarianism can best protect and preserve the space of freedom and why free market capitalism and individual self-determination is the basis by which true Liberal ideas can be expressed in society, but it has to be tolerant and inclusive, not we're right and you're all idiots.

A Liberal is really someone who cares very deeply about social inequalities and economic and social justice, and we all know that the system is just inadequate to the task and that therefore, bigger government and bureaucracy cannot be the answer.

Hillary Clinton was in many ways bat # crazy. We all know it, even those of us who once supported her. Outwardly she's one thing, inwardly, she's a terror and a tyrant.

Liberty was and is being eroded in the spheres of public opinion according to a dialectic which seeks to draw up sides as per the way the MSM has handled this, and right now, that's the fault of the left who offer nothing except anti-Trump outrage, and that's no basis for a conversation either.

Sanity must somehow be restored.

Truth and reality and authentic justice and leadership must somehow prevail.

Trump should stop grandstanding, lay off twitter and get set to work with Bannon essentially remaking government to serve a cause of Freedom imbedded in the Judeo-Christian ideal (properly understood).

Let everyone else laud the progress that's being made.

When Trump speaks it should be via well crafted and well acted (authentically) speeches, speeches that he's memorized and can deliver, so as to pack more information into what's being shared with the American people and what is being asked of them in terms of their participation and consent.

Somehow he has to win half of the other half over, at the very least, by letting them in on what he's doing by doing it right and then letting the results speak for themselves.

The media circus has to be silenced. Don't give them anything except everything that you intend to deliver.

Just get it all done, don't bother talking, and when you do, talk right and communicate straight all the right ideas and information.


If I were Bannon, I'd work up a dossier for Trump that would contain the whole message in all of it's myriad components rendered in a Trump-like manner.

This document, by reading and re-reading it over and over again until it's fully "grokked", would give Trump the needed language to describe the plan of action in such a way and manner that the American people will be able to support it and get behind it, without all this fist shaking and angst at the mere prospect of Trump's election.

What's more American?

The left aren't really following the American way right now, but they must be led with persuasive, rational arguments which appeal to our highest common denominator and shared common values and interests.

The description for what Bannon and Trump are wanting to achieve hasn't even been written yet.

That's what I'd be working on is a type of manual covering in details the 101 things the Trump administration wishes to accomplish on behalf of the American people in a spirit of Americanism before globalism with fairer trade deals and practices, etc etc.

It needs to be mind-mapped.

Hearts and minds are won with IDEAS, and it's that essential idea in all of it's myriad forms that contains imbedded within itself the power to remake the country and history according to an ideal that's in closer alignment with the spirit and intentions of the founding fathers.


Pirates be gone.


I think this might be the best thing I've ever read on ats. We're all spending so much time trying to troll reactions out of each other (see OP) that we're not discussing the actual politics. The divide is simply widening to a point where it's not much better than civil war.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 06:10 AM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

Trump should stop grandstanding, lay off twitter and get set to work with Bannon essentially remaking government to serve a cause of Freedom imbedded in the Judeo-Christian ideal (properly understood).

Let everyone else laud the progress that's being made.

When Trump speaks it should be via well crafted and well acted (authentically) speeches, speeches that he's memorized and can deliver, so as to pack more information into what's being shared with the American people and what is being asked of them in terms of their participation and consent.

Somehow he has to win half of the other half over, at the very least, by letting them in on what he's doing by doing it right and then letting the results speak for themselves.

The media circus has to be silenced. Don't give them anything except everything that you intend to deliver.

Just get it all done, don't bother talking, and when you do, talk right and communicate straight all the right ideas and information.




But then, he wouldn't be Trump. That is not his style, that is (probably) not within his capacity, it is not his personality.

He won the election as he is... because the people like the way he is. Or at least half of them do.
I think that if he followed your advice, and became a more self controlled rational and intellectual personality laying out his plan of service in more realistic terms, he might win the approval of the other half. But then he'd lose the half that loves the way he talks and acts now, wouldn't he?

Look at the OP here - this is the type of personality that loves Trump. They claim it is great fun to upset people, to scare them, to provoke their fears.....to stir discord and conflict was the reason for the post, and the reason they want Trump. That's what he is good for.
They would be mightly bored if Trump started acting any other way.


edit on 16-1-2017 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 06:52 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

It's not that I think having more healthy people and more educated people is bad thing. It would be a good thing. The problem is that I don't believe the systems I am being forced to pay for or that the left wants to force me to pay are achieving or going to achieve what they say they will.

We've been throwing more and more money into our current public education system for decades and it's either been completely flat in terms of progress in educating or going backward. Some places produce more adults who are functionally illiterate than they produce well educated ones and they aren't in the hick backwaters but in the big cities.

And when we talk about "fixing" this, the proposed solution is always more funding. But money isn't a solution, it's just a tool.

And now the same system of control that makes our education system such a quagmire is what they want to impose on our health care too.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 07:35 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma


Look at the OP here - this is the type of personality that loves Trump. They claim it is great fun to upset people, to scare them, to provoke their fears.....to stir discord and conflict was the reason for the post, and the reason they want Trump. That's what he is good for.


There's an element of truth in this statement. Though it's not about being "fun" really or 'upsetting, scaring and provoking fear' (unless that of the establishment). It's actually a very serious matter. It's about 'shaking things up', breaking through status-quo and effecting true change (not the kind Obama illustrated, or even Bush before him), but real change. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see that the path we've been headed down is both unsustainable and dangerously wrong. People do need to wake up and pay attention, people on both sides. People need to get up, get involved; they need to be part of the solution, not just expect it to come about for them. It's not about everyone marching in lockstep to the drum of one man, one person, but rather to understand the government in this country has grown into this unmanageable behemoth with an appetite for taxpayer money like the World has never seen. We've allowed it to become this monster, and now it's time to change it. It just can't continue.

It's not about me, or my feelings; it's about the future. It's about the future for future generations.

You know, I sit here and read all of the vitriol directed at the OP (me) and wonder. Maybe it's a good thing. If this thread has accomplished one thing it has laid bare some of the raw emotion that's out there...festering. And to a degree, that was my hope. It wasn't about being "fun", but rather about being necessary and vital to future survival.

A while back I read a pretty good book on management philosophy and organizational change. The book, First, Break All The Rules (by Buckingham and Coffman) talks about a lot of things being discussed here. It goes beyond the "what" (anybody can do that), and focuses on the "who", "why" and "how". One of the undertones of the book is, in order for real change to take place people need to understand and accept that the change is happening, regardless of their bemoaning it. After a while being nice and having endless Kum-by-ya sessions doesn't cut it. People need to get to a decision point where "change" isn't part of the decision. In other words, that things are going to change is off the table for discussion, and what remains open for discussion is how this change will be brought about and who will be part of the solution rather than the problem.

Humans are funny creatures when it comes to resisting change, and this is what we're seeing with the Trump phenomenon (if one could call it that). It is my sincere hope that when people come to this thread and read the OP, that they read the whole thread, and all the contributions, not just skip to the last page to pick through the smoldering wreckage. There's actually some really great insight here, and any number of great points and counter points...on both sides. Equally, one can see how ingrained the resistance to change, those who would rather just go back to their recliner and wait for things to change on their own (for the better).



They would be mightly bored if Trump started acting any other way.


And maybe that's how it should be. As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I don't honestly think Trump is the savior of mankind, that he represents the ultimate panacea for all that ills this nation...but he is a start. The mold of career politics and establishment elitism needs to be forever shattered and cast aside. Only an "outsider" can bring this, and Trump, if nothing else, is an outsider. The ingrained corruption and "okay, this is how it really works" mentality is far too great for an insider to resist. Will Trump boil the proverbial oceans? Probably not, but if he gets everyone to stand up, dust themselves off and decide if they want to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem he will have accomplished something.

Change.






edit on 1/16/2017 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 07:40 AM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk


Sadly, if anything, I'm laughing actually AT how immature people can be!!




No you're not.

You're blabbering like a spoiled child.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I understand what you're saying. When talking to individuals, they each seem to have their own perfect solution to the problem !



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 07:55 AM
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originally posted by: Bluesma
a reply to: ketsuko

I understand what you're saying. When talking to individuals, they each seem to have their own perfect solution to the problem !


And maybe that's the problem right there.

With most people on the left, they think there should be one system for everyone, but when you go around and look at places where people are left to come up with their own ways of doing things, you find all kinds of innovative and workable solutions ... things that sometimes make lefties' hair stand on end with their unorthodoxness, but they are working and quite well for that particular place.

Thing is, sometimes, those solutions are working in that place, at that time, and you can't transplant it. They work because of the people you have. Maybe they will only work so long as you have those people and when the magic is done, they'll need to find a new way, but if it's not broke, don't fix it.

But lefties, IME, have a real fondness for this idea that we ought to be able to find some solution that will work like a charm for every single person out there, all the time. They seem to forget that we're all individuals, and there will never be an answer or system that will work perfectly for everyone, but imposing the so-called perfect fit will automatically doom people because they will guarantee a lack of flexibility for people in the system to find answers on their own.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Respectfully, I disagree with your theme.

I don't disagree we need to find solutions, but I disagree with the notion everyone can just sit around and be nice to each other and hope these solutions will just magically happen. They won't. There has to be a leader.

"Too many cooks in the kitchen", "you can't run an organization by committee", "too many chiefs and not enough Indians"...these things have been said for a thousand years. Equally, themes like .."you have to make a mess in order to really clean up"...truly are appropriate here.

You've spoken of sanity being restored. Sanity will only be restored when people see the daylight of hope...when they start seeing "results".

I do agree with your parting shot though..."pirates be gone". Indeed.



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: Greggers

I probably shouldn't respond to this, but I will just for the sake of levity...

I'm glad the group therapy session is working for you.






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