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Please, please...PUH-LEEZE!!!

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posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

I thought the leftists were the party of the working man, not the party of the rich. Oh wait, no I didn't, I've always known they were the party of the rich. But I do thank you for coming right out and confirming this for me.




posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Left is not a party. It is an ideology. It is an ideology that believes in fair and equal treatment for all - rich, poor, middle class, black, white, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, men, women. You will find people of all those groups in the left.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Dfairlite

Left is not a party. It is an ideology. It is an ideology that believes in fair and equal treatment for all - rich, poor, middle class, black, white, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, men, women. You will find people of all those groups in the left.


... unless you are a conservative or disagree with the left's ideology, in which case all bets are off, and persecution becomes necessary. Just ask "Uncle Tom" , Clarence Thomas.
edit on 15/1/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Why does the right assume that the left are only interested in being on welfare and do not honor or value the reality of a living worked for? That's absurd and it's a poor basis for a successful argument.

What precisely they (the left) are for and are all about is more indeterminate and hard to discern clearly, except in the case of Bernie Sanders who was able to articular a left-based type plan on the basis of social and economic justice and fair play.

I used to be a leftist progressive (bleeding heart liberal), until I came to my senses and realized that traditional values, free market capitalism and individual self-determination are the hallmarks of a healthy and successful modern civil society.

So I sort of get where the OP is coming from, but it appears to be rife with a high degree of presumptuousness and ignorance.

What we've been seeing is the establishment freaking out and trying to brainwash the masses via their propaganda arms (they're like an octopus).

The little man who's come to hate and loathe and despise Trump, he doesn't really understand the underlying nature of his own outrage, which is based on a MSM-promulgated caricature, which Trump's outward style and approach doesn't do much to help alleviate, by clearly articulating a vision and mission that points in another direction.

Trying to understand Trump and the underlying nature of his historic victory is like reading tea leaves.

Trump is right that they (the establishment and leftists) don't really know what they are doing, but seems to be at a loss as to what, precisely to do, or if he does know, he's not saying other than "trust me" I want to do a bunch of stuff to "make America great again".

I suppose that Trump has laid out a rough idea of the playing field and set up some signposts, but I never saw much of anything in the way of a real plan.

He and his supporters, myself now included among them, have to do a much better job of speaking and reaching out to "the other half" and I have to say OP that you've done a piss poor job of doing that, of reaching out and extending a hand that's strong and sturdy and that's capable of persuasion instead of hyperbole and an appeal to intolerance and hatred.

The left are terribly flawed and it's incredible the way that Obama was able to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, but the right are like fundamentalist Christians traversing the seas to win a single convert at the tip of a spear or an exclusive duality.

To move forward, the right must begin to form a highly persuasive argument that doesn't insult the people they're trying to win over.

I get it, but it's been extremely difficult to correctly discern, and I'm a fairly intelligent and well educated and informed and "awake" person.

A big part of it was breaking through the façade that's offered by the MSM and Celebrity Culture (including the celebrity of Obama), but I had to suss it out by instinct while groping around in the dark for the most part.


Instead of telling them that they are all nothing but a bunch of spoiled brats, ne'er-do-wells who live on welfare and free handouts and who aren't doing anything to try to climb the broken ladder into the middle class, why not try to see things from the perspective and points of view articulated with authentic congruency by Bernie Sanders, and Occupy Wallstreet, and then offer a highly persuasive argument for and against, enough to shift their entire paradigm and worldview as mine has been shifted by a process of contorted mental gymnastics and spiritual discernment.

So to be honest, I don't think that the right or Trump's camp have been very effective in painting a clear picture to offer a clear choice.

A big mistake that Trump has made and is continuing to make is that he's made it about himself, without adopting the language and ideals of people like Steve Bannon who helped get him elected.

Just maligning and insulting the other side isn't the least bit helpful and does nothing and carries no water or weight to begin a process of unification and reconciliation.

For these reasons, the OP makes me very sad for the current state of human affairs.

Best regards,

Ankh

edit on 15-1-2017 by AnkhMorpork because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Yours is actually a very good point. As has been pointed out (above) the "left" is not a political party, but rather an ideology, but it has become closely identified with the democratic party over time. However, that said, I'd like to focus in on your statement about the democrats standing up for the working man, as this topic warrants some discussion.

Your statement is/was essentially correct. At one time the democratic party did indeed stand up for the average working class person, and by virtue of that theme they also stood up for the 'underdog' of society. They were (at one time) the political alternative to the aristocratic 'elite'. The key word here being "were". Over time, these lines have become blurred and bastardized (if you'll forgive the term). Here again is an example of where the career politicians, the "establishment", have morphed something which originally had a great moral foundation and purpose into something altogether different. Through their own greed and pandering they have turned the party away from 'working class' and toward those who are largely dependent in an effort to rally votes...for their own personal gain.

At the same time, they also allowed what remained of their working class base to hijack corporate business into extinction, and this is where the unions come in. Like the democratic party, the unions in this country once also played an important role in protecting the rights and welfare of working class America. And, in so doing, they contributed massive wealth into the democratic party as their representatives. And over time though, just like the career politicians, they too became greedy and corrupt. In fact, they became so greedy not even the democratic party could fully support their untenable demands, so the party largely abandoned the principles of all but the most extreme. You can see this in the demographics of this election cycle. Historically Democratic powerhouses and heavily unionized states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio all turned blue (incidentally, this is one of the reasons some of these states are called "swing" states as they are pivotal for elections).

So yes, the democratic party did at one time support the 'working man', but they've largely turned their back on working America and focused almost exclusively on those who contribute much less and consume far more. They've done this because they are no longer willing to share their cut of the pie anymore and instead keep it for themselves, and as a result have focused on easier votes to go pander for.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Well, you actually had me thinking through your points and coming up with a detailed response until I got to this part....



...why not try to see things from the perspective and points of view articulated with authentic congruency by Bernie Sanders, and Occupy Wallstreet,...


The Occupy Wall Street movement is EXACTLY the kind of example which illustrates why people feel the way they do about the left, and frankly the kind of thing which caused me to post the OP. Here was a group of people who were out protesting simply because they didn't have anything better to do with their time. Heck, after a month or so fully 3/4 of the people protesting didn't even know what the hell they were protesting about, that or had 80,000 different ideas what it was about. In the end, they were just protesting for the sake of protesting something.

Otherwise I respect your reply, and I don't altogether disagree with the 'be nice and work together' theme. However, in order to get to that starting point we first have to tear the Band-Aid off. And that's where we are right now as long as some of the current nonsense continues.

Best regards,

ETA...And here's the really sad thing about the Occupy Wall Street movement; if they would have actually gone out and protested the banking sector and the thieves on Wall Street, hell, I might have gone and joined them even!! In my mind that was a truly worthy cause...and frankly, still is. But that's not what they were about. In fact, they practically protested everything BUT banking and Wall Street! Sadly, they really didn't understand what they were protesting about, but they were out there so they had to protest about something. In the end it turned into a big cry-baby fest about anything, and everything, regarding their perceived social injustices. It wound up having nothing to do with Wall Street at all. In fact, if you sampled 1,000 of those protesters I'll bet you couldn't find more than one or two who could cite specific examples of what the banking industry and the stock market was actually doing to take America into financial ruin.


edit on 1/15/2017 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Feel better?

When you're done labelling and abusing those who you see as your political opposition, perhaps you and all your friends who support Trump can stop the giant circle-jerk and begin the healing process?


Electing Trump *IS* part of the healing process for 'the system'. The best medicine tastes terrible. Pulling off band aids can hurt quite a bit. Resetting a broken bone is very painful.

The truth hurts.


Or are you more interested in making an already huge problem, being the divisiveness and animosity, even worse?


Can't speak for him, but it's not the conservatives holding press conferences to openly advocate for rebellion.


we can all start working together to heal the divide?

Or is this all too much to ask?



See, that's the problem. We all have an idea for what 'healing the divide' will require. In my experience from the leftist/statists/socialists/etc it requires 100% concession to every facet of their argument, sitting down, and shutting up. Obviously I must be a racist/sexist/homophobe/xenophobe/fascist/etc so my opinion doesn't matter.

And yes, *THAT* is too much to ask. Far too much. I disagree with most of the leftist/statists/socialists/etc agenda and want no part of it. Too much compromise has been made already.

Step one for healing the divide, as far as I am concerned, is for the leftist/statists/socialists/etc to acknowledge their failures and be willing to reverse course on the more disastrous parts of their worldview and look to find true middle ground, and failing that to stop pushing their ideas that don't work and let conservatism and capitalism play itself out.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: khnum
a friend of mine who is very high up in the enlisted ranks told me yesterday he was hearing talk at his base about possible marshal law before friday .



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Steve Bannon disagrees with you.

(from 2011)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: khnum
a friend of mine who is very high up in the enlisted ranks told me yesterday he was hearing talk at his base about possible marshal law before friday .


A friend of your friend who knows one of my friends, told a friend of one my other friends that is not true.

edit on 15/1/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Steve Bannon disagrees with you.

(from 2011)





Saw that interview. Bannon seems like a really decent and extraordinarily smart man.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluvyou do know the two men you refer as being left megarich ie warren buffet and bill gates ares condrels and thieves right . bill gates built his empire on stolen software i.e. dos which he sold to ibm before he bought it and lisa which he stole from steve jobs and renamed windows. warren buffet is a well known oil baron but now he targeting water he goes in buys the rights then bottles the water and sells it at astronomical prices back to people who sit on top of it.




posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 03:44 PM
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Ok, so the crux of the issue isn't about how the right want the left to stop moaning, it is about the right' need for security, for their belief of everyone must earn their place being challenged...because they know one day the tables will turn again.

Can I just take this opportunity to remind people taxes are not your money once they are paid, you are not supporting strangers, you are supporting the system, if people have no income besides starvation and death the economy would suffer, taxes help to re-distribute the wealth to the less well off in life (for whatever reason) and help to keep the tax payers afloat.

I really don't understand the people who insist upon everyone paying their way...no-one forces you to make the decisions you do...perhaps you feel guilt tripped?

Yes, there is a section of society for whom work is a dirty word, they also mostly happen to be the very people you really don't want to be serving you, or in charge of something you hold dear, yet I would defend their existence, because they are also the ones who at some point in their family history were let down, or stepped on.

This is why there is always a debt to be paid to the low/non earners.

They also make it possible for others to get jobs, by not competing, these are points the "pay your own way "crowed miss.

Bottom line, without the people who make sacrifices in this world, whether through choice or happen stance, your opportunities may not have materialised.

Additionally, when was the last time a taxpayer was given something back for their contribution directly, like a bonus?!

Never, they take your taxes and the vast majority is pumped into private enterprise...let's call it corporate welfare, now why would that make you any more happy, your money is still being taken and given to "strangers" only now, it is gambled rather than supporting the less capable.

Remember, none of us paid a fee to enter this world, yet we become enslaved to a system which stifles our potential, the difference between left and right...

The right are more compliant and happy to be caged in this way.

Happy flaming, it is after all the mud pit and there are a fair few pigs wallowing in it here, with their greedy "I want it all" attitude.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Steve Bannon disagrees with you.

(from 2011)





Saw that interview. Bannon seems like a really decent and extraordinarily smart man.


Yes, he does and he knows his stuff, from a whole host of angles and perspectives.

I'm sure that he would not have imagined back then that Andrew Breitbart would die (be murdered?) and that he himself would end up as the power behind the "throne" and sitting in the oval office at the right hand of a POTUS he helped get elected. Puts his plans well ahead of schedule.

I'm very pleased and relieved that he'll be leading the charge in the internal civil war and revolution in favor of Liberty, peace and prosperity.

He knows who all the pirates are and now has the means and the leverage to toss them off the ship and regain control over what was an otherwise completely unaccountable permanent government.

It's an idea who's time has come at last.

edit on 15-1-2017 by AnkhMorpork because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 04:58 PM
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Anyone seen his latest tweet? Poor little snowflake trump triggered by SNL again. He really is insecure and thin skinned. If Obama had tweeted that kind of reply you'd all be posting your crying baby memes. Utterly pathetic for a man about to run a country.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Riiiight, maybe at one point in time t his was correct. But it hasn't been in the last 35 years or so. You know the koch brothers? They didn't donate to trump. They used surrogates to donate to hillary. So the one "rich evil guy's" on the right, supported the democratic nominee. Party of the rich. The rest is lip service to get votes.
edit on 15-1-2017 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: ugmold
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
I think it is clear who is whining here.

Quite.......and we all know why!



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 05:35 PM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Steve Bannon disagrees with you.

(from 2011)





Saw that interview. Bannon seems like a really decent and extraordinarily smart man.


Yes, he does and he knows his stuff, from a whole host of angles and perspectives.

I'm sure that he would not have imagined back then that Andrew Breitbart would die (be murdered?) and that he himself would end up as the power behind the "throne" and sitting in the oval office at the right hand of a POTUS he helped get elected. Puts his plans well ahead of schedule.

I'm very pleased and relieved that he'll be leading the charge in the internal civil war and revolution in favor of Liberty, peace and prosperity.

He knows who all the pirates are and now has the means and the leverage to toss them off the ship and regain control over what was an otherwise completely unaccountable permanent government.

It's an idea who's time has come at last.


The election of Donald Trump would certainly suggest that 'Problem 3' has been somewhat overcome, but it remains to be seen whether the determination exists to fully realise 'Solution 7' ...



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth


What's solution 7? Can you elaborate? Thanks. I've seen it a few times but I don't remember that reference.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: UKTruth


What's solution 7? Can you elaborate? Thanks. I've seen it a few times but I don't remember that reference.



The only solution that works - "stage a counter coup and take back control". We're not even close to the point where control has been seized from those people behind the curtain who make the rules.
edit on 15/1/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)







 
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