Russia Is Playing Chess while the US Is Playing Gotcha

a reply to: banjobrain

As an American, I cant understand how anybody could rationalize the perpetual state of tyrannical global imperialism that the US has been perpetrating against essentially the entire planet for what's getting towards being an entire century now.

How our nation was founded on rebellion against a foreign imperialist dictatorship, which despite it being our own kin (the British) at the time, we rightfully celebrate it to this day. Well, rightfully, except the part where we're everything we rebelled against. IT'S TOTAL SADISTIC HYPOCRISY.

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.

If anything, American Imperialism perpetrated in Eurasia has prompted Russia to get back in towards their old USSR ways (and CERTAINLY not the other way around).

How can you say it's not okay for them to be imperialist-like on their side of the planet, but it's totally okay for US to absolutely be total imperialists on their side of the planet?

How do you sleep at night knowing your position supports children in hot spots all across Eurasia suffering in every way from dying of starvation to being exploded by bombs into little pieces?

And if you're a liberal, how can you dare claim you have an ounce of genuine care for other cultures when you're propping up a US foreign policy that does every evil trick in the book to destabilize cultures across the globe? Even if you're not a liberal, how can you support American Imperialism and then claim you have an ounce of humanity in your heart?

You wanna know what this obsession with Russia is? It's all just scapegoating from having to look yourselves in the mirror. This has been my position for over a decade since I woke up, and during the Bush years the Republican's labeled me a liberal for it, and now the Democrat's label me a conservative for it. This collective amnesia is totally mind blowing for me.

And another thing I know for sure is, any of you liberals who support American Imperialism I swear I better not see one of you ever harp this board again talking about supporting cultural diversity or anything else along those lines. Either you're into cultural diversity & humanity, or you're a sadistic imperialist. YOU CANNOT BE BOTH!

I think perhaps our nation is showing its weakness. From social problems to a weak military (even though we spend a fortune), public political thrashing about, lack of strong leadership (Trump is actually a sign that we have been lacking strong leadership, and will continue to do so), the western financial system is proven to be weak, though more in europe than here, our reaponse to terrorists is weak, cant even call them terrorists, our media is so weak it doesnt bother with checking sources and has become mostly propaganda. Even our saber rattling at russia screams weakness.

Our country is weak, at least compared to what it has been. Weve been worn down by so many different forces that weve become frayed and divided. Corrupt. Entitled. Weak.

There is still plenty of good and strength here, but we better figure some things out, and hope for some strong, enlightened leadership in the coming years.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: banjobrain

As an American, I cant understand how anybody could rationalize the perpetual state of tyrannical global imperialism that the US has been perpetrating against essentially the entire planet for what's getting towards being an entire century now.

How our nation was founded on rebellion against a foreign imperialist dictatorship, which despite it being our own kin (the British) at the time, we rightfully celebrate it to this day. Well, rightfully, except the part where we're everything we rebelled against. IT'S TOTAL SADISTIC HYPOCRISY.

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.

If anything, American Imperialism perpetrated in Eurasia has prompted Russia to get back in towards their old USSR ways (and CERTAINLY not the other way around).

How can you say it's not okay for them to be imperialist-like on their side of the planet, but it's totally okay for US to absolutely be total imperialists on their side of the planet?

How do you sleep at night knowing your position supports children in hot spots all across Eurasia suffering in every way from dying of starvation to being exploding to little pieces?

And if you're a liberal, how can you dare claim you have an ounce of genuine care for other cultures when you're propping up a US foreign policy that does every evil trick int eh book to destabilize cultures across the globe?

I am not even sure how to answer your post to be honest.

I am just posting my observations in the current situations, not sharing my thoughts on the imperialistic history of America.

If I had my way, this country would be changed dramatically and geared as bottom up society where the people's well being secured the riches for the well to do, not the other way around.

Clearly there is a lot you don't understand.

First of all we do not need middle eastern oil! The U.S. has the largest oil reserves in the world! The only reason we are in the middle east is for control.

If you look at that Clintons for instance they have strong ties to Saudi Arabia if you follow the money they contributed nearly 20 percent of her campaign funds. So there is her reason to try to keep the Saudi's in control of middle eastern oil. None of this is for the betterment of the U.S. it is only to line their pockets.

If you look at what we have done in the middle east it is down right sickening. We have over thrown leaders not for the betterment of the people in those countries, but once again to line our own pockets.

In Libya do you think they are better off now with out Gadhafi? We took out Gadhafi because he wanted to sell his oil for gold. He should be able to sell his oil for whatever currency he wanted to, but no we had him killed.

The same thing happened in Iraq Saddam wanted euro's for his oil. Once again we had him killed. Should he not be able to choose whatever currency he wanted?

The same with Mubarak in Egypt he wanted his payment in gold-backed dinars an African gold currency. Once again shouldn't he be able to choose what currency to exchange for his oil.

Ask yourself this. Are any of these countries any better off now than they were before? If you ask the people that live there they will tell you no they are not.

We are not making the world a better place. Our government is the biggest dictatorship in the world. Demanding that everyone play by their rules or they will drone them.

Do you think Syria is better off now since we backed the rebel fighting against the Assad regime. Even though those same rebels are isis. Ya I guess it is okay to deal with terrorists as long as they are furthering our agenda.

I guess you could say that we are in a proxy war right now, but it is not against Russia.

The biggest war we are in right now is against unelected factions within the U.S. government who wish to remain in control. Trump is a threat to that control! That is why you see all of these bogus stories coming out from the C.I.A., the F.B.I. , the D.O.J., And lets not forget the M.S.M. No proof of anything only unsubstantiated rumors.

From the very beginning of the Trump campaign he has been attacked by the left by the right by the Obama administration and by the media.

Just so you know the dollar is worthless Obama made sure of that. If I could get my paycheck in silver and gold I would. It makes me wonder if they would drone me too.

a reply to: banjobrain

I added a bit at the end of it, bolded.

What's going on over there with US vs. Russia, and over here the propaganda war, its EVERYTHING to do with American Imperialism. And since anything resembling an acknowledgement of that was missing in your OP etc, that's how I could instantly tell you were just speaking from the impression of reality that we've ALL been indoctrinated with by the MSM and the Republicans and the Democrat's (i.e. parroting establishment propaganda). This is what the REAL "Fake News" (the MSM) has done to US. I blame them more for it than the politicians, actually, because it's their job to keep them honest.

a reply to: banjobrain

Seems fair enough from a psychological standpoint... But the best chess players know that psychology is for the observers. Across the board, there is nothing but the imposition of will, which requires only to play the best move, not the most psychological move.

If a player cannot find the best move, then traps can be set up. If you're worried about psychology, and it turns out that is how they are playing, then that means that either both sides believe the other to have the advantage, or the observers are paying too much attention to the players' reactions and not enough attention to the position; thereby missing all of the information that is truly pertinent to the state of the game.

If you've ever watched chess commentary, even chess masters that are commentators make these mistakes as observers, but do not make them as much when sitting at the board, despite the fact that they sometimes find better moves away from the board!

It's a more emotional experience to watch a battle with expectation than it is to fight a battle without expectation. In order to win at chess, you must calculate without expectation.

The way you are talking, the players will soon call a draw prematurely, which some will deem as wise ,and others, yet knowing, will recognize as oddly beneficial to both parties. When someone offers a draw, you shouldn't accept immediately. You should ask yourself why they think you are winning, because they just admitted to being in a losing position - unless it's a boring and obvious endgame draw, of course. But we're not in endgame and there is nothing obvious about this situation. Or else, would there be much discussion?

Hmm.

The real trouble could be that too many observers falsely imagine that they are one of the players at the board.

a reply to: pirhanna

Please stop referring to your country as weak. That's just bad, always a bad idea. Not to mention, this country is not weak.

Think of the U.S. as a medicated Heavyweight Boxer in a hospital bed. He's confused, but still, don't try to pick a fight with the man. The fact that he's confused means he's less likely to hold back, and he can't feel pain as close as he normally would right now. He'll be back in the ring soon, just give it a couple of days longer and the tumor will finally be removed from his brain.

Great post. Very plausible and probable hypothesis. If we do not become Russia's ally, China will eventually take over the world.

a reply to: banjobrain

Obama would not be the person to explain any of this, since the Syria issue is only PART of the ongoing proxy war that the entire War on Terror represents, an edifice which has its origins, probably PREVIOUS to the Bush era beginning of our understanding of what the War on Terror was about.

The big problem with dealing with and discussing these things, is that the collective memory of the geopolitical situation in a given year is just not granular enough. Successive Presidents of the United States, and Prime Ministers of the UK, not to mention other Western players, have presided over periods of intense meddling in the affairs of nations not their own FOR DECADES. Leaders assassinated, economies deliberately sabotaged, cartels literally created from the ground up by agents of the capitalist West, in places south of the US/Mexico border, in the Middle East and North Africa, and in Asia as well. Entire regions of the globe, destabilised, fractured and oppressed, by factions in support of capitalist endeavours. Anywhere a flourishing, rather than failing socialism came about, there would be a high level death, or an economic disaster with an artificial origin. Anywhere someone was throwing off the standard economic model and had a hope in hell of building something that would work, independent of trade groups, financial markets and what we know as the way of things today, someone, somewhere, would stifle it, crush it, move things around behind the scenes that would cause it to fail artificially.

Sometimes these things would happen because the existence of a functional nation independent of the Western standard of economics would be a threat to global trade and the people who benefit most from it, but often it would happen because the nation or faction in power in that place was friendly with, or operating with the assistance of Russia. Russia played these games as well, involving themselves in places they had no business being, like Afghanistan for example, and other places besides. Over successive decades, the tactic of destroying that which cannot be controlled has worked absolute wonders, the methodology creates enemies that we in the powerful, capitalist nations are lead to believe are a threat to us, when they are controlled opposition and nothing more. From some of the most hideous narco-terrorists in history, to the current batch of crazed jihadists, this fundamental approach to controlling the evolutionary process of nations, foreign affairs, of politics in general, and even thought itself, has been proven to work so effectively, so utterly efficiently, that it has not yet been abandoned.

It is so effective for relatively simple reasons. While a situation is developing, the truth is hidden. While it is ongoing, the truth is spun. When it is over, it is explained away, plausible deniability used to its fullest extent, and there is one other factor that makes this approach so effective. It is the same factor that makes it so insidious.

The function of these tactics relies on a feature of social dynamics, of the group mind, of cultural identity, that feature being, the unwillingness of a given percentage of a population, to involve themselves in affairs beyond their daily lives. If you can provide a situation for enough of your people, which gives them a certain measure of stability, security, or indeed comfort, then they will have a tendency to believe only the best of their government, that their government, regardless of who is in charge, or what is happening in the world, MUST be good, MUST be benevolent, decent, fair, just, even kind. It is hard, beyond hard for people who are enjoying the benefits of a societies success, to believe on a fundamental level, that this success is based on anything other than decent, wholesome, inherently good foundations. That seems naive to some, but what you have to understand about this, is that these mental processes are not even conscious processes. They are unconscious processes that the minds of many, MANY people, do every day, to ensure that their minds are not so occupied by concerns, that they fail to be able to function their daily lives, or rather, to ensure that they are only ever troubled by the things of their daily lives.

Even those whose lives are, by some standards, very hard indeed, have been known to have this veil firmly about their eyes. The programming works, the system functions, at many levels of society, amongst both the highly educated, and the intellectually vacant. It IS easier to resist if one has a certain level of intelligence, but that in and of itself is no protection from the program that is being run on the rest of society.

For whatever reason, probably a combination of the lessons I have learned about history, but also personal experiences and the fact that I am probably neuro-atypical to a degree, I am not affected by this grand delusion, but the fun does not stop there. There are people in the West who KNOW how broken the system is. Most of us, right here on this site, know to varying degrees, how far down the rot goes, what it has been responsible for over the years, how much of our current way of life has been made possible by this disgusting cycle, the parlour trick that has been played on us. But we also know that without majority awareness, without the majority being unprepared to put up with it anymore, without the majority being sick of having their nations name dishonoured by the behaviour of our leaders and the powerful financial entities which own them, without the majority support required to prevent it, there is nothing we can do, except vote in elections which feature two glove puppets, attached by hands to the same body, where yet ANOTHER game is played to make us believe that there is a fundamental difference between two near identical figureheads.

It has to stop, but there are no new ideas of how to prevent it continuing. The reason? Because every functional and reasonable course of action depends on having majority support, because the people can only wield what little power remains to them if they do so together, and yet every internal operation of government seeks to steal harmony, insert chaos and division, prevent unity and by so doing steal the only power that the people have to affect positive change.

If we were to start a new party to affect change, it would need majority support.

If we were to start civil unrest until our demands for change were met, it would need majority support or be a failure.

If we were to start an armed revolution in any place, it would need to have majority support.

All the techniques we could use to bring about change that means something in our nations, require majority support in order to work, and the majority cannot be secured, because the majority of people are allowing themselves to be divided against one another, refuse to accept on a conscious OR unconscious level that their government is not acting in their best interests, because even those who have been used to perform the least noble actions that government has undertaken, will swear blind that they did what they did for the right reasons. The small few who can believe otherwise, are pariah in the eyes of the rest. In short, things look bleak for those who value truth.

Let me get this straight, OPs main concern is that Trump may stray from the status quo? That Trump might disengage from the conquests in the Middle East, and work towards a partnership with Russia?

I am curious, what are American interests? Do those interests include you and me? Do those interests benefit us in anyway, or corporate profits?

Trump's comments suggest he is more Russia-friendly, a US-Russia alliance would isolate China, who is by far the greater threat to both nations.

The experts had warned about the Middle East, a prolonged and protracted war, a quagmire. If America is going to topple nations to steal their resources, it's better to be open and honest about it with the American public; don't you think?

We'll know what Trump is based on which country we go to war with next. That's the only guarantee we have from new presidents in the US, we will be going to war with another country.

Sorry, you can't blame the division on Trump supporters.
The majority of the country has been mind controlled for some time. All you have to do is look at how pop culture treats Obama as some sort of king. Talk about being on a road to disaster. His owners goals are exactly the end of a sovereign US. I don't know how many times this has to be stressed.
We had no choice to vote Trump because the whole western world wanted us to elect another globalist. We couldn't do it.

Trump has been the only one talking about China's currency.
The only one talking about creating jobs.
According to Hillary there's nothing wrong in America. It's all good.
We see different.
The left has lost its mind.
Many on the right are on their side. These are no patriots.

This whole hacking thing is pathetic.
Isn't it China that supposedly has an army of hackers?
We get hacked all the time.
We hack all the time

There has always been spies on all sides. So why all this hostility towards Russia?
Because they detracted our plans in Syria?

They needed something on Trump besides the usual dirt since he never held office and doesn't care about the petty usual accusations, they needed something else.
Russia is an old enemy.
There you go.
Here we are.

Looks like Russia's taking a page from our own playbook on this one.
Anyone heard of Leo Wanta? He was a CIA agent who was involved in destabilizing the USSR economy. It looks like they're using the same tactics on a greater scale nowadays. There was many reasons for the USSR's collapse, but that 1 man did a lot of damage.
I would also refer to, "The foundation of Geopolitics".
It was written in 1997, and it lists many plans that would need to be put in place for Russia to acquire global dominance. Lets just say with the current global situations, I dont believe they are all coincidental. For example for the US it states,

In the United States:

Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[1]

Turkey:
Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.[1]

UK:
The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.[1]

China: (although it seems contrary to the current situation, this would be the Chess game)
China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled". Dugin suggests that Russia start by taking Tibet-Xinjiang-Mongolia-Manchuria as a security belt.[2] Russia should offer China help "in a southern direction – Indochina (except Vietnam), the Philippines, Indonesia, Australia" as geopolitical compensation.[1]

(From The Foundation of Geopolitics)

Theres many more tactics that all seem to be happening right now that directly corrolate with this paper wrtten 20 years ago!!!
IMO the OP is 100% right. And Russia moved its first chest piece in 1997.
en.m.wikipedia.org...
This just a short summary of the topics. A search of the title will give you a few .pdf links.

originally posted by: GodEmperor
Let me get this straight, OPs main concern is that Trump may stray from the status quo? That Trump might disengage from the conquests in the Middle East, and work towards a partnership with Russia?

I am curious, what are American interests? Do those interests include you and me? Do those interests benefit us in anyway, or corporate profits?

Trump's comments suggest he is more Russia-friendly, a US-Russia alliance would isolate China, who is by far the greater threat to both nations.

The experts had warned about the Middle East, a prolonged and protracted war, a quagmire. If America is going to topple nations to steal their resources, it's better to be open and honest about it with the American public; don't you think?

We'll know what Trump is based on which country we go to war with next. That's the only guarantee we have from new presidents in the US, we will be going to war with another country.

I know my OP looks chaotic, it was late, but I don't think you read it because you don't seem to understand what I said in the most basic terms. And again, you are putting words in my mouth, you more so than other people, maybe you don't realize how much you do that so I am letting you know.

I am fine with Trump disengaging in the ME provided he actually understands that he needs to have a plan for the dollar before he walks away from it.

As far as China, I posted a linked regarding plans to pipe oil from Russia directly to China, China being the larger emerging economy in the world and potentially the largest market.

originally posted by: VinylTyrant
Sorry, you can't blame the division on Trump supporters.
The majority of the country has been mind controlled for some time. All you have to do is look at how pop culture treats Obama as some sort of king. Talk about being on a road to disaster. His owners goals are exactly the end of a sovereign US. I don't know how many times this has to be stressed.
We had no choice to vote Trump because the whole western world wanted us to elect another globalist. We couldn't do it.

Well part of the reason is Obama is a likable person (providing the observer is not political)
I don't know how Obama is ending sovereign US, he sure is a gambler waiting until the last 6 days to come for your guns and
put us in FEMA camps. As far as Trump, he IS a globalist. He has businesses in nearly 1/5 of countries in the world, he makes his products abroad in the very countries he rails on about. He is a great salesman in that he has gotten all of you to look past the globalist nature of his empire though. In fact, business for business he is the most globalist president, I cannot think of a president with more global ties and holdings can you?

Trump has been the only one talking about China's currency.
The only one talking about creating jobs.
According to Hillary there's nothing wrong in America. It's all good.
We see different.
The left has lost its mind.
Many on the right are on their side. These are no patriots.

That is not correct, Obama even created a TV special to talk jobs, it's just you guys hate him so much you
didn't notice or care. He is literally talking about jobs and calling it "the most important issue of our era", quote.

abcnews.go.com...

Bernie has too, talks about "these trade agreements have been a disaster for our middle class"


Even Clinton
, hiss boo bring the pyre lol

wtkr.com...

This whole hacking thing is pathetic.
Isn't it China that supposedly has an army of hackers?
We get hacked all the time.
We hack all the time

Trump with Jack Ma (Chinese Billionaire) who's company is constantly steeling American intellectual property, via hacking
and on Jack's Amazon like marketplace, Alibaba where they take American products, manufacture them regardless of patenting and undercut the American products they stole. Maybe it is good Trump is talking to him since it is good to reach out to opponents, but never the less, Ma is the hacker army you are talking about in the flesh.

www.c-span.org.../presidentelect-donald-trump-jack-ma-speak-reporters-trump-tower

There has always been spies on all sides. So why all this hostility towards Russia?
Because they detracted our plans in Syria?

They needed something on Trump besides the usual dirt since he never held office and doesn't care about the petty usual accusations, they needed something else.
Russia is an old enemy.
There you go.
Here we are.

Well contrarily, why are American's so big on Russia right now? I mean the exact same people who were decrying the
secret socialisms of Oabamabumbobummer are now fine and very open with an actual KGB trained regime. You must admit
that is a big reversal.

originally posted by: Brian4real
Looks like Russia's taking a page from our own playbook on this one.
Anyone heard of Leo Wanta? He was a CIA agent who was involved in destabilizing the USSR economy. It looks like they're using the same tactics on a greater scale nowadays. There was many reasons for the USSR's collapse, but that 1 man did a lot of damage.
I would also refer to, "The foundation of Geopolitics".
It was written in 1997, and it lists many plans that would need to be put in place for Russia to acquire global dominance. Lets just say with the current global situations, I dont believe they are all coincidental. For example for the US it states,

In the United States:

Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[1]

Turkey:
Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.[1]

UK:
The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.[1]

China: (although it seems contrary to the current situation, this would be the Chess game)
China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled". Dugin suggests that Russia start by taking Tibet-Xinjiang-Mongolia-Manchuria as a security belt.[2] Russia should offer China help "in a southern direction – Indochina (except Vietnam), the Philippines, Indonesia, Australia" as geopolitical compensation.[1]

(From The Foundation of Geopolitics)

Theres many more tactics that all seem to be happening right now that directly corrolate with this paper wrtten 20 years ago!!!
IMO the OP is 100% right. And Russia moved its first chest piece in 1997.
en.m.wikipedia.org...
This just a short summary of the topics. A search of the title will give you a few .pdf links.

Cool. (well not for us, but great information and I am glad someone thinks I am not in the weeds here)

I think too Russia or any country that wants to usurp the US can see that the way we conduct our politics is the
best and easiest way to destroy our country. We are so masterful with the high impact, low information, one day news cycle
that it keeps us absolutely blind and at each-others throats. I mean people here fight about contrived outrage all the time to the point where the real stuff cannot even be introduced, and I think Russia or any nation could use this predictable cycle
to infiltrate.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: TrueBrit

Very well said, excellent.

I don't think it is possible to create this party in America, I genuinely and wholly think the leader would be murdered
very quickly.

a reply to: banjobrain

My response is in your other thread.

originally posted by: GodEmperor
a reply to: banjobrain

My response is in your other thread.

Well I don't think it matters, and I think it is pointless to to discuss this with many of you.

I hope you remember this, what I said in the future when the bad times come.

Enjoy

originally posted by: banjobrain

originally posted by: VinylTyrant
Sorry, you can't blame the division on Trump supporters.
The majority of the country has been mind controlled for some time. All you have to do is look at how pop culture treats Obama as some sort of king. Talk about being on a road to disaster. His owners goals are exactly the end of a sovereign US. I don't know how many times this has to be stressed.
We had no choice to vote Trump because the whole western world wanted us to elect another globalist. We couldn't do it.

Well part of the reason is Obama is a likable person (providing the observer is not political)
I don't know how Obama is ending sovereign US, he sure is a gambler waiting until the last 6 days to come for your guns and
put us in FEMA camps. As far as Trump, he IS a globalist. He has businesses in nearly 1/5 of countries in the world, he makes his products abroad in the very countries he rails on about. He is a great salesman in that he has gotten all of you to look past the globalist nature of his empire though. In fact, business for business he is the most globalist president, I cannot think of a president with more global ties and holdings can you?

Trump has been the only one talking about China's currency.
The only one talking about creating jobs.
According to Hillary there's nothing wrong in America. It's all good.
We see different.
The left has lost its mind.
Many on the right are on their side. These are no patriots.

That is not correct, Obama even created a TV special to talk jobs, it's just you guys hate him so much you
didn't notice or care. He is literally talking about jobs and calling it "the most important issue of our era", quote.

abcnews.go.com...

Bernie has too, talks about "these trade agreements have been a disaster for our middle class"

Even Clinton
, hiss boo bring the pyre lol

wtkr.com...

This whole hacking thing is pathetic.
Isn't it China that supposedly has an army of hackers?
We get hacked all the time.
We hack all the time

Trump with Jack Ma (Chinese Billionaire) who's company is constantly steeling American intellectual property, via hacking
and on Jack's Amazon like marketplace, Alibaba where they take American products, manufacture them regardless of patenting and undercut the American products they stole. Maybe it is good Trump is talking to him since it is good to reach out to opponents, but never the less, Ma is the hacker army you are talking about in the flesh.

www.c-span.org.../presidentelect-donald-trump-jack-ma-speak-reporters-trump-tower

There has always been spies on all sides. So why all this hostility towards Russia?
Because they detracted our plans in Syria?

They needed something on Trump besides the usual dirt since he never held office and doesn't care about the petty usual accusations, they needed something else.
Russia is an old enemy.
There you go.
Here we are.

Well contrarily, why are American's so big on Russia right now? I mean the exact same people who were decrying the
secret socialisms of Oabamabumbobummer are now fine and very open with an actual KGB trained regime. You must admit
that is a big reversal.

yeah, Clinton and Obama were all about strengthening the middle class. I must've been in a 8 year coma.

Americans are big on Russia because the media tells them to, otherwise they would never be spoken about. I mean, you have to have some excuse as to why they lost so bad.

Kgb trained regime? Lets just take a breather here before we explode from msm propaganda smoke and mirrors.

News flash: Hollywood and poiticians used to love Trump not too long ago.
Now that he's in charge and not following the script, he's the antichrist.

People will never stop being pathetic.
Talk to me a year from now. If the US is not on a better path and is bowing to Russia's every whim, I will surely admit I was wrong and you nailed it. Somehow, I highly doubt it.

Btw, I'm no republican.

a reply to: banjobrain

Obama being a likeable person, speak for yourself.