reply to post by junglejake
Yes. I do.
There's a good treatment of tongues on this FR thread:
I don't know that I have a lot to add . . . maybe I could identify the post numbers on that thread which discuss tongues the most . . .
post 96, post 115:
I’m a bit rushed to respond well to this post.
Some such is nonsense and some such is not.
Many folks resist flowing in tongues because they refuse to give up any degree of !!!!CONTROL!!!!
and they refuse to risk looking or sounding foolish.
I believe tongues is a great humbler and that
THAT is one of the objectives from God’s perspective.
I just usually encourage folks to pray in a sequence of sounds not part of any language they know.
The Lord made clear to me years ago that it is a walk of faith as well as the rest of Christian life.
Usually, the initial “Holy Spirit electric goose bumps” subside eventually. Then it is a walk of faith.
The ‘known language’ issue is a . . . straw dog in most respects.
1. When a Christian learns to, IN FAITH, TRUST that Holy Spirit is putting HIS MEANING to the strange sequence of sounds in the perfect prayer to The
Father, it is a great benefit as Scripture indicates. Praying in Holy Spirit builds up our spirit, strengthens our walk with God.
2. The functional, practical difference at the level of the tongues speaker is essentially irrelevant. It is indistinguishable for a
non-super-linguist tongues speaker to discrimminate between an unknown “heavenly language” vs a non personally known earthly language . . . or
maybe, occasionally, even vs human gibberish, to some degree.
3. However, whether children or adults manufacture a deliberate sequence of gibberish sounds as a game or exercise in gibberish, experienced tongues
speakers and linguists can usually tell the difference.
4. There is some research indicating that some folks learn to mimic fairly average styles of tongues speaking.
5. I don’t find that to NECESSARILY be any big deal.
6. Yes, it is . . . more dramatic and wonderful when Holy Spirit descends on a person in a dramatically powerful and miraculous electric-goose bump
filled EXPERIENCE where HE seems to flood in with great power, might, fervency, intensity etc.
7. For His own reasons, HE does not always do things that way. For many, HE SEEMS to insist that the individual walk by faith virtually from the
beginning. That is, without a lot of EXPERENTIAL SENSATIONS and proofs of His presence and invovlement.
8. For others, there may be initial “HOLY SPIRIT GOOSE BUMPS” laden experiential phenomena which soon fade and do not follow the speaking in
tongues exercise persistently over a long time. Then the person walks by faith.
9. WE KNOW THAT WITHOUT FAITH, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD IN THIS OR ANYTHING ELSE.
10. This was more the case for me. Thus, when God queried me at my asking him about the lack of experiential sensations—was I just making up the
sounds myself without any Holy Spirit involvement, He indicated that I had to walk by faith and TRUST HOLY SPIRIT TO PUT HOLY SPIRIT’S MEANING TO
THE SOUNDS IN THE PERFECT PRAYER TO THE FATHER . . . as Scripture more or less discusses.
11. A few weeks ago, I felt an urging in my spirit to pray for the Pastor after service. There was a lot of folks praying for one another in a long
after service time of intense praying at the altar. I asked a black Sister who’s in charge of prayer efforts in our congregation to join me and she
readily agreed but was mostly silent. I didn’t know how or what to pray and felt to just begin praying in tongues.
12. Normally, for many years, my tongues praying, for all intents and purposes could be construed as something I initiate [Scripture indicates the
Spirit is subject to the individual in such matters], generating the sounds in whatever manner seems to occur and flow. Most of the time, the sequence
of sounds if more or less familiar and common to me.
13. However, on this occasion, Holy Spirit rose up within me in great intensity and fierceness that almost shocked me. There was a speed and intensity
of flow that I haven’t felt for years. And, while I usually pray quite softly in tongues, I’m sure I could be heard quite clearly and loudly all
over the large room. I had some impressions as this was going on but I couldn’t say emphatically what specific things were being prayed. My general
sense was that there was some sort of strengthening, maybe even commissioning, imparting, anointing that was going on for future ministry on
14. Could I have started and stopped the flow at any time? Certainly. I certainly didn’t stop breathing! I could have stopped at any point and
certainly at breathing points. Holy Spirit is a gentleman. When we say we give up control, it’s a very relative thing. Virtually never will Holy
Spirit take unfettered control and force an individual’s muscles to work strictly and totally under Holy Spirit’s control. The practical result
may be AS THOUGH HE DID because no such individual person would DARE TO HINDER Holy Spirit’s flow—it’s a most wonderful experience and feeling
to cooperate at such times. However, the individual is still a sovereign individual in terms of his own body and faculties. It’s just that when we
seek to be totally yielded to Holy Spirit and He obliges—it’s too wonderful to even imagine to hinder HIM in ANY way. We are too thrilled to go
along for the ride.
15. Did I deliberately change the language I was praying in over Pastor? NOT AT ALL. It just FLOWED OUT DIFFERENTLY as Holy Spirit rose up with such
force and uniqueness from deep within me.
16. It was in light of such that my close friend Judy Carter of the Pacific Northwest was praying in tonuges at the close of 3 different ministry
sessions with 3 different tribes over a period of a week or 2 on a tour of such tribes. In each of the 3 cases, after she finished praying amidst the
group praying at the close of the meetings, an older elder of each tribe came up to her and asked her where she had learned the older more eloquent
form of their language.
17. She had not, at all. She had no clue that’s what she was praying in. She just assumed she was praying ‘in a heavenly language’ to God alone.
Yet in each case in each tribe she had been praying a basic summary of the Gospel story in the older, almost extinct forms of the tribal languages.
18. Of course she was thrilled and her ministry and walk with the Lord was greatly affirmed.
19. I still encourage anyone who is a bonafide Christian, confessed up, repented up, prayed up etc. to just pray in any sequence of sounds that they
did not learn as a part of any known language and TRUST BY FAITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVEY HIS MEANING attached to those sounds—to The Father. It
doesn’t really have to be any more complicated than that.
20. Sure, teaching children to say glory glory glory etc. can end up hokey and falling flat. IT CAN ALSO LEAD THE CHILDREN OR ANYONE ELSE TO RELEASE
ENOUGH DEATH GRIP CONTROL to allow Holy Spirit to move in and facilitate a new way of powerfully prayin IN HOLY SPIRIT’S LANGUAGE AND MEANING. Holy
Spirit will not in a strong armed sort of way FORCE one’s muscles to move in various specific ways to make specific sounds. However, when one LEARNS
to be a bit ‘looser’ in terms of making sounds, Holy Spirit has a freer authority and ‘respectfully easier’ time of facilitating our praying
21. I realize that some folks’ theology and experiences do not allow for the realities I’ve described above. Tough tacos. At this point, I don’t
give a flying rip. They can go suck rocks. I know what I know and have experienced repeatedly as real.
22. I know that God has facilitated many powerful insights in counseling as well as other ministry from my just praying quietly in tongues for a few
moments until insight came or healing came or whatever else God wanted to do manifested. I’m not about to give that up. I’d be a fool to do so.
23. As has been wisely said . . . the one without and EXPERIENCE merely has an argument.
24. There used to be a lot of noise about naysayers re Pentecostal stuff that THE NAYSAYERS had a BIBLICAL *NOT* EXPERIENCED BASED
25. What a pile of barnyard dusty horse . . . hair.
26. NO ONE can have any AWARENESS THAT THE BIBLE EXISTS, MUCH LESS WHAT IS IN THE BIBLE, MUCH MUCH LESS THE POWER OF THE WORD OF GOD
. . . APART FROM
. . . . . . . . . . . AN EXPERIENCE . . . . .
OF THE WORD OF GOD.
What a looney straw dog such assertions were and are.
27. All of such above is NOT THAT DIFFERENT AT ALL FROM A COMMON EXPERIENCE OF VIRTUALLY EVERY AUTHENTIC CHRISTIAN I’VE EVER KNOWN:
28. Every such Christian I’ve ever known has had repeated EXPERIENCES where they’ve been deeply burdened for days or weeks . . . over a very
serious matter—job, health, deadly disease, moving, whatever . . . and suddenly, during one of their normal Bible reading times, a verse or phrase
in a verse will “LEAP OFF THE PAGE” with great emotional intensity as God’s response to their travail, queries, concerns.
29. Speaking/praying in tongues is not significantly different from that sort of experience.
Post #125, 166, 170, 195, 208, 218, 236:
GOD ALMIGHTY seeks our INVITATION—our SEEKING HIM—our COOPERATING WITH HIM.
It is demonic forces which strong arm, force themselves, force individuals they are in possession of, etc.
Holy Spirit is entirely otherwise.
IT IS A MUTUAL DANCE.
YES, in a VERY REAL sense, HE LEADS. But if and when the human individual wants to sit down, pause, catch a breath . . . Holy Spirit waits.
Virtually always, He is gentle in a list of ways.
Occasionally, He can be quite forceful and dramatic if the human in the dance is so cooperative and Holy Spirit’s wisdom decrees it.
I really get a kick out of Believers who are characteristically cautious, meek, quiet, etc. and on occasion, Holy Spirit will flow through them with
such force that they are suddenly like Richard the Lion Hearted chasing evil spirits or cruddy human stuff for removal with great fierceness and
boldness IN THE LORD’s SPIRIT.
Or, vice versa, some brash, bold, cowpie kicking cowboy becomes super gentle in ministering to a child or elderly lady.
Holy Spirit is the ULTIMATE TRANSFORMER yet He respects the personality God created in each individual and seeks to enhance and multiply what God is
birthing with each individual.
As Scripture says, it is not yet evident what we shall be. Yet Holy Spirit knows and is working toward that awesome goal in each dance in this boot
And, as in Scripture’s scribes, the human’s personality involved can show through.
Pentecostals are exceedingly human as TV obviously shows. And sometimes they use intemperate inaccurate language that implies or even says that they
were controlled in some heavy handed fashion. And they may personally even feel that was the case in a given situation. It’s just not true. Holy
Spirit just doesn’t operate that way.
He LEADS the dance. He’s not the gestapo.
236 posted on Thursday, November 25, 2010 8:06:53 AM by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord
Posts # 237, 250, 261 & 268 on the above FR thread.