U.S. Justice Department blasts Chicago police over excessive force

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: xuenchen

I don't see the problem with excessive force when you're the guy with a target on your back in a city full of thugs that would rather kill you than be respectful of your law and order.

Exactly. Why go after those in Law Enforcement. Go after those who create the laws and sentence you to the criminal factory we call our prison system.

The reason the bad LEO's get a light sentence or no sentence at all is because of the judges and politicians who depend on being protected by them!

What a freakin mess!

You go after law enforcement because they are unequivocally part of the problem in Chicago with a long history of violence and corruption. I would say the police, mayors office, and schools are the biggest problems in Chicago.

You are fooling yourself and lack a historical context if you think Chicago police are not an issue. How do you think the gangs and drugs stay on the streets? Bribes.

Whole departments have been questioned. Hell a high level officer had a massive jewel theft operation not long ago.

Does this explain why we never hear Obama or his administration discuss the crime in his home town? Think he's involved in all that?

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: xuenchen

I don't see the problem with excessive force when you're the guy with a target on your back in a city full of thugs that would rather kill you than be respectful of your law and order.

Exactly. Why go after those in Law Enforcement. Go after those who create the laws and sentence you to the criminal factory we call our prison system.

The reason the bad LEO's get a light sentence or no sentence at all is because of the judges and politicians who depend on being protected by them!

What a freakin mess!

You go after law enforcement because they are unequivocally part of the problem in Chicago with a long history of violence and corruption. I would say the police, mayors office, and schools are the biggest problems in Chicago.

You are fooling yourself and lack a historical context if you think Chicago police are not an issue. How do you think the gangs and drugs stay on the streets? Bribes.

Whole departments have been questioned. Hell a high level officer had a massive jewel theft operation not long ago.

No wonder we can't cure cancer! Treat the symptom instead of the actual disease?

A report in 2015 said Chicago loses about 500-1bil in revanue from corruption alone.

a reply to: LSU0408

I am sure he is. As was GWB admin, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon.

Or did those guys solve the problems?

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU0408

LA and NY are nothing like Chicago or detroit.

It goes way beyond partisan politics.


Both parties have plenty of history of corruption. But go ahead and keep drinking the Kool aid, it's always the other guys fault right?

I forgot about Detroit... I don't have to drink the kool-aid, man, it's as plain as day what colors these cities are on the political spectrum. That wasn't meant to spark an argument, it's a fact. Same as New Orleans or any huge city. All you have to do is look at the highest crime cities and then take a look at the majority of their politicians.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU0408

I am sure he is. As was GWB admin, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon.

Or did those guys solve the problems?

There you go again, I'm not trying to spark a political argument. Of all the presidents we've had, Obama is the one who could have reached out to those impoverished minority communities and had a better chance of fixing them than any of the white people we've elected. Wouldn't you agree with that?

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: xuenchen

I don't see the problem with excessive force when you're the guy with a target on your back in a city full of thugs that would rather kill you than be respectful of your law and order.

That is easy to say unless you are walking down a street in Chicago just minding your own business and you reach into your jacket for your phone as a police officer drives by and they open fire thinking you are pulling a gun since they have that target on their backs, as you mention..

I haven't heard of a scenario like that yet.

But when people are advocating and even encouraging police to use excessive force, the potential for that scenario to happen is much greater. That can't be good.

a reply to: LSU0408

And police forces.

It goes way beyond that though.

The money is shared.

It takes an awful lot of bribing and turning backs to get the amount of drugs on the streets we have.

Reagan for instance did nothing to stop drugs but he did increase the value. Making the drug dealers more money. Drug dealers pay off police, dea, fbi, etc..

Police are just a much the problem as the citizens in Chicago.

And no they don't get a pass because their job is hard. They have terrible unions like teachers who allow all the bad apples to sTay on the force. I teach wrestling with a Leo who can't stand 30 percent of the slobs on the force. He literally said he would do everything in his power to avoid working with some.

Cops are not the only problem and they are more a symptom at the patrol level, but they need better standards and far better training in possibly a majority of the countries cities also better pay to avoid the desperate bribe taking by guys who may be decent but just can't survive off the salary.

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU0408

I am sure he is. As was GWB admin, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon.

Or did those guys solve the problems?

There you go again, I'm not trying to spark a political argument. Of all the presidents we've had, Obama is the one who could have reached out to those impoverished minority communities and had a better chance of fixing them than any of the white people we've elected. Wouldn't you agree with that?

I would definitely agree and it is the thing most disappointing about him

But maybe it's over the president's head since it never gets fixed.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: xuenchen

I don't see the problem with excessive force when you're the guy with a target on your back in a city full of thugs that would rather kill you than be respectful of your law and order.

That is easy to say unless you are walking down a street in Chicago just minding your own business and you reach into your jacket for your phone as a police officer drives by and they open fire thinking you are pulling a gun since they have that target on their backs, as you mention..

I haven't heard of a scenario like that yet.

But when people are advocating and even encouraging police to use excessive force, the potential for that scenario to happen is much greater. That can't be good.

No it can't. But we're not gonna see cops pull out and kill just because someone is reaching in their pocket. Though I wouldn't blame them for being jumpy these days. They're being shot and killed while sitting in their cars eating a sub or a donut and minding their business, doing what they're paid to do. Two of my kids wanted to be cops when they grew up and I told them hell no. Glad y'all wanna help the community but I won't let you be police unless this craziness settles down.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU0408

LA and NY are nothing like Chicago or detroit.

It goes way beyond partisan politics.


Both parties have plenty of history of corruption. But go ahead and keep drinking the Kool aid, it's always the other guys fault right?

That's hilarious, coming from the same member that just blamed law enforcement for the prevalence of thug culture.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU0408

And police forces.

It goes way beyond that though.

The money is shared.

It takes an awful lot of bribing and turning backs to get the amount of drugs on the streets we have.

Reagan for instance did nothing to stop drugs but he did increase the value. Making the drug dealers more money. Drug dealers pay off police, dea, fbi, etc..

Police are just a much the problem as the citizens in Chicago.

And no they don't get a pass because their job is hard. They have terrible unions like teachers who allow all the bad apples to sTay on the force. I teach wrestling with a Leo who can't stand 30 percent of the slobs on the force. He literally said he would do everything in his power to avoid working with some.

Cops are not the only problem and they are more a symptom at the patrol level, but they need better standards and far better training in possibly a majority of the countries cities also better pay to avoid the desperate bribe taking by guys who may be decent but just can't survive off the salary.

I'd be more inclined to say the brutality or what-have-you started in '96 when the Clinton's increased police forces to stop drugs and crime at the alarming rate it was growing. If what you've posted is true then it looks like things went south just like our "No Child Left Behind" program that Bush implemented. It was designed to give incentive to schools to reach out to minority children and help them learn, but after a while, the teachers grew corrupt and began to buck the system and give the kids passing grades because it was easier than spending time with them. As long as the grades were good, the funds kept coming. I'd like to see that reinvigorated so our schools take initiative in their teaching. Overall, it's demolished out education system. And that is also bad news in cities like Chicago, it all ties together.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU0408

LA and NY are nothing like Chicago or detroit.

It goes way beyond partisan politics.


Both parties have plenty of history of corruption. But go ahead and keep drinking the Kool aid, it's always the other guys fault right?

That's hilarious, coming from the same member that just blamed law enforcement for the prevalence of thug culture.

So how do the gangs keep deliveries going.

Have you read a single thing about the emense corruption of Chicago?

Including police helping rival gangs and all.

They certainly are part of the reason the thugs grew and we're not maintained to normal thug levels. As are their unions, teachers unions, terrible schools always on strike, and the mayors for a long time.

a reply to: LSU0408

Chicago has been violent since prohibition. Including the civil right Era, Democrat convention etc.

Seriously read some history. It's certainly worsened by lbj's war on poverty but it goes way beyond Democrat republican blaming.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU0408

I am sure he is. As was GWB admin, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon.

Or did those guys solve the problems?

There you go again, I'm not trying to spark a political argument. Of all the presidents we've had, Obama is the one who could have reached out to those impoverished minority communities and had a better chance of fixing them than any of the white people we've elected. Wouldn't you agree with that?

I would definitely agree and it is the thing most disappointing about him

But maybe it's over the president's head since it never gets fixed.

I mean, it could be, but we don't even have any records of him trying to reach out. And they still show up by the thousands to listen to him speak even though he got their votes twice and dropped them like piles of dirt. I feel sorry for them. I voted for Trump because I expect him to do most of what he said he'd do and if he doesn't follow through, I'm not gonna be cheering him on in 4 years when he runs for reelection. I'll be voting for the other Republican.

a reply to: luthier

I never said word one about CPD not being corrupt. Far from it in fact, since I used to live just outside the city and am well familiar with it. No need to make stuff up and then ask me to defend the ridiculous premise that you came up with.

But let's not talk about "drinking the kool-aid and blaming the other guy" in one comment and then turn around and blame the other guy in the next comment. CPD has a lot of corruption in it, but I'm more than happy to wager that the corruption doesn't rise to the level of forcing gangs to go out and kill each other, or forcing wannabe hoodrats to go out and kill their neighbors, or forcing thugs to go do a drive-by and pop 8 year old little girls.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LSU0408

Chicago has been violent since prohibition. Including the civil right Era, Democrat convention etc.

Seriously read some history. It's certainly worsened by lbj's war on poverty but it goes way beyond Democrat republican blaming.

Don't even get me started on LBJ... My post, however, was more in tune with people turning sloth (lazy) and complacent instead of reaching out to help because it was easier to keep the federal funds coming in.

a reply to: LSU0408

Trump picked Jeff Sessions who will prop up police and make the situation worse in my opinion. He doesn't have the courge or insight to say the police force, especially high up, the police unions, and judiciary are part of the problem.

I actually love good cops. I have been in martial arts, particularly grappling for 30 years. I also know my friends complain about fat stupid ignorant guys they have been forced to work with and get protected by police unions.

70 percent are capable but a good 30 or more are over weight and not equip to even fire a weapon in stress never mind handle stress like combat.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: luthier

I never said word one about CPD not being corrupt. Far from it in fact, since I used to live just outside the city and am well familiar with it. No need to make stuff up and then ask me to defend the ridiculous premise that you came up with.

But let's not talk about "drinking the kool-aid and blaming the other guy" in one comment and then turn around and blame the other guy in the next comment. CPD has a lot of corruption in it, but I'm more than happy to wager that the corruption doesn't rise to the level of forcing gangs to go out and kill each other, or forcing wannabe hoodrats to go out and kill their neighbors, or forcing thugs to go do a drive-by and pop 8 year old little girls.

Fair enough.

They however allow it to happen and profit off of it. Which is a major civil right violation for the people not gang banging who have to live in it.

Also never said it was their fault exclusively so your entire argument may as well be reversed to yourself.

If you water the garden you share some responsibility for its growth.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: luthier

I never said word one about CPD not being corrupt. Far from it in fact, since I used to live just outside the city and am well familiar with it. No need to make stuff up and then ask me to defend the ridiculous premise that you came up with.

But let's not talk about "drinking the kool-aid and blaming the other guy" in one comment and then turn around and blame the other guy in the next comment. CPD has a lot of corruption in it, but I'm more than happy to wager that the corruption doesn't rise to the level of forcing gangs to go out and kill each other, or forcing wannabe hoodrats to go out and kill their neighbors, or forcing thugs to go do a drive-by and pop 8 year old little girls.

^^^ This, times 100

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: luthier

I never said word one about CPD not being corrupt. Far from it in fact, since I used to live just outside the city and am well familiar with it. No need to make stuff up and then ask me to defend the ridiculous premise that you came up with.

But let's not talk about "drinking the kool-aid and blaming the other guy" in one comment and then turn around and blame the other guy in the next comment. CPD has a lot of corruption in it, but I'm more than happy to wager that the corruption doesn't rise to the level of forcing gangs to go out and kill each other, or forcing wannabe hoodrats to go out and kill their neighbors, or forcing thugs to go do a drive-by and pop 8 year old little girls.

Fair enough.

They however allow it to happen and profit off of it. Which is a major civil right violation for the people not gang banging who have to live in it.

Also never said it was their fault exclusively so your entire argument may as well be reversed to yourself.

Never said that you said it was their fault exclusively. I said that you blame them for it, and that's the end of my statement. I didn't say you blame them for it a little/a lot/entirely. So no, my argument may not be reversed. Again, don't make snip up and expect me to defend whatever snip you made up.

Given that the definition of police corruption is breaking one's contract or oath for personal gain or the gain of the agency, I can only say "no snip, Sherlock" to the rest of your comment.