Is there a dumbing down of music

To OP. its not that i fundamentally disagree with you, im telling you flat out, you are wrong. i say this as a composer and producer. all art is subject to the eye (or ear in this case) of the beholder. your argument is, well i like one thing and everything else that isnt that is garbage. art is anything that was artificially created to provoke an involuntary emotional response.

skrillex to many millions provokes an extreme emotional response in that it gets the adrenaline flowing and the blood pumping. in the same way that a furious orchestral piece might do the same. your argument is based entirely on personal preference. but what really proves that you dont know what your talking about is when you say that modern artists depend on computer sound effects. sound effects are just that, effects.

computers not only infinitely expand the amount of sounds we can use to make music. they allow anyone to make it in their own bed room. ill never have access to a full blown orchestra with infinite patience to play out all my musical ideas in real time when ever i want. and they will never be able to produce an unlimited array of synth sounds. and dont give me this "oh but the computer does all the work and you press a couple of buttons." composing a song on the computer is the exact same as composing a song on a piano. on the piano i press a key that strikes a string and generates a note. on the computer i press a key that sends an electrical signal to the computer to play that same note. again you simply dont know what your talking about. and the nice thing with the computer is i can change the intrument that note is being played on to anything i want.

there are also no definite rules to music or art in general. your statement that music that does not follow classical order being dumbed down is also dumb. as again its a matter of personal preference. i dont like pop. but there millions of people all over the world that love it and get emotional responses from it. thus it is art, and audio art is music. same for skrillex, and all EDM/electronic music. just because you dont like it doesn't mean its garbage. and to try to berate or belittle people who enjoy and make it is really disappointing.

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for those who are curious here are some examples of my work. apparently all i had to do is press a couple of buttons and they made them selves....

The Encounter.
www.youtube.com...

Euphoria & Fear
www.youtube.com...

Trapped in Paradise
www.youtube.com...

Current work in progress - Nightclub Demon
www.youtube.com...

There is systematic "dumbing-down" of all facets of society, and it has been underway for decades:

- Music: two-tone ditties spouted by reality show karaoke crooners make million$; classical music is all but a niche pursuit; music industry 90% celebrity and 10% art...
- Films: computer-generate schlock predominant; seminal classics sullied for cash-grab sequel whoring up the wazoo; box office dictating what people 'want' to see...
- Video games: developed to indulge, nay reward players; requiring little in the way of hone twitch motor skills or real-time problem-solving -- the few redeeming aspect of the pastime; games becoming more glorified B-schlock CGI film than games...
- Books: ...huh?
- Language: the '150-Character Era' spawned shorthand modes of gibberish expression; tangibly [adversely] effecting peoples' ability to spell; "alot" of "bigly", "unp®esidented" mistakes disseminated so widely that they become accepted as correct; "big words" scorned as "elite" and their users vilified...
- Food: the art of cooking lost (except in the decadent glorification of professional culinary arts -- the precursor to the fall of many empires); "fat" still blamed for all an sundry, when it clear that it has been sugar that has addicted and poisoned the planet for generations...
- News: political sound snippets down from ~32 seconds per grab, to ~7 seconds; prevalence of "fake news"; news sought to reënforce preëxisting prejudices, over factual information to edify; idiocy echo chambers, like InfoWars and Brietbart, more popular than ever...
Overall anti-intellectualism: science rejected unless it's "fun science", like VR porn or sexbots; inane notions, like "flat Earth", "faked Moon landing" and "chemtrails" pervasive; school grades higher than ever, despite comparative statistic being categorically contradictory...
Leadership usurpation by demagogues: simplistic slogans remain unquestioned; policy substance immaterial; fanciful promises taken as 'gospel' (pardon the pun!); fear being the staple election platform promulgation point...

This 'dolcifying' of the knuckle-dragger masses has existed for a long time. It's how the elite keep the down-trodden 'mushrooms' placated -- feed 'em crap and keep them in the dark. It's just that, with the advent of the Digital Age, the dumbing-down process has accelerated by orders of magnitude, and its manifestations exacerbated―by the ease with which fools can commune and share the same malfunctioning brain cell.

In the same way TPTB have lost control of their most sensitive information to "400-pound" hackers in basements, so too have they inadvertently unleashed a brain-dead beast that they had not devised contingencies for. Now the head-cracking and brain-goo-feasting begins... ☠

Very interesting point.

As a musician myself I must say that in my opinion music has changed dramatically over the years and at a tremendous rate - not to mention the technology that is now available to the artist.

Personally I don't use MIDI (well, not much) but I do appreciate it and it certainly has its place. Audio is my preferred choice but as mentioned above it would be a little more difficult in a real time situation, and MIDI is easier to quantise etc...

Recording is becoming more user friendly too meaning that its more affable to the end user meaning more potential artists/artists are using them.

a reply to: supermilkman

Your comment about "moral degradation" in music is nonsensical, if not downright stupid.
Your blanket generalization that "chaotic" music is somehow inferior, and shouldn't be considered pleasant... So only things that you like constitute real music? There are supremely talented musicians who make exceedingly chaotic music. Theread are many who play with the very concept of what should be considered music. There are whole genres of music called "noise" music. Some of the most inegligent people I know listen to such things. Your personal taste doesn't define what should and should not be considered music, or what should be considered music in the first place. That is a truly ignorant and conceited opinion. Classical music is no more or less valid than other forms of music. Music evolves. Tastes change and evolve. To equate that to a "dumbing down" is legitimately foolish.

Oops. Carry on. Nothing to see here....

a reply to: mast3rshake2049

To quote Mike Muir from Suicidal Tendencies.. "Just cause you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good"

This is an overwhelmingly ignorant and idiotic comment. Mind-bogging so. The amount of ignorance needed to believe this is truly staggering.
Again, classical music is no more or less valid or sophisticated than any other form of music. To claim that it's somehow more sophisticated, and that anything that deviates from it is dumb, is horrendously stupid and narrow-minded. Again, your personal tastes don't dictate what constitutes "good" music. Music doesn't have set rules and guidelines, you ignorant dunce. Your blanket statement that all music besides classical just relies on computer editing and sound effects displays an overwhelming amount of ignorance. And even beyond that, music that does use those methods is no less valid than classical or any other kind of music. Art is subjective. There are musical geniuses who play upon and outright reject those strict guidelines for music, just as there are literary genuses who do the same with writing. Is the writing of James Joyce "dumbed down" because it doesn't conform to classic literary structures?

originally posted by: supermilkman

That's not really talented.

They also come off devilish.

If they aren't talented, then I would love to see you write and perform a heavy metal song. I mean, it should be super easy, since it doesn't require any talent, right?
And that comment about them coming off "devillish" is embarrassingly naive and quaint.

a reply to: supermilkman
I don't know. Is this less intelligent?
m.youtube.com...

a reply to: supermilkman

Music may seem to not conform because artists wish to try and create something new and different. The more and more new artists come about, the more they try to push what may have not been done yet. Also music creation is becoming much easier to achieve now with software and synths, so overall music is being created on mass instead of only a few artists bringing out music once in a while.

originally posted by: supermilkman
a reply to: supermilkman

I also find this more interesting compared to most of your metal music.

It's overwhelmingly obvious that you are completely ignorant of huge swathes of metal music. You're using idiotic blanket generalizations again. Not all metal is the same, or even remotely close. There are bands like Swans, Khanate, etc., that bear no resemblance whatsoever to what you foolishly believe to represent all heavy metal as a whole. But your ignorance hasn't stopped you from spouting foolishness thus far, so I'm sure that doesn't actually matter to you.
And your repeated comments about computer editing and sound effects are amazingly foolish and ignorant. They are tools to make music, just like any other instrument. If you actually follow through with your completely juvenile logic, all instruments would be unsophisticated. Guitars are a tool to make sounds. There are various ways to change the sound. So those must be unsophisticated, because the sounds are produced artificially. Same with amplifiers, and pianos, and so on and so on and so on. There is no difference, aside from your completely arbitrary standards, which bear no weight and are supported by zero logic.

Don't be foolish. You're painting entire artforms and industries with a single broad brush, which is something that only a fool would do. There are still amazing movies, music, games, etc being produced. Just because you are ignorant of them doesn't mean that they don't exist
And your arbitrary standard of a video game needing to rely upon fast twitch reflexes in order to be good is.... well, dumb.

This video is relevant, and accurate, though I do not agree with everything PJW has to say in general.

A lot of it is disharmonious and chaotic which shouldn't be pleasant to the ear.

Your critique is strikingly similar to critics of Mozart in the late 1700s:

The famous complaint of Emperor Joseph II about The Marriage of Figaro - "too many notes, Mozart"

How about critics of Bach:

1737, by one-time Bach pupil JA Scheibe: "[Bach] would be the admiration of whole nations if he had more amiability, if he did not take away the natural element in his pieces by giving them a turgid and confused style, and if he did not darken their beauty by an excess of art."

That is not music. That is garbage. There seems to not only be a decay in musical talent but even moral degradation with a lot of the latest acts.

As for the 'moral decay' bit:

An Associated Press article reported that on Sunday, December 2, 1956, The Rev. Carl Elgena told his Des Moines, Iowa, congregation that “Elvis Presley is morally insane” and “by his actions he’s leading other young people to the same end.” He warned the over 800 members in the pews of the Grand View Park Baptist Church that “the belief of unholy pleasure has sent the morals of our nation down to rock bottom and the crowning addition to this day’s corruption is Elvis Presleyism.” Holding up magazine pictures and articles depicting some of the singer’s alleged actions, the minister declared, “When I was a boy, if a person had done things like this, he would have found himself in jail.”

I wonder what people have said about the music you like to listen to?

originally posted by: supermilkman
I think we can all agree that the more technical and sophisticated the art is the better.

No, we can't all agree on that, because it is incredibly stupid. Legitimately one of the single dumbest comments i have ever read or heard in my entire life. Technical complexity has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on quality. None. To paraphrase one of my favorite musicians, Buzz Osborne of the Melvins: if technical complexity equated to quality of music, then every guitar shop employee noodling around on his guitar would be a rock star/musical genius.

There is a reason that many of the most popular and beloved songs in history, as well as some of the most beloved and acclaimed literature and art, is simplistic in nature. Because technical complexity has no bearing upon quality. By your completely inane "logic," Hemingway would be a hack because his writing is straightforward and simple. By your logic, any dunce who can string together a complex run-on sentence is a better writer than Hemingway just by virtue of their writing being more technical and/or complex. Do you see how amazingly idiotic that is?
And you're also shooting yourself in the foot. If technical complexity equates to quality, then many artists in the heavy metal genre that you so foolishly discredit (in spite of your complete ignorance of it) are geniuses and their music is highly sophisticated. There are heavy metal guitarists that play amazingly technically complex songs. You can't have it both ways.

a reply to: mast3rshake2049

You say you're a composer and then claim there are no rules to music and art?

Okay.

I'll refer you to the last poster that responded to me, who went to school for art apparently.

The school that teaches something without rules... Lol.

And to that last one who responded to me, art isn't always to generate an emotional response.

There is an art to building computers.

There is an art to designing buildings that withstand disaster.

There is an art to building cars that are more efficient.

Those arts have little to do with emotion.

Although, the sales people will tell you otherwise.

Music is an art that recalls emotions, but it is merely one form of art.

If your school taught you anything, it is that art actually is a human construct designed to manipulate and/or recreate aspects of nature to be manipulated. Etymologically, it means human workmanship.

That is art.

Now tell the composer about how art has no rules.

And then tell automobile designers how there are no rules, but they all have steering wheels.

Or tell architectural engineers that buildings don't need a foundation.

...

Any composer knows there are rules to music. Honda Civics and Chevy S-10s and Jeep Wranglers appeal to vastly unique demographics, but they all have an ignition, a starter, 4 wheels, doors, seats, mirrors, transmission, battery, brakes, etc...

Most importantly, a FRAME.

Those vehicles are works of art.

All art requires fundamentals, or else it is useless.

originally posted by: supermilkman
You say the Mona Lisa is simple? Ok, go ahead and paint a copy of one.

You say modern music is simple and unsophisticated? Okay, go write and perform a good pop song. Hwavy metal is simple? Go write and perform a good heavy metal song.
See how that works? Your own argument doesn't hold up to your own standards.
Your complete lack of self-awareness is almost as incredible as your general ignorance. Almost.

Lots of whining because people feel something they like was picked on.

Also lot of people here who justify art by dollars and cents and popularity.

Illogical creatures, the lot of ya.

When you buy because of your emotions or bias, that does not justify the mortality or the talent of the production. It justifies the creator's decision to make money. That's all.

What justifies the value of art is its legacy of usefulness. It must improve the life of an individual, a society, or even the world in a measurable way.

Improving someone's life isn't just making them feel good, by the way.

All hate will die, but "You Are My Sunshine" is godly. That song will be here as long as the grass is green.

But so much of what people defend here is already scattered and like rubble, sometimes before it's even created.

Lots of bias here. No good.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

When you buy because of your emotions or bias, that does not justify the mortality or the talent of the production. It justifies the creator's decision to make money. That's all.

Don't be dense.
Ignoring the fact that you dont seem to know what mortality means...
If somebody buys music they like, then it DOES justify that artistic input, and the talent of the person who produced it. They made something that somebody else enjoyed enough to buy. They created something that people like, and that brings them joy. Whether or not you personally like it has no bearing on whether it's valid art, or "justified." As if art has to somehow be justified in the first place. That very idea is ridiculous. If people like it enough to buy it, then they have obviously created something worthwhile.

Also, your comment about it needing to improve somebody's life, then saying that just making them feel good doesn't constitute improving their life: that is completely nonsensical and moronic. In what way does music have to improve somebody's life in order to meet your ridiculous standards of validity, if not improving their emotional state? That's an absurd notion. What would you like the music to do? Save them from a buring building? Magically get them a nice house? I mean.... did you even think before you typed that? In what way could music improve someone's life aside from improving their mental and emotional state? Which is, you know... a way of improving somebody's life.
And your completely arbitrary standards for what makes music "justified" are ridiculous as a whole, anyways. It's legacy of usefulness? Tastes change. Styles change. Things get lost to time for various reasons. That doesn't mean that they are any less artistically valid.
You bemoan people's biases, then turn around and project your arbitrary standards (which are based on your own bias) onto everybody else, as if you yourself dictate the terms of artistic validity.

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