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originally posted by: Tardacus
of course she had sex, where do you think jesus`s brothers came from?
originally posted by: pheonix358
Oh, for heavens sake!
You are basing your argument on the effect of a single word in the New Testament.
You are doing so after the text has been translated, possibly twice with no understanding that you would need to go back to the original texts that may be in Latin, Ancient Greek or other languages used.
You are referencing copies of the originals when many of the original documents are lost to us, (or hidden away by the Church)
Lastly, the Church has been tampering with the good book for almost one and a half thousand years.
Good luck but frankly, you are out on a limb.
originally posted by: TerriblePhoenix
a reply to: rickymouse
Yes there are millions of people who deny it.
originally posted by: windword
a reply to: pheonix358
SO what's your point? Did Mary and Joseph toss in the hay, or not?
Is Mary a perpetual virgin, or did she loose her virginity?
originally posted by: rickymouse
Mary had other children after Jesus was born, they were Josephs kids. There is nobody denying that. An occasional woman has a baby without a guy, that is uncommon but not impossible. In fact, maybe some married women had a kid with their husband and it actually is not their husbands at all. They could have just had a kid on their own. We will never know how many times this actually happens unless a genetic test is done and even so, it will show the father not the father if she had immaculate conception. She may not have even cheated.
"Part of the context of this question is that it is written that Jesus was called "Rabbi", yet Christian canon holds that Jesus was never married (a claim of which I am skeptical)." In response to this part of your inquiry, I can answer you that, by the time of Jesus, the title "rabbi" and correlates were not exclusively used in a formal manner as it is today in judaism in reference to authorized clergy. On the contrary, it was sometimes used in reference to non-clergy and non-pharisaic individuals who had acquired a religious following as a means of attributing honor.
Also, not all recognized pharisaic authorities (that time's rabbis) had the rabbi title attached to their names, as was, for example, the case for Hillel The Elder. Later rabbinc authorities also don't always have the title, as is the case for the Sage Shmuel, and many others. All this to say that: even if it could be proven that in rabbinic judaism historically one would have to be married to be a recognized rabbi, it does not follow from it that Jesus was married just because he was called a rabbi, since the title was not exclusively used in this formal manner by that time, being some times attributed to religious leaderships independent of formal training, recognition and, needless to say, any other requirement for official ordination as a rabbi.
originally posted by: SaturnFX
Sometimes I really wonder how there are adults who can believe this literally in the first place.
there are a thousand questions that naturally come up...such as how did she get impregnated without having sex, how did she know it was god? (coulda been a genetic scientist alien after all, or Satan, or etc), Why did she feel compelled to have Joseph cover for her instead of tell the world? Why would Joseph believe her? etc etc.
Personally, if the events played out at all, I think its more this being the result of perhaps some roman soldiers having their way with some random hebrew woman out by herself. She asked Jo to be dad because he always fancied her and she needed some help after the event and didn't want to be a outcast, voila. birth without (willing) sex
That is a story far more believable, and with no less quality towards who Mary is as a person. Could also be a good story on how even rapes can have positive outcomes.
BTW, this is made up (probably) but not by me. I was watching this random "psychic medium" who claimed to be chatting with Mary and this is the story that was given. Sure..why not.
originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: TerriblePhoenix
Yep, totally agree.
Mary had other children, the Catholics want people to believe otherwise, its her (catholics) pagan roots showing through.
The mother earth thing.
Jesus had siblings, thats reasonably well established... in my opinion