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How to recognize the spirit of God.

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posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic
edit: Of course some people's true colors demonstrate that so far in their lives they have never had any intention of becoming God's friend/Jehovah's friend or accepting his word as being true/certain/correct, without error/factual/conclusive/absolute, clear/clear-cut/unambiguous/specific/absolute/definite/sure (especially when it's contradicting their human traditions and theological doctrines, their theosophies and preferred beliefs/opinions/philosophies/ideas about God and the realities taught by the bible, the inclinations of their hearts, their spirit/attitude, "their innermost thoughts*", *: Or “deepest emotions.” Lit., “kidneys.”, see my earlier quotation of Jeremiah 17:9,10; which is still operating in line with or according to "the spirit of the world", the way of thinking of people in the world that aren't real Christians, servants and witnesses of Jehovah doing what Jehovah and Jesus commanded to do, giving their best). Which brings us back to the OP again, "How to recognize...". Just remember, the bible encourages Christians to practice their ability ("through use") to "distinguish both right and wrong", both what is true/certain/conclusive and what is false, fictional/myth (or erronuous interpretation). Both the spirit of God and "the spirit of the world". That's how you "recognize" which is which.
Hebrews 5:14

But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

*: Or “their perceptive powers.”

Now it is this brain-training (or training of the mind) concerning Jehovah's witnesses that is always misrepresented as brainwashing by opponents of Jehovah, those walking according to "the spirit of the world". In the field of psychology this is called psychological projection, cause it's not the Jehovah's witnesses that have been brainwashed or demonstrate cult-like behaviour as those do that are stuck in "Babylon the Great", "this system of things", and under the influence of "the ruler of this system of things","the god of this system of things", the one "who is misleading the entire inhabited earth" and whose behaviour is guided by "the spirit of the world", not Jehovah's holy spirit (active force that he uses to accomplish his will, not a person). "Education differs from propaganda" (see the article in my signature for where this quote comes from), brain-training with a biblical education is not brainwashing or using your terminology regarding Jehovah's witnesses earlier, deluing yourself. There are other people showing clear signs of that and none of them are official members of a cult (at least not on paper or recognized by "the world", as the bible describes those who aren't real Christians collectively).

Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions [or character and group traits] onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings [or traits of their own].

Source: lifescript.com (between brackets is mine]

Perhaps I should have picked wikipedia so I don't have to add so much (except remind people of the topic of painting or projecting something on a "group", which relates to the topic of propaganda and the phrase "pot calling the kettle black"):

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.


So to sum up some things you were right/correct, without error about and which were in line with the spirit of God (which Jesus referred to as "And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper* to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you." at John 14:16,17). Things that are true/certain/conclusive/factual (this list is not all-inclusive, just the highlights or what's important and not a trigger of some misleading theosophy about this fact). Between brackets is mine again:

The Son was with his Father.
...
The Father created his Son. [accepting that Jehovah is referred to with "The Father" and Jesus is referred to with "his Son]
...
The father is without beginning or end.
...
The father was not born or created.


And here are the things you are wrong/incorrect about and are in line with "the spirit of the world", things that are false/untrue:

The Son is our God [false,the Son is the Son of our God, at most a misrepresented half-truth and cunning trickery since the Son is a god], because the Son created man [false, Jehovah God created man through Jesus, long story, lots of videos about that half-truth or twist on the DefendingYHWH channel, changing "through" to "by" in Colossians for example, but other subtle changes and trickery as well]. The Father did not create Adam[false and contradicting what Jesus himself said about it]. Jesus, who is YWHW [/Jehovah in the english language: false]the Son of God [only accurate unambiguous truth in this piece], created Adam [false or half-truth as explained before and we went into detail about it, even though you ignored all those details in the videos I shared or the plain reading of what Jesus said about who created Adam without appealing to twisted interpretations and translations of Colossians and similar bible texts about the same subject].
...
Why do you call YWHW/Jesus/The Light/The Holy Spirit/ The Son of God good. [conflation game+half truths and triggers of misinterpretation and eisegesis, theosophy concerning the mention of Jesus saying: "As long as I am in the world, I am the world’s light.” at John 9:5 which has been translated in some bibles as "the light of the world." (KJ) or as you use it with a capital "the Light of the world.". Often recognizable by someone not making any effort understanding what Jesus was talking about and what he was referring to with "light" and whether the bible may have more information about that subject before drawing any rash conclusions and starting to use it as a title without understanding what it's referring to or what the title means if the bible did use it as one, which obviously isn't to be taken as literal light (see the song about darkness and light I shared earlier for example for a clue). Jesus is not "YHWH" or Jehovah, Jesus is not "The Holy Spirit".]

I think I'll leave it there. Well, I can leave the tip of the iceberg of deceptive "persuasive arguments" and house of cards in use by Trinitarians and Binitarians regarding Colossians and the terms "the image of the invisible God", "firstborn of all creation" and the topic of creation by God through Jesus (as a "master worker", Proverbs 8:22-30), not a "co-Creator" (quoting the man with Jewish background in the video about Proverbs sharing something that is wrong/incorrect as well along with about 95% truths in his 2 videos, and just a couple of more wong terminologies or stuff like that that are minor caveats I have with those 2 videos):
Another Look At Col 1:15-18 A Response To MCO4HELP part 2
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic
continued from previous comment.

Mind you, in the video above the keypoints are after 3:20.

Here are the 2 videos from a man with Jewish background and 5% wrong terminology or misleading stuff that shouldn't be much of a problem with me pointing out the incorrect terminology "co-Creator" that is also discussed and corrected in the other videos.
The Created Messiah part 1 (Proverbs 8:22-30, multiple bible translations and manuscriptal evidence))
The Created Messiah part 2 (this is the one with the most misleading commentary that is corrected in my other suggested videos)

First part of the earlier shared video:
Another Look At Col 1:15-18 A Response To MCO4HELP Part1

More (still only the 'tip of ...', addressing the eisegesis of Trinitarians and Binitarians, and perhaps some Unitarians and Jews or so-called Jewish Christians for whom this eisegesis is convenient for dismissal, a nice Don Quijote Windmill Giant to ignore the real truths/facts about Jehovah and Jesus as 2 distinct individuals and what the bible really teaches about this subject and how the bible addresses this eisegesis, these theosophies, these human traditions and teachings and exposes them with clarity and certainty, with that which is true/factual, something you can 'take to the bank' and not ignore or trivialize as interpretation according to Pontius Pilate's expressed version of an agnostic philosophy of vagueness* applied selectively to this subject). *: When he cynically asked Jesus: "What is truth?" Perhaps Pilate viewed truth as too elusive to grasp. This disdainful attitude toward truth is shared by many today, including religious leaders, educators, and politicians. Pilate, of course, was not really seeking the truth. If anything, his question revealed his skeptical or cynical attitude. Apparently, to Pilate truth was whatever a person might choose or was taught to believe (your terminology: "interpretation" applied to something that is "factual" and then mixed with something that is "false" in the same conflation+trivialize+discredit+dismiss+denial of realities/facts game and in combination with the paint jobs and trying to fit something into a paint job, including or and psychological projection); there was really no way to determine what is truth. Many today feel the same way. The statement that prompted Pilate’s question is worth noting. Jesus had said: “For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.” (John 18:37) Truth to Jesus was no vague, incomprehensible concept. He promised his disciples: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:32.

Where can such truth be found? On one occasion, Jesus said in prayer to God: “Your word is truth.” (John 17:17)
Pilate indifferently rejected the opportunity to learn such truth. What about you? Why not ask Jehovah’s Witnesses what “the truth” that Jesus taught is all about? They will be glad to share that truth with you.

Churchgoers in 16th-century Europe faced the dilemma of what to believe as truth. Raised to believe in the supremacy of the pope and in other teachings of the church, they were confronted with new ideas spread by the Reformation, which was sweeping through Europe at the time. What should they believe? How would they decide what is truth?

During that period, there were, among many others, three men who were determined to seek out the truth. How did they go about identifying what was true and what was false? And what did they find?

“LET THE BIBLE . . . ALWAYS RULE SUPREME IN THEOLOGY” -Wolfgang Capito

Back to Colossians:
Responding to MBI3030 Part 1: in DefendingYHWH video on Cults
Responding to MBI3030 Part 2 in DefendingYHWH video on Cults Apologetic series JW's pt 2
Re: Does Col 1:15 Prove Jesus was created?
Col 115 p2.wmv
21Crosscheck21 and Colossians (Trinitarian Issue)
Bill and his commentaries Colossians 1

A slightly related subject that connects to the OP (and the topic of "salvation" or "being saved" that was touched on in this thread):
"Born again" ... what does it mean? part 1of 4
Part 2 of 4
part 3 of 4
part 4 of 4

I guess it all boils down to whether or not someone wants to accept the plain truths taught by the bible such as my quotation from Jesus about who created man(kind) or pretend that it's just an interpretation (which it's not) just like interpreting that he was talking in the 3rd person (thus putting a false interpretation on equal footing, coming back to Pontius Pliate's way of thinking regarding what I bolded about "truth is whatever a person chooses to believe" or that you can't be sure about it so just stick with 'whatever you choose to believe' about what the bible says rather than simply accepting what it actually says as a fact/certainty, and in a clear/true/certain/conclusive/correct, without error/definitive manner). You tell yourself it's vague or not clear enough and allows your interpretation, but at the very least, you don't have to deal with the reality of the matter of what Jesus is teaching (and the rest of the bible). You're favoring your interpretation (eisegesis) over what the bible is teaching by telling yourself that directly accepting what it says is also an interpretation (or ignoring proper exegesis), therefore, what you're doing is OK (and the more cunning theologians might think of the term "exegesis" at this point; convince themselves that all they're doing is exegesis and the other person who brings up what the bible is really teaching isn't). There's a little more to it that I can't quite find the right words for. But it all boils down to downplaying the clarity of the Scriptures to the point where it allows a person to pretend that their interpretation still allows them to think that they're not denying the plain teachings of the bible and that they're still using the bible as their source of truth (and give that impression to others). You, like other Trinitarians and Binitarians and everyone else in Babylon the Great are teaching (or expressing) that which contradicts what the bible is teaching with clarity and certainty, nothing ambiguous about it or open to difference in interpretation while still making sense (and remaining honest, those 2 things fly out the window because there's only side interpreting falsely here and the other side simply accepts what it says,not even any exegesis needed, let alone eisegesis posing as exegesis or a response to what the bible is teaching

Is jcdied4all sincere and really looking for an answer?
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 11:58 AM
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what happens is that you end up claiming one thing that is consistent with what the bible is teaching, but then in true snakelike double-forked tongue style* (2 faces like Richard Dawkins, say one thing one time, say the opposite or something that contradicts it another time or even in the same sentence), a contradiction to the earlier acknowledgement follows, something that contradicts what the bible is teaching (those that are as the bible describes "antichrist" have been doing this for centuries and it's most notable in the early Church Fathers and those involved in promoting and setting up the doctrine of the Trinity in the 2nd to 5th centuries CE). This is the sign of the "spirit of the world" that Satan uses to teach people to think and talk that way. This is part of the OP's question "How to recognize...." (which I explained has 2 parts to it). When challenged regarding this contradiction, eisegesis is what follows as you demonstrated with the cop-out 'Jesus is talking in the 3rd person' and sticking your head in the sand regarding all the other facts I mentioned about what the bible is really teaching that are related to this (or otherwise finding ways to downplay or degrade their level of certainty or clarity). Other tactics and behaviour as described in the article about propaganda and the bible verses that I quoted are also involved. Anything that helps to avoid simply accepting what the bible teaches unambiguously. And in some cases attempts to paint a picture that these unambiguous facts from the bible aren't clear enough for your (or anyone else's) acceptance of them, open to interpretation, not really teaching that (or pretending that when others are sticking to them that they're the ones using interpretation).

*: Again, the bible has more information about the subject and how the "spirit of the world" and the interactions with other humans in "this system of things" can change a person's behaviour towards and way of thinking or arguing about biblical truths/facts/certainties and where to look for guidance and protection (including in the form of recognition) against this effect or phenomenon, and distinguishing those who are doing it right from those who are doing it wrong (following the right path guided by the spirit of God or those following the wrong path guided by the "spirit of the world" and/or what some bible translations use at 1 John 4:3 "the spirit of the antichrist", NRSV). There are no interpretations in the text below, the bolded part is crystal clear and contradicts again something you've been saying about the subject, as is the use of God's name Jehovah throughout the text, crystal clear and not an interpretation, that is the name of the God you're making claims about and spreading misinformation about while influencing how others think about Jehovah God and his Son Jesus Christ, as an effect of expressing your theosophies and eisegesis and the paint jobs, straw man arguments and red herrings in response to my commentary about it attempting to lift the veil and clear up the darkness using the Scriptures and in this case particularly Jesus' own words, but that wasn't the only part to it since you also misrepresented what Genesis says about the subject I felt like quoting that as well, and that got the ball rolling towards a pretty house of cards that functions much like the one fans of evolutionary philosophies use and won't acknowledge as being merely a house of deception cards going from one deception and attempt to trick reason and common sense to the next; never acknowledging anything that might damage that routine, not even the most basic truths/facts. Just play the next card when annoying questions are asked or challenges are raised regarding these cards. Refute one after the other and it still won't matter to these people, they simply will ignore your refutation and use the same card again later, possibly towards another person, after all, 'you can't be certain anyway, right? So it can't be refuted with certainty either', these people argue to themselves whereas theologians often have a slight variation on that way of thinking, their selective agnosticism, willfull ignorance and deliberate denial of well established and unambiguous facts is often much better hidden beneath the surface as they appeal to the bible as their source of truth, while denying almost everything it teaches but having cunning excuses ready for when called out on it).

Psalms 140

1 Rescue me, O Jehovah, from evil men;

Protect me from violent men,+

2 Those who scheme evil in their hearts+

And stir up conflict all day long.

3 They sharpen their tongue like that of a serpent;+

Venom of vipers is behind their lips.+ (Selah)

4 Protect me, O Jehovah, from the hands of the wicked;+

Safeguard me from violent men,

Those who scheme to trip me.

5 The haughty ones hide a trap for me;

With ropes they spread out a net beside the path.+

They set snares for me.+ (Selah)

6 I say to Jehovah: “You are my God.

Listen, O Jehovah, to my pleas for help.”+

7 O Jehovah the Sovereign Lord, my strong Savior,

You shield my head in the day of battle.+

8 Do not grant, O Jehovah, the desires of the wicked.

Do not let their plots succeed, so that they are not exalted.+ (Selah)

9 May the heads of those surrounding me

Be covered with the evil spoken by their lips.+

10 May burning coals rain down on them.+

May they be hurled into the fire,

Into deep pits,*+ never to rise again.

11 May the slanderer find no place on the earth.*+

May evil pursue men of violence and strike them down.

12 I know that Jehovah will defend the lowly

And give justice to the poor.+

13 Surely the righteous will give thanks to your name;

The upright will dwell before your face.*+


For the + and * in there you'll just have to click the link.
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 02:44 PM
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Note that in an honest translation of the bible (as is well supported by all the archeological and manuscriptal evidence and logical reasons given in the videos I shared about Colossians and John), that nowhere does it call Jesus a "Creator" or say specifically that "he created" anything in relation to the subjects in the 2 texts from Colossians and John...(just stressing that that's not the main point but additional information about these claims about Jesus creating Adam that I was discussing from the last page; also because I have a feeling some people might have some other eisegesis regarding another text up their sleaves that might mention something about the subject of "creation" that I haven't addressed yet). Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.—Mt 19:4-6; see CREATION.

Colossians 1:15-17

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist,

"by means of him" does not mean the same thing as "by him", it is indicating the same thing as Proverbs 8:22-30 is indicating, that as a "master worker" having a share in the creative works, he becomes an agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Which is consistent with the usage of the word "through" (and the related deception from Trinitarians changing and/or mistranslating what Paul wrote as explained in detail in the videos; including the cherry-picking and willful ignorance and twisted representations and false accusations, psychological projection, etc. that comes with convincing people that the translation they're using is being honest and has the facts/truths). This clear understanding is also supported by the "were made" phrase at the end there. And is consistent with the teachings of both Proverbs 8:22-30 and John 1:1-4:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.* 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light is shining in the darkness, but the darkness has not overpowered it.

*: Or “was divine.”


Oh look at that, there we have the terminology "the light" again, please don't respond with eisegesis to that (in your mind) without having watched the song about light and darkness on the previous page.

Prehuman Existence. The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: “In the beginning the Word [Gr., Loʹgos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god [“was divine,” AT; Mo; or “of divine being,” Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from “the beginning” must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.

That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.

If the estimates of modern-day scientists as to the age of the physical universe are anywhere near correct, Jesus’ existence as a spirit creature began thousands of millions of years prior to the creation of the first human. (Compare Mic 5:2.) This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. (Joh 1:3; Col 1:16, 17) This would include the millions of other spirit sons of Jehovah God’s heavenly family (Da 7:9, 10; Re 5:11), as well as the physical universe and the creatures originally produced within it. Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”—Col 1:16; Heb 1:2.

Not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the creative works, however, did not make him a co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit, or active force. (Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes its life to him. (Ps 36:9) Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.—Mt 19:4-6; see CREATION.

Wisdom personified. ..

Jesus Christ: Insight, Volume 2
Proverbs 8:22-30,"me" in verse 1 = Jesus, most Trinitarians know this and won't dispute this, videos or link above explains:

Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,+

The earliest of his achievements of long ago.+

23 From ancient times* I was installed,+

From the start, from times earlier than the earth.+

24 When there were no deep waters,+ I was brought forth,*

When there were no springs overflowing with water.

25 Before the mountains were set in place,

Before the hills, I was brought forth,

26 When he had not yet made the earth and its fields

Or the first clods of earth’s soil.

27 When he prepared the heavens,+ I was there;

When he marked out the horizon* on the surface of the waters,+

28 When he established* the clouds above,

When he founded the fountains of the deep,

29 When he set a decree for the sea

That its waters should not pass beyond his order,+

When he established* the foundations of the earth,

30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.+

I was the one he was especially fond of+ day by day;

I rejoiced before him all the time;


Revelation 3:14 (talking about Jesus as the "faithful and true witness", which can be unambiguously understood from the context as well as Revelation chapter 1 with a direct indentification that Jesus is this "faithful and true witness" of Jehovah)

... These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:

I left the + and * in to encourage people to click the link and do some more research. The videos really sum up more and can show more. Typing is laborious.
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 03:45 PM
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note that the Greek terminology that Paul used that has been translated above in Colossians as "by means of" is NOT the Greek terminology discussed at 3:37 in the video:

Another Look At Col 1:15-18 A Response To MCO4HELP part 2

Which discussed a crucial aspect and significant difference in meaning of Greek terminology and proper understanding of bible teachings, the full picture or an "accurate" or "full knowledge of truth" (as Paul would say it depending on which translation you're reading).

It also does not affect any of the main points when bringing up those translations using only "by" (those translations are still teaching and showing the same thing, that is not what I meant when I said "by means of him" does not mean the same thing as "by him" in my commentary about Colossians when I forgot to mention that it does not mean the same thing as "by him" in the minds of some people who already misinterpret that terminology and cannot immediately recognize how "by him" would have to logically be understood if one chooses to translate it that way, or uses such a translation, given the context: the rest of the bible, and given honest Greek language definitions, or perhaps without even considering those last realities/certainties/facts/truths). In short you have to ignore so many facts and common sense to NOT understand "by him" to be referring to "by means of him", which means the same thing but makes that meaning more clear (all the evidence from the bible is proving this beyond any reasonable doubt; like I said, you don't even have to know anything about Greek). Bibles like the KJV make it clear in the very next verse already where the same type of "by" is used, but again, I'd like to stress that there's way more than just verse 17 in the KJV as well that shows this. So it doesn't matter that it says "by him" unless just like fans of evolutionary philosophies, you've been preprogrammed with philosophies and interpretations about it (the facts) and are already biased against accepting that it means "by means of" which can be shortened to "by" in the English language, but that in turn allows for broader interpretations and less clarity if one mistranslates the Greek word for "through" (NW) to "by" (KJV) in the same verse and surrounding context, including key places in the rest of the bible; which is a completely different Greek word with a different meaning as was used earlier in the verse for "by means of" (NW) and "by" (KJV), demonstrating inconsistency, conflation (of the 2 slightly different but related concepts "through" and "by means of" to 1 word and preprogrammed biased concept of what "by" means there in verse 16, in both instances it's found in the KJV), inaccuracy and/or dishonesty+bias in translation; and again, this way of interpreting "by him" erronuously is dependent on other key mistramslations at Proverbs 8:22-30, not mentioning that Jesus was beside God as a master worker when God was creating things through Jesus, John 1:1-4, etc.; and then still verse 17 in the KJV shows this interpretation to be false/erronuous even with those mistranslations elsewhere, and they didn't get to all of them either, there are more examples in the KJV like verse 17, even bibles like the KJV are still showing the clear unambiguous truth about this matter even with all the mistranslations and inaccurate renderings of the Greek and influence from the Latin Vulgate; mind you, I'm just using the KJV as an example of what other bible translations are also doing and showing in terms of facts/truths and falsehoods.

The Greek terminology discussed at 3:37 in the video mentioned above is the bolded part in this verse, 1 Corinthians 8:6:

6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Big difference with "by means of him". The video really emphasizes the importance of this subject and the related behaviour of avoiding clarity regarding this subject to reach the masses (the flock) by Trinitarians (especially theologians, scholars, pastors, and top shots and influential debaters).

King James Bible
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,...


KJB (and others) like to play around with the inconsistent use of "through" and "by" so I won't quote the rest. The darkness is bad enough as it is. The videos really clear up all this foggyness, this veil of darkness carefully crafted by Jehovah's enemies to keep people ignorant of the difference and the topic and the earlier claim of Jesus creating Adam, man(kind), etc. on the previous page by Isurrender73 (and Trinitarians in general).

Just remember that including everything I've said in my commentary so far, that's still not everything that's mentioned in the videos, that's why I said, typing things out is so laborious earlier. Perhaps to some people Newton's phrase below "ocean of truth" may begin to make some sense now (Newton was a diligent bible student, a real truth seeker who wants to get to the bottem of things, not stay at the surface with a superficial view of things; see my commentary in the thread about "What is knowledge?" concerning wisdom and related concepts in the philosophy and metaphysics forum).

edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2017 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Through your posts you have explained to me that I cannot be friends with your God if I don't worship him by the name Jehovah.

You have not been a Good Samaritan. You have not acted like my neighbor, my friend or my brother. You have spread fear and condemnation even though you perceive it not.

You are my brother and I have tried to correct you so that you could love me. But you continue to tell me that only a name can save me. Because I refuse your interpretation you condemn me to judgement while you raise yourself as the Elect.

You believe there is only one God, as do I. By this fact you should be able to see clearly that we are brothers, but you do not. You do not love me as I love you. Even though you fail to perceive it that way.

Out of fear and self-righteousness you attempt to convert me to your belief. If you fail, in your heart you condemn me.

These verses are for you but you perceive it not.

1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I believe God has many names that came from many prophets who are followed around the world under the guise of the different religions.

As I believe you are incorrect in interpretation of the book you follow I believe they are also incorrect in the interpretations of the books they follow.

The truth remains.

Those who follow God's laws stand with God.

Those who are disobedient to God's laws stand against God.

This not a straw man argument, nor a philosophy. It is a simple to understand psychological truth.

May the true God bring us together as brothers and end the separation caused by fear and misunderstanding. Amen



posted on Jan, 20 2017 @ 03:48 PM
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Some people only seem to be interested in painting a picture of someone else of not being loving enough just for being honest and showing the truths/facts from the bible concerning this subject including some biblical details about how people argue about it (including those who claim they take their information from the bible) but not as the main points. They won't address the main points (from or about the bible quotations), or the clearest or strongest points, they are not really reproving or correcting but trying to make it appear that they are while being way too busy with paint jobs while misrepresenting what the bible teaches including about what real love for one's brother entails, implying that being reproved with accurate biblical details about human behaviour as well as the main points about what the bible teaches regarding creation is equal to not being loved by the one reproving with bible knowledge, facts/truths; who's self-righteously judging in that case? Including painting a picture on someone else for being a fearmonger and being self-righteous (after the "ritualistic ..." paint job) is a good way to distract from the real issues here. None of this is showing the love a person claims to have for the one reproving with bible teachings, but a desire to discredit that one (and that one's commentary) and facilitate in dismissal (note that bible quotations about the bible teaching that was the subject of contradiction are rare in this, certainly a detailed discussion about what the bible really says about it without cherry-picking translations to accomodate bias). If I didn't include some warnings from the bible about behaviour (in argumentation and thinking) in relation to this subject it would not be very loving of me, I would not be following what people know as "the Golden Rule". The bible explains quite well what's going on here...

Proverbs 27:5,6
5 Open reproof is better than concealed love.
6 The wounds inflicted by a friend are faithful,
But an enemy’s kisses are plentiful.


Proverbs 26:22-25
The words of a slanderer are like tasty morsels;
They are gulped right down into the stomach.
23 Like a silver glazing over a piece of earthenware
Are affectionate words from an evil heart.
24 The one who hates others disguises it with his lips,
But inside he harbors deceit.
25 Although he speaks graciously, do not trust him,
For there are seven detestable things in his heart.* [Or “For his heart is completely detestable.”]


A person can claim they love another person but as long as they're more busy painting negative pictures on the other person (slander) and not addressing their main points and the plain teachings of the bible regarding a biblical subject they earlier spoke about and those teachings of theirs that contradict what the bible is teaching they are not 'giving a reason' for the beliefs and teachings that they are describing (for example those that contradict what I showed the bible is teaching about creation), and then it's just a hollow statement for the purpose of boasting about oneself that they're so loving but the other person isn't, 'therefore, don't take him/her seriously, just a hater, fearmonger, doomsayer, self-righteous preacher, etc.' (the types you see in movies, shows and some adventure games) is the intended argument behind it. I seem to be observing (by the demonstration of others) a range of other feelings than love towards me and my commentary when it comes to biblical teachings, even in situations where someone is claiming to love me (sometimes especially in that case when it's contrasted with my own suggested lack of love for them; even though I'm trying my utmost best to stay polite and respectful while not wavering with the truths/facts that I'm trying to share, not dishonesty for the sake of 'not wounding' someone in their pride or saying flattering things that appeal, tickling ears, but aren't really true or genuine honest expressions of my real thoughts/opinions but attempts to make me look good to the other person or other readers, as described by the behaviour described in the Proverbs above; which I could quote more related verses about that emphasize that last bit).

Provers 27:2
Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth;
Others, and not your own lips.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of* [Or “reverence for.”] Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge.
Only fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Isaiah 29:10-13
For Jehovah has poured a spirit of deep sleep on you;
He has closed your eyes, the prophets,
And he has covered your heads, the visionaries.
11 Every vision becomes for you like the words of a sealed book. When they give it to someone who can read, saying: “Read this out loud, please,” he will say: “I cannot, for it is sealed up.” 12 And when they give the book to someone who cannot read, saying: “Read this, please,” he will say: “I cannot read at all.”
13 Jehovah says: “This people approaches me with their mouth And they honor me with their lips,
But their heart is far removed from me;
And their fear of me is based on commands of men that they have been taught.

[remember what the word "fear" is referring to from Proverbs. Some types don't like their "commands of men" being reproved and begin to do a whole lot of psychological projection concerning the topic "love", "self-righteousness", "ritualistic approach", fearmonger, etc.; but it really is more about the paint job than psychological projection, influencing not only one's own mind and thinking, but also those of others]
Matthew 15:6b-11,13,14 (Jesus speaking)
So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’”
10 With that he called the crowd near and said to them: “Listen and get the sense of it: 11 It is not what enters into a man’s mouth that defiles him, but it is what comes out of his mouth that defiles him.”
13 In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. 14 Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”


I've already said enough about the topic of creation and there's little left to say about it when there's no one talking about it at this point (I also tried to constantly involve the topic of the OP in all my commentary and am still doing so for those who have read my commentary and have an "understanding heart"*; remember my comment about Hebrews and distinguishing both right and wrong, true and false, fact and fiction/myth; "How to recognize..."). All these bible verses that I'm quoting or repeating are related to that overarching subject. So good thread title! Me likes it


*: The “understanding heart is one that searches for knowledge”; it is not satisfied with a mere superficial view but seeks to get the full picture. (Pr 15:14) Knowledge must become ‘pleasant to one’s very soul’ if discernment is to safeguard one from perversion and deception.—Pr 2:10, 11; 18:15; see the rest about that subject in this comment+links.
edit on 20-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2017 @ 05:45 PM
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2 Timothy 3:16

16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,* for disciplining in righteousness,

*: Or “correcting.”


Not for using a few verses here or there and misapply them to paint a picture on a subject (consistent with teaching "commands of men as doctrines") or someone (of being "self-righteous" rather than "disciplining in righteousness" for example; paint job = substituting "light for dakness" and putting "sweet for bitter", Isa 5:20) and/or oneself (with positive traits such as love and openmindedness for people with different beliefs, sometimes noticeable as "bitter for sweet" once proper use of the Scriptures helps with discerning "thoughts and intentions of the heart" of a person attempting to paint those pictures, Hebrews 4:12; Jeremiah 17:10) while contradicting what the bible really teaches (or talking past those contradictions once confronted with the bible contradicting them with other subjects and red herrings). This all comes back to the proverb about Jehovah and discipline in Proverbs 1 and for example...

2 Timothy 4:3, 4

3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the beneficial teaching*, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

1st *: Or “healthful; wholesome.”
2nd *: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”


Isaiah 5:20,21:

Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good,
Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness,
Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those wise in their own eyes
And discreet in their own sight!


Hebrews 4:11b, 12

..., for fear anyone should fall in the same pattern of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul* and spirit*, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern* thoughts and intentions* of [the] heart. 13 And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting.

*: “Able to discern.” Lit., “judger.” Gr., kri·ti·kosʹ.
*: “Intentions.” Lit., “mental inclinations.”


Jeremiah 17:9, 10

The heart is more treacherous [Or “deceitful.”] than anything else and is desperate. [Or possibly, “incurable.”]

Who can know it?

10 I, Jehovah, am searching the heart,

Examining the innermost thoughts,* [Or “deepest emotions.” Lit., “kidneys.”]

To give to each one according to his ways,

According to the fruitage of his works.


Proverbs 3:11, 12

11 My son, do not reject the discipline of Jehovah,

And do not loathe his reproof,

12 For those whom Jehovah loves he reproves,

Just as a father does a son in whom he delights.


As head of the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ, in expression of his affection, sees to it that needed discipline is provided.—Re 3:14, 19:

14 “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:

19 “‘All those for whom I have affection, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent.


A Christian is taught in the Scriptures to be imitators of Christ, this also counts for affectionate/loving "reprove and discpline" using the tool described at 2 Tim. 3:16 (start of this comment).

2 Corinthians 11:11-15

For what reason? Because I do not love you? God knows I do.

12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.


1 Timothy 1:5-7

Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things, some have been turned aside to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of law, but they do not understand either the things they are saying or the things they insist on so strongly.
edit on 20-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2017 @ 01:04 AM
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a reply to: Justso
I forgot 3 videos (or 1 article+1 point) in my previous response to you (these 3 videos are best understood in light of the last video in my previous comment to you, what may also help is my other commentary in this thread, the videos below are also very appropiate in relation to that).



Note that the illustration by Jesus above is misinterpreted (google: eisegesis) by religious leaders within "Babylon the Great" (including Christendom) to teach and promote the following 2 myths/false stories (see 2 Tim.4:3,4, comment above); which relates to the topic of "fear" or "fearmongering" and slander and negative paintjobs (see Isa.5:20, 'bitter for sweet') directed at Jehovah God, among some other noteworthy topics and connections such as the OP's: "How to recognize...":

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal
Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell

Why did Jesus say: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God."
Why do we die? Why did Jesus Die? PART ONE
edit on 21-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2017 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

You can keep believing you are special. You can keep believing that you are better than me. You can keep believing that only the name Jehovah will save you.

I will keep being obedient to YHWH's laws. I will believe that salvation is found in Grace alone and the narrow path is obedience to the laws of YHWH and not belief in his names.

The sad thing is, his name is YHWH not Jehovah. The Israelites were not mistaken with the tetragrammaton. Their is no evidence to the contrary except a convoluted interpretation based on the self-righteousness of the false prophet William Miller whose 1914 prediction never came true, and other false teachers.



The leading light of Adventism had been William Miller, a flamboyant preacher who predicted that the world would end in 1843. When it didn’t, he "discovered" an arithmetical error in his eschatological calculations and said it would end in 1844. When his prediction again failed, many people became frustrated and withdrew from the Adventist movement, but a remnant, led by Ellen G. White, went on to form the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

It was this diminished Adventism which influenced Russell, who took the title "Pastor" even though he never got through high school. In 1879, he began the Watch Tower—what would later be known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the teaching organ of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. In 1908 he moved its headquarters to Brooklyn, where it has remained ever since.

Before he got his religious career well underway, Russell promoted what he called "miracle wheat," which he sold at sixty dollars per bushel. He claimed it would grow five times as well as regular wheat. In fact, it grew slightly less well than regular wheat, as was established in court when Russell was sued. Later he marketed a fake cancer cure and what he termed a "millennial bean" (which a wag has said probably got that name because it took a thousand years to sprout).

Russell taught his followers the non-existence of hell and the annihilation of unsaved people (a doctrine he picked up from the Adventists), the non-existence of the Trinity (he said only the Father, Jehovah, is God), the identification of Jesus with Michael the Archangel, the reduction of the Holy Spirit from a person to a force, the mortality (not immortality) of the soul, and the return of Jesus in 1914.

When 1914 had come and gone, with no Jesus in sight, Russell modified his teachings and claimed Jesus had, in fact, returned to Earth, but that his return was invisible. His visible return would come later, but still very soon. It would result in the final conflict between God and the Devil—the forces of good and the forces of evil—in which God would be victorious. This conflict is known to Witnesses as the battle of Armageddon, and just about everything the Witnesses teach centers around this doctrine.

www.catholic.com/tract/history-of-the-jehovahs-witnesses




Deuteronomy 18:22
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the YHWH does not take place or come true, that is a message the YHWH has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.


I find no reason to argue scriptures against a false prophet and his followers.


edit on 21-1-2017 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



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