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How to recognize the spirit of God.

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posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 07:33 AM
a reply to: whereislogic
edit: Of course some people's true colors demonstrate that so far in their lives they have never had any intention of becoming God's friend/Jehovah's friend or accepting his word as being true/certain/correct, without error/factual/conclusive/absolute, clear/clear-cut/unambiguous/specific/absolute/definite/sure (especially when it's contradicting their human traditions and theological doctrines, their theosophies and preferred beliefs/opinions/philosophies/ideas about God and the realities taught by the bible, the inclinations of their hearts, their spirit/attitude, "their innermost thoughts*", *: Or “deepest emotions.” Lit., “kidneys.”, see my earlier quotation of Jeremiah 17:9,10; which is still operating in line with or according to "the spirit of the world", the way of thinking of people in the world that aren't real Christians, servants and witnesses of Jehovah doing what Jehovah and Jesus commanded to do, giving their best). Which brings us back to the OP again, "How to recognize...". Just remember, the bible encourages Christians to practice their ability ("through use") to "distinguish both right and wrong", both what is true/certain/conclusive and what is false, fictional/myth (or erronuous interpretation). Both the spirit of God and "the spirit of the world". That's how you "recognize" which is which.
Hebrews 5:14

But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

*: Or “their perceptive powers.”

Now it is this brain-training (or training of the mind) concerning Jehovah's witnesses that is always misrepresented as brainwashing by opponents of Jehovah, those walking according to "the spirit of the world". In the field of psychology this is called psychological projection, cause it's not the Jehovah's witnesses that have been brainwashed or demonstrate cult-like behaviour as those do that are stuck in "Babylon the Great", "this system of things", and under the influence of "the ruler of this system of things","the god of this system of things", the one "who is misleading the entire inhabited earth" and whose behaviour is guided by "the spirit of the world", not Jehovah's holy spirit (active force that he uses to accomplish his will, not a person). "Education differs from propaganda" (see the article in my signature for where this quote comes from), brain-training with a biblical education is not brainwashing or using your terminology regarding Jehovah's witnesses earlier, deluing yourself. There are other people showing clear signs of that and none of them are official members of a cult (at least not on paper or recognized by "the world", as the bible describes those who aren't real Christians collectively).

Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions [or character and group traits] onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings [or traits of their own].

Source: (between brackets is mine]

Perhaps I should have picked wikipedia so I don't have to add so much (except remind people of the topic of painting or projecting something on a "group", which relates to the topic of propaganda and the phrase "pot calling the kettle black"):

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

So to sum up some things you were right/correct, without error about and which were in line with the spirit of God (which Jesus referred to as "And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper* to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you." at John 14:16,17). Things that are true/certain/conclusive/factual (this list is not all-inclusive, just the highlights or what's important and not a trigger of some misleading theosophy about this fact). Between brackets is mine again:

The Son was with his Father.
The Father created his Son. [accepting that Jehovah is referred to with "The Father" and Jesus is referred to with "his Son]
The father is without beginning or end.
The father was not born or created.

And here are the things you are wrong/incorrect about and are in line with "the spirit of the world", things that are false/untrue:

The Son is our God [false,the Son is the Son of our God, at most a misrepresented half-truth and cunning trickery since the Son is a god], because the Son created man [false, Jehovah God created man through Jesus, long story, lots of videos about that half-truth or twist on the DefendingYHWH channel, changing "through" to "by" in Colossians for example, but other subtle changes and trickery as well]. The Father did not create Adam[false and contradicting what Jesus himself said about it]. Jesus, who is YWHW [/Jehovah in the english language: false]the Son of God [only accurate unambiguous truth in this piece], created Adam [false or half-truth as explained before and we went into detail about it, even though you ignored all those details in the videos I shared or the plain reading of what Jesus said about who created Adam without appealing to twisted interpretations and translations of Colossians and similar bible texts about the same subject].
Why do you call YWHW/Jesus/The Light/The Holy Spirit/ The Son of God good. [conflation game+half truths and triggers of misinterpretation and eisegesis, theosophy concerning the mention of Jesus saying: "As long as I am in the world, I am the world’s light.” at John 9:5 which has been translated in some bibles as "the light of the world." (KJ) or as you use it with a capital "the Light of the world.". Often recognizable by someone not making any effort understanding what Jesus was talking about and what he was referring to with "light" and whether the bible may have more information about that subject before drawing any rash conclusions and starting to use it as a title without understanding what it's referring to or what the title means if the bible did use it as one, which obviously isn't to be taken as literal light (see the song about darkness and light I shared earlier for example for a clue). Jesus is not "YHWH" or Jehovah, Jesus is not "The Holy Spirit".]

I think I'll leave it there. Well, I can leave the tip of the iceberg of deceptive "persuasive arguments" and house of cards in use by Trinitarians and Binitarians regarding Colossians and the terms "the image of the invisible God", "firstborn of all creation" and the topic of creation by God through Jesus (as a "master worker", Proverbs 8:22-30), not a "co-Creator" (quoting the man with Jewish background in the video about Proverbs sharing something that is wrong/incorrect as well along with about 95% truths in his 2 videos, and just a couple of more wong terminologies or stuff like that that are minor caveats I have with those 2 videos):
Another Look At Col 1:15-18 A Response To MCO4HELP part 2
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 09:53 AM
a reply to: whereislogic
continued from previous comment.

Mind you, in the video above the keypoints are after 3:20.

Here are the 2 videos from a man with Jewish background and 5% wrong terminology or misleading stuff that shouldn't be much of a problem with me pointing out the incorrect terminology "co-Creator" that is also discussed and corrected in the other videos.
The Created Messiah part 1 (Proverbs 8:22-30, multiple bible translations and manuscriptal evidence))
The Created Messiah part 2 (this is the one with the most misleading commentary that is corrected in my other suggested videos)

First part of the earlier shared video:
Another Look At Col 1:15-18 A Response To MCO4HELP Part1

More (still only the 'tip of ...', addressing the eisegesis of Trinitarians and Binitarians, and perhaps some Unitarians and Jews or so-called Jewish Christians for whom this eisegesis is convenient for dismissal, a nice Don Quijote Windmill Giant to ignore the real truths/facts about Jehovah and Jesus as 2 distinct individuals and what the bible really teaches about this subject and how the bible addresses this eisegesis, these theosophies, these human traditions and teachings and exposes them with clarity and certainty, with that which is true/factual, something you can 'take to the bank' and not ignore or trivialize as interpretation according to Pontius Pilate's expressed version of an agnostic philosophy of vagueness* applied selectively to this subject). *: When he cynically asked Jesus: "What is truth?" Perhaps Pilate viewed truth as too elusive to grasp. This disdainful attitude toward truth is shared by many today, including religious leaders, educators, and politicians. Pilate, of course, was not really seeking the truth. If anything, his question revealed his skeptical or cynical attitude. Apparently, to Pilate truth was whatever a person might choose or was taught to believe (your terminology: "interpretation" applied to something that is "factual" and then mixed with something that is "false" in the same conflation+trivialize+discredit+dismiss+denial of realities/facts game and in combination with the paint jobs and trying to fit something into a paint job, including or and psychological projection); there was really no way to determine what is truth. Many today feel the same way. The statement that prompted Pilate’s question is worth noting. Jesus had said: “For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.” (John 18:37) Truth to Jesus was no vague, incomprehensible concept. He promised his disciples: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:32.

Where can such truth be found? On one occasion, Jesus said in prayer to God: “Your word is truth.” (John 17:17)
Pilate indifferently rejected the opportunity to learn such truth. What about you? Why not ask Jehovah’s Witnesses what “the truth” that Jesus taught is all about? They will be glad to share that truth with you.

Churchgoers in 16th-century Europe faced the dilemma of what to believe as truth. Raised to believe in the supremacy of the pope and in other teachings of the church, they were confronted with new ideas spread by the Reformation, which was sweeping through Europe at the time. What should they believe? How would they decide what is truth?

During that period, there were, among many others, three men who were determined to seek out the truth. How did they go about identifying what was true and what was false? And what did they find?


Back to Colossians:
Responding to MBI3030 Part 1: in DefendingYHWH video on Cults
Responding to MBI3030 Part 2 in DefendingYHWH video on Cults Apologetic series JW's pt 2
Re: Does Col 1:15 Prove Jesus was created?
Col 115 p2.wmv
21Crosscheck21 and Colossians (Trinitarian Issue)
Bill and his commentaries Colossians 1

A slightly related subject that connects to the OP (and the topic of "salvation" or "being saved" that was touched on in this thread):
"Born again" ... what does it mean? part 1of 4
Part 2 of 4
part 3 of 4
part 4 of 4

I guess it all boils down to whether or not someone wants to accept the plain truths taught by the bible such as my quotation from Jesus about who created man(kind) or pretend that it's just an interpretation (which it's not) just like interpreting that he was talking in the 3rd person (thus putting a false interpretation on equal footing, coming back to Pontius Pliate's way of thinking regarding what I bolded about "truth is whatever a person chooses to believe" or that you can't be sure about it so just stick with 'whatever you choose to believe' about what the bible says rather than simply accepting what it actually says as a fact/certainty, and in a clear/true/certain/conclusive/correct, without error/definitive manner). You tell yourself it's vague or not clear enough and allows your interpretation, but at the very least, you don't have to deal with the reality of the matter of what Jesus is teaching (and the rest of the bible). You're favoring your interpretation (eisegesis) over what the bible is teaching by telling yourself that directly accepting what it says is also an interpretation (or ignoring proper exegesis), therefore, what you're doing is OK (and the more cunning theologians might think of the term "exegesis" at this point; convince themselves that all they're doing is exegesis and the other person who brings up what the bible is really teaching isn't). There's a little more to it that I can't quite find the right words for. But it all boils down to downplaying the clarity of the Scriptures to the point where it allows a person to pretend that their interpretation still allows them to think that they're not denying the plain teachings of the bible and that they're still using the bible as their source of truth (and give that impression to others). You, like other Trinitarians and Binitarians and everyone else in Babylon the Great are teaching (or expressing) that which contradicts what the bible is teaching with clarity and certainty, nothing ambiguous about it or open to difference in interpretation while still making sense (and remaining honest, those 2 things fly out the window because there's only side interpreting falsely here and the other side simply accepts what it says,not even any exegesis needed, let alone eisegesis posing as exegesis or a response to what the bible is teaching

Is jcdied4all sincere and really looking for an answer?
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 11:58 AM
what happens is that you end up claiming one thing that is consistent with what the bible is teaching, but then in true snakelike double-forked tongue style* (2 faces like Richard Dawkins, say one thing one time, say the opposite or something that contradicts it another time or even in the same sentence), a contradiction to the earlier acknowledgement follows, something that contradicts what the bible is teaching (those that are as the bible describes "antichrist" have been doing this for centuries and it's most notable in the early Church Fathers and those involved in promoting and setting up the doctrine of the Trinity in the 2nd to 5th centuries CE). This is the sign of the "spirit of the world" that Satan uses to teach people to think and talk that way. This is part of the OP's question "How to recognize...." (which I explained has 2 parts to it). When challenged regarding this contradiction, eisegesis is what follows as you demonstrated with the cop-out 'Jesus is talking in the 3rd person' and sticking your head in the sand regarding all the other facts I mentioned about what the bible is really teaching that are related to this (or otherwise finding ways to downplay or degrade their level of certainty or clarity). Other tactics and behaviour as described in the article about propaganda and the bible verses that I quoted are also involved. Anything that helps to avoid simply accepting what the bible teaches unambiguously. And in some cases attempts to paint a picture that these unambiguous facts from the bible aren't clear enough for your (or anyone else's) acceptance of them, open to interpretation, not really teaching that (or pretending that when others are sticking to them that they're the ones using interpretation).

*: Again, the bible has more information about the subject and how the "spirit of the world" and the interactions with other humans in "this system of things" can change a person's behaviour towards and way of thinking or arguing about biblical truths/facts/certainties and where to look for guidance and protection (including in the form of recognition) against this effect or phenomenon, and distinguishing those who are doing it right from those who are doing it wrong (following the right path guided by the spirit of God or those following the wrong path guided by the "spirit of the world" and/or what some bible translations use at 1 John 4:3 "the spirit of the antichrist", NRSV). There are no interpretations in the text below, the bolded part is crystal clear and contradicts again something you've been saying about the subject, as is the use of God's name Jehovah throughout the text, crystal clear and not an interpretation, that is the name of the God you're making claims about and spreading misinformation about while influencing how others think about Jehovah God and his Son Jesus Christ, as an effect of expressing your theosophies and eisegesis and the paint jobs, straw man arguments and red herrings in response to my commentary about it attempting to lift the veil and clear up the darkness using the Scriptures and in this case particularly Jesus' own words, but that wasn't the only part to it since you also misrepresented what Genesis says about the subject I felt like quoting that as well, and that got the ball rolling towards a pretty house of cards that functions much like the one fans of evolutionary philosophies use and won't acknowledge as being merely a house of deception cards going from one deception and attempt to trick reason and common sense to the next; never acknowledging anything that might damage that routine, not even the most basic truths/facts. Just play the next card when annoying questions are asked or challenges are raised regarding these cards. Refute one after the other and it still won't matter to these people, they simply will ignore your refutation and use the same card again later, possibly towards another person, after all, 'you can't be certain anyway, right? So it can't be refuted with certainty either', these people argue to themselves whereas theologians often have a slight variation on that way of thinking, their selective agnosticism, willfull ignorance and deliberate denial of well established and unambiguous facts is often much better hidden beneath the surface as they appeal to the bible as their source of truth, while denying almost everything it teaches but having cunning excuses ready for when called out on it).

Psalms 140

1 Rescue me, O Jehovah, from evil men;

Protect me from violent men,+

2 Those who scheme evil in their hearts+

And stir up conflict all day long.

3 They sharpen their tongue like that of a serpent;+

Venom of vipers is behind their lips.+ (Selah)

4 Protect me, O Jehovah, from the hands of the wicked;+

Safeguard me from violent men,

Those who scheme to trip me.

5 The haughty ones hide a trap for me;

With ropes they spread out a net beside the path.+

They set snares for me.+ (Selah)

6 I say to Jehovah: “You are my God.

Listen, O Jehovah, to my pleas for help.”+

7 O Jehovah the Sovereign Lord, my strong Savior,

You shield my head in the day of battle.+

8 Do not grant, O Jehovah, the desires of the wicked.

Do not let their plots succeed, so that they are not exalted.+ (Selah)

9 May the heads of those surrounding me

Be covered with the evil spoken by their lips.+

10 May burning coals rain down on them.+

May they be hurled into the fire,

Into deep pits,*+ never to rise again.

11 May the slanderer find no place on the earth.*+

May evil pursue men of violence and strike them down.

12 I know that Jehovah will defend the lowly

And give justice to the poor.+

13 Surely the righteous will give thanks to your name;

The upright will dwell before your face.*+

For the + and * in there you'll just have to click the link.
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 02:44 PM
Note that in an honest translation of the bible (as is well supported by all the archeological and manuscriptal evidence and logical reasons given in the videos I shared about Colossians and John), that nowhere does it call Jesus a "Creator" or say specifically that "he created" anything in relation to the subjects in the 2 texts from Colossians and John...(just stressing that that's not the main point but additional information about these claims about Jesus creating Adam that I was discussing from the last page; also because I have a feeling some people might have some other eisegesis regarding another text up their sleaves that might mention something about the subject of "creation" that I haven't addressed yet). Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.—Mt 19:4-6; see CREATION.

Colossians 1:15-17

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist,

"by means of him" does not mean the same thing as "by him", it is indicating the same thing as Proverbs 8:22-30 is indicating, that as a "master worker" having a share in the creative works, he becomes an agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Which is consistent with the usage of the word "through" (and the related deception from Trinitarians changing and/or mistranslating what Paul wrote as explained in detail in the videos; including the cherry-picking and willful ignorance and twisted representations and false accusations, psychological projection, etc. that comes with convincing people that the translation they're using is being honest and has the facts/truths). This clear understanding is also supported by the "were made" phrase at the end there. And is consistent with the teachings of both Proverbs 8:22-30 and John 1:1-4:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.* 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light is shining in the darkness, but the darkness has not overpowered it.

*: Or “was divine.”

Oh look at that, there we have the terminology "the light" again, please don't respond with eisegesis to that (in your mind) without having watched the song about light and darkness on the previous page.

Prehuman Existence. The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: “In the beginning the Word [Gr., Loʹgos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god [“was divine,” AT; Mo; or “of divine being,” Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from “the beginning” must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.

That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.

If the estimates of modern-day scientists as to the age of the physical universe are anywhere near correct, Jesus’ existence as a spirit creature began thousands of millions of years prior to the creation of the first human. (Compare Mic 5:2.) This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. (Joh 1:3; Col 1:16, 17) This would include the millions of other spirit sons of Jehovah God’s heavenly family (Da 7:9, 10; Re 5:11), as well as the physical universe and the creatures originally produced within it. Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”—Col 1:16; Heb 1:2.

Not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the creative works, however, did not make him a co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit, or active force. (Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes its life to him. (Ps 36:9) Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.—Mt 19:4-6; see CREATION.

Wisdom personified. ..

Jesus Christ: Insight, Volume 2
Proverbs 8:22-30,"me" in verse 1 = Jesus, most Trinitarians know this and won't dispute this, videos or link above explains:

Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,+

The earliest of his achievements of long ago.+

23 From ancient times* I was installed,+

From the start, from times earlier than the earth.+

24 When there were no deep waters,+ I was brought forth,*

When there were no springs overflowing with water.

25 Before the mountains were set in place,

Before the hills, I was brought forth,

26 When he had not yet made the earth and its fields

Or the first clods of earth’s soil.

27 When he prepared the heavens,+ I was there;

When he marked out the horizon* on the surface of the waters,+

28 When he established* the clouds above,

When he founded the fountains of the deep,

29 When he set a decree for the sea

That its waters should not pass beyond his order,+

When he established* the foundations of the earth,

30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.+

I was the one he was especially fond of+ day by day;

I rejoiced before him all the time;

Revelation 3:14 (talking about Jesus as the "faithful and true witness", which can be unambiguously understood from the context as well as Revelation chapter 1 with a direct indentification that Jesus is this "faithful and true witness" of Jehovah)

... These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:

I left the + and * in to encourage people to click the link and do some more research. The videos really sum up more and can show more. Typing is laborious.
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 03:45 PM
note that the Greek terminology that Paul used that has been translated above in Colossians as "by means of" is NOT the Greek terminology discussed at 3:37 in the video:

Another Look At Col 1:15-18 A Response To MCO4HELP part 2

Which discussed a crucial aspect and significant difference in meaning of Greek terminology and proper understanding of bible teachings, the full picture or an "accurate" or "full knowledge of truth" (as Paul would say it depending on which translation you're reading).

It also does not affect any of the main points when bringing up those translations using only "by" (those translations are still teaching and showing the same thing, that is not what I meant when I said "by means of him" does not mean the same thing as "by him" in my commentary about Colossians when I forgot to mention that it does not mean the same thing as "by him" in the minds of some people who already misinterpret that terminology and cannot immediately recognize how "by him" would have to logically be understood if one chooses to translate it that way, or uses such a translation, given the context: the rest of the bible, and given honest Greek language definitions, or perhaps without even considering those last realities/certainties/facts/truths). In short you have to ignore so many facts and common sense to NOT understand "by him" to be referring to "by means of him", which means the same thing but makes that meaning more clear (all the evidence from the bible is proving this beyond any reasonable doubt; like I said, you don't even have to know anything about Greek). Bibles like the KJV make it clear in the very next verse already where the same type of "by" is used, but again, I'd like to stress that there's way more than just verse 17 in the KJV as well that shows this. So it doesn't matter that it says "by him" unless just like fans of evolutionary philosophies, you've been preprogrammed with philosophies and interpretations about it (the facts) and are already biased against accepting that it means "by means of" which can be shortened to "by" in the English language, but that in turn allows for broader interpretations and less clarity if one mistranslates the Greek word for "through" (NW) to "by" (KJV) in the same verse and surrounding context, including key places in the rest of the bible; which is a completely different Greek word with a different meaning as was used earlier in the verse for "by means of" (NW) and "by" (KJV), demonstrating inconsistency, conflation (of the 2 slightly different but related concepts "through" and "by means of" to 1 word and preprogrammed biased concept of what "by" means there in verse 16, in both instances it's found in the KJV), inaccuracy and/or dishonesty+bias in translation; and again, this way of interpreting "by him" erronuously is dependent on other key mistramslations at Proverbs 8:22-30, not mentioning that Jesus was beside God as a master worker when God was creating things through Jesus, John 1:1-4, etc.; and then still verse 17 in the KJV shows this interpretation to be false/erronuous even with those mistranslations elsewhere, and they didn't get to all of them either, there are more examples in the KJV like verse 17, even bibles like the KJV are still showing the clear unambiguous truth about this matter even with all the mistranslations and inaccurate renderings of the Greek and influence from the Latin Vulgate; mind you, I'm just using the KJV as an example of what other bible translations are also doing and showing in terms of facts/truths and falsehoods.

The Greek terminology discussed at 3:37 in the video mentioned above is the bolded part in this verse, 1 Corinthians 8:6:

6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Big difference with "by means of him". The video really emphasizes the importance of this subject and the related behaviour of avoiding clarity regarding this subject to reach the masses (the flock) by Trinitarians (especially theologians, scholars, pastors, and top shots and influential debaters).

King James Bible
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,...

KJB (and others) like to play around with the inconsistent use of "through" and "by" so I won't quote the rest. The darkness is bad enough as it is. The videos really clear up all this foggyness, this veil of darkness carefully crafted by Jehovah's enemies to keep people ignorant of the difference and the topic and the earlier claim of Jesus creating Adam, man(kind), etc. on the previous page by Isurrender73 (and Trinitarians in general).

Just remember that including everything I've said in my commentary so far, that's still not everything that's mentioned in the videos, that's why I said, typing things out is so laborious earlier. Perhaps to some people Newton's phrase below "ocean of truth" may begin to make some sense now (Newton was a diligent bible student, a real truth seeker who wants to get to the bottem of things, not stay at the surface with a superficial view of things; see my commentary in the thread about "What is knowledge?" concerning wisdom and related concepts in the philosophy and metaphysics forum).

edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 20 2017 @ 10:21 AM
a reply to: whereislogic

Through your posts you have explained to me that I cannot be friends with your God if I don't worship him by the name Jehovah.

You have not been a Good Samaritan. You have not acted like my neighbor, my friend or my brother. You have spread fear and condemnation even though you perceive it not.

You are my brother and I have tried to correct you so that you could love me. But you continue to tell me that only a name can save me. Because I refuse your interpretation you condemn me to judgement while you raise yourself as the Elect.

You believe there is only one God, as do I. By this fact you should be able to see clearly that we are brothers, but you do not. You do not love me as I love you. Even though you fail to perceive it that way.

Out of fear and self-righteousness you attempt to convert me to your belief. If you fail, in your heart you condemn me.

These verses are for you but you perceive it not.

1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I believe God has many names that came from many prophets who are followed around the world under the guise of the different religions.

As I believe you are incorrect in interpretation of the book you follow I believe they are also incorrect in the interpretations of the books they follow.

The truth remains.

Those who follow God's laws stand with God.

Those who are disobedient to God's laws stand against God.

This not a straw man argument, nor a philosophy. It is a simple to understand psychological truth.

May the true God bring us together as brothers and end the separation caused by fear and misunderstanding. Amen

posted on Jan, 20 2017 @ 03:48 PM
Some people only seem to be interested in painting a picture of someone else of not being loving enough just for being honest and showing the truths/facts from the bible concerning this subject including some biblical details about how people argue about it (including those who claim they take their information from the bible) but not as the main points. They won't address the main points (from or about the bible quotations), or the clearest or strongest points, they are not really reproving or correcting but trying to make it appear that they are while being way too busy with paint jobs while misrepresenting what the bible teaches including about what real love for one's brother entails, implying that being reproved with accurate biblical details about human behaviour as well as the main points about what the bible teaches regarding creation is equal to not being loved by the one reproving with bible knowledge, facts/truths; who's self-righteously judging in that case? Including painting a picture on someone else for being a fearmonger and being self-righteous (after the "ritualistic ..." paint job) is a good way to distract from the real issues here. None of this is showing the love a person claims to have for the one reproving with bible teachings, but a desire to discredit that one (and that one's commentary) and facilitate in dismissal (note that bible quotations about the bible teaching that was the subject of contradiction are rare in this, certainly a detailed discussion about what the bible really says about it without cherry-picking translations to accomodate bias). If I didn't include some warnings from the bible about behaviour (in argumentation and thinking) in relation to this subject it would not be very loving of me, I would not be following what people know as "the Golden Rule". The bible explains quite well what's going on here...

Proverbs 27:5,6
5 Open reproof is better than concealed love.
6 The wounds inflicted by a friend are faithful,
But an enemy’s kisses are plentiful.

Proverbs 26:22-25
The words of a slanderer are like tasty morsels;
They are gulped right down into the stomach.
23 Like a silver glazing over a piece of earthenware
Are affectionate words from an evil heart.
24 The one who hates others disguises it with his lips,
But inside he harbors deceit.
25 Although he speaks graciously, do not trust him,
For there are seven detestable things in his heart.* [Or “For his heart is completely detestable.”]

A person can claim they love another person but as long as they're more busy painting negative pictures on the other person (slander) and not addressing their main points and the plain teachings of the bible regarding a biblical subject they earlier spoke about and those teachings of theirs that contradict what the bible is teaching they are not 'giving a reason' for the beliefs and teachings that they are describing (for example those that contradict what I showed the bible is teaching about creation), and then it's just a hollow statement for the purpose of boasting about oneself that they're so loving but the other person isn't, 'therefore, don't take him/her seriously, just a hater, fearmonger, doomsayer, self-righteous preacher, etc.' (the types you see in movies, shows and some adventure games) is the intended argument behind it. I seem to be observing (by the demonstration of others) a range of other feelings than love towards me and my commentary when it comes to biblical teachings, even in situations where someone is claiming to love me (sometimes especially in that case when it's contrasted with my own suggested lack of love for them; even though I'm trying my utmost best to stay polite and respectful while not wavering with the truths/facts that I'm trying to share, not dishonesty for the sake of 'not wounding' someone in their pride or saying flattering things that appeal, tickling ears, but aren't really true or genuine honest expressions of my real thoughts/opinions but attempts to make me look good to the other person or other readers, as described by the behaviour described in the Proverbs above; which I could quote more related verses about that emphasize that last bit).

Provers 27:2
Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth;
Others, and not your own lips.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of* [Or “reverence for.”] Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge.
Only fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Isaiah 29:10-13
For Jehovah has poured a spirit of deep sleep on you;
He has closed your eyes, the prophets,
And he has covered your heads, the visionaries.
11 Every vision becomes for you like the words of a sealed book. When they give it to someone who can read, saying: “Read this out loud, please,” he will say: “I cannot, for it is sealed up.” 12 And when they give the book to someone who cannot read, saying: “Read this, please,” he will say: “I cannot read at all.”
13 Jehovah says: “This people approaches me with their mouth And they honor me with their lips,
But their heart is far removed from me;
And their fear of me is based on commands of men that they have been taught.

[remember what the word "fear" is referring to from Proverbs. Some types don't like their "commands of men" being reproved and begin to do a whole lot of psychological projection concerning the topic "love", "self-righteousness", "ritualistic approach", fearmonger, etc.; but it really is more about the paint job than psychological projection, influencing not only one's own mind and thinking, but also those of others]
Matthew 15:6b-11,13,14 (Jesus speaking)
So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’”
10 With that he called the crowd near and said to them: “Listen and get the sense of it: 11 It is not what enters into a man’s mouth that defiles him, but it is what comes out of his mouth that defiles him.”
13 In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. 14 Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”

I've already said enough about the topic of creation and there's little left to say about it when there's no one talking about it at this point (I also tried to constantly involve the topic of the OP in all my commentary and am still doing so for those who have read my commentary and have an "understanding heart"*; remember my comment about Hebrews and distinguishing both right and wrong, true and false, fact and fiction/myth; "How to recognize..."). All these bible verses that I'm quoting or repeating are related to that overarching subject. So good thread title! Me likes it

*: The “understanding heart is one that searches for knowledge”; it is not satisfied with a mere superficial view but seeks to get the full picture. (Pr 15:14) Knowledge must become ‘pleasant to one’s very soul’ if discernment is to safeguard one from perversion and deception.—Pr 2:10, 11; 18:15; see the rest about that subject in this comment+links.
edit on 20-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 20 2017 @ 05:45 PM
2 Timothy 3:16

16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,* for disciplining in righteousness,

*: Or “correcting.”

Not for using a few verses here or there and misapply them to paint a picture on a subject (consistent with teaching "commands of men as doctrines") or someone (of being "self-righteous" rather than "disciplining in righteousness" for example; paint job = substituting "light for dakness" and putting "sweet for bitter", Isa 5:20) and/or oneself (with positive traits such as love and openmindedness for people with different beliefs, sometimes noticeable as "bitter for sweet" once proper use of the Scriptures helps with discerning "thoughts and intentions of the heart" of a person attempting to paint those pictures, Hebrews 4:12; Jeremiah 17:10) while contradicting what the bible really teaches (or talking past those contradictions once confronted with the bible contradicting them with other subjects and red herrings). This all comes back to the proverb about Jehovah and discipline in Proverbs 1 and for example...

2 Timothy 4:3, 4

3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the beneficial teaching*, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.

1st *: Or “healthful; wholesome.”
2nd *: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”

Isaiah 5:20,21:

Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good,
Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness,
Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those wise in their own eyes
And discreet in their own sight!

Hebrews 4:11b, 12

..., for fear anyone should fall in the same pattern of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul* and spirit*, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern* thoughts and intentions* of [the] heart. 13 And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting.

*: “Able to discern.” Lit., “judger.” Gr., kri·ti·kosʹ.
*: “Intentions.” Lit., “mental inclinations.”

Jeremiah 17:9, 10

The heart is more treacherous [Or “deceitful.”] than anything else and is desperate. [Or possibly, “incurable.”]

Who can know it?

10 I, Jehovah, am searching the heart,

Examining the innermost thoughts,* [Or “deepest emotions.” Lit., “kidneys.”]

To give to each one according to his ways,

According to the fruitage of his works.

Proverbs 3:11, 12

11 My son, do not reject the discipline of Jehovah,

And do not loathe his reproof,

12 For those whom Jehovah loves he reproves,

Just as a father does a son in whom he delights.

As head of the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ, in expression of his affection, sees to it that needed discipline is provided.—Re 3:14, 19:

14 “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:

19 “‘All those for whom I have affection, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent.

A Christian is taught in the Scriptures to be imitators of Christ, this also counts for affectionate/loving "reprove and discpline" using the tool described at 2 Tim. 3:16 (start of this comment).

2 Corinthians 11:11-15

For what reason? Because I do not love you? God knows I do.

12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.

1 Timothy 1:5-7

Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things, some have been turned aside to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of law, but they do not understand either the things they are saying or the things they insist on so strongly.
edit on 20-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2017 @ 01:04 AM
a reply to: Justso
I forgot 3 videos (or 1 article+1 point) in my previous response to you (these 3 videos are best understood in light of the last video in my previous comment to you, what may also help is my other commentary in this thread, the videos below are also very appropiate in relation to that).

Note that the illustration by Jesus above is misinterpreted (google: eisegesis) by religious leaders within "Babylon the Great" (including Christendom) to teach and promote the following 2 myths/false stories (see 2 Tim.4:3,4, comment above); which relates to the topic of "fear" or "fearmongering" and slander and negative paintjobs (see Isa.5:20, 'bitter for sweet') directed at Jehovah God, among some other noteworthy topics and connections such as the OP's: "How to recognize...":

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal
Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell

Why did Jesus say: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God."
Why do we die? Why did Jesus Die? PART ONE
edit on 21-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2017 @ 08:39 AM
a reply to: whereislogic

You can keep believing you are special. You can keep believing that you are better than me. You can keep believing that only the name Jehovah will save you.

I will keep being obedient to YHWH's laws. I will believe that salvation is found in Grace alone and the narrow path is obedience to the laws of YHWH and not belief in his names.

The sad thing is, his name is YHWH not Jehovah. The Israelites were not mistaken with the tetragrammaton. Their is no evidence to the contrary except a convoluted interpretation based on the self-righteousness of the false prophet William Miller whose 1914 prediction never came true, and other false teachers.

The leading light of Adventism had been William Miller, a flamboyant preacher who predicted that the world would end in 1843. When it didn’t, he "discovered" an arithmetical error in his eschatological calculations and said it would end in 1844. When his prediction again failed, many people became frustrated and withdrew from the Adventist movement, but a remnant, led by Ellen G. White, went on to form the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

It was this diminished Adventism which influenced Russell, who took the title "Pastor" even though he never got through high school. In 1879, he began the Watch Tower—what would later be known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the teaching organ of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. In 1908 he moved its headquarters to Brooklyn, where it has remained ever since.

Before he got his religious career well underway, Russell promoted what he called "miracle wheat," which he sold at sixty dollars per bushel. He claimed it would grow five times as well as regular wheat. In fact, it grew slightly less well than regular wheat, as was established in court when Russell was sued. Later he marketed a fake cancer cure and what he termed a "millennial bean" (which a wag has said probably got that name because it took a thousand years to sprout).

Russell taught his followers the non-existence of hell and the annihilation of unsaved people (a doctrine he picked up from the Adventists), the non-existence of the Trinity (he said only the Father, Jehovah, is God), the identification of Jesus with Michael the Archangel, the reduction of the Holy Spirit from a person to a force, the mortality (not immortality) of the soul, and the return of Jesus in 1914.

When 1914 had come and gone, with no Jesus in sight, Russell modified his teachings and claimed Jesus had, in fact, returned to Earth, but that his return was invisible. His visible return would come later, but still very soon. It would result in the final conflict between God and the Devil—the forces of good and the forces of evil—in which God would be victorious. This conflict is known to Witnesses as the battle of Armageddon, and just about everything the Witnesses teach centers around this doctrine.

Deuteronomy 18:22
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the YHWH does not take place or come true, that is a message the YHWH has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.

I find no reason to argue scriptures against a false prophet and his followers.

edit on 21-1-2017 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2017 @ 11:56 AM
quick quick, let's bring out the slander, false accusation and propaganda red herring and paint job: "false prophets!" "doomsayers!"

We need to get these people off the subject of what the bible teaches about God's identity including God's name, the identity of his Son and the relation between these 2 individuals and the history of the transliteration and translation of God's name including , the clear unambiguous historical evidence that Jehovah is just fine and only an English translation of that name just like "Jesus" is an English translation of the Hebrew "Yehoshuah", which starts with the same 3 Hebrew characters as the Hebrew name "Yehowah". Which is a modern Hebrew transliteration as it is found in the Masoretic Text (MT, see details below) dating back to the 7-10th century, 9-12 centuries before Miller was born, making the argument that the translation "Jehovah" is just "a convoluted interpretation based on the self-righteousness of the false prophet William Miller whose 1914 prediction never came true, and other false teachers.", a completely inaccurate false red herring responding to a straw man argument cause the facts about the bible, God and history I shared (supported by plenty of evidence in the videos and links) weren't about the exact spelling of God's name in 1 language (English) in the first place. And still no response to bible teachings about the identity of God or Jesus and subjects such as who created what with bible teachings and proper evidence for those teachings or logical reasons (evidence related to honest bible research and honest historical research, not a superficial view of things and/or eisegesis, see commentary about an "understanding heart").

Likewise there are other languages in which one can translate the name (and where that name is used in bible translations of that language), for example...
Iehova - Wiktionary:

Alternative forms


Traditional reading of the Biblical Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה, ... found in the Masoretic text (ca. 7th to 10th century [as Yehowah: יְהֹוָה -note the vowel marks]). The Greek equivalent ΙΕΗΩΟΥΑ is found even in Late Antiquity, in the Pistis Sophia (perhaps a 2nd century text, extant in 5th or 6th century manuscripts).

1. Jehovah

Quoting Isurrender73:


Now unlike perhaps earlier implied by someone, I would never make an issue out of a typing or spelling error. But there's a remarkable coincidence at the end of a video I ran into from the ArmedWithTruth channel that I shared videos of before, which turns out to be quite funny if you look at the date that video was made in comparison to the quotation above, made me smile (completely unrelated to anything I've said, just something funny to me that can perhaps put a smile on someone else's face as well, it is a funny coincidence after all). The video is actually about something Jesus taught, but I'm talking about the ending:

edit on 21-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2017 @ 01:12 PM
a reply to: Isurrender73

You can ignore the triangle picture below. Allthough it has been used by Freemasonry with that 'understanding', I'm not sure the person who made the video below knows who the bible is referring to when it uses the title "Shining One" at Isa. 14:12, not the name "Lucifer", which has confusing theosophies and eisegesis attached to it often from those favoring bible translations that use "Lucifer" (which still don't fit what it actually says in Isaiah even if you have "Lucifer" in the translation; Lucifer is not another name for Satan).

Playlist for everyone else where you can see the above video in context (which relates to the OP and my mention of Hebrews 5:11-14, distinguishing both right/true and wrong/false:
Real science, knowledge about realities compared to philosophies and stories
edit on 21-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2017 @ 02:20 PM
a reply to: whereislogic

The fact that I didn't type the tetragrammaton correctly is merely evidence that I don't believe in worshipping a name. In my opinion the tetragrammaton is merely a word that means God.

Much like Ahura Mazda, Brahman and Allah are merely words that mean God in the various languages. So even if I am wrong about the interpretation of his name that is also of no consequence to my belief.

What I am telling you -

You are worshiping a name.

I am worshipping the principles that the name stands for through obedience to his laws.

Your church teaches "Original Sin" which at it's core stands for man's inability to follow God's laws. Without obedience to God's laws how can anyone claim to follow God?

The Israelites do not believe in Original Sin, nor do I. The Israelites believe that after the age of 13 it is possible for a person to be 100% observant to God's laws, which is the teaching I believe is the truth. Paul himself claimed legalistic righteousness, 100 percent obedience to God's laws.

On judgement day who will be saved? Those who are obedient to God's laws? Or those who are disobedient to God's laws who call out a special name?

It is the principles behind the name that one is to follow. To say you worship Jehovah but do not obey his laws, you are no more a follower of Jehovah than a man who claims to be Vegan yet eats meat for dinner.

Every knee will bow to the name, merely because those are the names God choose for himself and his son.

Because you believe in Original Sin you are a sinner who finds it impossible to please God by following his laws. So you have substituted righteousness through obedience, with righteousness found in a name.

Because I do not believe in Original Sin, I find righteousness through obedience to his laws. I follow Jehovah, while Jehovah's witnesses remain sinful against Jehovah's laws until they die.

I do not follow men who claim that Satan, the voice of sin, is greater than the Holy Spirit, the voice of righteousness. I follow the Holy Spirit, the Christ who was without sin, who lives within me and guides me to the truth which is found through obedience.

Lucifer is the fallen son of the morning star. Lucifer was the son of Jesus, who is the morning star. In the same way Adam was created by Jesus who is YHWH.

Everything was created by, through and for the Son, except the Son who was created by his father.

Although I do not believe in the Catholic Trinity, I believe they are closer in understanding than the Jehovah's witnesses about the nature and character of Jesus Christ.
edit on 21-1-2017 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 22 2017 @ 12:08 AM

The video above has some clues at the start why some people (in this case especially Trinitarians and Binitarians that are attempting to conflate Jesus Christ, the Son of God with Jehovah God, his Father and his God) don't like to use bible quotations and teachings in their commentary about the subject of God's identity and other bible teachings that contradict their theosophies and theological doctrines (unless they can twist or misapply them for triggering conditioned mental responses in others, get them to think a certain way about a biblical subject; or use them as red herrings and responses to straw man arguments+paint jobs).

Isaiah really aptly prophecied about these people when he reported what Jehovah said: “This people approaches me with their mouth and they honor me with their lips, but their heart is far removed from me." With their mouth they claim they worship God and supposedly praise, love or honor Him (and take their information from the bible; adhere to the bible's teachings, obedient to God's laws, etc.) but won't even quote the bible (that contains these laws, commandments and teachings and the instructions for a proper methodology for worshipping, loving, praising, honoring and teaching about Jehovah God and his word, the bible) in support of their teachings and the expression of their beliefs/opinions/philosophies and theosophies, theological doctrines, commands of men; unless they can do some twisting as I desciribed above or leave a very superficial view (quoting 1 verse here or there along with misleading eisegesis, not showing the bigger picture that the bible and related evidence is showing).

Compare the last bolded part above with the bolded concepts below (and the concept of 'keeping people in the dark')...
Guard Against Being Deceived

Could any of us fall into the trap of being deceived? Sadly, the answer is yes. In truth, all of us are susceptible to such danger. And that includes the possibility of being deceived about our cherished religious beliefs—with potentially catastrophic consequences. Why is that so? How can you guard against being deceived?

The Dangers of Being Deceived

To deceive, says one dictionary, means “to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid.” It also implies “imposing a false idea or belief that causes ignorance, bewilderment, or helplessness.” The basic idea of the word, along with such other words as “mislead” and “delude,” is to lead someone astray by underhanded means. Surely, a person who is not aware that he or she is being kept in a state of “ignorance, bewilderment, or helplessness” by deliberate misinformation is in serious danger.

The really sad fact is that very often the person who is deceived or deluded tends to hold on to his belief in spite of strong evidence proving otherwise. Perhaps he gets so emotionally attached to his belief that he simply shuts his eyes and closes his ears to any evidence that might challenge it.

Are We in Danger?

‘Is it not an exaggeration to say that all of us are in danger of being deceived with regard to our religious beliefs?’ you might ask. No, it is not. This is because Satan the Devil, whom Jesus called “the father of the lie,” is bent on deceiving and deluding all of us. (John 8:44) Satan is also described in the Bible as “the god of this system of things.” He has “blinded the minds” of millions of people throughout history. (2 Corinthians 4:4) Even now, he is “misleading the entire inhabited earth.”—Revelation 12:9.

Satan began deceiving mankind at the very start of human history. For example, he deceived Eve into believing that she was not subject to the laws of her Creator and that she could “be like God, knowing good and bad,” that is, deciding for herself what was good and what was bad. (Genesis 3:1-5) That was the first great deception, for even though humans were given the freedom to choose what they would do, they were not created with the ability to determine for themselves what is right and what is wrong. Only God himself, as Creator and Sovereign, has that right and authority. (Jeremiah 10:23; Revelation 4:11) What a delusion to believe that the right to choose between good and bad means the right to determine what is good and what is bad! Unfortunately, we imperfect humans easily fall into that trap.

Note that this comes back to Hebrews 5:11-14, how to distinguish both right and wrong, both good and bad, both true and false, "How to recognize..." and choose wisely. And what tools Jehovah God has given humanity to use for that, which includes what's mentioned at Hebrews 4:11b, 12:

so that no one may fall into the same pattern of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.

And 2 Timothy 3:16,17:

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Also remember the fine example given by the people described at Acts 17:11 who were "carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so." Not sticking their heads in the sand or looking for excuses, cop-outs or persuasive arguments to talk past and distract from the plain unambiguous teachings from the bible, from Jehovah.

The third question in our consideration deserves our most careful attention. It is,
How can we walk with God? We find the answer at Isaiah 30:20, 21: “Your Grand Instructor will no longer hide himself, and your eyes must become eyes seeing your Grand Instructor. And your own ears will hear a word behind you saying: ‘This is the way. Walk in it, you people,’ in case you people should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.”

Will You Walk With God?

In what sense may you “hear a word behind you” from your Grand Instructor?

In Isa 30 verse 21, a different word picture is painted. Jehovah is depicted as walking behind his people, issuing directions on the right way to walk. Bible scholars have noted that this expression might be based on the way a shepherd sometimes follows his sheep, calling out to guide them and to keep them from going the wrong way. How does this word picture apply to us? Well, when we turn to God’s Word for guidance, we are reading words that were recorded thousands of years ago. They are coming from behind us, as it were, in the stream of time. Yet, they are just as relevant today as they were the day they were written. Bible counsel can guide us in our day-to-day decisions, and it can help us to map out the course of our life over the years to come. (Psalm 119:105) When we earnestly seek out such counsel and apply it, then Jehovah is our Guide. We are walking with God.

Psalms 23:1,3:

Jehovah is my Shepherd.

I will lack nothing.

3 He refreshes me.

He leads me in the paths of righteousness for the sake of his name.+

edit on 22-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 22 2017 @ 02:51 AM
Sometimes on top of what I described in the top half of my previous comment, comes some of this behaviour (as it is contrasted with the right way of doing things, thinking and spirit/attitude/feelings towards bible teachings and God's spirit, the wise way of doing things, etc.):

Proverbs 29:11
A stupid person gives vent to all his feelings,* [Lit., “spirit.”]
But the wise one calmly keeps them in check.
Proverbs 14
25 A true witness saves lives,
But a deceitful one lies with every breath.
26 There is strong confidence in the fear* of Jehovah, [*: Or "reverence for"]
And it will be a refuge for his children.
27 The fear* of Jehovah is a fountain of life,
To turn one away from the snares of death.
29 The one who is slow to anger has great discernment,
But the impatient one displays his foolishness.
31 The one who defrauds the lowly one insults his Maker,
But whoever shows compassion to the poor glorifies Him.
Proverbs 12:16
16 A fool immediately shows his annoyance,
But the shrewd man overlooks* an insult. [Lit., “covers over.”]
Proverbs 25:28
28 As a city broken through, without a wall,
Is the man who cannot control his temper.* [Or “who has no restraint for his spirit.”]
Proverbs 14:29
29 The one who is slow to anger has great discernment,
But the impatient one displays his foolishness.
Proverbs 16:32
32 The one slow to anger is better than a mighty man,
And the one controlling his temper than one conquering a city.
Proverbs 22:24, 25
24 Do not keep company with a hot-tempered man
Or get involved with one disposed to rage,
25 So that you never learn his ways
And ensnare yourself.

The bolded terminology "ensnare" or "snares" bringing us back to the many teachings and theosophies originating out of various false religions that are part of Babylon the Great, all variations (including perceived or claimed personal versions) of the Trinity or a triune God for example still originate from the same source: Babylon the Great.

Interesting choice of the source for the material about Miller and Russell (red herring, they don't matter in relation to my commentary and bible quotations) that Isurrender73 used though: Roman Catholic. Rather than using the bible as his/her source for his/her slander and misleading paint jobs (which should be honest bible teachings, "reproof" and "a [logical] reason for..." their beliefs and theological doctrines if someone claims he/she's obeying God's laws) he/she uses the same source he/she earlier had the following to say about:

Sorry you believe in a 1700 year old incorrect interpretation of the trinity brought to you by Constantine and his false church.

You really should stop telling everyone they are going to hell.
Meaning the entire church (every detonation) is lead by Narcissistic Sociopaths...

Note also the promotion of the theosophies* regarding the topic "hell" that were promoted in favor of the truths/facts from the bible about that subject in his Roman Catholic quotation without addressing any of the bible verses related to that subject that clear it up discussed in the video I shared about it earlier in response to someone else talking about "hell". *: by promoting and implying a straw man argument is wrong, false; watch the video to see how they are misrepresenting/doing a paintjob and presenting a straw man argument regarding that subject

Isaiah's prophecy (and Jesus' quotation of it) about hypocrites keeps on coming back to my mind, I wonder why...

For example, why would someone continue to click reply on someone else's commentary when they demonstrate no intention of replying to any of the main points, bible teachings and bible quotations in that commentary; but are demonstrating only an interest in presenting red herring subjects such as Miller and Russell, etc. for the propagandistic purpose of discrediting someone else's commentary (which again, is completely unrelated to Miller or Russell, Miller and Russell or the biased Catholic opinion and cunning misrepresentation of bible teachings or individuals they like to apply psychological projection to and teach, encourage others to do the same is not going to change what the bible is teaching).

Bringing us back to my comment that starts with (between brackets is an updated edit):

Just so we're clear whose position you're arguing for and whose attitudes regarding [God, God's Word, God's holy spirit, God's Law(s), God's truth, God's love, God's mercy, God's excellent character, God's righteousness, God's way for those who want to walk with God, God's "firstborn" Son "of all creation" + his teachings and] God's name you're expressing (see video below).

And the attempts at 'pushing certain buttons' in people described in the rest of the comment, which is a repetitive process that hasn't changed in the commentary, a standard tactic or modus operandi, pattern of behaviour in "persuasive" argumentation, reasoning, "profitless talk" (i.e. not beneficial teaching from God's word) and commentary.
I highly recommend that video and clicking my convenient link back to that comment for everyone who may read this to see what I'm talking about (the main point in that video is at the end, I also recommend watching it again if you've already seen it to see and understand what I'm talking about; kinda pointless reading my comments otherwise if you've gotten to this point anyway).
edit on 22-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 22 2017 @ 05:09 AM

It would really be a novelty for me if someone on ATS would actually respond/reply to the bible teachings discussed in the video above for example, preferrably with bible teachings that aren't twisted and are devoid of eisegesis (honest bible research is very welcome). Also note what's mentioned above at 3:04. Not once in all my commentary on ATS have I had such a response/reply to my commentary (including a video) I think. And that is especially telling in the case of those who claim to follow "God's law(s)", God's Word, the bible and God's commandments and way of walking "in righteousness" pointed out therein. Of course it is to be expected from those who have no respect (or "reverence for") God, God's law(s), God's name Jehovah and Jehovah God's word, the bible, etc. Of course most 'out of the closet' (that aren't demonstrating some of the verses about pretense and hypocrisy that I quoted) critics of the bible , God's Word, God's law(s), Jehovah's Word, critics of Jehovah God, Jehovah God's laws, won't hide their contempt for it, him and them behind claims of obeying or following God's laws while pointing fingers and painting pictures of others supposedly not doing so with derogatory terms such as "Ritual Salvation" and accusations of spreading fear, hate and intolerance (or closedminded bigotry without using that term directly, the paint job still clearly being there, also related to refusal to accept Pontius Pilate's way of thinking about the subject "truth" that I spoke about before; which opens up the door for some more paintjobs if one dares to speak out against that way of thinking, the keywords being "vagueness/uncertainty" and "interpretation" applied to something that is a well established fact/truth/certainty, as in well demonstrated by the evidence, logic and reason).

Law: Insight, Volume 2

“A divine commandment or a revelation of the will of God . . . the whole body of God’s commandments or revelations: the will of God . . . : a rule of right living or good conduct esp[ecially] when conceived as having the sanction of God’s will, of conscience or the moral nature, or of natural justice.”—Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, 1981.

The word “law,” in the Hebrew Scriptures, is translated primarily from the Hebrew word toh·rahʹ, related to the verb ya·rahʹ, meaning “direct, teach, instruct.” In some cases it is translated from the Aramaic term dath. (Da 6:5, 8, 15) Other words translated in the King James Version as “law” are mish·patʹ (judicial decision, judgment), and mits·wahʹ (commandment). In the Greek Scriptures the word noʹmos, from the verb neʹmo (deal out, distribute), is translated “law.”

Jehovah God is designated as the Source of law, the Supreme Lawgiver (Isa 33:22), the Sovereign, delegating authority (Ps 73:28; Jer 50:25; Lu 2:29; Ac 4:24; Re 6:10), without whose permission or allowance no authority can be exercised. (Ro 13:1; Da 4:35; Ac 17:24-31) His throne is established on righteousness and judgment. (Ps 97:1, 2) The stated will of God becomes law to his creatures.

With the above in mind Jehovah's words and warning given through his servant Paul that I quoted before where he uses the word "law" may make more sense now, God's will (as described throughout the entire bible, God's word, God's instructions, God's teachings, bible teachings) is the same as God's laws, allthough the term is broader and the term "law" has more specific applications that are discussed behind the ... on the page above. And in turn the term "bible teachings" is broader (but overlapping) with the the term "law" as it is used in the bible.
So in the quotation below you can also think (when reading "law") about the term "God's laws" or the concept of someone teaching or expressing arguments in the form of eisegesis about what it means to be "obedient to God's laws" and what is not being "obedient to God's laws", or otherwise phrased as God's will/law and the way he wants his followers to do things and what he doesn't want his followers to do (right way vs wrong way).
I'll quote a bit more from the context now, 1 Tim. 1:2b,3b,4a,5-7:

May you have undeserved kindness and mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
so I do now, in order for you to command certain ones not to teach different doctrine, 4 nor to pay attention to false stories
Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things, some have been turned aside to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of law, but they do not understand either the things they are saying or the things they insist on so strongly.

Oh, since this text came up in the first video of the first comment I made today, probably should have included the video and message from Jehovah below for all mankind:

edit on 22-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 29 2017 @ 10:06 AM
This song sort of follows up on the last video above (or more details about what's mentioned at the end):

Song 30 - Jehovah Begins His Rule

posted on Feb, 8 2017 @ 07:31 AM
Allthough this video has more (including helpful reminders how to distinguish both those who are being led by God's spirit and those who are being led by "the spirit of the world", it also has information about the NWO in part 3, the bible describes the power structure in human society quite different from the likes of Alex Jones, David Icke, Bill Cooper, Mark Dice, Alan Watts, Walter Veith, Jordan Maxwell or any of the self-professed Christians that address that subject):
the bible-accurate history reliable prophecy part 1 of 3

posted on Feb, 26 2017 @ 07:09 AM

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: Isurrender73
Talking about William Tyndale... in case you didn't know:

Historical background:

I forgot this Proverb before in relation to Proverbs 28:26. Proverbs 1:7:

The fear of* Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge. [*: Or “reverence for.”]

Only fools despise wisdom and discipline.

It's kinda hard to develop a reverence for Jehovah when you can't even bring yourself to spell out his full name in English when talking in English just like you can when talking about any other biblical character you have a reverence for like Jesus. And the mention of "discipline" comes back to the Proverb about reproof. Which doesn't have to be experienced as pleasant but it's advisable not to despise it so you can't actually hear it and one begins demonstrating Acts 7:51 (and 2 Timothy 4:3,4, etc.):

“Obstinate men and uncircumcised in hearts and ears, you are always resisting the holy spirit; as your forefathers did, so you do.

And Acts 28:24-27 (a recurring theme, see for example Isaiah 6:9,10; Jesus mentioning it at Matthew 13:13-15; Mark 4:11,12; John 12:40):

Some began to believe the things he said; others would not believe. 25 So because they disagreed with one another, they began to leave, and Paul made this one comment: “The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers, 26 saying, ‘Go to this people and say: “You will indeed hear but by no means understand, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 27 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn back and I heal them.”’

Isaiah 6:8,9:

Then I heard the voice of Jehovah saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” And I said: “Here I am! Send me!” 9 And he replied, “Go, and say to this people: ‘You will hear again and again, But you will not understand; You will see again and again, But you will not get any knowledge.’

There's more to be learned from history in relation to biblical subjects such as the identity of God (which would include his name as an identifier). See the information about the Geneva Bible and its use of the Divine name for example that I recently posted in the thread about three 16th century truth seekers, which I've expanded to include many other truth seekers from around that period which again relates to this thread about "how to recognize the spirit of God" which as I explained in detail involves distinguishing both right and wrong, true and false, light and darkness, etc. Which that information about the Geneva Bible in relation to the KJV or AV might help with.
edit on 26-2-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 28 2017 @ 04:32 PM
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Since you tested us, allow me to test you. What do you think of Paul the Apostle? We will see if the spirit of God / discernment is in you.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Christians persecuting other Christians?

Such a thing can only happen in the end times.

1. Christians persecuting Christians are not actually Christians.
2. The Crusades was done by a pagan cult in rome who stole the title and Hijacked the real Christian ways.

So those who do wrong are not real Christians.

How to know if the spirit of God dwells within Man?

Does he honor, love, thy neighbor?
Does he/she teach morals and love?
Does he/she know that Jesus is the only way?

a reply to: Akragon

lol Afraid not bud...

I just don't believe in the stuff Christianity is selling...

Belief is less then knowledge... and i know God exists...

Just not your version of it

You imply that God only dwells in Christians...

You Said here you don't believe in the Christian God, that is fine. The Christian God can only be found in the Christian Bible.

Perhaps you believe in Horus... Anubis.. or Zeus (choose one, it makes no difference to me cause I believe in the Christian God. The one that taught these words: )

Fulfilling the Law Through Love
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

That's the God I believe in.

But you are free to believe any other gods. My only duty is to warn you about that, and go along my way. (Which is the Christian way, not the crusaders way which is "die heathen!" no, they were false Christians too.

What I establish here however, is simply a divide of discernment. You have your beliefs which has nothing to do with Christianity and I accept that. But I hope you know that us "Christians" (i just dont like labels period; which is why I write that in between quotes) gave you the warning that if you get it wrong there are consequences. Even ridicule has its consequences, because of the stress.

But when you pass to the afterlife and you're there and Jesus is in front of you, you really have no excuse cause you turned Salvation away.

However if you do believe in "do as thou wilt" instead of the commandments of Jesus, then:

this is the god(dess) you believe in.

because she simply matches the idea that people can do what they want and not suffer consequences for it. (And that is certainly a lie. But What do I know?)

edit on th2017000000Tuesdayth000000Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:43:28 -0600fAmerica/ChicagoTue, 28 Feb 2017 16:43:28 -0600 by SoulSurfer because: (no reason given)

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