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How to recognize the spirit of God.

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posted on Jan, 14 2017 @ 06:10 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: DeathSlayer


So what I said .....was let every man be a liar than call God's word a lie.... you know the words that came out of his mouth.



which is.. "the bible"

basically saying IF anyone finds error in said book... they're lying...



Not a very good try at attacking the bible. This cheap trick is as old as the bible.....


im not attacking anything...

i just reiterated your quote...

I can't fix the fact that Paul sucks



I do not care about Paul, but I do care about his message. I am not concerned about the SMALL mistranslations in the bible, I am focusing on the message of the bible ..... how to get home .....

We ALL have fears..... and anyone who says differently is a liar.

You want to know what my biggest fear is..... not hell or heaven or terrorists etc..... Only one thing ..... that my God and creator rejects me.

Hell is nothing to me .... for I believe the pain of God rejecting me would be more painful than suffering in hell. Knowing your creator wants nothing to do with you .... to me that is fear for does it not say Fear the Lord thy God? and rightfully so.... for who else can kill both the body and soul of man? No one....

EDIT LATER: I would rather Run and hide in hell then be told that I failed and disappointed the one true God. Can you understand this?


edit on 14-1-2017 by DeathSlayer because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 14 2017 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer

I don't think you get it.

I think your God is a complete hypocrite who I would sooner spit on than worship.

What does this thread have to do with my belief/opinion of Christianity? Because you keep taking it back there like it's about that when it isn't.

...

You wanted to talk about false teachers. So did I. Within the context of your beliefs and not my lack thereof. You want to keep the discussion very narrow and preachy. And apparently off subject.



posted on Jan, 14 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: DeathSlayer


So what I said .....was let every man be a liar than call God's word a lie.... you know the words that came out of his mouth.



which is.. "the bible"

basically saying IF anyone finds error in said book... they're lying...



Not a very good try at attacking the bible. This cheap trick is as old as the bible.....


im not attacking anything...

i just reiterated your quote...

I can't fix the fact that Paul sucks



I do not care about Paul, but I do care about his message. I am not concerned about the SMALL mistranslations in the bible, I am focusing on the message of the bible ..... how to get home .....

We ALL have fears..... and anyone who says differently is a liar.

You want to know what my biggest fear is..... not hell or heaven or terrorists etc..... Only one thing ..... that my God and creator rejects me.

Hell is nothing to me .... for I believe the pain of God rejecting me would be more painful than suffering in hell. Knowing your creator wants nothing to do with you .... to me that is fear for does it not say Fear the Lord thy God? and rightfully so.... for who else can kill both the body and soul of man? No one....

EDIT LATER: I would rather Run and hide in hell then be told that I failed and disappointed the one true God. Can you understand this?



I do understand that actually...

And i respect your honesty...




posted on Jan, 14 2017 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer






You want to know what my biggest fear is..... not hell or heaven or terrorists etc..... Only one thing ..... that my God and creator rejects me.



Have you studied the Outer Darkness? The place for believers who will not partake in the Millennial Reign.



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 01:49 AM
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originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Isurrender73

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Please explain the above where the word was WITH God and the WORD was God.


In the beginning the Father/God created his Son, the Word of God. The Son was with his Father.

The Son is our God, because the Son created man. The Father did not create Adam. Jesus, who is YWHW the Son of God, created Adam.


Like 18:19
Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.


Why do you call YWHW/Jesus/The Light/The Holy Spirit/ The Son of God good. The Father created his Son. Jesus who is the Son of God is good because he was created by his Father to be perfect in wisdom.

The reason Genesis is written in plural is because Jesus is the Son of God, the Spiritual Light/Holy Spirit created when his father said let there be Light, before the natural light of the sun and stars.

The Son was with the Father in the beginning.

The father is without beginning or end.


Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN over all creation.


The father was not born or created. Jesus was the FIRSTBORN to represent his father in the image of a man. But Jesus is a creation of his Father.

There is no other way to reconcile the trinity other than to accept that Jesus Christ is the physical and spiritual Son of God. Jesus is the name given to the Flesh, the Holy Spirit/Light is the name given to the Spirit. And the Father is superior as the creator.

Jesus is the Son and Holy Spirt. God is his father.

This is what Jesus claimed in clear words. The Catholic Trinity stands in direct contradiction to what Jesus plainly said about himself.

What I claim contradicts no verse in any scriptures. The way I understand the scriptures allows for Jesus's words to be without the contradiction created by a convoluted interpretation based on the misunderstandings of Constantine's church.

What I say contradicts what you were taught at church, but nothing I say contradicts the words Jesus plainly used to describe himself.

What is more likely?

Our Savior left a confusing message about his identity by claiming his Father was greater than he was.

Or men who claimed that Constantine and the Pope had authority over all living souls misunderstood the scriptures 1700 years ago and created the confusion through lack of understanding?

I don't think Jesus Christ, My Savior, said anything confusing. I believe he is the Son of God and the Father is his creator.


Jesus is the one and only Son of the Father. We can be adopted as sons into his Father's kingdom through faith in the Holy Spirit/Jesus Christ/The Son who lives within us.


edit on 15-1-2017 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2017 @ 02:09 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: DeathSlayer


So what I said .....was let every man be a liar than call God's word a lie.... you know the words that came out of his mouth.



which is.. "the bible"

basically saying IF anyone finds error in said book... they're lying...



Not a very good try at attacking the bible. This cheap trick is as old as the bible.....


im not attacking anything...

i just reiterated your quote...

I can't fix the fact that Paul sucks



I do not care about Paul, but I do care about his message. I am not concerned about the SMALL mistranslations in the bible, I am focusing on the message of the bible ..... how to get home .....

We ALL have fears..... and anyone who says differently is a liar.

You want to know what my biggest fear is..... not hell or heaven or terrorists etc..... Only one thing ..... that my God and creator rejects me.

Hell is nothing to me .... for I believe the pain of God rejecting me would be more painful than suffering in hell. Knowing your creator wants nothing to do with you .... to me that is fear for does it not say Fear the Lord thy God? and rightfully so.... for who else can kill both the body and soul of man? No one....

EDIT LATER: I would rather Run and hide in hell then be told that I failed and disappointed the one true God. Can you understand this?



I do understand that actually...

And i respect your honesty...



Amen



posted on Jan, 16 2017 @ 06:46 AM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73
The Son is our God, because the Son created man. The Father did not create Adam. Jesus, who is YWHW the Son of God, created Adam.

Genesis 1:27:
And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.

Jesus about the subject himself:

Matthew 19:4
4 In reply he said: “Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female

If Jesus was talking about himself creating man(kind), why would he say "the one who created them"? Jesus is crystal clear who he's talking about there: "Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart." (verse 6)

Again, why doesn't he say "what I have yoked together"? How much clearer does he need to get that he's talking about someone else? The same one he refers to as "my God" (John 20:17) and "Jehovah" when he's quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures as recorded at Matthew 4:10 and Luke 4:8.
edit on 16-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2017 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Jesus takes the same title Lord that was given to YWHW in the OT. If Jesus is not Lord then his claim is blasphemous. If Jesus was blasphemous then he was not the Christ.

Jesus is quoting the scriptures to those who did not believe he was their Lord or the Christ. He chose to quote the scriptures in the third person to show them that they were incorrect in their interpretation.

You are making too much out of his decision to quote the scriptures in the third person and completely disregarding his claim to be the Lord.

He was clear YWHW was the one who created man. He was clear that he was the Lord of the Israelites. Again he is either YWHW or blasphemous.


edit on 17-1-2017 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2017 @ 11:41 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73
The title Lord was never given to Jehovah. However the title and position "Lord" was given to Jesus by Jehovah exactly as the bible states (meaning he did not carry that title prior to receiving it from his God and Father Jehovah). There are many lords and gods mentioned in the bible, none of these are equated with Jehovah to accomodate someone's theosophy and theological doctrines. Lord is just a noun, like teacher, master, king, servant and son; all of which are applied to different individuals mentioned in the bible and none of these are equated with Jehovah or Jesus just because they also are a Lord or a King or a teacher or a servant (by those arguing their theosophies, so why doesn't that way of reasoning count in those cases? Why apply such reasoning so inconsistently and conveniently, only in the case of Jesus and Jehovah?). Saying just "Lord" or "King" doesn't tell you anything specific about the identity, which Lord? Which King?

Jesus has his own unique name.

Jehovah has his own unique name. Quit it with the conflation please of 2 individuals that are cleary distinguished in the bible hundreds if not thousands of times.

The name Jehovah does not translate to "lord", "Lord" or "LORD". There already is a Hebrew word for that and it doesn't look remotely like Jehovah (Hebrew after transliteration to the Roman Alphabet: Yehowah, see MT).

There's a hidden contradiction btw at the end there (that you might not have noticed yourself), you said the opposite to what Jesus said about who created man(kind) in your previous comment.

He was clear YWHW was the one who created man.

Indeed, now how about you? Cause you end up contradicting yourself since Jesus is Jesus, not YHWH or Jehovah (a name only applied to his Father and his God in the bible). Not to mention that Jesus was clearly talking about someone else creating man(kind), not himself, so you can't just ignore that and equate Jesus with YHWH (or Jehovah if you also quit it with the silly game of not writing out the full name just like you're doing with the name Jesus, why won't you say YHSHH instead of Jesus as well to keep your logic consistent? Jesus' name in the old Hebrew language also has no vowel marks, but then it's ok to translate and say Jesus right?). Earlier you said:

The Father did not create Adam.


Servetus and the Name Jehovah

Servetus’ quest for the truth also led him to use the name Jehovah. Some months after William Tyndale employed this name in his translation of the Pentateuch, Servetus published On the Errors of the Trinity—in which he used the name Jehovah throughout. He explained in this work: “The other name, the most holy of all, יהוה, . . . can be interpreted as follows, . . . ‘He causes to be,’ ‘he who brings into being,’ ‘the cause of existence.’” He noted: “The name of Jehovah can properly apply only to the Father.”

In 1542, Servetus also edited the renowned Latin translation of the Bible by Santes Pagninus (shown below). In his extensive marginal notes, Servetus highlighted the divine name again. He included the name Jehovah in the marginal references to key texts such as Psalm 83:18, where the word for “Lord” appeared in the main text.

In his final work, The Restitution of Christianity, Servetus stated regarding the divine name, Jehovah: “[It] is clear . . . that there were many who pronounced this name in ancient times.”

Source: Michael Servetus—A Solitary Quest for the Truth: Awake!—2006
Btw, the Hebrew characters depicted above: יהוה
transliterate to YHWH in the Roman Alphabet.

What's so honest about substituting God's name with the generic noun "the LORD" as was done in the main text Servetus had to work with regarding that Latin translation? Especially if there already is a word for "lord" in Hebrew: adonai (which doesn't look remotely like Yehowah, so you can't accidentily make such a mistake, it has to be deliberate deception). I know, most people are just going to stick their head in the sand regarding the information in the videos below and act like they don't know any better. I've shared these videos many times already, convenient willful ignorance so they don't have to be honest with themselves or others about it and can keep spreading misinformation about it:
nikkie2christ & Barbsinclair (The KJV is inconsistent p 1)
nikkie2christ & Barbsinclair ( The KJV is inconsistent p 2)
The name Jehovah and its theophoric names.
East-Indian deafness. Just play dumb like they don't know any better*. Tiresome...

Pardon the expression, I'm not calling anyone dumb, it's an expression regarding willful ignorance, playing dumb. It's not meant as an attack, slander or attempt to discredit anyone or deride anyone (derogatory). It's an attempt to wake people up with a hard shake and slap in the face. Just getting a bit impatient with people willfully sticking their head in the sand so they can continue to spread misinformation about Jehovah and the bible. Oh btw, I think you were born with great thinking abilities, just like every other human out there, someone is screwing around with it though. In short, people are playing dumb (as conditioned by this system of things and the spirit of the world), but they're smarter than this. Now it comes down to honesty (especially with oneself*).

*: just try to keep this in mind when doing self-reflection:
Jeremiah 17:9,10
The heart is more treacherous* than anything else and is desperate.* Who can know it?
10 I, Jehovah, am searching the heart,
Examining the innermost thoughts,*
To give to each one according to his ways,
According to the fruitage of his works.


*: Or “deceitful.”
*: Or possibly, “incurable.”
*: Or “deepest emotions.” Lit., “kidneys.”

Proverbs 28:26
26 Whoever trusts in his own heart is stupid, But the one who walks in wisdom will escape.
Proverbs 14:12
12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But in the end it leads to death.


And if some of my words at the end do leave the wrong impression (I tried to explain why I used the word "dumb" as to not leave the wrong impression)...
Proverbs 27:5,6
5 Open reproof is better than concealed love.
6 The wounds inflicted by a friend are faithful,
But an enemy’s kisses are plentiful.

edit on 18-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2017 @ 01:57 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73
Bonus videos that 'nobody' wants to see
(demonstrating 2 Timothy 4:3,4 in the process and many other bible verses)

Jn 17,6, 11, 26 How Did Jesus Make the Name of God Known p.1
Jn 17,6, 11, 26 How Did Jesus Make the Name of God Known P2

Just in case there is someone out there that does want to follow the wise counsel at 1 Thess 5:21:

Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.

Regarding my earlier mention of Jesus being appointed as Lord by Jehovah (Acts 2:36, quoted at 4:27 in the video below; inaccurate misleading information from 2:22-2:33, please ignore that part; some confusing way of talking at 3:19-3:25 unless you think it through how he really means that; slightly confusing way of putting it at 5:08-5:14. It's not one of his best videos, the rest is crucial to understand though):
Is Jesus Just "a god" Like Others are Called "gods"? Part 2
edit on 18-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2017 @ 04:30 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73
Talking about William Tyndale... in case you didn't know:

Historical background:

I forgot this Proverb before in relation to Proverbs 28:26. Proverbs 1:7:

The fear of* Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge. [*: Or “reverence for.”]

Only fools despise wisdom and discipline.


It's kinda hard to develop a reverence for Jehovah when you can't even bring yourself to spell out his full name in English when talking in English just like you can when talking about any other biblical character you have a reverence for like Jesus. And the mention of "discipline" comes back to the Proverb about reproof. Which doesn't have to be experienced as pleasant but it's advisable not to despise it so you can't actually hear it and one begins demonstrating Acts 7:51 (and 2 Timothy 4:3,4, etc.):

“Obstinate men and uncircumcised in hearts and ears, you are always resisting the holy spirit; as your forefathers did, so you do.

And Acts 28:24-27 (a recurring theme, see for example Isaiah 6:9,10; Jesus mentioning it at Matthew 13:13-15; Mark 4:11,12; John 12:40):

Some began to believe the things he said; others would not believe. 25 So because they disagreed with one another, they began to leave, and Paul made this one comment: “The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers, 26 saying, ‘Go to this people and say: “You will indeed hear but by no means understand, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 27 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn back and I heal them.”’

Isaiah 6:8,9:

Then I heard the voice of Jehovah saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” And I said: “Here I am! Send me!” 9 And he replied, “Go, and say to this people: ‘You will hear again and again, But you will not understand; You will see again and again, But you will not get any knowledge.’
edit on 18-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2017 @ 07:02 AM
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With the following in mind...
Proverbs 27:5,6
5 Open reproof is better than concealed love.
6 The wounds inflicted by a friend are faithful,
But an enemy’s kisses are plentiful.

Hebrews 5:11-14:
11 We have much to say about him [Jesus], and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. 12 For although by now* you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. 13 For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

*: Lit., “in view of the time.”
*: Or “their perceptive powers.”

I recommend stopping the video below before 2:35 so as not to be distracted with the misconception that Babylon the Great is limited to the Vatican (or the Roman Catholic Hierarchy, whichever term you prefer).

edit on 18-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2017 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

I understand what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. And I am sorry that I used YWHW instead of YHWH. It's been a while since I used the tetragrammaton.

I also understand how the translations changing the name from the tetragrammaton make it difficult to understand what is clearly written. I have never read through the "Name of God" Bible translation which in my opinion is the most accurate for answering these questions.

YHWH Elohim is the Jewish rendition. I believe they understood the name of their God and it never needed to be, nor should it have been interpreted any other way.


Philippians 2:10

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,



Isaiah 45

23 I have bound myself with an oath.
A word has gone out from my righteous mouth
that will not be recalled,
“Every knee will bow to me
and every tongue will swear allegiance.”
24 It will be said of me,
“Certainly, righteousness and strength are found in YHWH alone.”


There are several references where Jesus assumes the same title and authority as YHWH. These references would be blasphemous if Jesus is not YHWH. Verses like the above are the reason the Catholic church settled on the Trinity. Even if Lord is an incorrect interpretation you can see clearly in these verses that Jesus is made equal to YHWH, because Jesus is YHWH.

To believe that the correct pronunciation of a name is where the actual power comes from is a form of Ritual Salvation.

Each Christian denomination is certain that their understanding of the Rituals is the only way to worship God correctly. Every denomination certain that it's their Ritualistic approach alone that can earn Election.

I refuse to believe in any form of Ritual Salvation.

Jehovah, Yahweh, Lord. All interpretation of the tetragrammaton. None are better or worse. The correct interpretation will always be the tetragrammaton, without any additional characters needed.

Jehovah's witnesses suffer from the same delusion as all other denomination. The delusion that God's Grace is applied in a special way to those who follow the proper Ritualistic ideology.

The truth.

The Elect are those, who by faith, use their freewill to obey the laws of God. This is not a Ritualistic ideology, but a rather simple to understand psychological truth. Those who remain in disobedience to God's laws stand against God. Those who are obedient stand with God.


Obedience to Love is the narrow path to God, because God is Love. 1 John 4:8 & 4:16

All other forms of worship lead to Ritualistic Self Righteousness. Which is an ideology born out of the Pagan ideology of multiple God's and Ritualistic obedience.

Jesus is YHWH or what is written about him in the NT is blasphemous to YHWH of the OT.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are incorrect, just like every other denomination that believes the Elect are choosen through Ritualistic righteousness, the self righteousness that leads to a false sense of Election and subsequent condemnation of those who do not practice the same Rituals.

Neither a Ritual, nor the correct pronunciation of a name leads to salvation. Righteousness is earned through obedience to God's laws alone. However, God's Grace is for everyone, because it is God's Grace alone that can save a man.


edit on 18-1-2017 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2017 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73
Just so we're clear whose position you're arguing for and whose attitudes regarding God's name you're expressing (see video below). In your case it's just more the variant of 'obscuring and painting the subject as being more vague than it really is by using the terminology "interpretation" as if it's not valid and can be put on equal footing as or is comparable to the noun "lord" which is not even an honest interpretation, it's just a lie/falsehood'; using the same way of arguing and distracting from the main points as demonstrated in the 2 videos I shared about the KJV pretending this is about using a specific spelling and combining that with painting a picture involving the term "Ritual Salvation" while either playing ignorant or willfully staying ignorant of the crystal clear information about the Hebrew word for "lord" and the difference with God's name in Hebrew in the 3 videos I said people were going to continue to ignore* as if they don't exist, clearly showing this has nothing to do with "interpretation" and that that word is just used as a cop-out, distraction/red herring. *: as in not acknowledging the facts/truths/certainties discussed therein

You want to think of (and argue) that subject as not being clear, in so doing denying the clarity of the Scriptures in favor of human traditions and teachings, theosophies and theological doctrines derived from Pagan (Greek, Platonic, Babylonian, Egyptian, etc.) philosophy, the teachings of men. Cause acknowledging it's clear (and not "interpretation") presents major issues for those. This also counts for the deception involving those bible translators continuing to use "the LORD", "God" and several other substitutes for God's name in their bible translations (and the continued misleading teachings by those using those translations regarding this subject). It is basically the same as when Pontius Pilatus cynically asked Jesus: "What is truth?"

He didn't want to know a real answer. Some people prefer to think that everyone has their own interpretation anyway, so you can't be sure about anything (especially theological matters), and stick with whatever you want to believe even if someone shows you it's clearly wrong. It's very convenient for denial of established facts or using Newton's terminology, "certain Truths", denying reality, that which is true/factual/certain. You just tell yourself it isn't clear, certain. Philosophical naturalists, agnostics, atheists and people in the other religions in the world do it too. Satan is the one who likes things vague and unclear, confusing, making people susceptible to 'being carried away with every wind of teaching' and not 'making sure of all things and holding fast to what is fine'+'examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so'+'through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong' (take an IQ-test and there is only 1 correct answer every time and the rest are false/untrue/incorrect; synonyms for correct: true/certain/correct, without error/conclusive/absolute/factual). "God is a God of order, not confusion", quoting Newton who I think was quoting from the bible but I'm not sure if he was quoting directly; truth is not something that is vague, God is also the God of truth; and God is love; love rejoices with the truth, not mystery and vagueness; influential Trinitarians themselves call it the mystery of the Trinity, there are all sorts of alarm bells ringing here; does the bible anywhere say that "God is a mystery"? Who is the Father of "mysteries", a synonym for "lies/contradictions/paradoxes/nonsense; such as your earlier cop-out that Jesus was talking in the 3rd person, I'm sorry, I just couldn't respond to that kind of reasoning, what's there to do if the bible is so clear and someone desperately tries to interpret it that way? Conveniently ignoring my mention of Jesus using the phrase "my God" as well; I guess you'll have to come up with another one for that one; I already heard a couple in my lifetime, the easiest one is just temporarily split Jesus and Jehovah up again in the line of arguing, why is it so hard to just accept what the bible is clearly teaching? That Jesus has a God that he calls "my God" and "Jehovah" and "my Father" and "your Father" and "your God"; and that's not even discussing all the times the rest of the bible writers distinguish between the 2 individuals.

It's like the way Eugenie C. Scott argues regarding Haeckel's fraud (you don't want to see the deception, you want to talk past it, pretend it's not clear that there is a major deception going on, and point to the 'mountain of evidence' that supposedly still proves your philosophies/ideas/beliefs right, which in actuality is a house of cards):

'Nothing to see here', please look away, that's the idea behind the behaviour and way of arguing (these 2 videos show a lot of similarities but there are also some subtle differences, especially the Trinitarians are more cunning in their way of arguing and drawing attention away from the real issue here, that this is a sign of a bigger deception, the tip of the iceberg or a glimpse of the house of cards proven beyond any shadow of a reasonable doubt, just biased desperate but cunning attempts to ignore the problem and "deceiving yourselves with false reasoning", James 1:22):

I couldn't quite fit in the video with the topic of the word "mystery" and "confusion" in relation to this subject but just read back in the middle of the big paragraph:

edit on 18-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2017 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73
More Trinitarians admitting that the Trinity is a "mystery" (synonyms with a variety of nuances in meaning, see Thesaurus.com and search the words on multiple pages or my comment in the thread about "knowledge" in the philosophy and metaphysics forum: paradox/nonsense/contradiction/error/mistake, lie/falsehood/fabrication/myth, imagination/idea/philosophy; these are not all direct synonyms after the commas, see detailed description in earlier mentioned comment to see if I remember it right):

And I'll just repeat Jesus' words from the last video of my previous comment cause they're so appropiate in this situation and I'm afraid people might miss it, as quoted from the KJV also known as the Authorized Version (AV). John 8:54,55:

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Now from the NW:

54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me,+ the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him,+ but I know him.+ And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.
edit on 18-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: Justso
...

So confusing-and no one knows any answers-if you say you do-you are just a liar.

There are people out there that are real truth seekers that actually believe that you can figure out the truth/reality of a matter such as God's exact identity and name with 100% certainty. As well as how to distinguish right/true from wrong/false. Kind of pointless to be a truth seeker and not believe in that (or trying to figure out the reality of anything, the fact/truth of the matter). 'Let God be found true even if every man be found a liar', 'your Word is truth' (Jesus referring to the bible, his Father Jehovah's Word, a.k.a. the Scriptures). It's those who want to keep you in darkness that don't want you to figure things out with certainty and clarity. The Scriptures, properly studied and researched, can clear a lot of ambiguous or unclear stuff up and show you the way:


New Song - Kingdom Melody 144 - It means their life ( JW.ORG ) Lyrics
Song 153: How Does It Make You Feel?
If anyone feels I talk too much, the song above explains as well as my signature: "Love rejoices with the truth!" It makes me glad and I rejoice with speaking about things I'm very convinced of as being true/correct, without error (all the more the more sure I am about something). Keeping that in mind my quotations of Proverbs 27:5,6:
5 Open reproof is better than concealed love.
6 The wounds inflicted by a friend are faithful,
But an enemy’s kisses are plentiful.


Might make more sense as well. Oh and of course because Jesus commanded to do so:
Song 141 Searching for Friends of Peace (with lyrics)
New Song - Kingdom Melody 148 - You Gave Your Only-Begotten Son ( jw.org ) lyrics
In regards to the topic of the video above (and song 149), here's something Trinitarians like to do when talking about Jehovah's witnesses:
Paul Washer & October31st1517 vs The Bible
The bible's message, the highlights in under 10 minutes (in relation to things mentioned in the video above again):
Paradise Earth Restored by Jesus the Firstborn of Jehovah
edit on 18-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2017 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Are you a child of God and is his spirit inside you?

Regarding whether or not God's active force, the holy spirit, is operating inside you (spiritually or mentally speaking), a person could see if they understand Jesus' words at Matthew 25:34-40 accurately (what Paul would call an accurate or full knowledge of truth) and whether his words touch your heart (with that understanding who Jesus is talking about and who he's addressing directly). A text on which this song is based:



posted on Jan, 18 2017 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Just so we are clear. You are arguing that following God by the correct name makes someone the elect.

While I am arguing that the name is practically irrelevant. The elect follow the laws of God, by whatever name they choose to use.

Over emphasizing a name is Ritualistic.

I Will repeat the truth. The Elect are those, who by faith, use their freewill to obey the laws of God. This is not a Ritualistic ideology, but a rather simple to understand psychological truth.

Those who remain in disobedience to God's laws stand against God.

Those who are obedient stand with God.


Obedience to Love has nothing to do with a name.

Maybe you need to read the Good Samaritan and realize it isn't the one who performs the same ritual as you or believes what you believe that is your neighborhood, your friend, your brother. It's the one who shows you love that deserves these titles.



edit on 18-1-2017 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 02:56 AM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: whereislogic
You are arguing that following God by the correct name makes someone the elect.

Nope: straw man argument


While I am arguing that the name is practically irrelevant. The elect follow the laws of God, by whatever name they choose to use.

Red herring. Of course that happens if you start with a straw man argument.

Over emphasizing a name is Ritualistic.

Paintjob.

I Will repeat the truth.

You can only repeat something if it has been said before.

The Elect are those, who by faith, use their freewill to obey the laws of God. This is not a Ritualistic ideology, but a rather simple to understand psychological truth.

One of which is to praise his name and be honest (including about that subject), not make it more vague out of convenience for the promotion of theosophies and selective agnosticism (East-Indian deafness as it's said in the Netherlands).

Those who remain in disobedience to God's laws stand against God.

Those who are obedient stand with God.

Just like those who praise Jehovah's holy name vs those who obscure it. One of those laws or commandments of Jehovah God. The bible also describes those who stand against Jehovah as those who "intend to make my people forget my name" (Jehovah speaking at Jeremiah 23:27).

Obedience to Love has nothing to do with a name.

"Obedience to Love"? Is that a red herring or straw man argument, I never used that term, or are you just introducing a new one?

Maybe you need to read the Good Samaritan and realize it isn't the one who performs the same ritual as you or believes what you believe that is your neighborhood, your friend, your brother. It's the one who shows you love that deserves these titles.

Love rejoices with the truth (1 Cor.13:6), not mysteries and attempts at making things less clear and distract from the clarity that is found in the Scriptures regarding the subjects I spoke about. The subject you suddenly don't want to say much about anymore and leave in the darkness (the area where things aren't crystal clear and obvious) as you express your theosophies and paint jobs involving the term "ritual" using straw man arguments and red herrings. Not really responding to what I'm saying or the points I'm making after first changing it in your mind to something you can more easily disagree with and paint your "ritual..." paint job on.

None of which is going to change the reality of God's name "Jehovah" to "Jesus" or "Lord". Or justifies the use of cop-out excuses to deny or talk past the facts/certainties/truths taught about God's identity in the bible (regarding stuff about talking in 3rd person for example) or make my main point about exact spelling, which is just a straw man and red herring cause that's not among the points I'm making. The bible itself teaches the importance of God's name as the previous videos showed by quoting many bible verses about the subject (especially the video "The name Jehovah and its theophoric names" towards the end and the videos about how Jesus made the name of God known, John 17:6, 26; actually you're mostly just doing the same routine as Shazooloo as described in those 2 videos). I'll leave one example of such a verse (and related verses), Romans 10:13:

For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”

Divine Name King James Bible:

For whosoever shall call upon the name of ...( Jehovah Jol 2:31,32 2Ti 2:19 ) shall be saved.

This is a quotation from the Hebrew Scriptures (for those who want to argue that God's name Jehovah does not appear in the Greek manuscripts at Romans 10:13 and conveniently ignore all the historical and archeological evidence regarding the deception committed by those who replaced God's name with the Greek word for "lord" in those copies of manuscripts, and the plain logic that the inspired bible writer Paul would not lie and intentionally misquote the Hebrew Scriptures because of following Jewish superstition not to pronounce or write down the divine name in bible translations and copies).
Joel 2:32
32 And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, just as Jehovah has said, The survivors whom Jehovah calls.”
Acts 2:21
21 And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”’


The DNKJB also has Jehovah there (but regarding Joël above without the misinformation regarding the term "the LORD" that I left out of my previous quotation of Romans 10:13 from the DNKJB).

I get the feeling the bible is contradicting what you're arguing for in relation to the subjects of God's name Jehovah and salvation (or being saved) or the other verses in the bible that I didn't use here that further stresses the importance of God's name Jehovah and to declare it, tell people about him, praise him, sanctify that name, etc.

I hope you won't see my example above as an excuse to start quoting other verses in the bible about the subject of salvation or being saved, cause that would just be another red herring and fighting a straw man or Don Quijote Windmill Giant. Whetever else you quote on that side issue is not going to negate the above anyway no matter how much a person argues and talks in a way to distract from the main point here and move on to other topics that are involved in "salvation" or "being saved". The importance of people having an accurate knowledge of God's name Jehovah (and all truths/facts/certainties related to that, including subjects such as who is his "firstborn of all creation" is, "the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God", Rev. 3:14) was being discussed there and in the videos I pointed towards. Not every subject involved with "salvation" or "being saved" (and that was just an example anyway, there are many more examples regarding the importance of God's name where the topic of "salvation" or "being saved" doesn't come up directly which I alluded to with verbs such as "sanctify" and "declare", 'making it known' just like Jesus did and giving more information about the identity of the God of Jesus so that people can become his friend, you usually start with a name and don't keep referring to them as "hey you" or "hey Man/Woman"; that's not a polite way to get to know someone or demonstrate that you have any intention of doing so, especially if you keep doing it after they tell you their name numerous times).
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 05:16 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73
What's also not a good way to become Jehovah's friend is to continuously and stubbornly confuse him for someone else because of ignoring his word (and assist others to do the same; or nudge them in that direction; advertently or inadvertently or in combination with willfull ignorance which I can't quite count as inadvertently but because "this system of things" and "the spirit of the world" have great influence on this I'm not sure I can call it advertently/deliberate either; I guess I could mention it's just an effect of being misled in the first place and then ending up arguing for something that isn't true about Jehovah and his word, the bible; and arguing against what IS true about Jehovah and the bible, which includes obscuring those truths/facts, making them appear less certain and more like an interpretation of a particular group of people that humanity has been nicely conditioned against taking seriously, and conditioned against treating them without the disdain and the feeling of mental and spiritual superiority over them that fuels the attitude of not wanting to seriously hear someone out, really listen to what they're saying and "carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so", Acts 17:11. Without looking for excuses and further paint jobs or trying to fit the person mentioning these facts/truths into that paint job to dismiss what is described at 2 Timothy 4:3,4 as "beneficial teaching"). Mind you, the beneficial teaching in the song below is all based on the Scriptures including Psalms 15, which starts with the questions:

O Jehovah, who may be a guest in your tent?

Who may reside in your holy mountain?


Of course some people's true colors demonstrate that so far in their lives they have never had any intention of becoming God's friend/Jehovah's friend or accepting his word as being true/certain/correct, without error/factual/conclusive/absolute, clear/clear-cut/unambiguous/specific/absolute/definite/sure. That's what the bible also talks about when it says...

For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul* and spirit,* and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And there is not a creation that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of the one to whom we must give an account.
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold on to our public declaration of him.


Oh, and that demonstration comes back to the topic of the OP title. "How to recognize..."
I have also posted some related verses from the bible about that speaking about subjects such as being stiff-necked (or obstinate), unwilling to hear, investigate, acknowledge or accept something about God and the bible that is true ('uncircumcised in hearts and ears'). What I haven't mentioned yet is...

How can you protect yourself from the types of people that the Bible calls “profitless talkers” and “deceivers of the mind”? (Titus 1:10) Once you are familiar with some of their tricks, you are in a better position to evaluate any message or information that comes your way. Here are some ways to do this.
...
Use discernment: Discernment is “acuteness of judgment.” It is “the power or faculty of the mind by which it distinguishes one thing from another.” A person with discernment perceives subtleties of ideas or things and has good judgment.

Using discernment, we will be able to recognize those who are merely using “smooth talk and complimentary speech” in order to “seduce the hearts of guileless ones.” (Romans 16:18) Discernment enables you to discard irrelevant information or misleading facts and distinguish the substance of a matter. But how can you discern when something is misleading?

Put information to the test: “Beloved ones,” said John, a first-century Christian teacher, “do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions.” (1 John 4:1) Some people today are like sponges; they soak up whatever they come across. It is all too easy to absorb whatever is around us.

But it is far better for each individual personally to choose what he will feed his mind. It is said that we are what we eat, and this can apply to food for both the body and the mind. No matter what you are reading or watching or listening to, test to see whether it has propagandistic overtones or is truthful.

Moreover, if we want to be fair-minded, we must be willing to subject our own opinions to continual testing as we take in new information. We must realize that they are, after all, opinions. Their trustworthiness depends on the validity of our facts, on the quality of our reasoning, and on the standards or values that we choose to apply.

Ask questions: As we have seen, there are many today who would like to ‘delude us with persuasive arguments.’ (Colossians 2:4) Therefore, when we are presented with persuasive arguments, we should ask questions.

First, examine whether there is bias. What is the motive for the message? If the message is rife with name-calling and loaded words, why is that? Loaded language aside, what are the merits of the message itself? Also, if possible, try to check the track record of those speaking. Are they known to speak the truth? If “authorities” are used, who or what are they? Why should you regard this person—or organization or publication—as having expert knowledge or trustworthy information on the subject in question? If you sense some appeal to emotions, ask yourself, ‘When viewed dispassionately, what are the merits of the message?’

From the article in my signature. Examples of "loaded language": "Ritual Salvation, Ritualistic approach, Ritualistic ideology, Ritualistic Self Righteousness, Ritualistic obedience" (the paint job with loaded language is strong in this one, the bible condemns a ritualistic approach to the worship of Jehovah, it becoming more of a formality is the main emphasis there, but the first part is one of the reasons for the loaded language, that detailed emphasis is unlikely to be addressed because it's accurate knowledge about the truths as found in the bible, which according to 2 Timothy 4:3,4 some people "do not put up with", they don't like talking about those details either).

For men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattering speech they seduce the hearts of unsuspecting ones. (Romans 16:18)

Colossians 2:4

4 I am saying this so that no one may delude you with persuasive arguments.
edit on 19-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



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