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Origin of the Followers of Horus

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posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 07:44 AM
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I want to consider the Hurrian expansion from the Trans-Caucasus region that dates back circa 5,500 years and consider whether that extended into Egypt in terms of the Followers of Horus of the pre-Dynastic era, the given date for which commences 3,100 BC.

In general Hurrian culture was based in metallurgy and crafting skills and they exploited upland regions for ores establishing trade connections with lower lying regions, this paper looks at The Hurrian expansion


It must be said that these early attestations do not necessarily indicate the very beginning of Hurrian immigration to the north and northeast of Mesopotamia. The seizure of power by a Hurrian ruler in Azu‹inum and Simurrum, the organization of a military force, and more significantly giving Hurrian names to regions such as Azu‹inum and Kirašeniwe must have had a previous history, before Narām-Sîn. This would be a history of immigration, self establishment, replacement of sedentary populations by the new arrivals and finally the formation of a sufficiently serious threat to require a military response by Narām-Sîn


The map below gives a good indication of the extent of their influence with known dates and it can be seen that this had extended as far SW as Jerusalem at 2,650 BCE, were it is likely they were known as the Horites, but they would have needed to reach Egypt even earlier to be considered as the Followers of Horus.



In considering early expansion beyond known territorial limits there is a very intriguing relationship seen at Proto-Sumerian Uruk circa 5,500 BC were the companion city of Bad Tibira is named based on an Hurrian term and establishes a cult of metallurgy to incorporate those skills and resources into Sumerian culture.


an older Hurrian presence is shown by the assumed Hurrian loan-word ta/ibira in Sumerian, used for a smith or copperworker. This etymology presumes a derivation from the Hurrian verbal root tab/v, ‘to pour’ or ‘to cast.’ The word ta/ibira in Sumerian is so old that it formed part of the name of one of the predeluvian cities, Bad-tibira.

In ancient times, Bad-tibira was a city situated at the edge of marshlands. This was important, for it was known mostly for it’s reed-burning furnaces and smelteries. Raw ore was brought via the Euphrates and Iturungal Canal to the kilns. Mostly copper, but also gold and silver, were exported from Bad-tibira to artisan shops all over ancient Sumer


Bad-Tibira was the cultic city of Dumuzid, as the companion to Inanna of Uruk, and the dynastic Necropolis of such Kings at Arali between the two cities had intriguing relationship with Harali the source of the ores, as i considered in Gold of the Anunnaki


You are she who displays shining cornelian from the mountains to be admired. Bringing shining lapis lazuli from the bright mountain on special rafts, you are she who, like fire, melts gold from Harali. You are she who creates apples in their clusters.


Harali related to the heartland of Hurrian culture in NE Iran, and indicates the cult of the watchers.


The name of the range probably means “high watch/guard,” Av. harā- (fem. “watch, guard, defence,” not attested as an appellative) is from the OIr. har- “to pay attention to, watch over, protect”

The name of the Hamadān massif Alvand (Elvend, etc.) may well contain the same element harā/ă-, i.e., *haravant-, “furnished with watchers” in the sense of “protecting.

Alborz Iranica online




Of course many only know the cult of the watchers from the Enochian literature at the time of Persian influence in Judea but the basis for that lay in Iran and was Hurrian.


Zoroastrian scholastics continued to suppose that the Peak of Harā intercepted the light of the heavenly bodies, which they thought had their orbits in planes parallel to the earth. The ancient Iranians used a 360-day calendar, and in Pahlavi texts it is said that there were 180 windows on the eastern side of the Peak, and 180 on the western side. Each morning the sun passed through one on the eastern side, and each evening it departed through one on the western side. There were likewise 135 windows on either side for the moon, and 90 for the stars;


Returning then to the question of Hurrian colonization of Egypt as the Followers of Horus, given that they had a presence at Bad Tibira circa 5,500 years ago which is little understood but would have been crucial in establishing Sumerian civilization ensuring ores and crafting skills, one needs also to take into account the early colonization of Dilmun/Bahrain and Magan/Oman the latter of which was based upon the supply of ores, mainly copper.

Artifacts from Tell Abrak in Oman show correspondence with those of Pre-Dynastic Egypt, motifs seen are similar to those located close to the Red sea coast of Egypt, suggesting that the likely expansion into Egypt was from Magan sailing around the Arabian peninsula, see Towers of Magan

It isn't a new suggestion that the early Dynasties of Egypt established themselves via arrival from the Red sea, but tracing that back to Magan and then Uruk/Bad Tibira and finally to the place of origin as the land of Harali and the cult of the watchers is, as those who have considered such like Petrie and Rohl only consider Mesopotamian colonization, not Hurrian.

Also one would perhaps need to take into account the Follwers of Hathor, or Hattic culture through the Meditteranean.


According to Rohl, "There is little evidence of kingship and its rituals very much before the beginning of the 1st Dynasty; no signs of the gradual development of metal working, art, monumental architecture and writing – the defining criteria of early civilisation. Much of what we know about the pharaohs and their complex culture seems to come into existence in a flash of inspiration.

Rohl believes the catalyst for this sudden development was the influx of a Mesopotamian "foreign elite" who made their way to Egypt by sailing around the coastline of the Arabian Peninsula into the Red Sea ultimately dragging their boats across the desert to the Nile. Rohl notes numerous pre-dynastic rock carvings found in several locations from Wadi Abbad to Abydos which depict large Mesopotamian style boats


Dynastic Race Theory


In the early 20th century, Egyptologist Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie deduced that skeletal remains found at pre-dynastic sites at Naqada indicated the presence of two different races, with the Dynastic Race, also referred to as the "Followers of Horus", differentiated physically by a noticeably larger skeletal structure and cranial capacity

edit on Kam1318vAmerica/ChicagoMonday0931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:02 AM
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Nice work, S&F


Id never heard of these people before and I studied ancient history at uni.

Its threads like this that brought me to ATS, keep up the good work.

Now to fall down the rabbit hole that is your links



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

They do tend to remain obscure because they preferred mountainous regions and the reason behind their expansions is generally the locating of mineral and ore resources, it's uncertain how they arrived in the Trans-Caucasus some 5,500 years ago but i think the origin of this cult of metallurgy pre-dates that by a thousand years, to when the first silver and gold artifacts are appearing and could perhaps trace back across the upper Black sea region to Vinca culture in the Balkans.


Other Hurrian traditions found in the material culture of Urkeš show a culture cradled in the old rural Hurrian communities of the northern highlands, in northern and eastern Anatolia. Among these were the iconographic styles and elements later found in the iconography of Kültepe level II, such as the bull standing on an altar, the slaying of a reversed bull using the long triangular knife, the fashion, particularly headdresses, and the early Transcaucasian sherds and andirons found in Urkeš.

There is evidence of trade relations between Urkeš and the northern mountains, in which metals, stones, timber and wild animals were exchanged. This fact leads to the conclusion that the inhabitants of the northern highlands were in fact rural Hurrians rather than urban Hurrians of the Habur region. In any case, recent discoveries in northeastern Syria show that the regions of southeastern Anatolia must have played a significant role in the prehistory of the Hurrians.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:31 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

Great post
my ears perked up at your mention of the watchers . I had never heard of the group you are digging into but the location from where they came is mighty close to Gobekli Tepe . If one considers the many early stories surrounding the middle east and early world powers there can be many dots connected .Weather they are valid or not it seems that they have some kind of a connection . The watchers also making a connection to the giants and advanced knowledge springing up suddenly makes sense . Maybe the decision to go to Egypt with this new knowledge was a strategic decision to create their one world empire . Any how great post S&F

EYA a lecture by Mike Heiser called reversing hermon as he does bring into his talks what other cultures were writing about back in the day .

edit on 9-1-2017 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

What i'm looking at with the establishment of the metallurgists and toolmakers developing 6,500 years ago in mountainous regions is a second stage of development from the establishment of the agriculturists of the lowlands beginning circa 13,000 years ago, which did relate to Gobekli Tepe developments.

It's the two combined that create the potential for civilization, which is why my interest in Sumerian Uruk as relating to the agriculture based elder culture and that combined with the Hurrian developments. The elder culture dated back to the age of Virgo as i suggested here and the important Sumerian Goddess of grain Nisaba reflected that, but for the Hurrians their Earth Goddess Allani took on even deeper associations with gold, both can be related to Ereskigal as the great one of Eres, the former was concerned with the organic produce of Earth, grain, the secondary development with the ores of the interior, a natural development, and examples of Allani can be seen as beneath the Taurus mountains in her little chamber.



These from Kanes/Kultepe the centre of the Anatolian ore trade.



Of course the cult of Horus is that of the High watcher, the Falcon, and that relates to the land of Harali.


In those days, in the days when heaven and earth were created; in those nights, in the nights when heaven and earth were created; in those years, in the years when the fates were determined; when the Anuna gods were born; when the goddesses were taken in marriage; when the goddesses were distributed in heaven and earth

The gods were digging the canals and piling up the silt in Ḫarali. The gods, crushing the clay, began complaining about this life.;


It was the case that the expansion of the Hurrians produced regional variations of their cult of the sacred mountain, such as mount Hor or mount Hermon.
edit on Kam1318vAmerica/ChicagoMonday0931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

The major problem with the predynastic theory of Rohl et al is that the DNA evidence simply does not support it.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:03 AM
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The ancient Iranians used a 360-day calendar, and in Pahlavi texts it is said that there were 180 windows on the eastern side of the Peak, and 180 on the western side. Each morning the sun passed through one on the eastern side, and each evening it departed through one on the western side. There were likewise 135 windows on either side for the moon, and 90 for the stars;


can you source this?

I see jumping between paradigms, trying to fix a single narrative..



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: Tiger5

I think you'd only be looking at a relatively small number of colonists as contrasted with the greater population base and that would be best sampled from the Dynastic ruling class, though of course that would have changed over time given the extent of inter-marriage between Dynasties outside of Egypt.


a reply to: tikbalang

Yes i gave the source Alborz, Hara or Harali was that central mountain which all other mountain ranges were considered sub-ordinate to, the centre of watcher culture.


The earliest form of the name (Av. Harā bərəzaitī, Mid. Pers. Harborz) denotes in the Avesta and in Zoroastrian writings not the existing range, but a mythological mountain chain fulfilling a cosmological function at either end of the world. Through it the sun enters and departs each day; around its highest peak (taēra-, tērag) circle the stars (Yt. 12.25). In Yt. 10.50 and Yt. 12.23 the towering, luminous Harā mountains and their many outcrops are the abode of Mithra,

edit on Kam1318vAmerica/ChicagoMonday0931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

(you can probably tell that I hate the idea of "we wonderful people came in and gave civilization to these backward mud-eaters")

Short answer: No.

First, there's no group called "The Followers of Horus."

Depending on where you're looking, it's either the name of a group of skeletons found by Petrie (he gave them this name) at Naqada or the name of a group of Predynastic kings which are first mentioned in the New Kingdom - but not before that, or the (only one reference I know of) name of a group of what's called 'demons' invoked in a spell that asks for protection from them (Middle Kingdom, I think... can't find the reference right now.)

The "demigods" appear at a time when there was sort of an "arms race" in kingly titles and everyone in the Mediterranean was rushing to prove that their lineage was descended from the true gods of their specific culture. This is when the first mention of "sons of Horus" occur.

While you appear to be connecting them with the group identified by Petrie, there's a number of problems with this.

Had there been such a group, we would have seen:
* this same culture over the entire region (there was no need to rush down to Egypt and civilize them while ignoring the rest of the area)
* consistent language and genetics over the entire region (DNA does not support the Dynastic Race idea)
* the same symbols used for written language (we don't see this in Egypt)
* the same symbols for kingship used (we don't see this)
* direct linguistic correlation (Sumerian is a linguistic isolate - if there had been a deep connection with a ruling class, Sumerian and Egyptian languages would have a lot in common).

We do see strong trade links, but that's different than one cultural group coming in and merging with another.

And I don't think there's a "Followers of Hathor" - it certainly isn't the Hattic Culture, which has nothing in common with the deity, Hathor.
edit on 9-1-2017 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
Of course the cult of Horus is that of the High watcher, the Falcon, and that relates to the land of Harali.


There was no official "cult of Horus" - the pharaoh, however, was the living embodiment of Horus and was referred to as "Horus" in his or her many titles. None of the titles for Horus are "high watcher" or "watcher" and there are no direct connections between Egypt and India at that time.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

I don't expect there was a group that referred to themselves as the followers of Horus, but that there was a group that conceived Horus as a tutelary Deity and founded Dynastic Egypt, hence i am more interested in relating Horus to a particular ethnic group.

With regards to your points, as i am suggesting this was the Hurrians via Magan in conjunction with Urukian involvement they are already in central Mesopotamia well beyond their normal tribal ranges, thus you cannot expect widespread cultural evidence.

There is no evidence that at this period they (the Hurrians) had any form of written language, thus one would have needed to be developed, there is evidence for Caucasian genes in Egyptian rulers, the symbols of Kingship in the early Dynastic period are similar as per Indo-European.

Hathor as a tutelary Goddess of Hattic culture is a more difficult case to make, but bear in mind i'd be considering that as arriving via the Mediterranean and associate with such cultures as the Minoans, and that her name meant the House of Horus, within which the Sun could be understood to reside, and Hattic culture was the centre for such concerns...



It's a question of how Egyptian culture formulated their origins, and this is only involved with presenting a general overview for what was possible, but in terms of specifics as far as Hurrian colonizers arriving from Magan consider some of the evidence for cultural correspondence such as this 3rd Millenium comb from Tell Abrak/Oman;



Consider the symbolism, a triple branched arrangement, atop which is a bird/boat/bud, a good symbol for a colonizing group that is branching out into new regions, that travels by ship and has the bird as it's tutelary Deity, the combs from Tell Abrak show great similarity with those of early Dynastic Egypt, for example Naqada II King Djet;



A bird and a boat, the Horus/Sokar falcon and his barque, and on the prow of that boat an arrangement of branches, otherwise known as a tree...



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

I don't expect there was a group that referred to themselves as the followers of Horus, but that there was a group that conceived Horus as a tutelary Deity and founded Dynastic Egypt, hence i am more interested in relating Horus to a particular ethnic group.


Horus seems to be a type of national god at Nekhen, but that's in Upper Egypt and not Lower Egypt - so there might be an argument that he's a deity of the Nubians.


With regards to your points, as i am suggesting this was the Hurrians via Magan in conjunction with Urukian involvement they are already in central Mesopotamia well beyond their normal tribal ranges, thus you cannot expect widespread cultural evidence.

Given the other kinds of evidence we have, yes I can.


the symbols of Kingship in the early Dynastic period are similar as per Indo-European.

I would disagree, as would many.


Hathor as a tutelary Goddess of Hattic culture is a more difficult case to make, but bear in mind i'd be considering that as arriving via the Mediterranean and associate with such cultures as the Minoans, and that her name meant the House of Horus, within which the Sun could be understood to reside, and Hattic culture was the centre for such concerns...

She's far older than the Minoans and appears to be related to the existing cattle cults in predynastic Egypt.



Consider the symbolism, a triple branched arrangement, atop which is a bird/boat/bud, a good symbol for a colonizing group that is branching out into new regions, that travels by ship and has the bird as it's tutelary Deity, the combs from Tell Abrak show great similarity with those of early Dynastic Egypt, for example Naqada II King Djet;

A bird and a boat, the Horus/Sokar falcon and his barque, and on the prow of that boat an arrangement of branches, otherwise known as a tree...


They are beautiful objects but the only similarity is that "there's a bird and there's plants on both." The bird comb is clearly a piece for a high status person but there's no evidence that the design is a real symbolic group for the Hurrians.

The Egyptian comb, on the other hand, is actually a complex document with a Tjet symbol, two was scepters (indicating power an kingship) along with the winged solar barque and the king's name. In addition, the elements in the Egyptian comb are repeated throughout the ages and in other contexts, confirming that they're not design and are meaningful.

You could make a reasonable argument for similarity would be if both had winged solar barges and was scepters since those are unique and don't actually appear in nature - and if they appeared in multiple artifacts associated with royalty over a period of centuries. No such situation exists with the Hurrian artifact.

And since you made me go hunting
- here is a free PDF of a book on Mesopotamian gods and symbols Not sure how long it'll be available, but snag it quick! There's a number of mentions of Hurrian deities.
edit on 9-1-2017 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

Arrival from the Red Sea would have involved establishment in Upper Egypt initially, there's no evidence of metallurgy and relatively advanced craft skills evolving locally in that region whereas with the Hurrian expansion the pattern can be traced, in fact the broad based society in that region was still very much in the Neolithic period before the arrival of those who created the first Dynasties, and that in itself had developed in Anatolia thousands of years earlier and was thus Proto-Hattic, cows and all.

It's a false assumption therefore to consider they could just have developed those skills themselves, the evidence suggests dedicated specialist groups related to metallurgy developing and expanding to facilitate civilization in already existing agricultural societies.

There is everything to suggest the Tell Abrak comb conveys symbolic meaning in the same sense as the Egyptian, the only difference is that it is not understood or appreciated, i don't think you're helping with that...



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
The name of the range probably means “high watch/guard,” Av. harā- (fem. “watch, guard, defence,” not attested as an appellative) is from the OIr. har- “to pay attention to, watch over, protect”

The name of the Hamadān massif Alvand (Elvend, etc.) may well contain the same element harā/ă-, i.e., *haravant-, “furnished with watchers” in the sense of “protecting.

I would suggest this has more to do with keeping observation of the Royal Stars. The Persian calendar was, and is still, observation based, Alborz I am sure would have had both an ideal position as well as a cultic reason to have an observatory. Intriguingly enough, the modern Alborz Observatory Array was named after such a notion.

But this is all before my time, I could be way off.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 03:44 AM
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a reply to: SargonThrall

It did relate to the stars as the watchers but also the sacred mountain as the point of connectivity to the translation of those Celestial powers to the Earth, in the sense of star beings even, and that as the basis for cultural origins.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

Arrival from the Red Sea would have involved establishment in Upper Egypt initially, there's no evidence of metallurgy and relatively advanced craft skills evolving locally in that region

And indeed, the Egyptians don't enter the Bronze Age until fairly late. They do have occasional metal objects, acquired by trade ... in some cases they traded for ingots that they could work. Flint knives and weapons were used well into the Middle Kingdom; some flint knives were used in the New Kingdom and later.



whereas with the Hurrian expansion the pattern can be traced, in fact the broad based society in that region was still very much in the Neolithic period before the arrival of those who created the first Dynasties, and that in itself had developed in Anatolia thousands of years earlier and was thus Proto-Hattic, cows and all.


But Narmer, Scorpion, and so forth were from the area of Abydos (middle of Egypt.) There's evidence of villages and local power structures up and down the Nile... no need for some group to come from more than a thousand miles away to teach them anything. There's evidence for cattle in Nubia from 12,500 BC (horn cores) .


It's a false assumption therefore to consider they could just have developed those skills themselves,

Why not?

They weren't inherently stupid, they had villages, deities, burial systems, and an identifiable culture. By the time the Hurrians get their act together and form a recognized culture with identifiable cities and works, the Egyptian empire is almost 800 years old.


the evidence suggests dedicated specialist groups related to metallurgy developing and expanding to facilitate civilization in already existing agricultural societies.


We don't see that evidence.


There is everything to suggest the Tell Abrak comb conveys symbolic meaning in the same sense as the Egyptian, the only difference is that it is not understood or appreciated,


No, there's a huge difference. That Tell Abrak comb is not a document - it's decoration (and it's also dated after 2400 BC). Nor are its images repeated in other artifacts or associated with royalty (lions are associated with Hurrian royalty) The Egyptian comb is both decoration and a document.



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 03:43 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

Mining operations took place first in the Eastern desert close to the Red sea this commencing the early bronze age in Egypt, the tin for which was sourced from Iran.

Metallurgy in Egypt

Egyptian metallurgy


Galena was mined in Egypt at Gebel Rasas, a few miles from the Red Sea coast - Lead - though it never found extensive application, was among the earliest metals known, specimen having been found in graves of Pre-Dynastic Period. - Iron - was known in Egypt from the early Dynastic Period but there is no neat progression to an Iron Age,

Tin - was used in the manufacture of bronze. Cobalt has been detected as a coloring agent in certain specimens of glass and glaze. Neither metal occurs naturally in Egypt, and it seems probable that supplies of tin and cobalt ores were imported from Persia.


Your notion of self sufficient Egypt developing the skills and resources fails because they could not have produced bronze without Iranian involvement, if only in terms of supply of tin, even if you take for granted ore identification and mining and smelting techniques developing independently.

There are early Dynastic gold and silver objects but it is thought these are also sourced from outside Egypt, particularly the silver through Mesopotamia, so while distant trade has to be accepted it seems strange that the importation of expertise cannot be.

It is true that the Hurrian expansion wasn't primarily through the development of civilization , that generally they are identified in mountainous regions and looking to exploit ores and create trading connections, but my point was that those low lying agricultural civilizations had depended on their expertise to develop.

Another thing, Lapis Lazuli importation was entirely dependent on the Hurrian connections to Afghanistan, and is known in Egypt from the pre-Dynastic period;


In ancient Egypt, lapis lazuli was a favorite stone for amulets and ornaments such as scarabs. Lapis jewelry has been found at excavations of the Predynastic Egyptian site Naqada (3300–3100 BC)


Lapis Lazuli



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 11:04 AM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

Mining operations took place first in the Eastern desert close to the Red sea this commencing the early bronze age in Egypt, the tin for which was sourced from Iran.


My error!

I was thinking of the Iron Age.


Your notion of self sufficient Egypt developing the skills and resources fails because they could not have produced bronze without Iranian involvement, if only in terms of supply of tin, even if you take for granted ore identification and mining and smelting techniques developing independently.


I'm not sure where you're going with this. If I read your initial argument correctly, you've been trying to claim that the Hurrians (who didn't exist back in 3200 BC) were the mythical "Followers of Horus" and that they brought Bronze and the notion of kingship to pre-Dynastic Egypt.


There are early Dynastic gold and silver objects but it is thought these are also sourced from outside Egypt, particularly the silver through Mesopotamia, so while distant trade has to be accepted it seems strange that the importation of expertise cannot be.


They don't necessarily need to import it. Marriage, apprenticeship, spying... many other ways of getting the knowledge.


It is true that the Hurrian expansion wasn't primarily through the development of civilization , that generally they are identified in mountainous regions and looking to exploit ores and create trading connections, but my point was that those low lying agricultural civilizations had depended on their expertise to develop.


I don't think this is true. If I recall the history of the area, they were semi-nomadic. Metallurgy develops in cities (where they have a stable space for workshops).

In short, I don't see that the Hurrians' precursors had much of any impact on Egypt (which was influenced by areas much closer to the Nile) or any presence in Egypt, and I see no connection with the mythical construct of the New Kingdom known as "the Followers of Horus."



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

They certainly existed before 3,200 BC...


They most likely came from the north or northeast, from the TransCaucasus or from across the Caspian Sea and were present in the mountains north of Urkeš since the fifth millennium BC, according to Buccellati and Kelly-Buccellati


Hurrian expansion

I don't think they introduced the general notion of Kingship, but it's a question of what relationship they established with those lands to which they were providing ores and minerals, and likely specialist smelting and crafting skills.

In the case of Bad Tibira and Uruk that appears to have been a close relationship which guaranteed these requirments of Sumerian civilization, even to the extent that the Dumuzid Kingship was idealized at Bad Tibura, and in a Hurrian form as Dumu is an Indo-European loan word for child and occurs in Anatolian myth relating to the Deity Silver;


Silver is described in this text as a wannumiyas DUMU, which means a child whose father is dead or missing. Hittitologists generally translate this as "orphan," Silver's consternation at being told by the orphan boy that he too was an orphan need not mean that he was discovering this for the first time.


The Moon that fell from Heaven

It was that precedent then which suggested the role of the sacred Kingship could be based on a Tutelary God of a cultural group that had been instrumental in the establishing of a particular civilization in terms of a working partnership, and were in the case of Inanna of Uruk she was still seen as the senior partner in that relationship.

So looking at this model in terms of Naqada II culture it becomes a question of what relationship was established to guarantee a supply of necessary and desirable minerals and ores from the Iranian hinterland and beyond, you're certainly not talking about invasion, but more likely the establishment of a close working relationship and very limited colonization, and were the new arrivals are taking a dynamic lead in terms of cultural progression, and thus become the token Masculine partner in that relationship.

In order to demonstrate that this occurred as i mentioned it will be necessary to compare technologies and artifacts from the earliest colonization of Oman/Magan with that of Naqada II, also to consider the mining operations close to the Red sea coast adjacent to Naqada culture and the ship petroglyphs etc.



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 01:12 AM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Byrd

They certainly existed before 3,200 BC...


They most likely came from the north or northeast, from the TransCaucasus or from across the Caspian Sea and were present in the mountains north of Urkeš since the fifth millennium BC, according to Buccellati and Kelly-Buccellati


Hurrian expansion

Point accepted - though it's hard to say that they were anything more than a culture at that stage.



I don't think they introduced the general notion of Kingship, but it's a question of what relationship they established with those lands to which they were providing ores and minerals, and likely specialist smelting and crafting skills.


So, since I didn't know much about the period, I started looking for archaeological reports. This site is a fair summary of what I read elsewhere. Goats, sheep, and plants indicate there was some contact/cross-contact with the Levant around 5000 BC - 4000 BC but it's really weak.

Evidence of stratified society and rulers appears in the earlier Naqada culture dating to 4000 BC.



(quote from that site)
“Once agriculture became the dominant mode of subsistence with an attendant reduction of spatial mobility, and enlargement of group size, and a simplification of the ecological network by focusing on a few resources the economic system became vulnerable to periodic fluctuations in agricultural yield. Given the unpredictability of Nile floods and the fact that about one of ever five floods is a ‘bad flood’, emergence of intraregional and interregional networks of food exchange fostered the emergence of a managerial elite, formal social organization, and military force” (Hassan 1984, p.223)


Almost no metal is found in a Naqada I context.

Again, a quote from that site that emphasizes what I've been saying (rather badly)


Polity Formation, the development of individual defined polities, apparently begins in Naqada I and consolidates in Naqada II. Kemp identifies a number of key factors which identify the concept of state as “ideology, earthly power, the enabling force of bureaucracy” and it is these type of features that we begin to see in the way in which Naqada I evolves, particularly at the site of Naqada.

During Naqada I the town of Naqada itself rose to a position of prominence and individual towns began to evolve towards local polities. As Wilkinson says (1999,2001, p.36-7) “The heartland of the technological, social, ideological economic and political changes that led to statehood was the southern part of the Nile valley”. With its roots in the successful exploitation of the Nile Valley and the Eastern Desert (Wilkinson 2003), Naqada I was the first truly organized society in ancient Egypt.


So statehood, etc, does NOT begin in the north and the Delta, but begins in the south (Nubia.) Nubia also has a lot of mineral and ore resources. If you google for Sumerian pottery (5000-3000 BC) and Egyptian pottery from the Naqada period, you will see that they're actually distinct - different shapes, different types of decoration. I think it's actually pretty easy to tell one from the other.

Pottery is technology with fire (and you need to learn pottery firing techniques before you can do much with metal.)

Naqada II shows that the north and south areas of Egypt are developing independently. The Naqada I phase is when elements from Nubia become common throughout Lower Egypt as well - and remember that Nubia has ores and minerals.


In the case of Bad Tibira and Uruk that appears to have been a close relationship which guaranteed these requirments of Sumerian civilization, even to the extent that the Dumuzid Kingship was idealized at Bad Tibura, and in a Hurrian form as Dumu is an Indo-European loan word for child and occurs in Anatolian myth relating to the Deity Silver;


...and had no impact in Egypt.



There is general agreement that trade seems to have been a major aspect of Naqada II: “That trade and exchange were important factors as society in Predynastic Egypt became increasingly complex seems likely, particularly given the distribution of Predynastic craft goods in cemeteries from Gerza in the north to the Nubian A-Group in the south” (Bard 1987, p.92). A number of artefactual pointers show the extent of Egypt’s connections at this time. Pear-shaped mace-heads appear in Upper Egypt for the first time in Naqada II, and also appear at Merimde, Palestine, Iran and Tepe Gawra (level XII) and southern Mesopotamia in the Jamdat Nasr period. Cylinder seals appear in Egypt in IIc/d, both imports and copies.


So Egypt is exporting crafts.



Lapis lazuli was a Mesopotamian export, and there were trading villages established in north Mesopotamia including the site of Tepe Gawra where both gold and lapis are found in increasing volumes in levels XIII and X. Mark suggests that Egypt acquired its lapis from Palestine via a trading route from Mesopotamia through northern Syria to the Amuq regions and then south through Hama (p.123).

Lapis arrives through trade routes, handed off from one city to another and there are small trading settlements (with a different culture from Egypt)

Naqada III sees the unification of Egypt, starting from the south

But even the eastward-lying Tell al Farqua does not show Sumerain/Hurrian type artifacts.


Silver is described in this text as a wannumiyas DUMU, which means a child whose father is dead or missing. Hittitologists generally translate this as "orphan," Silver's consternation at being told by the orphan boy that he too was an orphan need not mean that he was discovering this for the first time.


This isn't even close to the meaning ascribed for silver by the Egyptians.


So looking at this model in terms of Naqada II culture it becomes a question of what relationship was established to guarantee a supply of necessary and desirable minerals and ores from the Iranian hinterland and beyond...

Well, some of it came from Nubia (as above) and others came through as trade for craft goods going FROM Egypt to elsewhere.


edit on 12-1-2017 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



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