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Why is the Government and John McCain lying about Russia???

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posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: PistolPete

It all seems like the mafia. Pay one family for protection from competition. They contribute to foundations for action to help their cause.

The government is on big mafia/ponzi scheme.
Effecting resource prices and blazing wartrails in its wake.




posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 07:26 AM
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a reply to: banjobrain



Why do so many people think the CIA, FBI and the NSA are lying about Russia?


Politics. Plain and simple.

They cannot stomach the idea that Russia may have hacked the DNC in order to sway enough public opinion in Trump's favor, so their defensive reaction is to say they are lying.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 07:41 AM
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Or in Awakened Mind types the defacto choice is to blame the CIA, FBI ,NSA, USA regardless of how little is known because someone on 4Chan heard a rumor on Reddit which someone else Tweeted.

Hell proof isnt given to the public while a case is fluid on simple crime let alone involving world based actors yet people are crying "what proof do they have". I would assume people crying about the lack of proof have never been invovled in an emergent or fluid situation and think everything fits in a nice 60 min episode like on TV.

Dont really care if that loses me stars or flags here, at one point this site was supposed to be about denying ignorance and not just fitting a narrative.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:24 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Echo007


Where is the proof Russia agents hacked the DNC. All we hear is "trust us, RUSSIA did it". that is pure propaganda.


Are you saying that the Russian government is incapable of doing something that the President Elect says any fourteen year old can do? That's pure Russophobia, thinking Russians are stupid and/or incompetent. Russia got exactly the results they wanted:




John McCain, the man who meet with the leader of terrorist group ISIS.


No, he met with men with beards whom Russian state media falsely identified as ISIS leaders. That's pure propaganda.


way to twist around what his actual question was.

and what a funny response at that! you misrepresent his honest question of "where is the evidence?" by asking him if he means that "Russians are incapable of hacking foreign servers." that's in no way shape or form what echo was getting at. if there was ever a textbook definition of grasping at straws, this reply might as well be in it.

...and then you link to a video of Russian officials celebrating Trump's victory. what exactly are you trying to say by posting that video? if you choose to respond to this question, please make sure you read the comments under that video first. to me, it looks like you're eating this Russian bit hook, line and sinker.

and are you saying john McCain *didn't* meet with opposition forces later found to cut out and eat another man's heart? would you mind substantiating that claim for everyone here?

also, I'd like to re-assert echo's question: where's the evidence that Russia impacted the outcome of our election?



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:29 AM
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originally posted by: opethPA
Or in Awakened Mind types the defacto choice is to blame the CIA, FBI ,NSA, USA regardless of how little is known because someone on 4Chan heard a rumor on Reddit which someone else Tweeted.

Hell proof isnt given to the public while a case is fluid on simple crime let alone involving world based actors yet people are crying "what proof do they have". I would assume people crying about the lack of proof have never been invovled in an emergent or fluid situation and think everything fits in a nice 60 min episode like on TV.

Dont really care if that loses me stars or flags here, at one point this site was supposed to be about denying ignorance and not just fitting a narrative.


you don't think you're conforming to a narrative when you accept extraordinary lack of evidence for extraordinary claims by way of the situation being "fluid"?

did you read the DNI report? they question their own assertions page after page. I don't know that that would be the appropriate behavior when you actually have evidence.

if I work for the FBI and tell you your best friend killed someone in the woods last night, but told you I can't prove it to you or give you any qualifying details, would you be inclined to believe me?



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:34 AM
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originally posted by: facedye

originally posted by: opethPA
Or in Awakened Mind types the defacto choice is to blame the CIA, FBI ,NSA, USA regardless of how little is known because someone on 4Chan heard a rumor on Reddit which someone else Tweeted.

Hell proof isnt given to the public while a case is fluid on simple crime let alone involving world based actors yet people are crying "what proof do they have". I would assume people crying about the lack of proof have never been invovled in an emergent or fluid situation and think everything fits in a nice 60 min episode like on TV.

Dont really care if that loses me stars or flags here, at one point this site was supposed to be about denying ignorance and not just fitting a narrative.


you don't think you're conforming to a narrative when you accept extraordinary lack of evidence for extraordinary claims by way of the situation being "fluid"?

did you read the DNI report? they question their own assertions page after page. I don't know that that would be the appropriate behavior when you actually have evidence.

if I work for the FBI and tell you your best friend killed someone in the woods last night, but told you I can't prove it to you or give you any qualifying details, would you be inclined to believe me?


In your example if the case was not closed or close to closure I wouldn't tell you anything beyond what you needed to know , that is basic opsec.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: facedye

originally posted by: opethPA
Or in Awakened Mind types the defacto choice is to blame the CIA, FBI ,NSA, USA regardless of how little is known because someone on 4Chan heard a rumor on Reddit which someone else Tweeted.

Hell proof isnt given to the public while a case is fluid on simple crime let alone involving world based actors yet people are crying "what proof do they have". I would assume people crying about the lack of proof have never been invovled in an emergent or fluid situation and think everything fits in a nice 60 min episode like on TV.

Dont really care if that loses me stars or flags here, at one point this site was supposed to be about denying ignorance and not just fitting a narrative.


you don't think you're conforming to a narrative when you accept extraordinary lack of evidence for extraordinary claims by way of the situation being "fluid"?

did you read the DNI report? they question their own assertions page after page. I don't know that that would be the appropriate behavior when you actually have evidence.

if I work for the FBI and tell you your best friend killed someone in the woods last night, but told you I can't prove it to you or give you any qualifying details, would you be inclined to believe me?


In your example if the case was not closed or close to closure I wouldn't tell you anything beyond what you needed to know , that is basic opsec.


that's a very coy response - I think you know what I'm getting at.

forgive some of us here who think that literally baseless accusations against a foreign government (who in this case happens to be a sort-of-superpower) do more harm than good, and shouldn't be accepted purely on merit.

case in point - were there WMD's in Iraq? do you think they'd have kept the photos and evidence of that from us if they really had it? sure looks like they were trying to prove a point..



WMDs in Iraq

let's actually test your position on this - did they find WMDs here, or anywhere in Iraq? if not, why are you frustrated over americans not accepting the federal government's word as fact anymore?



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Thanks for your concern, but they are so many that is difficult to believe they all would do the same, and they are American mostly. I have seen ab ten different channellers telling about Putin positively, and few of them saying he is with Pleiadians. One at least, Ivan Teller added he is not aware of their help though.

I think in the future we are going to see more and more ET cahnnelers so I try to listen them also.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:50 AM
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a reply to: facedye


if I work for the FBI and tell you your best friend killed someone in the woods last night, but told you I can't prove it to you or give you any qualifying details, would you be inclined to believe me?


If I knew my friend was a killer: absolutely. Vladimir Putin was a KGB officer. The KGB covertly tried to influence American elections. Here is former Russian ambassador to the United States describing events that took place in 1968:


To Moscow, Humphrey certainly was preferable to Richard Nixon, who had founded and built his career on opposing communism and was considered profoundly anti-Soviet. Our leadership was growing seriously concerned that he might win the election. As a result the top Soviet leaders took an extraordinary step, unprecedented in the history of Soviet-American relations, by secretly offering Humphrey any conceivable help in his election campaign—including financial aid.

I received a top-secret instruction to that effect from Gromyko person-ally and did my utmost to dissuade him from embarking on such a dangerous venture, which if discovered certainly would have backfired and ensured Humphrey's defeat, to say nothing of the real trouble it would have caused for Soviet-American relations. Gromyko answered laconically, "There is a decision, you carry it out.

"Shortly afterward, I happened to be at breakfast at Humphrey's home.Naturally, we talked about the election campaign, so I tried to take advantage of that to carry out my instructions as tactfully as possible. I asked him how his campaign was going, and then I moved the conversation diplomatically to the state of his campaign finances. Humphrey, I must say, was not only a very intelligent but also a very clever man. He knew at once what was going on. He told me it was more than enough for him to have Moscow's good wishes, which he highly appreciated. The matter was thus settled to our mutual relief, never to be discussed again.


Anatoli Dobrynin, "In Confidence," p. 195.
edit on 9-1-2017 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: banjobrain

McCain and others hate Trump so badly they'll obviously deploy any tactic to de-legitimize Trump.

The Russians have consistently been our adversary since the end of WWII. They have ALWAYS been spying, hacking and spewing propaganda against us. But no one was largely hyperventilating about that until it became potentially useful to slime Trump.

It's all about the politics.


edit on 9-1-2017 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: facedye

I have been exposing Russian machinations for years:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Where is your evidence that Russia was not trying to influence the election? Was it just coincidence that RT trashed Clinton? Were all those stories about Clinton murdering people posted online by newspapers that don't exist just a glitch of some kind? If you can't see a conspiracy staring you in the face, what are you doing here?



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: facedye


if I work for the FBI and tell you your best friend killed someone in the woods last night, but told you I can't prove it to you or give you any qualifying details, would you be inclined to believe me?


If I knew my friend was a killer: absolutely. Vladimir Putin was a KGB officer. The KGB covertly tried to influence American elections. Here is former Russian ambassador to the United States describing events that took place in 1968:


To Moscow, Humphrey certainly was preferable to Richard Nixon, who had founded and built his career on opposing communism and was considered profoundly anti-Soviet. Our leadership was growing seriously concerned that he might win the election. As a result the top Soviet leaders took an extraordinary step, unprecedented in the history of Soviet-American relations, by secretly offering Humphrey any conceivable help in his election campaign—including financial aid

.I received a top-secret instruction to that effect from Gromyko person-ally and did my utmost to dissuade him from embarking on such a dangerous venture, which if discovered certainly would have backfired and ensured Humphrey's defeat, to say nothing of the real trouble it would have caused for Soviet-American relations. Gromyko answered laconically, "There is a decision, you carry it out.

"Shortly afterward, I happened to be at breakfast at Humphrey's home.Naturally, we talked about the election campaign, so I tried to take advantage of that to carry out my instructions as tactfully as possible. I asked him how his campaign was going, and then I moved the conversation diplomatically to the state of his campaign finances. Humphrey, I must say, was not only a very intelligent but also a very clever man. He knew at once what was going on. He told me it was more than enough for him to have Moscow's good wishes, which he highly appreciated. The matter was thus settled to our mutual relief, never to be discussed again.


Anatoli Dobrynin, "In Confidence," p. 195.


wow you really just keep grasping. unreal.

what are you getting at? are you really going to sit there and not consider how many of our previous presidents have been heavily tied to the intelligence community themselves prior to holding office?

seriously, in blunt words, what is your point?

EDIT: I mean.. we're literally in the business of toppling governments. Just look at the past few decades.

you just come off like a soviet alarmist. how can you talk about Russia influencing elections without conversely mentioning the united states toppling governments and CONTROLLING elections outright?

I see smoke coming from you, but definitely no fire.

"I can't prove it, but can you?" is not an argument, nor a reasonable position to hold if you are to maintain your concept of factual truth.

in fact, hundreds if not thousands of international factors have a direct impact on our elections. just because Russia is happy that Trump won over warmongering Hillary doesn't mean their hackers manipulated our votes.

I truly hope you'd say this bluntly if this is what you believe - because clearly, the next step there would be for you to prove that. which, we can both see that you can't.
edit on 9-1-2017 by facedye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
From what Ive seen and read John McCain is no hero.

...

Your a hero when you defend your homeland, I cant think of a word low enough to describe people who travel overseas to kill others because their Gov was worried about


That includes WW1, WW2, Korean, Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans in your definition of not being able to think of a "word low enough to describe" them.

You can call those folks whatever you like from the comfort of your keyboard, many of those people you despise fought for your right to do so, but personally I won't be taking anything you say seriously again.
edit on 9-1-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: facedye


seriously, in blunt words, what is your point?


In blunt words: the question is not whether the Russians tried to help Trump become President, the question is: Did Trump knowingly accept their help? Humphrey didn't. Did Trump? That would explain his acceptance of the Russian seizure of Crimea, wouldn't it? Why is he trying to downplay the fact that Russian media made it very clear they wanted him to win? And it doesn't strike you as odd that the Duma would toast Trump's victory? Did they do that when Obama won?
edit on 9-1-2017 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:09 AM
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DP
edit on 9-1-2017 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: facedye

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: facedye


if I work for the FBI and tell you your best friend killed someone in the woods last night, but told you I can't prove it to you or give you any qualifying details, would you be inclined to believe me?


If I knew my friend was a killer: absolutely. Vladimir Putin was a KGB officer. The KGB covertly tried to influence American elections. Here is former Russian ambassador to the United States describing events that took place in 1968:


To Moscow, Humphrey certainly was preferable to Richard Nixon, who had founded and built his career on opposing communism and was considered profoundly anti-Soviet. Our leadership was growing seriously concerned that he might win the election. As a result the top Soviet leaders took an extraordinary step, unprecedented in the history of Soviet-American relations, by secretly offering Humphrey any conceivable help in his election campaign—including financial aid

.I received a top-secret instruction to that effect from Gromyko person-ally and did my utmost to dissuade him from embarking on such a dangerous venture, which if discovered certainly would have backfired and ensured Humphrey's defeat, to say nothing of the real trouble it would have caused for Soviet-American relations. Gromyko answered laconically, "There is a decision, you carry it out.

"Shortly afterward, I happened to be at breakfast at Humphrey's home.Naturally, we talked about the election campaign, so I tried to take advantage of that to carry out my instructions as tactfully as possible. I asked him how his campaign was going, and then I moved the conversation diplomatically to the state of his campaign finances. Humphrey, I must say, was not only a very intelligent but also a very clever man. He knew at once what was going on. He told me it was more than enough for him to have Moscow's good wishes, which he highly appreciated. The matter was thus settled to our mutual relief, never to be discussed again.


Anatoli Dobrynin, "In Confidence," p. 195.


wow you really just keep grasping. unreal.

what are you getting at? are you really going to sit there and not consider how many of our previous presidents have been heavily tied to the intelligence community themselves prior to holding office?

seriously, in blunt words, what is your point?


Thousands...

Vladimir Putin has had thousands of Journalists and political opponents beaten, tortured, arrested and killed and continues to do so today.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:21 AM
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originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
From what Ive seen and read John McCain is no hero.

...

Your a hero when you defend your homeland, I cant think of a word low enough to describe people who travel overseas to kill others because their Gov was worried about


That includes WW1, WW2, Korean, Viet Name, Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans in your definition of not being able to think of a "word low enough to describe" them.

You can call those folks whatever you like from the comfort of your keyboard, many of those people you despise fought for your right to do so, but personally I won't be taking anything you say seriously again.


I dont despise them but I dont respect people just because theyre soldiers, In my quoted statement I was referring to pilots who drop bombs from the safety of their planes, therye not soldiers in my opinion.

WW1 and WW2 were completely different kettles of fish to the other wars you mention, those 2 wars were fought against countries or coalitions of countries that were looking at world domination. The rest of those wars were the US getting involved in a countries internal politics or regional disputes.
Its been over 50 years since anyone fought for your or my freedom and if you believe differently youve drunk the kool aid or were personally involved and cant accept that you were manipulated.

Ive said many times that I believe most soldiers hearts are in the right place but it doesnt change the fact that their good intentions and patriotism were abused by those in power.

Although Im saddened you will no longer take me seriously Im more flattered that you ever did

edit on 9/1/2017 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: facedye

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: facedye


if I work for the FBI and tell you your best friend killed someone in the woods last night, but told you I can't prove it to you or give you any qualifying details, would you be inclined to believe me?


If I knew my friend was a killer: absolutely. Vladimir Putin was a KGB officer. The KGB covertly tried to influence American elections. Here is former Russian ambassador to the United States describing events that took place in 1968:


To Moscow, Humphrey certainly was preferable to Richard Nixon, who had founded and built his career on opposing communism and was considered profoundly anti-Soviet. Our leadership was growing seriously concerned that he might win the election. As a result the top Soviet leaders took an extraordinary step, unprecedented in the history of Soviet-American relations, by secretly offering Humphrey any conceivable help in his election campaign—including financial aid

.I received a top-secret instruction to that effect from Gromyko person-ally and did my utmost to dissuade him from embarking on such a dangerous venture, which if discovered certainly would have backfired and ensured Humphrey's defeat, to say nothing of the real trouble it would have caused for Soviet-American relations. Gromyko answered laconically, "There is a decision, you carry it out.

"Shortly afterward, I happened to be at breakfast at Humphrey's home.Naturally, we talked about the election campaign, so I tried to take advantage of that to carry out my instructions as tactfully as possible. I asked him how his campaign was going, and then I moved the conversation diplomatically to the state of his campaign finances. Humphrey, I must say, was not only a very intelligent but also a very clever man. He knew at once what was going on. He told me it was more than enough for him to have Moscow's good wishes, which he highly appreciated. The matter was thus settled to our mutual relief, never to be discussed again.


Anatoli Dobrynin, "In Confidence," p. 195.


wow you really just keep grasping. unreal.

what are you getting at? are you really going to sit there and not consider how many of our previous presidents have been heavily tied to the intelligence community themselves prior to holding office?

seriously, in blunt words, what is your point?


Thousands...

Vladimir Putin has had thousands of Journalists and political opponents beaten, tortured, arrested and killed and continues to do so today.



how many western journalists has putin had beaten, tortured, arrested or killed?

let's try to stay on topic here. yes, he's a tyrant. we all know this. what are you getting at?



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:28 AM
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originally posted by: Zimnydran
Because.... they are part of the push for globalization.
Because Americans have just pointed the ship on a different course and there are some unhappy people. Brexit put England on a new course....and other nations seems set to do the same.
A lot of time. money and effort went in getting America on the path to globalization and they will do anything they can to prevent us from being sovereign.


You Trump worshipers claim that globalists are the most powerful entity in the world yet they somehow couldn't prevent Trump from becoming POTUS..Are you really that naive ?



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:29 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: facedye


seriously, in blunt words, what is your point?


In blunt words: the question is not whether the Russians tried to help Trump become President, the question is: Did Trump knowingly accept their help? Humphrey didn't. Did Trump? That would explain his acceptance of the Russian seizure of Crimea, wouldn't it? Why is he trying to downplay the fact that Russian media made it very clear they wanted him to win? And it doesn't strike you as odd that the Duma would toast Trump's victory? Did they do that when Obama won?


why is this even a question in people's minds? what is the basis for this question?




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