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Has Russia defeated the USA?

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posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: banjobrain

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: banjobrain


This makes sense, except for one point. The Gov't of the U.S. is not the U.S.. The people are the nation, not the gov't.

Next, recognition that the house needs cleaning isn't a defeat. It's a step towards correction.

While I do not trust Putin, I do believe he can be and is fairly well understood by the west. Work with him where and when we can....the enemy of my enemies, scenario. The rest? Trust, but verify....



Well I am sorry to tell you, but Karl Marx himself documented how to destroy the America system and the ultimate objective is to erode all faith in the governmental systems so that the people and the countries responses are based upon reactivity and not STRATEGY. So now America will have two systems of truth? Play it out for yourself -

There is nothing to clean, the implications are that the government institutions we pay $1,000,000,000,000.00 + a year for are not trust worthy, and they actually lie on purpose. Sounds like the game is sown up...You can clean house enough to fix that, that is a fundamental, systemic problem


So you're saying Russia made Obama/Clinton be anti-american and pro - globalism? So that someone like Trump would have no choice but rise up and try to save us?




posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 12:08 AM
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Responding to the OP title...no. The left including Obama has defeated the USA. Maybe Trump can resurrect it but only time will tell.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 01:46 AM
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originally posted by: banjobrain
I see so many people backing up Russia's claim that they were not involved in doing anything. Many people, who with in the last decade likened themselves to Tea-partiers of the revolution are now siding with Russia and what was once the KGB. I think this fact is not only bizarre, but it indicates something far more disturbing...

The assertion is that;

Russia certainly did not interfere with our elections, but MORE importantly that we cannot trust the CIA, the FBI, NSA, Democrats or Republicans, or the media; they are ALL lying to us!

Well if virtually the entire government, the media and the civilian political parties are all making this up and are not to be trusted, are we still a country? To me, this belief that Russia is more trustworthy than American sources indicates that our country is not much of a country anymore.

If this situation happened in the 1980's and we have CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS saying that Russia is more trustworthy than the USA, then I believe the
USSR would of been declared as the victor of the cold war. In fact, the communist and the KGB believed they would eventually defeat America through propaganda and eroding all trust in the American political system, which would in turn cause the world to lose faith in America, and ultimately the world would abandon the US petrodollar. Game, Set, Match!

If Russia is the truth and the light, why do we continue to act like everything is normal? It seems to me that the United States of America is a failed state as our founding principles have failed.

The institutions that make up our private business system are all lying through their media arms, the government we are paying Trillions of dollars
for are lying, the politicians we elect are all lying, the political parties that are the basis of our elected body are lying and any citizens who believe the official story are brainwashed...

So where does it end?

It seems then that the revolution has already taken place and this country is finished if we cannot believe such serious things. How can we ever believe anything again, and how can our country function if it is all a lie? Why would any of you who side with Russia ever believe in anything official in the future, even if it serves your political party, ideology or side? It is a serious question any intellectually honest person would consider.

Now, if Russia is lying, and they are tying to divide us and create two separate realities, eliminate all faith in American institutions and pit one side against the other, though their funding of alternative media, I would say that Russia has already conquered America and we have yet to realize what has happened. Part of America believes Russia and Donald Trump, the other part believes the media, the government, elected politicians, and some are absolutely confused...

Now one side is more apt to believe Russia, and the other-side has no faith in the security of the nation or the in the democratic process, which again would indicate our country has been destroyed, as the underlying basis of our country is no more. The trust and fraternity which is the basis of any democratic country must exist or the country will soon cease to exist and this situation is as dire as it can get.

How can one side trust the US institutions again if they believe Russia on this, and how anybody believe in Donald Trump if he is asserting that the entire government he leads is an absolute fraud? If Donald and Russia are right, then logically Donald should take over the country, fire the entire government, arrest all the officials of the intelligence agencies, try all the lying politicians for treason, dissolve all the corporate media and we should start over.

These are the things we face today, and to play fast and loose with this issue can very well spell the end of our country. Words and ideas have consequences, and this situation is potentially more dangerous than an invasion by a foreign army. Use your brains and think about what this means
as an American, not a conservative or a liberal, Democrat or Republican.




You are aware that the world changes right ?


Federal Russia is not the USSR.

Republican party of the 80's is not the Republican Neo-con NWO party of today.

Democratic party of the 50'sis not the Democratic party of today.

Germany is not East and West anymore.

Britain is no longer an Empire.



I don't think anyone is stupid enough, even Trump; to think that Vladimir Putin is a saint and just a cheery ol' pal. But there is nothing wrong with working with the Russians to achieve common goals (of which there are many in the modern crazy world), while still closely monitoring what they are up to. We should always be vigilant and aware of any nations maneuvering. Although I personally feel Russia is looking in new directions for strategic partners as China becomes more powerful and Russia trusts them less and less.


Also for the record, even if Russia was directly behind the hack, all they did was release legitimate DNC emails to the public.

So if the Democrats lost the election because the public didn't like how dirty they were, that's THEIR PROBLEM. Why didn't anyone hack the RNC and release their dirt??? Are you telling me Clinton and her people are above hacking and dirt digging??? Hahahaha



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: banjobrain

I'd trust the Putin guy over Obama any day.
The FBI, NSA, CIA and media in America have been caught lying to the public to many times.

I think you're ignorant for believing them, but one mans ignorance is another mans knowledge.
Wake up



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 06:25 AM
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originally posted by: banjobrain

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: banjobrain



Unfortunately we are all losing, and that is what I am saying. This wedge that we have here, the fact that you believe in Russia more than the official proclamations of the country you are a citizen of shows that we are in serious trouble. Think beyond the little four year election cycle and party politics, and you will see we are done. Your faith in the American system has been undermined and now you will only believe it when it serves your view, rendering the whole thing useless.



We don't believe Russia, we believe Julian Assange.
He said the source isn't the Russian government and isn't affiliated with any government.
Russia has lied and the USA has lied, so I believe neither. Julian hasn't been caught in a lie, so I'll trust that guy.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 06:59 AM
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originally posted by: GreenGunther

originally posted by: banjobrain

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: banjobrain



Unfortunately we are all losing, and that is what I am saying. This wedge that we have here, the fact that you believe in Russia more than the official proclamations of the country you are a citizen of shows that we are in serious trouble. Think beyond the little four year election cycle and party politics, and you will see we are done. Your faith in the American system has been undermined and now you will only believe it when it serves your view, rendering the whole thing useless.



We don't believe Russia, we believe Julian Assange.
He said the source isn't the Russian government and isn't affiliated with any government.
Russia has lied and the USA has lied, so I believe neither. Julian hasn't been caught in a lie, so I'll trust that guy.


Assange, Wikileaks and Russia have all been in bed long before this set of leaks. You can find hundreds of expositional pieces that long predate Donald Trump's nomination.

www.businessinsider.com...

And to be clear I am not doubting the information, I am stating that the motives are simply to manipulate the body politic in America to align with Russian policy and goals. To create a situation where the knee jerk reaction of CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS is to side with Russia's claims of innocence, over the military, intelligence and media institutions of America is the larger point. It is a psychological point that seems to be too nuanced for our Trumpeters here



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: banjobrain

I'd trust the Putin guy over Obama any day.
The FBI, NSA, CIA and media in America have been caught lying to the public to many times.

I think you're ignorant for believing them, but one mans ignorance is another mans knowledge.
Wake up


Well maybe you're the one being ignorant. It seems to me that the blind and sometimes irrational hatred of Obama is precisely part of the reason Russia is looked at as a benevolent force, following the old adage, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Now Trump will have to double down on his defense of Russia in the future, or risk looking like a fool from this instance. Same goes with the Trumpeters, many are already convinced Russia is misunderstood ally simply because Russia dislikes the evil communist marxist muslim illegal alien Barack HUSSIEN Obama; the enemy of my enemy is my friend, again.

We can see that the Russian body politic was very glad to see Trump's victory, and you can find a disproportionate amount of ties between Trump, his associates and his investments, more so than any other president in history by leaps and bounds.
To me the evidence is very strong that Trump and Russia have had a symbiotic relationship, that is not bad in and of itself until you examine the geopolitical moves that Russia has made to directly undermine the US.

www.independent.co.uk...

And in a very strong way, you actually reasserted my point. You do not trust the very institutions that are sworn to serve and protect the US, the institutions the country pays dearly to maintain; the communists predicted and Russians suggested that America would be ultimately be defeated through the erosion of faith in these very institutions, including the democratic process and the " press". check check check check... This is because the country itself can be divided and turned against one another - check - the basis of reality is never certain - check

You go down the line and it appears these are being achieved as we speak.

You guys coming at me in this thread are about as deep as a thimble of water.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 07:48 AM
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originally posted by: 8675309jenny

You are aware that the world changes right ?


Federal Russia is not the USSR.

Republican party of the 80's is not the Republican Neo-con NWO party of today.

Democratic party of the 50'sis not the Democratic party of today.

Germany is not East and West anymore.

Britain is no longer an Empire.



I don't think anyone is stupid enough, even Trump; to think that Vladimir Putin is a saint and just a cheery ol' pal. But there is nothing wrong with working with the Russians to achieve common goals (of which there are many in the modern crazy world), while still closely monitoring what they are up to. We should always be vigilant and aware of any nations maneuvering. Although I personally feel Russia is looking in new directions for strategic partners as China becomes more powerful and Russia trusts them less and less.


Also for the record, even if Russia was directly behind the hack, all they did was release legitimate DNC emails to the public.

So if the Democrats lost the election because the public didn't like how dirty they were, that's THEIR PROBLEM. Why didn't anyone hack the RNC and release their dirt??? Are you telling me Clinton and her people are above hacking and dirt digging??? Hahahaha


Well, I am not sure why so many America's are so excepting of Russia having any involvement in America's political system.
Well, that is not true, the people who except it are the people who benefit from it, or achieved the outcome they desired.

I could only imagine if Russia pulled a similar maneuver to elect Barack HUSSEIN Obama hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha (that was even funnier than your Clinton line)

Conservatives would of probably started a civil war over something like that: "Russian hacks the GOP, swings the election towards Obama". But because they benefit, and can justify it and use plausible deniability or just plain old denial to overlook it, Putin and Russia hate Obama, the GOP and conservatives hate Obama, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
The problem is, now we have unleashed a huge collection of psychological implications that will impact our nation, our policies and the future. While you alluded to the idea that Soviet Russia is dead, you ignored the fact that the Leader and oligarchy in Russia is comprised of ex KGB assets who were steeped and trained in an anti-American culture, these are the power in power, TODAY. Do you really think those CULTURAL views die that easily?

Also, you ignoring the HUGE Middle Eastern oil play Russia just secured with the demise of Clinton's campaign, the end of Obama's presidency and a friendly like Trump in power. Russia just took virtually the entire Europe and Eurasian gas- oil market by securing the pipelines we have been fighting a proxy war over in Syria, AND they also took the rights to the OIL - NG futures for the US pipeline Obama was fighting to secure.

Guess what happens to Vladimir Putin's bank account now?

www.google.com... 220&bih=680#imgrc=Pq0LQzy4-UzxGM%3A



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Responding to the OP title...no. The left including Obama has defeated the USA. Maybe Trump can resurrect it but only time will tell.


Why don't you come back here Trumpeting after you read more than the title.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 07:56 AM
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originally posted by: WhyDidIJoin

originally posted by: banjobrain

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: banjobrain


This makes sense, except for one point. The Gov't of the U.S. is not the U.S.. The people are the nation, not the gov't.

Next, recognition that the house needs cleaning isn't a defeat. It's a step towards correction.

While I do not trust Putin, I do believe he can be and is fairly well understood by the west. Work with him where and when we can....the enemy of my enemies, scenario. The rest? Trust, but verify....



Well I am sorry to tell you, but Karl Marx himself documented how to destroy the America system and the ultimate objective is to erode all faith in the governmental systems so that the people and the countries responses are based upon reactivity and not STRATEGY. So now America will have two systems of truth? Play it out for yourself -

There is nothing to clean, the implications are that the government institutions we pay $1,000,000,000,000.00 + a year for are not trust worthy, and they actually lie on purpose. Sounds like the game is sown up...You can clean house enough to fix that, that is a fundamental, systemic problem


So you're saying Russia made Obama/Clinton be anti-american and pro - globalism? So that someone like Trump would have no choice but rise up and try to save us?


The irony of your statement is that Trump has business ventures in at least a 5th of countries around the globe, he is an actual globalist. haha

But whatevs, keep Trumpeting



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: banjobrain


Russia just took virtually the entire Europe and Eurasian gas- oil market by securing the pipelines we have been fighting a proxy war over in Syria, AND they also took the rights to the OIL - NG futures for the US pipeline Obama was fighting to secure.


Russia hasn't taken anything they didn't already have. They were allies to begin with. The US tried to destroy a sovereign country by proxy. How many dead children in Syria courtesy of your 'wallet'?



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: GodEmperor
a reply to: banjobrain

Democrats overwhelmingly supported Iraq war and patriot act. The GOP was voted against this year, they were opposed to Trump, the Right at least attempts to fix their mistakes. The Left doubled down with Hillary.

Let's not forget Obama re-authorized the patriot act, and expanded wars into Libya, syria, Yemen, and Pakistan.


This thread has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican yet GodEmperor comes in like a bat out of hell and makes it exactly about that. GodEmperor IS the propaganda that the original post is talking about. The devil has a name and it isn't democrat or republican.



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: banjobrain People just see Fake news for what it is and have written the MSM and our own intelligence community off as either being compromised or totally incompetent. The Russians are playing along and the only way they'll win is if we buy into the hogwash that they were involved in the hacking. I won't let them sucker us into starting a new cold war or to weaken whats left of our legitimate government. The ones urging us to buy into what they say are the ones we have to really look at and worry about.



posted on Jan, 13 2017 @ 12:24 AM
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Russia has sure gotten under certain people's skin in Washington D.C., and also the crybabies we saw in YouTube videos after Hillary lost.

What gets me is how Democrat leaders and a couple of Republicans, are willing to risk having all manner of DIRT on U.S. Congressmen, Governors, etc.. be exposed by Russia, just to get at Donald Trump.



posted on Jan, 13 2017 @ 12:49 AM
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A nation divided will not stand,and boy is America divided-no Russia required



posted on Jan, 13 2017 @ 12:52 AM
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originally posted by: WhyDidIJoin

So you're saying Russia made Obama/Clinton be anti-american and pro - globalism? So that someone like Trump would have no choice but rise up and try to save us?


Trump is a globalist, he has businesses in over 20 countries. He has his products made in Mexico, China, Pakistan and Bangladesh. What makes you think Trump is not a globalist?



posted on Jan, 13 2017 @ 12:52 AM
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originally posted by: khnum
A nation divided will not stand,and boy is America divided-no Russia required


Well that is the truth.



posted on Jan, 13 2017 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: ThingsThatDontMakeSense

Right, because DT is a manchurian candidate programmed by Russia who hacked the elections.



posted on Jan, 13 2017 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: banjobrain

Yes - this is very disturbing.



posted on Jan, 13 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: GodEmperor
a reply to: ThingsThatDontMakeSense

Right, because DT is a manchurian candidate programmed by Russia who hacked the elections.


That is not it at all.

DT is heavily invested in Russia and he is a friendly to Vlad and the oligarch there. My real concern is that the world order is changing and that Trump's money and friendship will prevent him from making the right moves for our country. A because he
has a disproportionate amount of his holdings in Russia, (per his son's omission in 2011) but B, these guys are also his friends
which will make it easier for them to con him into a short position while they are thinking long term.

Here is an example from before Obama was ever elected.

www.eturbonews.com...



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