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Has anyone actually bothered to read the IC Russian 'Hacking' Assessment?

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posted on Jan, 8 2017 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Lets be honest here and let me say that if that is the case that i can assume there are very very few people who very obviously "lean" left who's posts you still read?

Because the amount of:

Nazi
Sexist
Racist
Drumpfs
Deplorables

That has been incessantly thrown around in abuse ad-hominem has been nothing but staggering. That truly rules out a lot of people on here for you.

EDIT: I do however agree with you to a extend because often when i see that i start skipping or skimming posts, none of us should do it but if i see a certain poster who is not guilty of injecting such things in every other post i forgive it. It is the ones who systematically do this that are the problem.
edit on America/ChicagovAmerica/ChicagoSun, 08 Jan 2017 21:01:09 -06001720171America/Chicago by everyone because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 8 2017 @ 08:54 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth



Unfortunately, on an internet forum, an entire step by step is not always given or required. If you can't interpret, or at least seek further clarification, without jumping into an argument about it, that's not my problem.


I shouldn't have to interpret. I should be able to take you for your word. If I have to interpret, that means you were not clear in your post, or you said something absurd and are now deflecting by making my "interpretation" the focus instead of your words.



What I want Trump to do is not the point, and also was not the original point. What he could do is the point, made easier by the current intelligence community releasing propaganda and helping create a public opinion ripe for Trump to exploit.


Yes, he could do that, but why would we support a president using the intelligence community as an arm of propaganda?



Don't make the discussion personal.


A hypocritical statement considering you regularly questions people's intelligence as a debate tactic.


People interpret every day of their lives and if they do not understand, they usually seek clarification, before seeking conflict.

Why would anyone support a President using propaganda? Good question, perhaps its a thread of it's own because every President uses propaganda, especially the current one.


Indeed so why would he support obama. He made himself guilty of thi in the worst way imaginable :

Makes him look very stupid now doesn't it

And then send his CIA dogs out to claim that the election was rigged which shortly before that he himself proclaimed impossible weeks before it.

I actually have never seen a president campaign for a candidate until obama. Not to mention the amount and lengths he went through to do it. He went as far as recording free add's for hillary campaigning against one of the presidential candidates. He must have a lot of free time on his hands as POTUS or, He used up valuable time and invested it in this. The latter of course. First time i have seen something like this and truly odd.


edit on America/ChicagovAmerica/ChicagoSun, 08 Jan 2017 20:57:27 -06001720171America/Chicago by everyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2017 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: everyone
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Lets be honest here and let me say that if that is the case that i can assume there are very very few people who very obviously "lean" left who's posts you still read?

Because the amount of:

Nazi
Sexist
Racist
Drumpfs
Deplorables


No, not at all. All opinions and points of view contribute to a conversation.



posted on Jan, 8 2017 @ 09:22 PM
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As several people have pointed out already, there's no hard evidence that's been made public proving the Russians did this. Maybe there's hard evidence but what they've made public is weak and circumstantial and just as likely to indicate someone else wanted to make it look like Russia.

However, just for argument's sake, let's concede Russia did it.

As I recall, Obama made an impassioned plea for UK citizens to reject Brexit, and he laid out his case with points and "facts" - at least point and facts he considered supported his position for them to remain in the EU. He never presented points for the other side of the argument.

What did Russia do here? If your position is that they encouraged Americans to lean toward one choice rather than the other by only exposing dirt on the Democrats, how is it any different than what Obama did?

The only real differences are that one was a referendum and one was an election, and the Russians apparently wanted to remain anonymous.



posted on Jan, 8 2017 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: loam

Ya know, everytime I hear something about this story all I can think of is, "There are definitely WMD's in Iraq." Crazy how the crazy and fanatical far left gets duped over the same stuff over and over.



posted on Jan, 8 2017 @ 10:40 PM
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originally posted by: Joneselius
It's the same force....


The problem is that "FACTS" are like a brick wall. The truth cannot be changed to your will.

In order to be a "FORCE" you must deal with "FICTION", since that is the only thing you have the "power to direct."

No one can rule with the truth. True things do not bend to man's will.


edit on 8-1-2017 by AMPTAH because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 02:24 AM
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originally posted by: ventian
a reply to: loam

Ya know, everytime I hear something about this story all I can think of is, "There are definitely WMD's in Iraq." Crazy how the crazy and fanatical far left gets duped over the same stuff over and over.


What?! How in the world do you think that?? Dick Cheney wouldn't appreciate this mischaracterization.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that a lot of Republicans think this report is accurate, that Russia "hacked our election" and want retribution on Putin:


Reuters
In a joint appearance on NBC's "Meet the Press" on Sunday, Republican Senators Lindsey Graham and John McCain said evidence was conclusive that Putin sought to influence the election - a point that Trump has refuted repeatedly by arguing it might be impossible to tell who was responsible. "In a couple weeks, Donald Trump will be the defender of the free world and democracy," Graham said. "You should let everybody know in America, Republicans and Democrats, that you're going to make Russia pay a price for trying to interfere." Both senators said they remain unsure if they will support Trump's pick for secretary of state, former Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N) Chairman and CEO Rex Tillerson, who has been criticized for his close ties to Putin. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee is scheduled to hold a hearing on Wednesday to consider Tillerson's nomination.


This quarrel isn't between Russia and the United States, it's between members of the Western Ruling Class and the Russian Oligarchs control of oil and natural gas pipelines.

It has zero to do with political ideologies.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 03:52 AM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: UKTruth

I have to be honest. When I saw you use the term "libtard" a while back, I stopped reading anything that you have to say.

If we don't have civil discourse we have nothing and anyone who violates it isn't worth paying any attention to.



Yet you responded to me? Why? To admonish me?
I have a suggestion and now I have to be honest - stop being a sanctimonious p****. If I want to use the term libtard in the mud pit then I will do. I think it is an excellent portmanteau to sling mud when required.
Hopefully that is clear enough for you.

edit on 9/1/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 05:00 AM
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There's a really strange dichotomy on this website.

On the one hand the 'evidence' and 'proof' of Hillary Clintons illegal email activities were posted about and ranted about on a daily basis. And even though she was cleared many times and no criminal charges were ever brought against her, most people on this site are absolutely convinced of her guilt.

And on the other hand, 'evidence' and 'proof' of Donald Trumps many illegal activities is instantly dismissed as pure bunkum.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 05:15 AM
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originally posted by: Painterz
There's a really strange dichotomy on this website.

On the one hand the 'evidence' and 'proof' of Hillary Clintons illegal email activities were posted about and ranted about on a daily basis. And even though she was cleared many times and no criminal charges were ever brought against her, most people on this site are absolutely convinced of her guilt.

And on the other hand, 'evidence' and 'proof' of Donald Trumps many illegal activities is instantly dismissed as pure bunkum.


Hillary was not cleared of her illegal email activities. She was investigated and was found to have broken the law. The decision was not to indict.
As yet there is no evidence made public that Russia provided wikileaks with the documents wikileaks then published during the election cycle, only a set of opinions.
As for Trumps 'many illegal activities', I am not sure what you are referring to. Perhaps you could outline them in a different thread)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 06:14 AM
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I'm 90% certain this Russia hacking story is complete BS and its made me even less trusting of our government and way less confident of its competence. I support Trump and hope he'll do a good job, although I don't like him. But we dodged a bullet by not electing Hillary. She'd be completely untrustworthy and absolutely working against us in favor of herself and her political allies and bosses. I chalk it up to them wanting a phony new cold war with Russia and Putin is playing along since its benefits him. Had Hillary been elected they'd have propped her up as a Ronald Reagan in drag staring down the evil Russians. Complete and utter nonsense given she's so decrepit and completely compromised ethically. But they could call the shots and distract us while they loot and plunder any country the Mega Banks wanted to knock off. So if we start wondering why the dog and pony show to get us to buy this Russian hacking nonsense, we have to ask why they did the same with Pizzagate and have been doing the same for years with global warming. Now they want to stop all questioning of themselves by the internet and want to control it to limit the peoples access to alternative truth sources. And to limit free speech. They aren't happy with Trump and want to weaken him. Thank God they have gotten sloppy and had serious brain drain in their own ranks which makes it easier to counter them.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 06:58 AM
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originally posted by: Painterz
There's a really strange dichotomy on this website.

On the one hand the 'evidence' and 'proof' of Hillary Clintons illegal email activities were posted about and ranted about on a daily basis. And even though she was cleared many times and no criminal charges were ever brought against her, most people on this site are absolutely convinced of her guilt.

And on the other hand, 'evidence' and 'proof' of Donald Trumps many illegal activities is instantly dismissed as pure bunkum.


There is no need or even valid reason to put the words "Proof" and "Evidence" in quotation marks when refferencing hillary's case. Even the leaked e-mails which have been confirmed to be real by the CIA/DHS/DNI and UKTruth pointed out the rest already, they just did not indict her because she is a part of the good 'ol boys club (which is a bit ironic for a pretend feminist).

Even just running that server privately, conducting state businesses on it is already a crime.

But what many proven illegal activities from Trump do you refer too?


edit on America/ChicagovAmerica/ChicagoMon, 09 Jan 2017 07:09:13 -06001720171America/Chicago by everyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 07:02 AM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: everyone
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Lets be honest here and let me say that if that is the case that i can assume there are very very few people who very obviously "lean" left who's posts you still read?

Because the amount of:

Nazi
Sexist
Racist
Drumpfs
Deplorables


No, not at all. All opinions and points of view contribute to a conversation.


Then i dont completely understand. Following that reasoning then why do you say that you stopped reading any of UKTruths posts for that very reason? I read many of his posts and he certaintly does not even throw it around like how i described many others do.


edit on America/ChicagovAmerica/ChicagoMon, 09 Jan 2017 07:08:17 -06001720171America/Chicago by everyone because: Typo



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 07:30 AM
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a reply to: Reverbs

The agenda is Russian. The Russians are in an economic spiral and grasping. We are a world superpower but we just got played by their 3rd world propaganda. Putin is on top of the world right now, "winning" because Americans believe tremendous lies. The rest of the world is reporting this, not "biased" news sources but hundreds of objective reports are reporting our elections in the free United States of America have been compromised by a foreign power. This is not Kennedy or Bush stealing a few votes here and there, this is another country, a country that has objectives not set to benefit our citizenry.

ATS used to be a place where conspiracy theories could be explored. Now the undermining of our democratic system is all about "Democrats?" Puh-leeze.

I'm an Independent with colleagues on either side of the aisle. The Repubs in high places I know are terrified of what Trump is going to do to this country to suit his own needs, not the needs of any part of our population. Seriously, why not take off the red-tinted glasses and look at the truth?

Any guess who Trump owes a sh%#ton of money to? He has a big debt to pay off and he is doing it with our democracy. Do a little minor searching on the web and there it is. No thanks. Some on this board seem to WELCOME this takeover by a foreign power of our sovereign country. I do not. I don't always trust my govm't but I'm not a fool. The evidence is all over the place. Moreover, it's even WORSE than the released intel:

www.slate.com...

If you're cool with Russia guiding policy in America, then you are a new breed of American as far as I am concerned. I say NO THANKS! I'm not selling MY soul to that devil. Research what life is like for most people living in Russia, go there, check it out first-hand, if that's your lifestyle, go for it. But here in America we have free and fair elections, a constitution that ensures our basic rights and freedom of the press. I don't want to live in a dictatorship. I value my freedom.

Freedom isn't free. I'm prepared to fight for my democracy. If you are happy to hand your rights over to a foreign power, that's your prerogative. But I'm not going to join the hate rhetoric and give up my freedom to a 3rd world power.

Seriously, it's unbelievable how DEEP this propaganda has penetrated the souls of good Americans. WAKE UP!
edit on 9-1-2017 by edithinthesky because: (format correction)



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: edithinthesky

So when the Podesta e-mails were released, should we have listened to CNN and not read them?
And please tone down the Hyperbole. Believe it or not, the President doesn't have supreme powers to do whatever he likes, there are these cool things called "checks and balances" that were installed a few years ago, just in case they were needed.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 07:56 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Who released the Podesta emails again? I would like to see the emails from ALL the candidates and parties, to be fair, so we can see what levels of nastiness are in all the parties when it comes to election time. What does CNN have to do with this? I tend to survey a wide variety of news sources. I'm an objective person and I'd never just look at one side of an issue. My theory is that the Russians have all the emails, and can use them at will for blackmail as far as the Republicans. At the very least, that should make for some interesting news in the next few years (no matter who reports it) and will affect the whole cool "checks and balances" thing.

Hyperbole? I'd like to further believe in those checks and balances (and the rights guaranteed the 4th Estate) but in this environment, anything goes and many of the tenets of democracy are being and will be chucked out the window. Trump doesn't understand the necessary process and procedure of government and I believe he will find ways around it, or throw a tantrum when he does not get his way. Or, call in Russia to discredit a foe when he sees fit. Again, not my kind of democracy.

Back to the topic, Russia has an agenda in America and it's playing out in front of our eyes. To dismiss the reality as conspiracy is naive. I've been studying propaganda my entire life. The case of the 2016 election is a doozy. Industrial psychology is a sinister thing.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: edithinthesky

so you would rather be left in the dark. I guess if that's how you like to live, so be it.

But as to the hyperbole, Trump has not yet been inaugurated, so the fears of what he might do as president are a bit premature.

And Russia may have hacked the DNC, along with many other entities, much like they and we hack other places on a daily basis. If we were hacked repeatedly for years, why is this one hack so damn important? Because it "undermined our democracy"? or because it revealed the scummy underbelly of the political machine? I think rather than come up with ways to be angry at Russia, we need to look inside our own process and figure our where we went so wrong with how each party does business.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 08:57 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I'm not in the dark, and my head is not in the sand. I just take into account sources and attributions when assessing information. It's more than a "hack." It revealed the "scummy underbelly" of only ONE political machine. What about the other ones?



we need to look inside our own process and figure our where we went so wrong with how each party does business.


Hear, hear! Totally agree. Both need an overhaul and a reminder of how a democracy runs -- representative of the populace and not one individual's ego, power, special interests, greed, etc. Now, let's have a full report of the Repubs secret emails as well, and what about some transparency about our President-elect's financial obligations to the country who hacked his opponent? Seriously. I think the Repubs would demand the same if the shoe was on the other foot. It's just shady stuff. I'm still confused as to why ATS folks are not tearing this red meat up and getting to the bottom of it rather than continuing this -- sorry for the term but it fits -- circle-jerk of rabid hate for the Dems.

There's no anger at Russia. I just personally want to live in a democracy and not buy/accept blindly obvious biased propaganda from a some struggling, corrupt state trying to influence our democratic process. Simple stuff.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:07 AM
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originally posted by: edithinthesky
a reply to: network dude

My theory is that the Russians have all the emails, and can use them at will for blackmail as far as the Republicans.


As with most conspiracy theories, there is a glaring hole in this. What if Clinton won? Then they already used their leverage and have nothing to blackmail her with. If their goal was to have dirt to blackmail the incoming administration with, they wouldn't have released anything pre-election. IF they were going to release one party, they probably would've released dirt on the RNC because almost everyone expected Trump to lose. They could have cemented his loss and kept the DNC stuff in their back pocket for the incoming Clinton admin. Doing the opposite makes no sense because even after the release Clinton was still projected to win.

Sorry to burst your bubble.



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: edithinthesky
a reply to: network dude

My theory is that the Russians have all the emails, and can use them at will for blackmail as far as the Republicans.


As with most conspiracy theories, there is a glaring hole in this. What if Clinton won? Then they already used their leverage and have nothing to blackmail her with. If their goal was to have dirt to blackmail the incoming administration with, they wouldn't have released anything pre-election. IF they were going to release one party, they probably would've released dirt on the RNC because almost everyone expected Trump to lose. They could have cemented his loss and kept the DNC stuff in their back pocket for the incoming Clinton admin. Doing the opposite makes no sense because even after the release Clinton was still projected to win.

Sorry to burst your bubble.


Bingo


The Russians, like most everyone else, would have thought Clinton was a certainty to win the election. Putin would not have been stupid enough to go all in on trying to ensure her defeat. I suspect nothing has changed. Russia have been intelligence gathering for years and have plenty of material on both Clinton and Trump.

So far the most credible explanation of where wikileaks got their information is as they themselves have said... from a non state source who leaked the info to them.



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