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God creates us and loves us but if you're gay you go to hell?

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posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 06:59 AM
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originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: TAECOLE7
I have witnessed multiple babies grow to children and turn to be gay. They have no idea of sexuality, they just know they are attracted to the same sex and they don't even know it's wrong or different than anyone else until we tell them so.


Oh my! I've only been following this thread because I posted in it earlier and through reading, I can't decide if the blind belief in supernatural mythology expressed here and so passionately defended is amusing or just disturbing? You do you - that's fine, but wow.

At any rate, I want to address the quoted post specifically. TAECOLE7, although I appreciate the attitudes and positivity and the notion of being "born this way" you've shared, you are definitely mixed up on the differences between being gay and being transgender and between and gender identity and gender expression. It seems like you might be open to understanding more about these things and why I'm chiming back in. It won't hurt others to hear either.


As they get older they feel they are trapped in the wrong body and some feel normal dressing as the opposite sex. Like it's who they truly are and they finally feel "right and normal" but we tell them they are not.


Gay people do not feel "trapped in the wrong body". This "trapped" meme is from being trans, not gay. What drives people to "change sex" is a medically diagnosable condition as recognized by all major medical organizations throughout the world that is called gender dysphoria but it is only incidental to sexuality or who one is attracted to. I've known some very effeminate gay men in my day but none thought they were women. I've met some masculine men married to women that transition to become women. Being transgender is something independent from who you want to sleep with.


What straight man one day wakes up and desides to live as a woman? ? Come on ppl! Why would a heterosexual man choose that?


Or what gay man would? The desire to change gender has nothing to do with who you are attracted to. It is a matter of who you are inside to yourself and it isn't something you wake up with. And yes, people are indeed born with these feelings that often are manifested long before the development or expression of sexuality, in children for example, long before even foggiest notion of who it is they are attracted to enters the picture. Speaking as someone that was indeed "born this way" and since this is the Religion, Faith and Theology forum, I can unequivocally say " this is how (insert whatever god) made me."


the teen boy that comes in my job twice a week to shop wearing a dress and heels because it makes him feel normal.


So about this... without knowing more, it seems like you might making a lot of assumptions here? Maybe it is a boy that likes girls things, likes to push boundaries and is a transtrender? That seems to be on par with being goth or emo these days? Maybe he doesn't think he is a he and could possibly be in early stages of transitioning to be a girl? Maybe he would rather be perceived as a she and feels herself to be? Maybe they're questioning or experimenting with how they express themselves? Whatever the case it or whatever 52 Tumblr genders this person might label themselves beyond the binary, it would still be presumptuous to assume who they might be attracted to or that they are gay or what gender they are.

At least you've been unconcerned one way or the other about who or what they are which is something a whole lot of people could take example from. I commend you for that but find your incomplete or mixed up understanding of these things somewhat cringy but know that for those that will listen, this can be a great place to learn more and be better informed.

Again, you've said some good things that need to be said about LBGT people and your efforts are admirable and appreciated. You sound like you are open-minded to learning so I hope you don't mind my bringing these things to your attention? My inbox is open if you'd like to discuss further.

To tie this back into the religious aspect and going to hell for being gay or trans, my only question is will there be snacks and what time are cocktails being served? I'm sure I'll see some of those that lack love and compassion in their hearts because of a book towards their fellow human beings down there and we can have a party!
While I notice that you are attempting to be analytical and objective here, it's presumptuous in conclusion. You're making a general conclusion based upon "knowledge known" in other words deductive reasoning, there are homosexuals that think that the desire derives from the mind when it actually originates from the body and the mind is aware of the desire so in turn they feel "trapped" as well as with others of a different concept. To suggest that more understanding and/or knowledge seems to be needed unfortunately can never rise above a simple "personal view".




posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 08:49 AM
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Isn't it funny how the people who are most outspoken against homosexuality turn out to be one in the end?



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 09:24 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
Isn't it funny how the people who are most outspoken against homosexuality turn out to be one in the end?
Yep



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: Freth

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: auto3000

Well yeah?
The whole 'God loves us unconditionally' nonsense unraveled with the story of the great flood.
1. God creates humans
2. God gives humans free will
3. God loves said humans unconditionally
4. Humans don't use the granted free will the way God WANTED
5. He kills them all

I have a better understanding of love than this God.
That's why I'm better than the Christian God, I don't kill what I love, I love what I love.
That God is a total hypocrite (proved many times over by the bible) and should not be listened to

Make your own choices man, you are your own God.


Genesis 6:1-13

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

In a nutshell, man had turned away from God and was irredeemable. It's been about 6000 years since the flood. Man is still turning away from God and putting himself above God and calling himself a god, which man can never be. I still can't believe that men would rather perish than be a part of God's kingdom. Who are we to question His actions? We were given life, given the breath of life (which is God's, not ours). It's because of God's grace that you and I exist.

The arrogance of men knows no bounds.


it is arrogant to think any kind of authority is above rebuke especially if that authority resorts to genocide to solve its problems. we have been down that road if you will recall.



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 04:20 PM
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originally posted by: auto3000

While I notice that you are attempting to be analytical and objective here, it's presumptuous in conclusion.

What's presumptuous here is you assuming that I'm objective when the fact is I have very strong one-sided feelings and opinions that I've chosen to be somewhat subtle in expressing. Perhaps it just went over your head?


... there are homosexuals that think that the desire derives from the mind when it actually originates from the body...

Without pulling any punches, this is nonsensical gibberish and made up crap.


... the mind is aware of the desire so in turn they feel "trapped" as well as with others of a different concept.

Trapped by a marginalizing society and oppressive attitudes as shown by some of the posters in this thread that want to treat LGBT people differently or send them to hell? Maybe? Those chains are easily broken and all one has to do is say "screw it" and live life on their own terms and hold their head high. I've never heard a gay man or lesbian say they felt "trapped in the wrong body" though. That particular meme, that I wish would die, is exclusive to trans people as an overly simplistic way of explaining the experience to clueless non-trans people. In contrast to being "trapped", I think you might find most LGBT people feel rather liberated and freer than most once the shackles of repressive ideology have been shaken off.


To suggest that more understanding and/or knowledge seems to be needed unfortunately can never rise above a simple "personal view".

Perhaps you would like references to scientific and medical research that is certainly capable of elevating this discussion well beyond the realm of "personal view"? The opinions I express are substantiated and based on facts, science and a lifetime of experience, not some ancient hocus pocus text filled with magic and monsters.

Also, please learn to use the quote tags.



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 04:36 PM
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a reply to: Freija

Sweetie...you know we love you.

The uglies notwithstanding.



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Freija

Sweetie...you know we love you.

The uglies notwithstanding.
well said, if there's one thing that I don't desire to debate over is people's personal feelings.



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: Freija

There's no place in here for this mess. Disrespect is not necessary. You deserve no further response. Carry on.



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 04:51 PM
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originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: auto3000

While I notice that you are attempting to be analytical and objective here, it's presumptuous in conclusion.

What's presumptuous here is you assuming that I'm objective when the fact is I have very strong one-sided feelings and opinions that I've chosen to be somewhat subtle in expressing. Perhaps it just went over your head?


... there are homosexuals that think that the desire derives from the mind when it actually originates from the body...

Without pulling any punches, this is nonsensical gibberish and made up crap.


... the mind is aware of the desire so in turn they feel "trapped" as well as with others of a different concept.

Trapped by a marginalizing society and oppressive attitudes as shown by some of the posters in this thread that want to treat LGBT people differently or send them to hell? Maybe? Those chains are easily broken and all one has to do is say "screw it" and live life on their own terms and hold their head high. I've never heard a gay man or lesbian say they felt "trapped in the wrong body" though. That particular meme, that I wish would die, is exclusive to trans people as an overly simplistic way of explaining the experience to clueless non-trans people. In contrast to being "trapped", I think you might find most LGBT people feel rather liberated and freer than most once the shackles of repressive ideology have been shaken off.


To suggest that more understanding and/or knowledge seems to be needed unfortunately can never rise above a simple "personal view".

Perhaps you would like references to scientific and medical research that is certainly capable of elevating this discussion well beyond the realm of "personal view"? The opinions I express are substantiated and based on facts, science and a lifetime of experience, not some ancient hocus pocus text filled with magic and monsters.

Also, please learn to use the quote tags.
If this belief helps you walk with a good conscience and understanding of reality then it's only right to say "you gotta what you gotta do".....as long as it brings you peace.



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: auto3000

So.....do you have any capacity for deep thought, empathy, compassion, and understanding of complicated ideas?




(check one:

YES

or NO

then use your literacy to type it in a response to me)
WOW



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 05:10 PM
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a reply to: auto3000

Oh dear......

Are you questioning your sexuality perhaps? You seem to be swinging from one side to the other like some pendulum out of control in this debate.

Let me shed some light on this misconception you have espoused below




... there are homosexuals that think that the desire derives from the mind when it actually originates from the body...




That's right, everything we feel originates from the hypothalamus gland in the brain. Even sexual attraction and love.
When you break it down to it's most basic level, all human traits we have are nothing more than an addiction to peptides created by the hypothalmus.

And......

That includes spirituality......
edit on 11-1-2017 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: auto3000

Oh dear......

Are you questioning your sexuality perhaps? You seem to be swinging from one side to the other like some pendulum out of control in this debate.

Let me shed some light on this misconception you have espoused below




... there are homosexuals that think that the desire derives from the mind when it actually originates from the body...




That's right, everything we feel originates from the hypothalamus gland in the brain. Even sexual attraction and love.
When you break it down to it's most basic level, all human traits we have are nothing more than an addiction to peptides created by the hypothalmus.

And......

That includes spirituality......
LOL, that's funny but no, attempts of human reasoning has that effect on some minds....



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: auto3000

So.....do you have any capacity for deep thought, empathy, compassion, and understanding of complicated ideas?




(check one:

YES

or NO

then use your literacy to type it in a response to me)
WOW
Interesting....a question...then gives options that you decided?....a box maybe?



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: TAECOLE7
a reply to: Freija

There's no place in here for this mess. Disrespect is not necessary. You deserve no further response. Carry on.

Wait, what? Sure, I've made a few strategic jabs at religion's hypocrisy in loving thy neighbor except those that are gay or whatever and damned to the depths of fire and brimstone because of it but expressing an opinion should not be taken as any more "disrespect" than those that think someone like me should eternally burn in hell, which I personally think is pretty disrespectful to my humanity.

Furthermore, I praised you for your tolerant and accepting attitudes and went out of my way to help you better understand matters of sexuality and gender or at least to not necessarily conflate one with the other so you would sound better informed when discussing this subject. I was trying to help. Sorry if my disdain for religion overshadowed that fact.


originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Sweetie...you know we love you.

Thank you, Ms. Buzzy. That makes me feel like I do have a place here.


originally posted by: auto3000
LOL, that's funny but no, attempts of human reasoning has that effect on some minds....

I'm afraid I'm either I'm too dense to follow or you just aren't making any sense?



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 07:19 PM
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I'm afraid I'm either I'm too dense to follow or you just aren't making any sense?


Well, not making sense would be subjectively speaking. It seems to me that we are reading each other's dialog but not understanding the intention....The main post was expressed to me by a homosexual concerning religion, because I don't speek against them. I'm noticing that some on the dialogs are thinking it's my own feelings.


edit on 11-1-2017 by auto3000 because: None

edit on 11-1-2017 by auto3000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2017 @ 10:38 PM
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a reply to: Noinden

The funny part is that he keeps repeating it...a 2 minute diversion to google will show how silly he is



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 06:13 AM
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a reply to: auto3000

It is a YES or NO question.


Do you? Or do you NOT - have any capacity for deep thought, empathy, compassion, and understanding of complicated ideas?

You can break it down into 4 smaller questions if you like, and take them one at a time.

Do you, or do you NOT have any capacity for:

A) deep thought? (as opposed to be shallow and vapid)

B) empathy? (look it up if you don't understand what it means)

C) compassion? (see above)

D) understanding of complicated ideas? (goes back to "deep thought")


Might wanna pull up an online dictionary before answering.
And be aware you'd need to be able to look deep inside your own bubble to answer any of those real grown-up questions.



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 06:21 AM
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Look, I have no idea why anyone is still arguing about this. At some point Jesus will come back and then all the gays will get tossed into the Lake of Fire and there will never be another gake or any other thing that furthers their agenda.

Then Jesus and the 12 dudes he is friends with can throw a big party and play Liza Minnelli songs and give each other a mani/pedi.



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 06:23 AM
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"hell" only exists if you believe in that kind of thing.



posted on Jan, 12 2017 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Why google (or fact check) when you can do the Goebbels maneuver



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