'Humanitarian crisis' in NHS hospitals, warns Red Cross

This thread is about the NHS in England......

Not about bickering with each other.
So it stops NOW!!!!

You are responsible for your own posts.



and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

On topic 'humanitarian crisis' is a lame drama queen headline chaser by the British Red Cross.
Syria and Yemen are humanitarian crisis'.
Shame on you Red Cross for belittling real crisis'.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

My mate just finished his nursing degree and walked straight into a job at the local hospital.
The overwhelming majority of his degree time was on placement in hospitals doing 12 hour shifts.

Maybe things are different in different parts of the UK.

Same with my friends and I (all trained in the UK). Half of our degree was on clinical placements, working 13 hours a day. We all ended up being employed by the hospital that trained us and nobody ended up on benefits as the NHS was (is) desperate for nurses... everybody got a job.

The problem with the NHS is exactly what many have said: the government wants to destroy it as they want to adopt a private insurance type of healthcare like the American one. They don't care about the working men and women.

a reply to: Agartha

Don't you think a net increase in population of 300,000 each year, with no extra staff or new hospitals could be a factor?

I know it's the elephant in the room and none of the 4 nations have expanded to meet the increase in people.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Agartha

Don't you think a net increase in population of 300,000 each year, with no extra staff or new hospitals could be a factor?

I know it's the elephant in the room and none of the 4 nations have expanded to meet the increase in people.

What I see where I work is the elderly blocking the beds. Unfortunately a huge number of older people who are medically fit to be discharged, cannot leave because they don't have package of care or a place in a care home (or rehab/interim community hospital). Lack of funding by social services is causing our bed-blocking crisis.

According to the University of Oxford immigration is not a problem. On this page there is a link to their report:

Effects of immigration on NHS waiting times

a reply to: Agartha

Thanks I'll have a read but it is pretty obvious that in any sector with increased customers and no related increase in services to meet demand then there will be queues.
That's basic business, whatever the sector.

*edit*
And before the rabid dogs arrive, I don't blame immigrants, I blame the government for not investing to meet the obvious increase in customers of millions over the last decade or so.

a reply to: grainofsand

Roughly 20% of NHS staff are from overseas. More than the % of population. Imigration is providing more supply than demand when it comes to health care.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Oh behave, it doesn't matter where the people who come to the UK work, my point stands, if a service has extra people to provide for then the service provider must invest and expand.

The UK has not expanded to meet the obvious increase of millions of people.
Don't pull the anti immigrant thing or even imply it.
simple supply and demand.

a reply to: grainofsand

Yes if we have a higher population we an have more people working in healthcare. The demographics of immigration support this. Simple supply and demand as you say.

If we don't do this that is entirely the choice of government, not the fault directly or otherwise of imigrants.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Oh FFS, I said in my earlier post I blame the government for not investing to meet the demands of a population increasing by 300,000 a year through immigration.

Of course this increase in population and lack of investment to meet the demand is going to cause queues.

Say there was one chip shop in a village and a thousand new homes were built there, you'd need more chip shops or there'd be queues.
Do you disagree about that?

a reply to: grainofsand

Your edit wasn't there ( or I hadn't seen it when I posted).

In this case I agree with you ( must be a full moon)

In the case of health care, with increasing age demographic of UK population, immigration is essential to maintain services. It only becomes a burden if the government refuses to acknowledge the reality of healthcare demand.

The NHS is in my view one of best services in the world but we spend less on healthcare than many comparable countries. Think how good it could be if properly funded.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I agree, and I'd be happy to pay an extra few percent on my taxes if it was dedicated to health and social care.
While our population is continuing to grow at the rate it is the investment is essential or it will fall to #.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Agartha

Thanks I'll have a read but it is pretty obvious that in any sector with increased customers and no related increase in services to meet demand then there will be queues.
That's basic business, whatever the sector.

*edit*
And before the rabid dogs arrive, I don't blame immigrants, I blame the government for not investing to meet the obvious increase in customers of millions over the last decade or so.

If you visit the A&E department where I work (South-East Dorset) you'd see that almost 2/3 of admissions are elderly and almost 1/3 are intoxicated people (alcohol/drugs). 95% + are White British, not immigrants.

70% of A&E admissions last year had a not classifiable diagnosis (which ranges from being drunk to snuffles). Only 30% of people had to be admitted.

Accident and Emergency Statistics: Demand, Performance and Pressure

Many suggest people visit A&E because they cannot get a GP appointment, however, the GP survey 2016 showed no significant deterioration of services: 85% of people were able to see their GP - 11% were either unable to get an appointment or were given an inconvenient day or time (the numbers have not changed much since previous years). Of those 11% only 4% visited an A&E department.

GP Patient Survey 2016

The increasing elderly population is lacking enough community support. My personal opinion as someone who works for the NHS and looks after the elderly, is that the government should increase the budget for our older population social care.

a reply to: Agartha

That would tally with your local social demographics then surely?
I assume as you say 95% of Dorset is white British.
High percentage of old retired as well, so of course that would be your experience.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Blame Sturgeon for whatever issues you wanna whine about in Scotland.
Health is a devolved issue solely the responsibility of the Scottish government.

The Scottish government have enough money to provide free prescription medicines to everyone regardless of personal income so if health care is crappie there blame the spending choices of your OWN elected government, not Westminster.

Sorry,? feel free to point out where is said the health service was crap north of the border. Feel free to point out where i even mentioned Scotland. ? While we are on the subject though. The NHS north of the border is outperforming the NHS in England and we can thank Nicola and the SNP for that.

EDIT...Bearing in mind that the retirment age is higher than the life expectancy.....not to shabby a performance.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

So why do you whine so much if you've got it so good?
I have always wondered that to be honest.

...happy belated new year by the way fella.

a reply to: Agartha

Dorset is hardly representative of many parts of the UK. Small aging population and probably lacking in immigrants I believe. W

Well my gp practice has regularly told me personally to go to A&E and I know of many MANY people that do turn up at A & E because they can't get a doctors appt. The nurses and doctors are pretty fed up with it.

They built a small housing estate in Bradford across the road from my dad to accommodate Philippino nurses

Trusts have been holding recruitment fairs in Spain & Portugal with the promise of free housing and some promising jobs for husbands/partners too and more importantly MORE PAY than our own nurses

EU legislation means EU nurses don't have to be tested on their English speaking reading & writing skills

Meanwhile there are nurses on the dole promised jobs but after a year still unemployed. These are the ones leaving the country and going to Canada, Australia and elsewhere. They go for better money, better hours, and generally better benefits. The nursing jobs advertised are plentiful...in the private sector. The Government has now saddled nurses with the debt of a student loan even before they get a job, but if they go abroad they dont' have to pay it back.

One of my friend's daughter has joined the army as she and her other friends couldn't get jobs except in private hospitals.

Calderdale A&E is used as a meeting place for Muslim women who take up space and time. The staff have hell on getting them to leave. These women go to the hospital with the tiniest problem or child and spend most of the evening there with their friends (as many aren't allowed out otherwise!). I've seen them regularly they bring food to share and refuse to leave until around 10pm which causes huge backlogs but no-one dare say anything for fear of the racist card being thrown at them and the hospital

These are facts and my own experiences

originally posted by: grainofsand
On topic 'humanitarian crisis' is a lame drama queen headline chaser by the British Red Cross.
Syria and Yemen are humanitarian crisis'.
Shame on you Red Cross for belittling real crisis'.

That's why I brought it here, I figured somebody would disagree with the headline.

That being said, we had a NHS nurse here posting and they pointed out how stretch marks have been visible for a while.

Maybe next festive period could have a bit too much straw for the proverbial camel's back.

Mainly all I can offer is personal experience and opinion but even then I must say I have the utmost respect for those who work for the NHS foreigners or not.

I'm not sure what the answer is... We still have some of the best staff and training in the world, though the trend of our staff working abroad is a riding trend so I'd like to think a remedy lies their.

After all it's disproportionate, NHS staff are in a highly stressful job without working 50-60 hours a week. They need better pay and working hours, that alone would make the training more accessible for the individual.

At the end of the day if you could earn 50k being a civil engineer why would you train to be in a more stressful job that pays on average 30k. No brainer right?

Of course their is the general conspiracy that they (tptb) want nothing more than to privatise the NHS, some obvious truth to that as they have played about with the system for a while now, most of our public services have been toyed with. Money obviously plays a big part and most of this angst is by the hand of a Tory government.

Was it a humanitarian crisis?

No, not exactly. Though I can guarantee that this time next year it will be progressively worse unless we do something, the fact remains that many services have been slashed or in the process of being so. Ultimately it puts more pressure on the core services of the NHS.

I love this country, I love that services exist that are not for profit. That goes for health, education and housing... I keep seeing these things being destroyed and it isn't down to overuse.

I think it's down to the fact that supporting services are so badly corroded that many must use the core services or if they can afford it, go private.

originally posted by: RAY1990

originally posted by: grainofsand
On topic 'humanitarian crisis' is a lame drama queen headline chaser by the British Red Cross.
Syria and Yemen are humanitarian crisis'.
Shame on you Red Cross for belittling real crisis'.

That's why I brought it here, I figured somebody would disagree with the headline.

That being said, we had a NHS nurse here posting and they pointed out how stretch marks have been visible for a while.

Maybe next festive period could have a bit too much straw for the proverbial camel's back.

Mainly all I can offer is personal experience and opinion but even then I must say I have the utmost respect for those who work for the NHS foreigners or not.

I'm not sure what the answer is... We still have some of the best staff and training in the world, though the trend of our staff working abroad is a riding trend so I'd like to think a remedy lies their.

After all it's disproportionate, NHS staff are in a highly stressful job without working 50-60 hours a week. They need better pay and working hours, that alone would make the training more accessible for the individual.

At the end of the day if you could earn 50k being a civil engineer why would you train to be in a more stressful job that pays on average 30k. No brained right?

Of course their is the general conspiracy that they (tptb) want nothing more than to privatise the NHS, some obvious truth to that as they have played about with the system for a while now, most if our public services have been toyed with. Money obviously plays a big part and most of this angst is by the hand of a Tory government.

Was it a humanitarian crisis?

No, not exactly. Though I can guarantee that this time next year it will be progressively worse unless we do something, the fact remains that many services have been slashed or in the process of being so. Ultimately it buts more pressure on the core services of the NHS.

I love this country, I love that services exist that are not for profit. That goes for health, education and housing... I keep seeing these things being destroyed and it isn't down to overuse.

I have in my possession FACTS I applied for the FOIA on both the NHS and also the DOH there are two completely different departments that do not actually work as closely as you think. I argued that we pay out to much on simple item ie Cling Film where its 32p in ASDA and the NHS gets charged nearly £5 for same product just wrapped different. All cling film is clinically safe. You also have the private ambulance brigade where a 180 mile round trip gets charged at over £300 and paid to a private company that makes fortunes off the back of MY beloved NHS. The rabbit hole here is deep and disgusting. I have only been aloud the information of any payments made over £25,000 since 2013 (the earliest I am legally aloud to go back which is weird?) Specsavers our high-street optician is bankrolled like no one else and the owner of said company is doing more than ok?

Am I able to give you access to these files or is it Illegal to pass on the information? I'm not bothered ill do it what ever, but I do not want ATS getting any retribution on this. It makes for a very excellent read if anyone is interested and yes its all done by design to privatise OUR NHS which is a birthright and has been fought over for years!
this particular privatisation will start the revolution they are desperate to avoid.

a reply to: Dinnedwiththedevil

If it's publicly accessible information then I can see no reason why not.

It's not the first time I've heard about liberties being took in terms of government contracts so I for one would love to hear what you have.

Though personally I'd urge you to make another thread, it's clearly worthy of it's own. I'd hate to see such information buried or simply passed over.