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Space Watch: The Russians Are Coming

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posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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Heres an interesting link about how Russia’s space industry is growing rapidly, and what they have planned for the future: www.spacedaily.com...



Topping all this, a number of Russian government and industry officials have expressed guarded optimism their country will mount its own effort to send humans to Mars, sometime around 2015. Nor has this overview mentioned pending launches in 2005 on Russian rockets of cutting-edge solar-sail and space-mirror technologies.


Post what you guys think to this




posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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Hmmmm. I thought the Americans were paying the Russians to keep their space program alive.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Hmmmm. I thought the Americans were paying the Russians to keep their space program alive.


Uhh no the Americans are paying the Russians to send supplies and people to the ISS which they cannot do right now, so actually its sort of the reverse. The reason the industry is growing so quickly now is because they are in the process of making thier space program FOR-Profit what a concept. NASA should take some notes, and adapt quickly to take advantage of this trend. The privatization of space!



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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Sending a manned mission they better work on getting their probes there in one piece first. Heres a list of their attempts at the Red planet.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oct. 10, 1960 1M No. 1 - Mars flyby 8K78/L1-4 Third stage failure at T+300 seconds

Oct. 14, 1960 1M No. 2 - Mars flyby 8K78/L1-5 Third stage failure at T+290 seconds

Oct. 24, 1962 2MV-4 No. 3 - Mars flyby 8K78/T103-15 Fourth stage failure in the low orbit

Nov. 1, 1962 2MV-4 No. 4 Mars-1 Mars flyby 8K78/T-103-16 Failed on its way to Mars

Nov. 4, 1962 2MV-3 No. 1 - Mars landing 8K78/T-103-17 Stranded in the low Earth orbit

Nov. 11, 1963 3MV-1A No. 2 Cosmos-21 Mars flyby 8K78/G103-18 Failed to leave low Earth orbit

Nov. 30, 1964 3MV-4A No. 2 Zond-2 Mars flyby 8K78 Failed on its way to Mars

July 18, 1965 3MV-4 No. 3 Zond-3 Mars flyby 8K78 Photographed the Moon

March 27, 1969 M-69 No. 240, 521 - Mars orbiter UR-500 Exploded at T+438 seconds.

April 2, 1969 M-69 - Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed at T+0.02s.; destroyed

May 10, 1971 M-71 No. 170 Cosmos-419 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed to leave Earth orbit

May 19, 1971 M-71 No. 171 Mars-2 Mars orbiter UR-500 Orbited Mars

May 28, 1971 M-71 No. 172 Mars-3 Mars orbiter/lander UR-500 Orbited Mars; Lander failed upon landing

July 21, 1973 M-73 No. 52 Mars-4 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed to orbit Mars

July 25, 1973 M-73 No. 53 Mars-5 Mars orbiter UR-500 Entered Mars orbit

Aug. 5, 1973 M-73 No. 50 Mars-6 Mars flyby/landing UR-500 Flew by Mars, landed capsule

Aug. 9, 1973 M-73 No. 51 Mars-7 Mars flyby/landing UR-500 Flew by Mars, capsule missed

July 7, 1988 1F No. 101 Phobos-1 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed on its way to Mars

July 12, 1988 1F No. 102 Phobos-2 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed on Mars orbit

Nov. 16, 1996 M1 No. 520 Mars-96 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed to leave Earth orbit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats not a good average their batting way below .300

About the ISS oh no wouldnt want the Russian to put up their fair share as a major member of the team. The US has been paying most of the bills for the thing and now that we need Russia to help out they want to charge us. They got a pair on them for that.



www.russianspaceweb.com...

[edit on 28-1-2005 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 04:14 PM
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About the ISS oh no wouldnt want the Russian to put up their fair share as a major member of the team. The US has been paying most of the bills for the thing and now that we need Russia to help out they want to charge us. They got a pair on them for that.


You gotta admit though its a rather smart and devious thing to do. They know NASA is on its last legs before it gets radically re-orginized. They are all about the allmighty dollar. As for the MARS batting average, NASA didn't do much better until recently(okay they did alot better but not anywhere near perfect). Landing stuff on a planet is tricky stuff as alot of people remember hearing from NASA after what 4 probes in a row failed? Remember the conspiracy theories?



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 04:25 PM
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They got a big pair of cojhones for charging but yes its rather devious. Im not sure if they like sending billionaires into space for 20 million a pop but I guess it pays the bills. Heck I would do it if I could afford to send 20 million.

Your right though about mars its tricky for everyone NASA included. Russia and NASA combined mars mission have like a 59% failure rate.I think the last two rovers brought up the whole average quite a bit


I do remember hearing some conspiracy theory about this Russian mission in particular.

March 27, 1969 M-69 No. 240, 521 - Mars orbiter UR-500 Exploded at T+438 seconds

Something about sabotage or aliens or something it was awhile ago



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Hmmmm. I thought the Americans were paying the Russians to keep their space program alive.


Most American's don't realise the success of the Russian Space Program or now what looks like the beginning of the recovery of the Russian economy because Russia is synonomous with economic failure and having to leech of America for space program funding. Also Americans are told NASA is no.1, but in terms of market share that isn't true. NASA has lost its way IMO and I hope this can be corrected by a growing Russian presence and also China's Space Program putting pressure on the politicians to correct this mistake.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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What are your thoughts on the new Russian space craft fleet "the clipper" ? Sounds very promising. They will be able to take 3 paying tourists into orbital flight for at least 10days at a time. And also their ambition for a mars mission by 2015/2020, very ambitious i know! But who knows? The way their space program is evolving and being incorporated into other nations...who knows....like the article said it could be a russians voice we first here coming back from mars. Maybe they have something to prove from loosing the race to the moon?



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by rufi0o
What are your thoughts on the new Russian space craft fleet "the clipper" ? Sounds very promising. They will be able to take 3 paying tourists into orbital flight for at least 10days at a time


Well its going to have to compete with Virgin Galactic, The trip is way longer if it is 10 days and that would make many people want to go up in that instead but can it compete with a $200,000 ticket price Virgin Galactic will start at.

I have to wonder about ten days though the Clipper seems very small. The last space tourist Russia sent payed 20 million but went to the ISS, Russia cant start turning the ISS into a space hotel with regular trips.

If they build their own space hotel it will cost awhole lot of money which would make the tickets way more.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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The Virgin Galactic crafts will only be able to achieve low earth orbit, the clippers are designed for orbital space, mainly to dock with the ISS, and beyond. (This is a big difference.) So im guessing whatever way the Russians, at the moment, will have the advantage until a new wave of orbital commercial spacecraft come about. The experience of sophisticated rocketry and orbital flight experience the Russians have, is also in their favour over the other space tourism organisations, and maybe even NASA. Only time will tell i guess, but the way things have been going over the last decade or so id put my money on the Russians. The Mir Space station was an astounding success and the efficiency of the technology of that time still beats NASA in some departments, such as the water/oxygen recycling systems, and the general simplicity of the station. I mean look what happened to skylab compared to Mir?
Also we’ll have to see how the new organisation of NASA will differ from todays, beaten and battered NASA. Maybe the Russians will once again make the Americans pull their socks up and get back to the enthusiasm once seen in the 60's/70's, that beat the Russians to the moon..



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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Im sure Russia can do this tech wise thats not the question but I have doubts they can make it a commercial success. The way their going to get this "Clipper" into space with large rockets is very expensive.

The current best launch prices for space travel are thousands of dollars a pound for these types of rockets very expensive. Even if with this new craft they cant cut the current ticket price to 1/4 of what it is now thats 5 million bucks a ticket to stay up in a tin can for a couple of days.

They cant have regular tourist flights to the ISS it was not made for that. If they want to make their own space hotel it would many billions of dollars and that would likely bring ticket prices back up to 20 million if not more.

At prices like that you going to get a few billionaires going up and thats it

[edit on 28-1-2005 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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rufi0o
The Virgin Galactic crafts will only be able to achieve low earth orbit, the clippers are designed for orbital space, mainly to dock with the ISS, and beyond. (This is a big difference.)

Actually the Virin Galactic ships can only get to sub-space, while the ISS is in LEO, and thats also where the clipper will be around.

Russia wont be on Mars by 2015, thats only ten years away, so thats impossible, I think 2020 is a bit of a reach.

The thing Russia has going is they can basically build rockets on an assembly line, so they are cheaper then american designs like Atlas and Delta.

Not only is Nasa preparing the Shuttle to launch in 3 1/2 months and planning the whole moon base thing, they are also very focused on the CEV (Crew Exploration Vehicle). So they are just as if not busier then the Russians.

I heard about the Clipper awhile back, is there any current info on it that they are still persueing the concept?


E_T

posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by drfunk
Most American's don't realise the success of the Russian Space Program or now what looks like the beginning of the recovery of the Russian economy because Russia is synonomous with economic failure and having to leech of America for space program funding.
Fact that some big corporations are making big profits doesn't mean their government has money for extensive space program, evading taxes/corruption is tradition in there and profits go to pockets of few (basically capitalism and communism tried there are same, both concentrate power and wealth to few) which are some reasons why their government doesn't have much money.
On commercial launch markets they have good share with their rockets being cheaper than most others, but again I would say it's wrong bet to think profits from that would go to funding of space program... or would be enough to fund it.

Russian space program has been practically near "bankruptcy" for long time. Remember how many interplanetary probes they have sent in last fifteen years. And they have never sent anything farther than Mars. Their only really successful series of probes has been Venera probes send to Venus and some of them are only probes which have landed and returned data from surface despite of hostile environment. (temp ~480 C and pressure ~90 bars, same as in 900 meters underwater)
But all those flight were made before 1985, like most of their Mars flights, after that their interplanetary flights have been rare.

And like tradition goes, they have managed to cause serious contamination of environment.
archive.wn.com...
Toxicity of some liquid fuels used in rockets is such that I would call "capable to detaching shell from bowling ball" as good metaphor.



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Well its going to have to compete with Virgin Galactic, The trip is way longer if it is 10 days and that would make many people want to go up in that instead but can it compete with a $200,000 ticket price Virgin Galactic will start at.

I have to wonder about ten days though the Clipper seems very small. The last space tourist Russia sent payed 20 million but went to the ISS, Russia cant start turning the ISS into a space hotel with regular trips.

If they build their own space hotel it will cost awhole lot of money which would make the tickets way more.


Don't worry if it competes with Branson, he'll deal with it accordingly.. he's good at that.. (I actually really like Branson).

Osiris



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 03:56 PM
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I like Branson too I hope he find success with Virgin Galactic.

Plus he does not have a military to fund with his profits.



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Sending a manned mission they better work on getting their probes there in one piece first. Heres a list of their attempts at the Red planet.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oct. 10, 1960 1M No. 1 - Mars flyby 8K78/L1-4 Third stage failure at T+300 seconds

Oct. 14, 1960 1M No. 2 - Mars flyby 8K78/L1-5 Third stage failure at T+290 seconds

Oct. 24, 1962 2MV-4 No. 3 - Mars flyby 8K78/T103-15 Fourth stage failure in the low orbit

Nov. 1, 1962 2MV-4 No. 4 Mars-1 Mars flyby 8K78/T-103-16 Failed on its way to Mars

Nov. 4, 1962 2MV-3 No. 1 - Mars landing 8K78/T-103-17 Stranded in the low Earth orbit

Nov. 11, 1963 3MV-1A No. 2 Cosmos-21 Mars flyby 8K78/G103-18 Failed to leave low Earth orbit

Nov. 30, 1964 3MV-4A No. 2 Zond-2 Mars flyby 8K78 Failed on its way to Mars

July 18, 1965 3MV-4 No. 3 Zond-3 Mars flyby 8K78 Photographed the Moon

March 27, 1969 M-69 No. 240, 521 - Mars orbiter UR-500 Exploded at T+438 seconds.

April 2, 1969 M-69 - Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed at T+0.02s.; destroyed

May 10, 1971 M-71 No. 170 Cosmos-419 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed to leave Earth orbit

May 19, 1971 M-71 No. 171 Mars-2 Mars orbiter UR-500 Orbited Mars

May 28, 1971 M-71 No. 172 Mars-3 Mars orbiter/lander UR-500 Orbited Mars; Lander failed upon landing

July 21, 1973 M-73 No. 52 Mars-4 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed to orbit Mars

July 25, 1973 M-73 No. 53 Mars-5 Mars orbiter UR-500 Entered Mars orbit

Aug. 5, 1973 M-73 No. 50 Mars-6 Mars flyby/landing UR-500 Flew by Mars, landed capsule

Aug. 9, 1973 M-73 No. 51 Mars-7 Mars flyby/landing UR-500 Flew by Mars, capsule missed

July 7, 1988 1F No. 101 Phobos-1 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed on its way to Mars

July 12, 1988 1F No. 102 Phobos-2 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed on Mars orbit

Nov. 16, 1996 M1 No. 520 Mars-96 Mars orbiter UR-500 Failed to leave Earth orbit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats not a good average their batting way below .300



Yeah but we are stubborn at the least.




About the ISS oh no wouldnt want the Russian to put up their fair share as a major member of the team. The US has been paying most of the bills for the thing and now that we need Russia to help out they want to charge us. They got a pair on them for that.



www.russianspaceweb.com...

[edit on 28-1-2005 by ShadowXIX]


US has lots of money. Russia is broke. Broke person is better negotiator always. ISS is floating piece of # serving no purpose beyond propaganda. Exploration is much more better for numerous reasons propaganda not the smallest of them. Ask anyone who care about ISS orbitting for... how many years now? Ask anywone what ISS is and they look at you funny. Now if people landed on Mars and sent back high video quality you would have people jumping up and down. No one gives crap about ISS.

"Wow it not amazing we float around Earth forever!?"

"Oh gosh no one has done that since 1957!!"

ISS can only make money from Tito guys and one other thing they should put big tansparant plastic bubble and film zero g porn, then they could make money. Beyond that no one care.



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 11:39 PM
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I think it is a good thing that the russians are going to make another push into space, it will ight a fire under NASA and we will have another space race, to either, put someone on mars, or put a base on the moon.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 06:03 AM
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Pictures of the engineering mock up to the klipper can be found here, note the possible winged variation in photo 24.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 07:28 AM
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Heres some more up to date infomation on the kliper



A full-scale model will be flown to France for the show between June 13 and 19, he said.


www.spacedaily.com...



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