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Why is it wrong for Russia to try and influence U.S. Elections?

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posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ketsuko

Well if Israel wants to say something about that, then they certainly are allowed to. But I'm not going to forgive another country's transgressions against us just because the US has meddled in other countries' politics.


And what hard proof has anyone offered you? Outside of some IPs and anonymous accusations and a report with a disclaimer, all we have are accusations. But, sure, I'm sure it's worth potentially provoking war with another nuclear power over at this stage, especially since none of those accusations, at any time, has claimed that anything having to do with actual vote tallies was in any way tampered with.




posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: The GUT

I love being talked down to by some dude I don't know. It's always fun when some arrogant jackass pretends to know what I think.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: TonyS

Man, you're not lost. You have the appropriate understanding that you can with the information that we have been provided. You're not jumping to conclusions, and that's a good thing.

The real issue has gotten lost in all of this: The corruption of the DNC (et al.).

I'm quite certain that this the designed result--claim a country who is supposedly our enemy hacked and influenced our elections, but since we don't really have concrete evidence or proof, the masses will argue about that instead of the corruption in our politics.

Same cooking method, just a different dish.

Thanks for reading the link.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Well at least you are being honest about your need to distract with a red herring.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I'd say the appeal to authority of EVERY intelligence agency saying it is true is rather compelling evidence alone. Not sure why they suddenly don't have any credibility on the matter.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I love being talked down to by some dude I don't know. It's always fun when some arrogant jackass pretends to know what I think.

Just going by your nonsensical statements---you spew them all over the place. Not the first time I've "talked down" to you. "Talking down," however, and I would proffer, is more along the lines of what you do. You've marginalized your own self on these boards. Much like the DNC marginalized their own-selves.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: flice
Seriously...... guys.... Im left wing as anyone, but you have to get #ing over this...!!

Repeating a false narrative over and over and over does not make it true, but it makes you look pathetic and sorry sore losers.

We lost... get over it for fs sake!

So to put this to rest: The russians didnt hack the dnc.... the russians didnt try to influence thr election......

The most russian influence in this election was John Podestas stock in the Russian energy company.


sorry pal...I'm not over it, who the hell do you think you are...trump has been an a**hole all his life, insulted people on TV with vulgar language and lies...and his speech at the RNC was an apocalyptic diatribe, insulting people of all types, and telling America how bad everything is.....even his "charities" he set up were fake...American banks wouldn't even give him a loan, because he has screwed them over countless times, he's not paid people that worked for him, preferring to sue them until they give up, a classic real estate developer tactic, he's screwed over countless investors in his businesses that went bankrupt....

and you people think he's going to help you, the poor, and middle class? that would be a first....you think a 70 year old egotist like trump is somehow going to miraculously change? it would be funny if it wasn't so damn serious...he's going to help himself, his family, and his wealthy pals....and the rest will be b***sh*t
this was the biggest "PUNK" of all time
edit on 4-1-2017 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ketsuko

I'd say the appeal to authority of EVERY intelligence agency saying it is true is rather compelling evidence alone. Not sure why they suddenly don't have any credibility on the matter.


For the same reason they suddenly didn't after Iraq? We can start there. What went wrong and why do you all of a sudden trust them now?



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Getting something wrong once doesn't mean they are wrong all the time. They are still the best authority on the matter around.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: neoholographic

Does the phrase "invasion of sovereignty" mean anything to you?


That doesn't come into it where governments are concerned, they do that stuff all the time.
Invasion of sovereignty is only a concept for us plebs to be nice citizens, with backup laws just for you....not for governments...that I think is what the OP is getting at.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: jimmyx


and you people think he's going to help you, the poor, and middle class?


I don't want him to help me. I don't want him to directly help anyone. I want him to create the conditions so that everyone can help THEMSELVES.

That is the difference. Handouts don't work long term. People need to be motivated to do what they need to in order to survive. That means that some people will be hungry, some will be cold, some will be poor.

However, if the conditions exist for that person to get a good job, or start a business of their own relatively easily, then they have the means to be fed, be warm, and earn an income.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

The US democracy was intended to be one based on the choices and opinion's of an EDUCATED electorate, a Well informed electorate hence freedom of speech (to prevent suppression of opinion and information).

Therefore it can be argued that ANY Secret's held by the US government from it's public immediately undermines it's actual democracy.

But to answer your point, if a nation interferes in the internal working's of another nations' government or public opinion there is nothing immediately wrong with that BUT if it is done with dishonest intent or malignant or controlling intent upon that other nation, not to help it by simply providing truth for example which under the US system would actually be a friendly action, then regardless of the system in place it would be both unethical and potentially harmful to the nation thus being interfered with.

Since an election is an internal affair also such a MALIGNANT intent if one indeed did exist could also be seen as a deliberate overstepping of the interfering nation's international place in the family of nation's but hey guess what EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD has done that at one time or another, the US more than most in recent years (Actually for well over a century now including in Britain were the US several time's worked to help to destroy or undermine our socialist party LABOUR in favour of our right wing party the TORY's).

IF a nation has interfered with HONEST intent however, not to harm but to inform and to help against a corrupt system by helping an honest side to win against a dishonest side simply by providing TRUTH then there is no argument any ethical person or nation can then place against that.

So your question should be was the Russian interference if proven done with honest intent or malignant intent?.


edit on 4-1-2017 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: Tman2135


I don't want him to help me. I don't want him to directly help anyone. I want him to create the conditions so that everyone can help THEMSELVES.

Loved that phrase.
No, no, no, no, no. Any conditions Trump...(I presume you mean he) will create, will be that he can help himself....literally. You might get a bone or one. Trump is up to his eyeballs in superdebt, he doesn't mind that as long as someone else pays for it, that's the way he works, a freeloader is what a freeloader must do, in this case, he's made fools of an awful lot of people. I can see why Putin loves him.

edit on 4-1-2017 by smurfy because: Text.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: The GUT

Sorry bro, but my haters fanclub is rather large these days. I don't bother to remember every angry internet poster biting at my coattails.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Tman2135


I don't want him to help me. I don't want him to directly help anyone. I want him to create the conditions so that everyone can help THEMSELVES.

Loved that phrase.
No, no, no, no, no. Any conditions Trump...(I presume you mean he) will create, will be that he can help himself....literally. You might get a bone or one. Trump is up to his eyeballs in superdebt, he doesn't mind that as long as someone else pays for it, that's the way he works, a freeloader is what a freeloader must do, in this case, he's made fools of an awful lot of people. I can see why Putin loves him.


Reducing Corporate Taxes to 15% will stimulate job growth and will also make it easier for people to start businesses of their own. Reduced regulation as he promised will also help this, as will returning education to the State and local level.

I don't understand how the Left thinks he is going to enrich himself off of this experience. He has far more to lose than gain. The President's salary is a pittance compared to what he has made in his own businesses.

I would argue that he was also more influential playing both sides of the field but now he has cut off about 50% of any potential connections by alienating liberals and progressives through a long and bitter Presidential campaign.

Can they also not see that only someone like a billionaire without prior political experience is the only one that could come in and shake up the deeply entrenched corruption and nepotism present in American politics? Do Progressives like the idea that you can only get ahead in politics by blackmail and favors?



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

Multinational corporations influence elections through the use of the media companies they own and lobbying on a daily basis. All of it influences politics. How is this any different to want Russia is now being accused of?

Look at all these companies that started in America, that now moved their headquarters to foreign soil for tax incentives, like Google. They are now considered foreign instigators.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Why are you bringing up Hillary Clinton? I don't recall this thread being about her. So it seems like this point is offtopic with the discussion we are having.


Now you're "sceptical" that a thread about the US elections where hillary clinton was one of 2 finalists and was heavily favoured to win has anything to do with hillary clinton?

edit on 4-1-2017 by ColaTesla because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: Tman2135

I don't understand how the Left thinks he is going to enrich himself off of this experience. He has far more to lose than gain. The President's salary is a pittance compared to what he has made in his own businesses.

Most of the rest you say is speculative, state taxes that vary wildly still need to be taken into account, hence a state preference, Trump, presumably can't interfere there.
What I continue to find curious is why you have the need to mention the "Left" when I am talking from my point of view about Trump. I'm not in the camp of either particularly, I would not have voted for Hillary either has I been in a position to do so..which I wasn't. Nor would I have been taken with most of the Republican politicians whos ethics are so often on the extremes of right wing, or whatever suits on the day, preferably the status quo. BTW, Trump is not taking his salary as President. As for what he has made, what do you know, you didn't say? How much then? How did he get it? who are his friends? what does he owe, and why should he owe? Does he behave like an oligarch/dictator outside of America, and if so, is it coming soon to the homeland? has he ever screwed ordinary Americans out of their savings in false pretence? used forced labour? all questions for you if you haven't looked. Last question, do you think I'm making it up?

One example might help, and no, I'm not involved in any way.


The whole video,

edit on 4-1-2017 by smurfy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: Natas0114
It's only ok when we do it... Duh... lol. People have no damn clue about the real world. They hide behind their screens, work behind their screens, and live vicariously through others. If you don't raise your kids, they don't grow up. Safe spaces behind computer screens are the same as a 4 year old holding his mommy's leg... If you really want a lesson in reality- join the Marines. I did, 4 tours later, I learned a lot about our influence. Since then I have moved rural and started my own business in traditional logging with horses and building homes with the lumber I produce. My kids will not be slack ass retards whining about things they don't work for, while playing god of the Internet. We hunt our meat with bow and arrow, and farm our own produce. It's hard, but we do just fine. And we're all pretty healthy from actually working, instead of typing our way through life. Sorry for the drift, but I believe that it's the modern mentality that allows people to think that we do no wrong because they Choose to hide from reality via computers.


You seem to have a lot to say about it via computer.
Although you don't want your children to be "slack ass retards whining about things they don't work for, while playing god on the Internet"





posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 04:36 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Don't we see another problem with this though? So for example WaPo had to walk back its story on the Vermont grid hack? CNN daily pounding away at the Russia hacked the DNC, which even Matt Taibi with Rolling Stone says the story is sketchy?

We all know that its highly doubtful that HRC lost because of the wikileaks dump. Truthfully, I think the Comey bauble did her more damage than that ever did.

What concerns me is the MSM seemingly pushing as fact matters not yet in sufficient evidence.




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