America, we need to talk - SERIOUSLY

May i ask to americans what do they think about this?
(also the rest, but specially people that lives in the States)

GIG HARBOR, WA. � With the end of the Iraq war, no more serious talk, right?
Au contraire. Elemental questions remain - of who we are and where we're going; questions that our "victory" in Iraq only heightens, especially as we presume to rebuild that country and reshape the world.

Who are we? In diplomacy, the world sees us as cowboys; in business, bare-knuckled capitalists; in culture, creators of cartoons and "cool" who'd naturally secure the Ministry of Oil in Baghdad but not the National Museum (whose destruction our Defense Secretary dismissed with "stuff happens").

And where are we going? As the "hyper-power," do we appropriately assert our might and ideas globally, as the Bush administration assumes? In fighting terrorism, will our policy of pre-emptive strike reduce or actually increase attacks? How many more civil liberties will we yield without debate?

Rest of the article:
www.csmonitor.com...



[Edited on 24-6-2003 by CoLD aNGeR]

but a few points...

1. What can we do about it? We are slaves to a two-party system, where nobody really wants Bush in office for another term, but the alternatives seem even more incompetent. Perhaps armed revolt? Sure, that would last about as long as a weekend.... Unfortunately, the public at large is uncaring, and an unwitting accomplice in this mess. Most simply are too busy to worry about it, and rely on the custom-tailored news snippets they see on the news (if they even watch it at all).

2. Increase attacks? So far, there hasn't been anything like 9/11, and that memory is fading quickly in the forefront of people's thoughts. Since there haven't been further attacks, trying to state that the administrations acts are going to increase chances, are going to fall on deaf ears... And then, with our patriotism, any further act would cause us to cry out for more blood and vengeance, and woe be to whoever is named target of that instance....

3. Who are we? I think most Americans know themselves just fine, and we don't identify ourselves by our current leaders. We see ourselves as members of the most powerful nation on Earth. Sure, we know we mess up the room from time to time...but most of us think that our collective hearts are usually in the right place. Unfortunately right now, that belief is being grossly abused by the powers that be....

it infects our people like a cancer...

why do we sit around and wait for the revolution to come to us? the government is corrupt. it's losing sight of freedom and looking more into the goal of control and extermination. i don't know about the level of trust i put into the idea of internment camps, but i'd rather belive a lie, then look away from the truth.

what can we do, to make people care? what can we do, to show them the light, and not be afraid. the government knows it's easy to scare a small group of people with small goals, but it's a lot harder to stop a group of people with knowledge of what they're doing, and the goal of ridding ourselves of the sin of corruption we have let breed itself into our society. why do we wink at this, why do we turn away? what can we do but live on in our pathetic meaningless exsistance? we can change everything if we would just get up and do it. motivate people to give a damn about government, realise what the laws they vote on actually mean.

people look at gov't issues and say damn them, then forget about it. our nation is forgetful, and doesn't take into account the effects of that which has passed. it's time to change that. who will rise?

I don't think I could have said it any better than you just did Gazrok...well said.

Those of us who are Americans will easily attest to the fact that 'we' are diffently not perfect.....and for many to keep saying that we are 'blinded', ignorant', 'thick skulled' and the other myrid of things we get called is far from the truth and quite unfounded. Sad thing is, many may continue to think that 'we' American's are as many continue to see us and comment thus.......very sad many feel and think that way.

Please understand that all American's do indeed 'identify' themselves very much differently from world opinion and thoughts.


regards
seekerof

9/11

"stuff happens..."

illmatic...

how unfortunate. that example is exactly what i'm talkin about. people have stopped giving a damn. what happens when the government accidently kills a group of protesters here in america, like the chinese did in tianmen square in china? will they give a damn at first, then a few months later, forget it? do we want that?

...from what Ill meant.

I take it as "stuff happens" meaning that yes, we lost lives & property on 9/11....but has anything that has been actioned by this government, all the time evoking 9/11.....really been warranted?

i noticed when i was typing that it came out a little off.

The problem as I see it is that you are kept in the dark about US plans to shape regions abroad.
Most of the negative posts on this board are shaped by confusion.

My major worry is that things are going to get worse before they get better because of the very nature of the war that we are fighting - not necessarily physically, but in our minds because of the confusion that is being created.

But look at it this way: Confusion is a weapon against the enemy. If you guys don't know what is going on, then you can be damn sure that neither does the enemy.

I would suggest holding fire for a while on the revolution talk. You could be fighting against your own freedom.

Originally posted by Leveller
The problem as I see it is that you are kept in the dark about US plans to shape regions abroad.
Most of the negative posts on this board are shaped by confusion.
What confusion? They said it loud to Clinton & signed their names to it before Bush was even placed in office. Their intentions have been crystal clear all along - control the water/control the oil/control the region & the world....can't be simpler www.sundayherald.com...

My major worry is that things are going to get worse before they get better because of the very nature of the war that we are fighting - not necessarily physically, but in our minds because of the confusion that is being created.

But look at it this way: Confusion is a weapon against the enemy. If you guys don't know what is going on, then you can be damn sure that neither does the enemy.
But these fundamental applications of Sun Tzu are also hoisted on the American people; actually, we are strategized against first because we are the base of power...the world comes second. We will be "attacked" again prior to the elections of 2004, fear mongering is crowd control; since talent, morality, intelligence and vision are lacking in this president........perpetual fear is a great substitute.
The confusion issue is something we agree upon - people need to understand that this USURPER will come to my city for a convention and practically stand on the bodies of fallen Americans in order to control a perception......THAT you should all no longer be confused by

I would suggest holding fire for a while on the revolution talk. You could be fighting against your own freedom. Freedom in the context of "Free Range Chicken", huh? Clucky runs the yard but stills ends up Deep Fried with bisquits......same result as the factory cousin......understand the propaganda: Terror from the White House is the only one that will dismantle our freedoms.

Sleep On, Sleep On, In The B43 Matrix

The common Republican in the street, the common Republican on the farm and the ranch, the common Republican working in the factory or in the service sector is not and will not benefit from the policies of the cabal in Washington D.C.

The common Republican is simply the latest dupe in the con of a one-party system masquerading as two. Politics is the art of persuasion and modern propaganda is the science of mass persuasion. The FCC has ruled so as to concentrate the access to the technology of mass persuasion.

The cabal has persuaded many citizens to follow a war policy for the most shoddy of reasons understanding that nothing brings a social group together like an external threat; and clearly understanding that the leader who challenges the threat - more or less successfully - will be viewed as the horse to bet on.

The cabal has persuaded many citizens that legislation and Executive Orders clearly and unabashedly aimed at dismantling the social services infrastructure of national and state government by wreaking national economic havoc is in their immediate best interest. The slop from the tax cut isn't going to return the economy to any form of health. Unfortunately too many people have too much debt and as interest rates begin to rise during the initial 'recovery' the debt will start to crush the common Republican.

The cabal is attempting to redraw congressional districts in Texas simply to increase the Republican majority in the U.S. House. Including such districts as one that will stretch in a slender strip from Austin to the Mexico border - some 280 miles.

The cabal has largely deleted the global warming assessment from its own EPA report on the state of the environment.

The cabal, largely populated by people who claim to think the government can not do anything right, trust it to not take innocent lives via the death penalty. B43 was the killingest governor in the history of Texas, and could well oversee more federal executions than any President in history.

The cabal has now destabilized Afghanistan and Iraq and has not evinced interest in committing the resources needed to rebuild those areas and give them a serious opportunity to develop anything other than an increased distrust and disdain for the U.S.

Please understand that B43 and the cabal are not here to take care of you and make your lives more comfortable and secure. Their interest is in using your energy to fuel the continued accumulation of power and material wealth by the cabal.

This is no conspiracy theory, simply a summary of facts available to all. Wake up or sleep on fitfully in the Matrix of B43!

As long as any Military member is involved in operations or peacekeeping in Iraq, the war isn't over. Not for me, and not to them. I don't think the war ever ended actually, just sort of lost press if you know what I mean. Politicains may "say" that a conflict is "over", but what they really mean is they lost interest and it no longer influences their feable minds. In other words, they were only in it for the short haul. Although I do see how it could be effective propaganda to sway the masses towards different localities for refreshed and often repeated strong arming.

Another thing, if we don't know whats going on, thats because of bad media. BAD MEDIA BAD! I firmly believe the less we know about something the more the enemy does. After all, chit happens to be in their homes.

"The common Republican in the street, the common Republican on the farm and the ranch, the common Republican working in the factory or in the service sector is not and will not benefit from the policies of the cabal in Washington D.C. "

That is one thing we agree on Bout Time.. The people in this country will never benefit from government only have varying degrees of punishment for success.


"The cabal has persuaded many citizens to follow a war policy for the most shoddy of reasons understanding that nothing brings a social group together like an external threat; and clearly understanding that the leader who challenges the threat - more or less successfully - will be viewed as the horse to bet on. "

I don't think this is a big secret in political strategy..



"The cabal has persuaded many citizens that legislation and Executive Orders clearly and unabashedly aimed at dismantling the social services infrastructure of national and state government by wreaking national economic havoc is in their immediate best interest. The slop from the tax cut isn't going to return the economy to any form of health. Unfortunately too many people have too much debt and as interest rates begin to rise during the initial 'recovery' the debt will start to crush the common Republican."

I don't know about that since B43 is set to sign the greatest increase in social entitlement programs in 40 years...something I'm not too happy about, personally.

"The cabal has largely deleted the global warming assessment from its own EPA report on the state of the environment. "

Finally!! Science ahead of politics for once. Global warming has been debunked and is only a political tool used by people with little understanding of what they even say....and yes, here's the link to the research to prove it..again..

www.cfa.harvard.edu...


"The cabal, largely populated by people who claim to think the government can not do anything right, trust it to not take innocent lives via the death penalty. B43 was the killingest governor in the history of Texas, and could well oversee more federal executions than any President in history. "

Not sure what I feel about the death penalty...just glad its not my job to condemn...but i don't think any governor gives out death penalties either. I think thats the job of the courts. I guess there are really heinous crimes that warrant it...I know breaking into my home gets an automatic death sentence if I catch ya.

"The cabal has now destabilized Afghanistan and Iraq and has not evinced interest in committing the resources needed to rebuild those areas and give them a serious opportunity to develop anything other than an increased distrust and disdain for the U.S. "

Good, then we feel the same way about each other..Here's a good idea, fly another plane into a building...that'll make us go run and hide. Timne for new strategy against the US..our appeasement days are over..I hope.

"Please understand that B43 and the cabal are not here to take care of you and make your lives more comfortable and secure. "

Its never been government's job to take care of me and make my life more comfortable. Thats my job and I'm not guaranteed a cushy life for doing no more than being born. Government's job is to guarantee that I keep the liberty to work and have access to the fruits of my labor..something that it hasn't done in my lifetime. Governments job isn't to take from those who put forth effort and distribute it to those who don't..but that seems to be its main premise now.

I agree with a lot of what you've posted here what I don't agree with is your inability to see the same policies set forth by the opposing party as well.

The fact that one party owns the three branches of government in the US makes your closing statement moot....I don't have a inability to see the ills with the other party's policy because it's not the one being implemented.

Isn't it? ..or are both parties playing us for chumps? I think in one of my post I likened them unto pro wrestlers talking up a good game for the crowd and then having a beer together after the match. Its all part of one big design to pit citizens against each other as a distraction from all the waste in Washington.


The Dems hate the republicans for getting a tax break and the republicans hate the dems for wanting entitlement programs. Its a catch 22. All we ever designed government to do was form and keep the military and make make the laws according to the constitution and now we have them in roles that they should be no where near.

Phoenix_Cross, the last time people thought as idiotic as you, 600,000 ended up in the dirt.

There is a good book for all you "anti-americans" even if you are only anti the slightest,

Called "Why the rest of the world hates the United States."

It goes through most of the socio-economic and foriegn policy reasons, and then accurately explains how the rest of the world has a distorted, often propogated view of the USA.

The USA the shinning light of the world, is cast as a shadow, because the dark powers of the world have switched the words light with dark and dark with light...but they can never switch the God-given definitions.

Only fools think america is truly "dark".

the fool or the fool who follows him.

so tell me, why are you here? is it to broaden your knowledge of the truth, you've been TOLD all of your life, or is it to come and defend that truth no matter what proof against it you see? if my thinking is idiotic, then so is the thinking of a lot of people here, cos i think the same way as they do, that there needs to be change. tell me, what is the purpose, of our lives today? for me, it is to be an obedient well disciplined student, so i can be indoctrinated in to the conformisy consumer culture, without problem, for those in college, it's to gain skill knowledge, a specialty that they can use to chase the mighty dollar, the system to which we are the slave.

what is the purpose of law but to control, when the control brings safety in front of freedom, then it is tyranny, that is what we inch closer to everydy, sorry for beating a dead horse, but the patriot acts. if say, a person with intent of abuse of power, and don't try to say we don't have crooked politicians, cops etc... here in america, we all know it, you do too, could easily, frame, and erase an opponent from being, or if not, make him suffer for a long time, for nothing. these powers could also be manipulated by fema and the military and other powers that we see as working for the good of the people.

the truth is, we need to know the truth.
to do this, there must be revolution. revolution is change. not always having to be a bloody coup d'etat.

we will not replace the current system with one just as corrupt. the world needs a strong unifying force, with a good intent, not a bad one, like so much bad garbage out there today, un, nato, eu, america, illuminati and stuff, they don't help, if they do, there is still suffering, worldwide.

where did 6oo,ooo people die because of the need for a revolution? in america anyway. that is my first goal, and will be the only one i see myself, able to even attempt in my lifetime

Yes...who's the fool?

The Fool is the man who denies the truth as lies, because he wishes he lived a different life.

Astro, no use arguing with B-T, he is an angry white liberal, they're the worst when it comes to trying to reason with.

Have you noticed something, Astro? These knee-jerk morons keep making sounds about how Bush and his administration is one big conservative conspiracy but I don't see any freakin' evidence! What I see is a barely centered republican trying to take the wind out of the democrats sails by adopting their policies.

On the other side of the coin, I see everyone being told that this is ultra conservatism (obviously not) and the democrats are behaving as ultra-extreme left-wing liberal commy panzies. Thirty years from now what you and I think is conservatism will not exist and ultra-whacko liberalism will almost be center. The constitution, by the way, will already have been retired as obsolete.

i'd like to know

"The Fool is the man who denies the truth as lies, because he wishes he lived a different life."

what is this supposed to mean? nothing to me. you need to explain yourself, your logic in thinking that i am wrong. all you've done is say i'm BS, you've no support for whatever arguement you have, analyze me, logically, and stick to a point, then i can admit that you have done something right. do this and elevate yourself above the level of newbie.