House GOP guts ethics panel

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The media is seriously pissing me off

Enough said about that I suppose

It's an interesting time in the News Media..

Division has fully infected much of them now..

And the ones trying to balance atop the razor thin patch of ground that the current divided populace affords them?

They are fighting between the instinct to call things objectively in a climate where objectivity is derided from the Highest Office in the land on down and offering the public the bias news they want.

The wannabe middle-of-the-road news outlets? The ones trying to cling to objectivity? They WANT to give Trump some legitimacy...they WANT to find cause to give him some respect and accolades...They WANT to give him credit for something...because that feels like normal coverage of a President...but good or bad, Trump is not a normal President.

I am going to go ahead and say it...The man Tweets repeatedly in knee-jerk fashion at 3 AM about a Miss USA contestant who spoke badly about him...but on this issue waits until a complete storm erupts over a 24 hour period before half-assedly weighing in on the issue with a tweet that still called the Independent Ethics Office "unfair"??

Ya...Many middle of the road media outlets gave him credit that he might not of deserved for Congress backing down...but I think they also were fishing for something good to report about him.

The other thing I have to get off my chest...His supporters retort to every policy decision, inane tweet and nomination during transition with the blanket "Hey..He is not President yet..wait until he is in office to be critical"...does that thinking not apply to when they want to give him Credit? If he can be assigned real world influence and credit for tweets that "appear" to be "good"...why must we ignore every other tweet and decision during transition that seems ridiculous or corrupt?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Indigo5

Yep. It's a lot easier to break things than create them or fix them, repealing the ACA without replacing it, for example.

this bit makes me a little sad and angry..

The dirty little secret about ACA is that most of the rural voters that tipped the election Trumps way are benefiting from it. Yes...the costs went up for those people, but nothing compared to the cost trajectory it was on in the private market before ACA...but I get it...that fact doesn't matter when it is STILL too damn expensive for them. The problem is that the things that Trump proposes and the GOP have already started to do will both reduce benefits for those people AND increase costs.

Here...meet a Trump Voter in Kentucky...

A woman who signs people up for Obamacare explains why she voted for Trump

THIS is what she doesn't like:

Over the years I've worked it, I felt at first it was more reasonable, but … with the premiums being so high, it's difficult for people to even go to the doctor.

When you come every time for open enrollment, it's like Russian roulette, because you don't know how much you're going to pay. It can go up two or three hundred dollars, and then, because it's not enough choices here, you cannot go to the hospital you used to trust in. You have to go somewhere different and hope that it's all the insurance that you purchased.

OK...fair..

THIS is what she expects Trump to do

Kathy Oller

The funny thing is, my husband said, “You know, he’s going to eliminate health care.” But he really can’t totally take it out, because everybody has to have health care. You can't go backward. But I think that he should look at it, come and walk the walk with us … or have his advisers come and see, like in these rural areas.

Come and see these people and really get down in the dirt with us and see what's going on. Not just make these rules up there.

Sarah Kliff

Did you hear him talking about repealing Obamacare in the campaign?

Kathy Oller

Yeah, he was going to get rid of it. But I found out with Trump … he says a lot of stuff. [laughs] I just think all politicians promise you everything and then we'll see.

It's like when you get married. “Oh honey, I won't do this. Oh honey, I won't do that.”

Sarah Kliff

Do you think around this area there's more people being helped by Obamacare or more people being hurt by it?

Kathy Oller

Helped.

I have worked with low-income people my whole life. Since 1981, so I've seen all the poverty in the area and I've seen a lot of abuse. There are some states that don't have Medicaid. And the sad thing is, they don't have it … and people die.

www.vox.com...

She is representive of many Trump voters...they wanted change...they voted for the idea of man who cared about their plight..AND they don't think he really will repeal the good parts of Obamacare...he promised them the sky and they believed him.

Meanwhile...
Today Pence and Paul Ryan outline how they will Immediately Repeal Obamacare..but of course leave pieces of it in place while they transition...
Mike Pence: GOP will keep promise to repeal Obamacare
www.cnn.com...

When prodded on what they will replace it with...the best answer was HSAs...which are ridiculous IMO...telling poor people in apalachia that they can save money for doctors bills tax free? So someone that actually has a job at minimum wage can save maybe 200 dollars a year? and the first time they have heart pain or pneumonia or whatever..they get a hospital bill for $3,000-$10,000? How the eff does a tax-free savings account help people living hand-to-mouth and barely getting by to begin with??

You can say that Trump and the GOP will bring down private medical costs??? HOW? They are for the free market...are they going to socialize medicine? The plan is the opposite...free doctors, insurers and hospitals to charge as they like.

People who can't afford to be hurt are going to get hurt with the repeal of Obamacare and those people were Trump voters...they asked for better, which was fair..but they are going to get worse..that is just the economics of it..Less coverage, that costs them more and hospitals that will try to bankrupt them and then simply stop serving poor rural areas when collections become untenable...that's economics, not politics.

a reply to: Indigo5

What a godawful mess our health care payment system is! What most people are not aware of is the Republican's hand, via Marco Rubio, in the ACA premium increase for this year. Rubio was proud as a peacock to do away with the ACA's "risk corridor", calling it a "bail out" (notice how Republicans love to twist words--been doing that for decades...thank you , Frank Luntz). Rubio's act BTW was another attempt to make Obamacare "fail". But by doing away with risk corridors, it forced insurance co's to further increase premiums beyond what they would have done with the risk corridors in place. Obamacare was further put in a bad light with voters.

A more in-depth explanation for increases (incl Rubio's "bailout" fallout)
AHIP Head Warns That ACA Premium Increases Are Coming

What will probably happen, and the Republicans know damn well it will, is that they will re-instate the "risk corridors", do away with the mandate, and make ins able to be sold across state lines, as if this last part will somehow magically lower rates for everyone. Actually, the last part is really more for their quasi-religious belief that the "free market" will magically cure every ill in America.

And, make no mistake, what the Republicans will end up with is Obamacare (which they have never wanted to "fix") but call it Trumpcare and sing its praises. America will still be addicted to insurance companies making money at taxpayers' expense. Those who didn't like Obamacare will end up not liking Trumpcare. And without mandates, governments (federal at first until Republicans slough off to states) would have to step in to spend money on those uninsured, as well as give more money to insurance companies to keep premiums down. Yep, Trumpcare, Republicans continuing to give OPM to insurance companies.

originally posted by: desert
a reply to: Indigo5



And, make no mistake, what the Republicans will end up with is Obamacare (which they have never wanted to "fix") but call it Trumpcare and sing its praises.

...ever see one of those packs of wolves take down a buffalo or a pack of hyena's take down a wildebeest?..One latches on ...then another..then another..

That is what the GOP did to Obamacare...which was originally intended as a Prototype for optimizing ...but not only did the GOP refuse to fix or tweak the prototype...they bled Obamacare and took bites out every chance they got.

BUT what you say above???..That would be the BEST outcome..Trumpcare!...but I also think it is hugely unlikely. It presumes that the GOP will work in unison to create something similar to Obamacare when much of their caucus is opposed to the ENTIRE CONCEPT of government being involved.

Ever see a pack of hyenas build a new wildebeest after they finally kill the one they were chasing? Me neither...It's not what they do.

a reply to: Indigo5

lol Great analogy!

Hmmmm, yes, the Koch Bros Freedom Caucus in Congress. Wanting to get rid of it pronto. The problem for the Reps, then, is do they follow the KFC or Trump supporters like you mention above who don't think it will be repealed. Interesting. Pack of wolves for sure.

Maybe Ryan's plan IS the closest thing to what the Freedom Caucus wants. Ryan wants to do with health care what he wants to do with Medicare and Social Security, hand out tax dollars to just go out and by insurance and annuities from insurance co's, with buyers paying the extra it costs for the policy they want. Using govt as a pass through of tax dollars to insurance companies. In the end, the idea is have "universal coverage" run by each state, rather than at the federal level. These people are beyond insane and cruel!

IMO, single payer for all! Our health is our business, not a commodity for businesses!

a reply to: Indigo5

Ya...Many middle of the road media outlets gave him credit that he might not of deserved for Congress backing down...but I think they also were fishing for something good to report about him.

This is from the link I posted yesterday:

Donald Trump has condemned House Republicans for voting to severely weaken an independent congressional ethics watchdog, the latest sign of his willingness to rebuke his own party.

Emphasis mine

This - is from the freaking Guardian. Honest to god - it's like they're not even trying. And if they won't try - why should any of those middle of the road rags that just regurgitate what they get off the wire try?

It's going to be a long 4 years :-)

a reply to: desert

...they just blame you either for not seeing it sooner, or, in Trump's case, for exposing it (and in his mind, you're the wrongdoer for exposing it). ..... no wonder he's on the side of Congress for gutting the office at some later date, just not now.

You know - ethics schmethics. There will be no scrutiny, no whistle blowing - no criticism. Unless it comes from them:

A little-noticed provision approved Tuesday by the U.S. House dramatically expands the powers of committee staff to haul private citizens and government officials to Capitol Hill to be questioned under oath -- without any lawmakers present, in some cases.

The Republican-authored change included in a House rules package marks what Democrats says is a disturbing trend of giving staff powers that have traditionally been reserved for members of Congress.

“After spending six years demonstrating their eagerness to spend taxpayer money on wasteful, politically motivated witch hunts, Republicans are giving themselves additional tools to do more of the same," said Representative Louise Slaughter of New York, the top Democrat on the House Rules Committee.

"Freely handing out the power to compel any American to appear, sit in a room, and answer staff’s invasive questions on the record -- without members even being required to be present -- is truly unprecedented, unwarranted, and offensive," she said.

So, all those lists they were wanting various departments and agencies to hand over? Yeah - well - our new fake democracy is getting ready to look into the people's ethics and activities big time. They are the one's who knock

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

This is most disturbing info! One more goosestep further to the right. ..... but that's ok, because it's not in my town, it's far off in Washington, and we can trust the Republicans to do what's right.... isn't that why we voted for them...right?.... I think I'm gonna be sick

our new fake democracy is getting ready to look into the people's ethics and activities big time

Ok, fake democracy. Yep. You got it! Fake POTUS, now fake democracy. And under the Koch Republicans now in control, we have a fake "United States of America".

"Freely handing out the power to compel any American to appear, sit in a room, and answer staff’s invasive questions on the record -- without members even being required to be present -- is truly unprecedented, unwarranted, and offensive,"

.... just like the old Nazi and Gestapo movies I watched as a kid.

We're screwed, We're so screwed.

a reply to: desert

The other was a stunt

Now a new kind of McCarthyism on deck

Only this time I guess any old staffer will do - your career and your future on the line - no legal eagles even necessary

Honestly - the right supports this? WTF?!

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

the right supports this? WTF?!

Found this online a bit ago.... as I wanted to have a concise meaning to Hannah Arendt's "the banality of evil".

"Banal evil is characterized by a belief that what one is doing is not evil, rather, what they are engaging in is a behavior that is, or has been, normalized by the society in which they reside. The prime example, and the one from which Arendt realized there could be banal evil, is the Nazi Adolf Eichmann."

Here are quotes from her book , Eichmann in Jerusalem

"... the only specific characteristic one could detect in his past as well as in his behavior during the trial and the preceding police examination was something entirely negative: it was not stupidity but a curious, quite authentic inability to think."

"When confronted with situations for which such routine procedures did not exist, he [Eichmann] was helpless, and his cliché-ridden language produced on the stand, as it had evidently done in his official life, a kind of macabre comedy. Clichés, stock phrases, adherence to conventional, standardized codes of expression and conduct have the socially recognized function of protecting us against reality, that is, against the claim on our thinking attention that all events and facts make by virtue of their existence."

a reply to: desert

"When confronted with situations for which such routine procedures did not exist, he [Eichmann] was helpless, and his cliché-ridden language produced on the stand, as it had evidently done in his official life, a kind of macabre comedy. Clichés, stock phrases, adherence to conventional, standardized codes of expression and conduct have the socially recognized function of protecting us against reality, that is, against the claim on our thinking attention that all events and facts make by virtue of their existence."

How many times have I seen this in a news story, or the comments section - or right here

Yesterday in the comment sections, several times, at a few different sites I saw variations of: You lost! Suck it libtard

Those came after pretty well thought out and not antagonistic posts. I thought about it all day

We are so screwed. I feel sick too

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: 3daysgone

originally posted by: conscientiousobserver
a reply to: 3daysgone

Also the only way I would need or want help from them. Is if they screw this country up even more than it already is. Which seems to be what will happen. Not that there would be any programs to help those like me out anyways. Ya know since the current establishment is against government help. Unless of course they need to be bailed out.

I doubt he could mess up this country more than it already is.

THAT should have been a Trump bumper sticker.

It represents well the thinking of many of his supporters...Meh..he couldn't make it worse!

I strongly believe that notion is going to be fully disproved in a matter of months.

Many a catastrophe has been preceded by the words "well..at least things can't get any worse than this"..

Yes...Yes they can...

That is your view. I prefer to think that he will do great things. I like to be happy. If that was a bumper sticker it would have been the truth.

Just think about this for a moment, and what it really means.

1. The Republicans decide to get rid of any oversight of themselves.
2. Trump sends a few tweets saying it isn't a good idea.
3. The Republicans instantly change their minds.

Read it how you wish but I'm going to be optimistic. First...Trump went after the right. Second...the right tucked tail and did as they were told. I'm assuming that even thought they may have "thought better of their decision", they know Trump speaks for a tight and tough group of Americans and the Republicans decided they wanted to keep their jobs.

Obama couldn't have done that even with millions of dollars worth of TV time and speeches. Not even with his own team...the left.

THAT is what I call PRESIDENTIAL!

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

The hot phones and emails from constituents came first. Trump was one voice among many.