Why is it so hard for Most Trump supporters to believe Russia tried to influence our election?

Russia didn't influence and hack the election because they liked Trump.

Putin sees Trump as the best chance they've ever had to bring about the end of America and it's influence in the world.

What I cannot believe is how this is not blatantly obvious to everyone.

why do you think its hard for us to believe ? I do however require proof.

originally posted by: goou111
As most of you know I am a Trump supporter but I have no doubt Russia did everything they could to try and influence our election and get Trump elected.

I have never seen so much imminent nuclear war talk at least since the 80s. Putin went so far as to tell all those reporters about how they have been making offensive weapons this whole time and how most Americans do not even realize the danger they are in.

He has the cities do nuclear war drills . So now that Trump is elected what happened to all the imminent war talk? I mean not a peep.

We have even gone so far as to accuse him of personally hacking the emails and retaliated by expelling people from the country and threatening sanctions.

And go figure no nuclear threats no war threats ,just we will wait and see what Trump does.

Why? Because he got what he wanted, Trump elected.

So why is it so hard for some of you to believe they hacked and or leaked the emails? It does not make a Trump presidency any less valid. Unless you can prove he colluded with Russia the whole time to pull it off.

People still voted on their own they were just more informed then the left wanted them to be.

I wish people would stop putting Putin the former colonel in the KGB on such a pedestal the guy is all ESTABLISHMENT.

You are not a Trump supporter, you are full of #. Anyone who thinks that Russia hacked anything or did anything except for propaganda is a shill and a moron. People throw around that CrowdStrike report like it is evidence but its not, its garbage

In the wake of the JAR-16-20296 dated December 29, 2016 about hacking and influencing the 2016 election, the need for real evidence is clear. The joint report adds nothing substantial to the October 7th report. It relies on proofs provided by the cyber security firm Crowdstrike that is clearly not on par with intelligence findings or evidence. At the top of the report is an “as is” statement showing this.

The difference between Dmitri Alperovitch’s claims which are reflected in JAR-1620296 and this article is that enough evidence is provided to warrant an investigation of specific parties for the DNC hacks. The real story involves specific anti-American actors that need to be investigated for real crimes.

For instance, the malware used was an out-dated version just waiting to be found. The one other interesting point is that the Russian malware called Grizzly Steppe is from Ukraine. How did Crowdstrike miss this when it is their business to know?

Later in this article you’ll meet and know a little more about the real “Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear.” The bar for identification set by Crowdstrike has never been able to get beyond words like probably, maybe, could be, or should be, in their attribution.

The article is lengthy because the facts need to be in one place. The bar Dimitri Alperovitch set for identifying the hackers involved is that low. Other than asking America to trust them, how many solid facts has Alperovitch provided to back his claim of Russian involvement?

The December 29th JAR adds a flowchart that shows how a basic phishing hack is performed. It doesn’t add anything significant beyond that. Noticeably, they use both their designation APT 28 and APT 29 as well as the Crowdstrike labels of Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear separately.

This is important because information from outside intelligence agencies has the value of rumor or unsubstantiated information at best according to policy. Usable intelligence needs to be free from partisan politics and verifiable. Intel agencies noted back in the early 90’s that every private actor in the information game was radically political.

The Hill.com article about Russia hacking the electric grid is a perfect example of why this intelligence is political and not taken seriously. If any proof of Russian involvement existed, the US would be at war. Under current laws of war, there would be no difference between an attack on the power grid or a missile strike.

According to the Hill “Private security firms provided more detailed forensic analysis, which the FBI and DHS said Thursday correlated with the IC’s findings.

“The Joint Analysis Report recognizes the excellent work undertaken by
security companies and private sector network owners and operators, and provides new indicators of compromise and malicious infrastructure
identified during the course of investigations and incident response,” read a statement. The report identities two Russian intelligence groups already named by CrowdStrike and other private security firms.”

In an interview with Washingtonsblog, William Binney, the creator of the NSA global surveillance system said “I expected to see the IP’s or other signatures of APT’s 28/29 [the entities which the U.S. claims hacked the Democratic emails] and where they were located and how/when the data got transferred to them from DNC/HRC [i.e. Hillary Rodham Clinton]/etc. They seem to have been following APT 28/29 since at least 2015, so, where are they?”

According to the latest Washington Post story, Crowdstrike’s CEO tied a group his company dubbed “Fancy Bear” to targeting Ukrainian artillery positions in Debaltsevo as well as across the Ukrainian civil war front for the past 2 years.

Alperovitch states in many articles the Ukrainians were using an Android app to target the self-proclaimed Republics positions and that hacking this app was what gave targeting data to the armies in Donbass instead.

Alperovitch first gained notice when he was the VP in charge of threat research with McAfee. Asked to comment on Alperovitch’s discovery of Russian hacks on Larry King, John McAfee had this to say. “Based on all of his experience, McAfee does not believe that Russians were behind the hacks on the Democratic National Committee (DNC), John Podesta’s emails, and the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign. As he told RT, “if it looks like the Russians did it, then I can guarantee you it was not the Russians.”

How does Crowdstrike’s story part with reality? First is the admission that it is probably, maybe, could be Russia hacking the DNC. “Intelligence agencies do not have specific intelligence showing officials in the Kremlin ‘directing’ the identified individuals to pass the Democratic emails to Wiki Leaks.”

The public evidence never goes beyond the word possibility. While never going beyond that or using facts, Crowdstrike insists that it’s Russia behind both Clinton’s and the Ukrainian losses. NBC carried the story because one of the partners in Crowdstrike is also a consultant for NBC.

According to NBC the story reads like this.”The company, Crowdstrike, was hired by the DNC to investigate the hack and issued a report publicly attributing it to Russian intelligence. One of Crowdstrike’s senior executives is Shawn Henry, a former senior FBI official who consults for NBC News.

“But the Russians used the app to turn the tables on their foes, Crowdstrike says. Once a Ukrainian soldier downloaded it on his Android phone, the Russians were able to eavesdrop on his communications and determine his position through geo-location.

In June, Crowdstrike went public with its findings that two separate Russian intelligence agencies had hacked the DNC. One, which Crowdstrike and other researchers call Cozy Bear, is believed to be linked to Russia’s CIA, known as the FSB. The other, known as Fancy Bear, is believed to be tied to the military

a reply to: sprockets2000

Meet the real Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear, part of the groups that are targeting Ukrainian positions for the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics. These people were so tech savvy they didn’t know the Ukrainian SBU (Ukrainian CIA/internal security) records every phone call and most internet use in Ukraine and Donbass. Donbass still uses Ukrainian phone and internet services.

These are normal people fighting back against private volunteer armies that target their homes, schools, and hospitals. The private volunteer armies like Pravy Sektor, Donbas Battalion, Azov, and Aidar have been cited for atrocities like child rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping. That just gets the ball rolling. These are a large swath of the Ukrainian servicemen Crowdstrike hopes to protect.

This story which just aired on Ukrainian news channel TCN shows the SBU questioning and arresting some of what they call an army of people in the Ukrainian-controlled areas. This news video shows people in Toretsk that provided targeting information to Donbass and people probably caught up in the net accidentally.

This is a civil war and people supporting either side are on both sides of the contact line. The SBU is awestruck because there are hundreds if not thousands of people helping to target the private volunteer armies supported by Ukrainian-Americans.

The first person they show on the video is a woman named Olga Lubochka. On the video her voice is heard from a recorded call saying ” In the field, on the left about 130 degrees. Aim and you’ll get it.” and then ” Oh, you hit it so hard you leveled it to the ground.””Am I going to get a medal for this?”

Other people caught up in the raid claim and probably were only calling friends they know. It’s common for people to call and tell their family about what is going on around them. This has been a staple in the war especially in outlying villages for people aligned with both sides of the conflict. A neighbor calls his friend and says “you won’t believe what I just saw.”

Another “fancy bear,” Alexander Schevchenko was caught calling friends and telling them that armored personnel carriers had just driven by.

Anatoli Prima, father of a DNR(Donetsk People’s Republic) soldier was asked to find out what unit was there and how many artillery pieces.

One woman providing information about fuel and incoming equipment has a husband fighting on the opposite side in Gorlovka. Gorlovka is a major city that’s been under artillery attack since 2014. For the past 2 1/2 years, she has remained in their home in Toretsk. According to the video, he’s vowed to take no prisoners when they rescue the area.

When asked why they hate Ukraine so much, one responded that they just wanted things to go back to what they were like before the coup in February 2014.

Another said they were born in the Soviet Union and didn’t like what was going on in Kiev. At the heart of this statement is the anti- OUN, antinationalist sentiment that most people living in Ukraine feel. The OUNb Bandera killed millions of people in Ukraine, including starving 3 million Soviet soldiers to death. The new Ukraine was founded in 1991 by OUN nationalists outside the fledgling country.

Is giving misleading or false information to 17 US Intelligence Agencies a crime? If it’s done by a cyber security industry leader like Crowdstrike should that be investigated? If unwinding the story from the “targeting of Ukrainian volunteers” side isn’t enough, we should look at this from the American perspective. How did the Russia influencing the election and DNC hack story evolve? Who’s involved? Does this pose conflicts of interest for Dmitri Alperovitch and Crowdstrike? And let’s face it, a hacking story isn’t complete until real hackers with the skills, motivation, and reason are exposed.

In the last article exploring the DNC hacks the focus was on the Chalupas. The article focused on Alexandra, Andrea, and Irene Chalupa. Their participation in the DNC hack story is what brought it to international attention in the first place.

According to journalist and DNC activist Andrea Chalupa on her Facebook page “After Chalupa sent the email to Miranda (which mentions that she had invited this reporter to a meeting with Ukrainian journalists in Washington), it triggered high-level concerns within the DNC, given the sensitive nature of her work. “That’s when we knew it was the Russians,” said a Democratic Party source who has been directly involved in the internal probe into the hacked emails. In order to stem the damage, the source said, “we told her to stop her research.”” July 25, 2016

If she was that close to the investigation Crowdstrike did how credible is she? Her sister Alexandra was named one of 16 people that shaped the election by Yahoo news. The DNC hacking investigation done by Crowdstrike concluded hacking was done by Russian actors based on the work done by Alexandra Chalupa? That is the conclusion of her sister Andrea Chalupa and obviously enough for Crowdstrike to make the Russian government connection. These words mirror Dimitri Alperovitch’s identification process in his interview with PBS Judy Woodruff.

How close is Dimitri Alperovitch to DNC officials? Close enough professionally he should have stepped down from an investigation that had the chance of throwing a presidential election in a new direction.

According to Esquire.com, Alperovitch has vetted speeches for Hillary Clinton about cyber security issues in the past. Because of his work on the Sony hack, President Barrack Obama personally called and said the measures taken were directly because of his work.

Still, this is not enough to show a conflict of interest. Alperovitch’s relationships with the Chalupas, radical groups, think tanks, Ukrainian propagandists, and Ukrainian state supported hackers do. When it all adds up and you see it together, we have found a Russian that tried hard to influence the outcome of the US presidential election in 2016.

In my previous article I showed in detail how the Chalupas fit into this. A brief bullet point review looks like this.

The Chalupas are not Democrat or Republican. They are OUNb. The OUNb worked hard to start a war between the USA and Russia for the last 50 years. According to the Ukrainian Weekly in a rare open statement of their existence in 2011, “Other statements were issued in the Ukrainian language by the leadership of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (B) and the International Conference in Support of Ukraine. The OUN (Bandera wing) called for”… What is OUNb Bandera? They follow the same political policy and platform that was developed in the 1930’s by Stepan Bandera. When these people go to a Holocaust memorial they are celebrating both the dead and the OUNb SS that killed There is no getting around this fact. The OUNb have no concept of democratic values and want an authoritarian fascism.
Alexandra Chalupa- According to the Ukrainian Weekly,… “The effort, known as Digital Miadan, gained momentum following the initial Twitter storms. Leading the effort were: Lara Chelak, Andrea Chalupa, Alexandra Chalupa, Constatin Kostenko and others.” The Digital Maidan was also how they raised money for the coup. This was how the Ukrainian emigres bought the bullets that were used on Euromaidan. Ukraine’s chubby nazi, Dima Yarosh stated openly he was taking money from the Ukrainian emigres during Euromaidan and Pravy Sektor

a reply to: sprockets2000

Only retarded people spout this much BS when Trump himself said Russia did it.

a reply to: goou111

He didn't say that, watch the press conference its easy to see what he was saying IE: everyone hacks us, the Russians, the Chinese you name it, he didn't put 2 and 2 together that the reporter thought he meant in that context, you people are so dense to believe this #, seriously dense. Believe what you want, I don't care, I just like to put the actual facts out there, not the contrived bull# that you guys are spouting, or go ahead and hit me with all those "muh facts".

a reply to: banjobrain

A bunch of COLD WAR businessmen and generals...YOU'RE so wrong your EYES are brown....
It 's not like the DNC wasn't corrupt beyond belief libertyblitzkrieg.com...
we CAUGHT them ,no it's all "WE have to attack Russia for catching her".
NOT a real priority at this time for anyone but SJWs, its practically a DOG WHISTLE now.
I am HIGHLY amused at HOW the left keeps treating Trump like the average politician,he goes for the people he thinks can do something,they FREALK when his cabinet changes his mind or doesn't agree.
But THE absolutely INEXCUSABLE fact that can't be reconciled is that they LISTENED to the campaign like the words were GOSPEL from a SALESMAN,WE KNEW he would change his MIND as the situation develops,however the Tea Party is winning as planned.
MOSTLY by NOT responding to ANY polls.

a reply to: sprockets2000

Why didn't you link to the original article?

WashingtonPost - Why Crowdstrike’s Russian Hacking Story Fell Apart- Say Hello to Fancy Bear

a reply to: goou111

He didn't, he couldn't, he just C&P'ed select paragraphs from a Washington Post OP. Can't even write his own rants

originally posted by: goou111
As most of you know I am a Trump supporter but I have no doubt Russia did everything they could to try and influence our election and get Trump elected.

I have never seen so much imminent nuclear war talk at least since the 80s. Putin went so far as to tell all those reporters about how they have been making offensive weapons this whole time and how most Americans do not even realize the danger they are in.

He has the cities do nuclear war drills . So now that Trump is elected what happened to all the imminent war talk? I mean not a peep.

We have even gone so far as to accuse him of personally hacking the emails and retaliated by expelling people from the country and threatening sanctions.

And go figure no nuclear threats no war threats ,just we will wait and see what Trump does.

Why? Because he got what he wanted, Trump elected.

So why is it so hard for some of you to believe they hacked and or leaked the emails? It does not make a Trump presidency any less valid. Unless you can prove he colluded with Russia the whole time to pull it off.

People still voted on their own they were just more informed then the left wanted them to be.

I wish people would stop putting Putin the former colonel in the KGB on such a pedestal the guy is all ESTABLISHMENT.

well now Trump has admitted it, but you see how they keep repeating the opposite despite that fact.

It's a cultural thing I think, and I think these people have been made crazy by ingesting so much fake, contrived and polarized propaganda for lack of a better word.

I mean, I think this how the public must have been when Hitler came in, completely brainwashed and unwilling to examine the news they receive, or the things they are lead to believe. In ten years they went from being TEA PARTY patriots, to Putin Loving pant lickers, the same people... They are still hate Iran, they hate Obummer for being to nice to Iran, but they fail to notice that their new boy Putin is about to arm Iran with 10 billion dollars worth of gear to deter the US. Do they care?? I don't know? A better questions seems to be can they comprehend what that means? Only god knows.

Instead of the Jew, in America, the Liberal has filled the same roll as in the days of old.

a reply to: goou111

Because I Doubt Very Much the Russians somehow Bribed 65 Million Americans to Vote for Mr. Trump instead of the Criminal Hillary Clinton . This Lame Ass Russian Election Tampering Conspiracy Theory is just Plain Dumb to Even consider with what has been put forth so far as Evidence by The Sore Losing Democrats and their Politicized U.S. Intelligence Agencies . The American People are Not Stupid.....

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: banjobrain

A bunch of COLD WAR businessmen and generals...YOU'RE so wrong your EYES are brown....
It 's not like the DNC wasn't corrupt beyond belief libertyblitzkrieg.com...
we CAUGHT them ,no it's all "WE have to attack Russia for catching her".
NOT a real priority at this time for anyone but SJWs, its practically a DOG WHISTLE now.
I am HIGHLY amused at HOW the left keeps treating Trump like the average politician,he goes for the people he thinks can do something,they FREALK when his cabinet changes his mind or doesn't agree.
But THE absolutely INEXCUSABLE fact that can't be reconciled is that they LISTENED to the campaign like the words were GOSPEL from a SALESMAN,WE KNEW he would change his MIND as the situation develops,however the Tea Party is winning as planned.
MOSTLY by NOT responding to ANY polls.

Well man, you guys have lost your bloody minds, I wish they was a way to get through to you thick heads. I mean it is like you guys went from being just big haters to being schizophrenic amnesiacs.

You guys are aligning with Putin because Trump is, Putin and Trump are aligning against NATO, who has been our most important strategic ally for decades and decades. So we are dropping NATO, to align with Putin, who is arming IRAN with 10 billion dollars worth of Anti US defense systems and armaments.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

And it gets better, now Putin is giving IRAN nuclear material, tons of it.

www.foxnews.com...

The crazy making thing is, conservatives spent years bashing Obama for being too nice to Iran because Iran is evil and Islamofascist...but now Trump is making great friends with Russia, the country who is gonna actually arm IRAN and give IRAN nuclear materials. Was the point of making the axis of evil and criticizing Obama for years just a show?

It is insane, what the hell is happening to you guys? I swear by god it seems like you all have been brainwashed.

Can you explain it?

originally posted by: goou111
a reply to: sprockets2000

Only retarded people spout this much BS when Trump himself said Russia did it.

At every turn it keeps getting crazier, doesn't it?

It's like they are taking all positions at once and abandoning all the stuff they used to believe, while defending it.

It is gonna make me crazy haha

a reply to: sprockets2000

It would have been more effective and honest of you if you just posted: "NAZIS from Kyiv did it!!!"

It really doesn't matter if they did or didn't. Fact is they didn't fabricate any evidence or the like.
They (if they did anything) simply released things the public had every right to know.

Also you really can't blame them if they did it considering how agressive Hilliary Clinton was being. She was a well known war hawk who set Russia in her sights. A war between Russia and the US benefits no one, yet Hillary was clearly in a position to make the people believe it would have been.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: goou111

Because I Doubt Very Much the Russians somehow Bribed 65 Million Americans to Vote for Mr. Trump instead of the Criminal Hillary Clinton . This Lame Ass Russian Election Tampering Conspiracy Theory is just Plain Dumb to Even consider with what has been put forth so far as Evidence by The Sore Losing Democrats and their Politicized U.S. Intelligence Agencies . The American People are Not Stupid.....

Americans aren't stupid but they have been polarized.

The audio goes bad towards the end of this discussion, but I think they make some valid points.

a reply to: banjobrain

It isn't US it's all YOU .
You have EMPLACED your opinion of what YOU are GUESSING we think and suggesting your perception is accurate.
It would be the case ...maybe in middle school.
I am a tad MORE complex than you grasp and an EXCELLENT commie fighter from Fulda to the DMZ,I think YOU require more history lessons.
We are the ONES WHO FOUGHT the cold war.
Not you.
Putin metastasized from that Fu#k up Obutthead's absence in leadership.
The TEA PARTY has thrown chaos at us all for the purposes of doing what the US govt. has been doing all over the world,divide and conquer,both the DNC AND the RNC for OUR versions of change.
God knows it isn't for a party,or any other simplistic concept like that.it's to stop this stupidity once and for all before we HAVE to start shooting...AGAIN.
If WE are displeased with Trump,we are STILL armed to the teeth,I'm not at ALL worried,we just scared the sh#t out of them twice.

a reply to: Aytakan

I'm glad you approve of foreign powers influencing the internal affairs of other nations when it serves their own interests. You must applaud America's efforts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Ukraine...?