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King Donald's Anti-Labor Secretary Begrudges "Overprotected" Workers' Breaks

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posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Those are children starving because they have no parents and no income.


Whaaaa? That photo is Breaker Boys in #9 Breaker, taken by Lewis Hine in 1911 for the National Child Labor Committee (NCLC). Those boys worked for the Hughestown Borough, Pa. Coal Company in Pittston, Pennsylvania.


I want everyone who wants a job to have a job, and to have the best job they can get.


Who doesn't? (apparently me, according to you!) I'm sure you want good things but it seems to me that you're stuck on the typical right-wing nonsense about deregulation resulting in benefits that trickle down to everyone despite the historical reality of free market capitalism unchecked by labor and environmental regulation and modern examples in third world sh#holes.




posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt

We need to get away from the idea that this is just about fast food workers. This is going to effect all labor laws. This guy is the new Sec. of Labor not the King of Fast Food Legislation. He's out new Labor Sec. What other regulations might he be inclined to cancel. Apparently he's been caught and fined for not being up to code on other issues as well in the past.

So stop thinking this is only people in fast food. It goes well beyond that.



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe


I also understand that this is the Mud Pit and is the OP's chosen arena to speak to. As such the OP likely understands that many of the posters will do exactly what you say and veer from topic and make personal attacks and whatnot. If you look at all of the OP's threads in the Mud Pit it is a common theme. He doesn't seem to shy away from it, nor try to prevent it from happening, so I gather it is an intended reaction to garner more views and reactions from those that oppose his views.


Pretty much.

I enjoy the relaxed moderation and in my experience Mud Pit threads do in fact garner more participation than the other political forums in general. I employ snark and the satire for both entertainment value and to elicit reactions (in the form of posts). Yes, it does lead to a greater percentage of off-topic posts and personal attacks but those posts contribute to promoting the thread which in turn means greater exposure.

That said, I don't post without a purpose and my ultimate goal is to discuss the topic. I wholeheartedly believe that this was a terrible appointment by President-elect Trump as I do view Puzder as strongly anti-labor and as such, an exceptionally poor fit for the position.




posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Exactly. The fast food bit was because he's in the fast food industry but it's only one example. He's also opposed to overtime laws for instance.



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 07:09 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: MagicCow

Did I send that to the wrong person???

Sorry.....

My bad......

Please pass that to the nearest Radical Trump Supporter.


Haha I love it when you liberals become so caught up in your triggered blood lust you attack anyone who is foolish enough to present a target for you. Like a school of piranha devouring your own...

This next 4 years is gonna be great!
Go ahead and pass that to this RTS(radical Trump supporter) big boy. I eat that crap for breakfast.

Big ol' bowl of liberal attitude!



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: JAY1980

Even better than the Liberals freaking out are all the wannabe tough guy Trumpies like you.

You guys, like your new daddy Trump are so thin skinned and reactionary it's going to be a pleasure watching all of you fail over the next four years. Bouncing off the walls with anger as you all cuck for Trump.



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Having run a business in the past, and having watched my children run their business, I'm quite aware of the impacts of the Dept. of Labor and how far their tentacles can reach. With each change of administration there is much ado and gnashing of teeth. I do not, however, believe that we are going to be putting grammar school children to work in the coal mines.

I'd venture to say that most minimum wage jobs are in the service industry---food and hospitality. And even in those industries, if one performs well, the wage is increased on a regular basis. My lawn service starts guys at minimum but by the time they prove they can operate a weed-eater efficiently, they've gained a raise. It's amazing to me how many of them can't even operate a weed-eater or lawn mower.



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 07:35 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

it's probably easier to justify taking breaks away from those young fast food workers than it is to justify taking them from someone who is spending eight or more hours a day lifting heavy 75 lb boxes and stacking them on pallets in a warehouse, or the person who is shoveling asphalt, or carting heavy shingles up a ladder to the rooftop.
just like it's easier to justify the low wages for those fast food workers and act like they are the only ones making those low wages when those low wages are prevalent across many industries and occupations, with more being added every year.



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 07:35 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: theantediluvian

If this is such an issue then why didn't Obama make it federal law in the last 8 years?



Because of the GOP controlled congress?



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: mOjOm

Having run a business in the past, and having watched my children run their business, I'm quite aware of the impacts of the Dept. of Labor and how far their tentacles can reach. With each change of administration there is much ado and gnashing of teeth. I do not, however, believe that we are going to be putting grammar school children to work in the coal mines.

I'd venture to say that most minimum wage jobs are in the service industry---food and hospitality. And even in those industries, if one performs well, the wage is increased on a regular basis. My lawn service starts guys at minimum but by the time they prove they can operate a weed-eater efficiently, they've gained a raise. It's amazing to me how many of them can't even operate a weed-eater or lawn mower.



Damn starting out Landscapers at min wage? # that #. I worked in landscaping for years. Min wage for a seasonal job like that would have been hell.



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt




I'd venture to say that most minimum wage jobs are in the service industry---food and hospitality.


and industrial, and retail, and childcare, and.....
if not minimum wage, then danged near close to it!!




My lawn service starts guys at minimum but by the time they prove they can operate a weed-eater efficiently, they've gained a raise. It's amazing to me how many of them can't even operate a weed-eater or lawn mower.


hope all these guys are kids, who have parents legally obligated to support them... since your minimum wage job most certainly won't!



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




Do you see it as a good thing that progress is being used as a threat against working class people by executives interested in squeezing out the last drops of profit before replacing workers with kiosks?

This is nothing new, the food industry is just slow to adapt apparently. Kiosks put 2 major US employers out of business in recent times, blockbuster and hollywood video. Even though hollywood video was bought out and merged to adapt, they still are nothing compared to what they once were. Kiosks in this sense literally eliminated nearly 100,000 jobs almost overnight.



At what point do we acknowledge the reality of our changing circumstances and work out a solution?

Got any ideas? The way tech is progressing there will soon only be a couple jobs required by humans. Society will inevitably HAVE to convert to a more socialistic structure or face collapse.



Perhaps you could argue the rationale beyond preserving a system that only works for a small percentage of the population while a larger percentage is getting left out in the cold?

nope, you'll actually find me quite "liberal" in that sense. I believe wages have stagnated amongst rising cost of living at such exponential rates it has literally caused the economic crisis in the US today. The common argument of "get an education/skill" is completely counterintuitive, corporate greed doesn't change when labor statistics change, they actually benefit from it. When there is more supply than demand, cost is lowered, so while everyone screams get an education, they have literally zero insight of the actual reality of everyone "getting educated". They are no longer in demand and therefore would become a minimum wage "skilled/educated" field simply due to an abundance of qualified individuals.



t's funny that a lot of Trump supporters voted for Trump

Still don't understand why you tend to lump me in that bunch. I didn't vote, and the only reason I rooted for Donny is because he ran against the anti-christ, and I'm not even religious.



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

Healthcare should never become "automated" and robotic. I have a very sick child, and sometimes the intuition of the parent combined with the years of experience of the doctor saves lives.

There is no replacement for human assessment and compassion in the healthcare field...

- AB



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 09:41 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Then I strongly suggest you check out the link I posted. That's the cover photo. Since you posted it without any attribution, I assumed it was from that site. Perhaps you should inform the owner.

As to jobs and deregulation: I do not oppose common-sense regulations for public safety and basic equality. I oppose regulations that serve no obvious purpose other than to increase the burden on evil companies.

Jobs come from companies; no one in their right mind has ever walked up to a homeless man and asked for a job. Wealthy people create jobs in order to create more wealth. If there is no profit, they have no reason to create jobs. Every regulation costs employers part of that profit, leaving less reason for them to employ people.

If you give people money, most will spend it. That will temporarily stimulate the economy, just like tax refunds will soon act as a temporary stimulus. But a few will invest the money in business, also temporarily stimulating the economy, but also producing jobs and more income for themselves. They will use that money to permanently stimulate the economy as well as temporarily. The trick is to give the money to the right people.

Big business won't use it to create more jobs. They already have their business fully mature and all the employees they need. Poor people won't use it to create jobs; they don't know how. Innovators, small businesses, and entrepreneurs will use it to create more jobs, because they have room to grow. These are the exact same people that are harmed the most by excessive regulation.

We have never tried true 'trickle-down' economics. Reagan wanted to, but Congress kept pushing regulations through and big business sucked up capital to pad their pockets. So when you start complaining about how it doesn't work, what you are actually saying is it doesn't work like you want it to. Trickle-down does indeed work, and always has when used properly.

What doesn't work is making a thing more expensive and burdensome, expecting folks to use more of it.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 10:45 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Healthcare should never become "automated" and robotic. I have a very sick child, and sometimes the intuition of the parent combined with the years of experience of the doctor saves lives.

There is no replacement for human assessment and compassion in the healthcare field...

- AB


I wasn't saying automate doctor patient relationships. Simply the surgery side of things is what I meant. Human interaction in Healthcare is often an emotional one. Doctors are taught for years to be indifferent to circumstances and treat the illness. Unfortunately for them, separating feelings from work is not possible.

I think surgical procedures can be automated with the doctor being the oversight and planning for surgery, much like a cad designer puts a program into a computer and the machine cuts the design.



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 11:42 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Now you're just being ridiculous. Progressives are calling for "non-progress in tech that is automating jobs" and pushing for "open borders?" That's news to me. Sure, there are some progressives who are for open borders just as there are some conservatives (including many libertarians) who are for open borders. Then there are others who believe that in the future, some degree of "open borders" policy might be a good idea.

Let's set all that aside though and examine the crux of your assertion — reducing population increases jobs.

Well gee. I guess we can thank our lucky stars for all those abortions then right? Oh, wait! That's not how economies work! Like other people, illegal aliens purchase goods and services from businesses that *gasp* employ people.

Hold on there Bernie Vasa Croe Clinton! I'm all for education and there's certainly nothing wrong with producing more engineers and the like but that's not really a solution to the problem of human labor being phased out by technology. Creating new industries certainly isn't a bad idea either but unless you're creating jobs that robots can't do and making a good or providing a service that other countries are unable to provide, the net result in the long term is no change.

That is in fact what many in business are doing and have been doing, including Puzder. No, it won't happen overnight but once it happens, it won't take long.

There are almost 4 million people working in fast food now. Leisure and hospitality in total? 15 million. Retail? Another 15 million plus. The jobs that have been lost to automation and outsourcing aren't coming back, at least not in any sort of numbers that are going to make much difference. It's weird that you basically seem to be agreeing with me on many points now but here's you in the post I was replying to:

If we all agree that progress is reducing the need for human labor, wtf are you going on about with "these are all things that the person themselves brought on themselves?" That's some kind of crazy conservative cognitive dissonance.

Just to reiterate: progress isn't a bad thing. I'm not anti-automation. In fact, I'm very much pro-automation. The problem is technological progress, it's that we're not progressing the employment model accordingly so instead of the benefits of that progress trickling down through society, the wealthy are simply making more money than ever while we're eliminating people from the workforce and supplementing employment deficits with social welfare.

I think our positions are probably closer than they appear but you seem intent on holding on to some outmoded conservative rhetoric that I interpret as blaming the unemployed/underemployed.


Ok...I finally have time to respond...long day.

Sure, there are some on both sides that think open borders are a great idea. I am coming at this from solely a "jobs available" point of view. There are a limited number of jobs in the US. We currently have 11 million+ illegal immigrants in our country that I would guess are working. If those 11 million were not here, then 11 million jobs open up to people that live here. While those jobs may not be glamorous, they obviously are not being automated and would be available to the unemployed.

Abortions have nothing to do with this, as there are not 11 million of them per year and obviously immigrants coming here are not infants and can work. There are around 650K abortions per year and assuming they weren't aborted would take 15+ years to be able to enter the work force....so I can discount that comment.

As far as creating more engineers and more robotics....well, if you look at tech over the years, it employs engineers (since this is specifically what you mention). If those engineers are creating designs for more robotics then obviously the companies creating the robotics will have to hire the people to build them. Robots can only do or build things once they are built themselves. Making a good or product that nobody else can produce is solely up to the US government and allowing outsourcing. Don't blame those that have the idea and look for the means to create it and do so because it is cost effective elsewhere, blame those that are pushing these companies to do so outside the US because of the cost being to high here. The corporations certainly didn't federally mandate anything regarding pay and breaks.

How are corporations blaming the workers and pushing them out? Corporate business is and always has been about cutting costs and creating efficiency. If human labor can't meet the standards that consumers want then the only logical way to move is either education/training or robotics.

Retail has been long gone since amazon came to market. That is a non-issue.

People have brought this on themselves because of the inability or lack of concern they have for the job they do. Progress tells us to cut the cancer out.

How do you see technological progress creating jobs? It began that way with building computers, but once people wanted more speed the circuits had to be smaller, therefore automation. Should we stop technological advances because human hands can't build what is wanted? This would be the end of consumerism and kill the entire model outright.

I also have an issue with whining about rich people in the industry. Do you think they are more educated or smarter than you? Do you think their thoughts on a daily basis are much different than yours? Maybe they think on a larger scale, but are the thoughts different? If you could make more money streamlining a process, as you have said you do with automation, would you do it? Or would you discard it and hope the business stays afloat to support the employees you have?

Fact, people are drawn to innovation and flock to the latest release of whatever tech. Do you stay a step behind and fail as a business simply because you believe the tech should stay the same. Case in point: Blackberry (RIM)....I used to use a BB daily for years....I can't recall in 2 years having seen ANYONE with a BB. Why? It is outdated. What happened? RIM decided they would continue to build on an outdated platform. Sure it was secure, but consumers don't care about that. They care about the newest tech available. BB's have gone the way of the clamshell and will never recover. This isn't about Trumps appointee making a statement, this is about how the world works. You can't hold back technological progress regardless of what you do. Hell, Puzder didn't design these systems or even come up with the idea....he simply sees it as he wave of the future....similar to how we saw cell phones. What do you think happened to all the landline phone manufacturers? I may have 3 friends who actually have a landline.

From PEW research:


Unauthorized immigrants are particularly concentrated in some subsets of each major industry. In 2012, they represented 24% of workers in the landscaping industry, 23% of those in private household employment, 20% of those in apparel manufacturing, 20% in crop production, 19% in the dry cleaning and laundry industry and 19% of those in building maintenance.


Source

That's a lot of jobs taken by people who are not US citizens. Yet we complain about not having enough jobs.



posted on Dec, 30 2016 @ 12:01 AM
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I think working class right wingers are too detached from reality to understand what the Trump presidency means for people who work, as opposed to the investor class.

People like Trump see higher wages as impacting profit, essentially the more workers earn, the less people like Trump
earn. This is the default position for right wing politicians in general which is why labor laws are attacked, unions are broken,
regulations are abandoned.


It seems like right wingers do not even really comprehend what the people they vote for, stand for. Of course Trump and his gang are gonna slash all the income they can from working people, that is how people like him, rich elite people get richer faster.



posted on Dec, 30 2016 @ 01:34 AM
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originally posted by: banjobrain
I think working class right wingers are too detached from reality to understand what the Trump presidency means for people who work, as opposed to the investor class.

People like Trump see higher wages as impacting profit, essentially the more workers earn, the less people like Trump
earn. This is the default position for right wing politicians in general which is why labor laws are attacked, unions are broken,
regulations are abandoned.


It seems like right wingers do not even really comprehend what the people they vote for, stand for. Of course Trump and his gang are gonna slash all the income they can from working people, that is how people like him, rich elite people get richer faster.


What I find hilarious is the people in California screaming about minimum wage while doing nothing about having the highest state income taxes in the country. Even with min wage moving to 15/hr. They are paying 8% state tax....that's on par with the highest state taxes for the highest income brackets in the US.

Hell those in CA right now making 10/hr are giving every dime they earned over last year 9/hrs to state taxes....next year they hit a new income bracket and more is given back. Nice play CA!



posted on Dec, 30 2016 @ 04:37 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

I don't know where you live but in our area, industrial, retail and childcare are not minimum wage jobs. Most of the guys hired by our lawn service begin at minimum wage and yes, they're young. If they can show up for work and learn to use a weed-eater, they get a raise. Did you not notice that?

Beginners in lots of job earn only minimum wage until they've proved that they are worth more to the business.

I don't know any responsible adults who are working at minimum wage jobs. Even the college kids I know who are working in food service are pulling down far more than minimum wage when they figure in their tips.



posted on Dec, 30 2016 @ 06:16 AM
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Many employees would indeed prefer to work and get paid instead of taking a mandatory UNPAID break


Then you give up your breaks and die young of a heart attack and don't try to enslave the rest of us. I usually work through mine, but if you don't mandate it then companies will never let anyone rest and it will be hell for the workers of this country, many of whom are already overworked.



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