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Help Me Understand Why Big City Residents Love Democrats.

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posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 03:36 PM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Edumakated

Nope the better schools are in the cities as cities tend to grow around places of higher education.
And the poor can get scholarships and financial aid. Stop.


That's a pretty easily dispelled myth.


While big-city districts are home to half of the nation’s dropout factories — high schools with graduation rates of 60 percent or lower as defined by Johns Hopkins researcher Robert Balfanz — one out of every five persistently failing high schools are located in the nation’s rural communities. The graduation rates for poor and minority students are also the same: Just 54 percent of black ninth-graders attending rural high schools graduated during the 2005-2006 school year, according to the Alliance for Excellent Education, just 8 points higher than the graduation rates for their counterparts in big-city schools.


Numbers Here





posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 03:44 PM
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originally posted by: SRPrime
No, it's more per capita. This means that given exactly the same sample sizes, there are more in urban environments. This topic has been beaten to death and proven a thousand times over on ATS. This isn't like there is a hypothetical 12% crime rate here in bradenton florida and there is a hypothetical 12% crime rate in new york city, and because new york has a higher population that 12% is bigger. Per capita means MORE people, a bigger percentage of the SAME population.


Sure dude



New York, NY | Orlando, FL | National
Murder: 7.3 | 22.6 | 7
Forcible Rape: 13.12 | 75.18 | 32.2
Robbery: 287.9 | 704.7 | 205.8
Aggravated Assault: 329.6 | 1180.7 | 336.5
Burglary: 271.1 1689 813.2
Larceny Theft: 1412.9 5682.2 2601.7
Vehicle Theft: 195.2 1077.4 501.5
Actual Reported Population and Crimes:
New York, NY Orlando, FL
Population: 8,165,000 216,819
Murder: 596 49
Forcible Rape: 1071 163
Robbery: 23511 1528
Aggravated Assault: 26908 2560
Burglary: 22137 3662
Larceny Theft: 115363 12320
Vehicle Theft: 15936 2336

CrimeRateComparison

Any other smoke you wanna try to blow up my arse?

I suppose if I check where there are mostly cows, the rates will be lower..and so there is where right wing government will work...in the forest.
Have at it.

Now..lets compare NYC to some places in arkansas, mississippi, etc...you know..the deep red areas...or not. I think the ship is sunk for your argument, no need to drop the nukes.

I know liberal policys aren't perfect, but if you are using NYC as a bannermark of failed policys, you are gonna be disappointed given its pretty chill there.
One day, 2 adults will come together and discuss a fusion of conservative independence mixed with a liberal safety net / ladder approach and find a perfect mix..
But until, we are stuck with babies from top politician right down to cultist partisan voters.

edit on 28-12-2016 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 05:19 PM
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I'm a city-dwelling liberal, so I will try to answer your question from many angles.

First, I've lived in the country and the city and I see the benefits to both. All-in-all, cities can be crowded and annoying, but they are also vastly more engaging and entertaining. City-dwellers have great disdain for a great deal of the cultural conservatism espoused by republicans. I enjoy living amongst a diverse set of neighbors, so the xenophobia experienced by many rural folk is incomprehensible to me and other city people. I can't find any moral value to the argument that America is and should be an Anglo and Christian dominated culture. I'm not religious (raised Catholic though), my husband is secular Jewish, most people I see on a regular basis are Mexican immigrants. They are excellent and lovely people. The idea that they are rapists and criminals is simply appalling.

I'm involved in Black Lives Matter (as a European-American), therefore the idea that it's a hate group is an idea that is firmly rooted in falsehood. So many valued members of my community are black. My son's best friend is black and his father in a BLM activist and a close friend who encourages white people as allies. My other close friend is a white mother who became involved with BLM after adopting two black sons and fears for their future in the criminal justice system.

Women's reproductive rights is of paramount importance. Access to birth control and abortion benefits all of society, full stop. If we can agree that humans will have sex regardless of policy, then we can probably also agree bringing unwanted children into the world does not do anyone any good. It's just good economic policy. Plus, it's difficult for women to have much agency over their lives if they must carry pregnancies to term.

Republicans do not want women to have agency over their lives, and that's just a fact. The rhetoric that feminism is damaging hurts all people. I've been a stay-at-home mother and a working mother. I do what is needed for my family.

Gay rights and marriage equality. My best friend is gender-queer and she is perfect as she is. Republicans spout hateful rhetoric that her "lifestyle" is wrong. Wrong for who? Why does anyone care? How does it affect anyone else?

I am a traditional wife to a man-- her marriage to a woman does not devalue that, on the contrary, she is a stronger member of society, therefore a more valuable co-worker, friend and neighbor.

On economic issues-- California (where I live) is the 6th largest economy in the world because of the state's investment in its citizens. It's no surprise Silicon Valley established itself in a region that invests heavily in education and human capital. Pat Brown created the University of California that has helped untold numbers jump class lines through education and training. My kids attend really quality city public schools.

My neighborhood is supremely safe and I feel much safer here than I did in, say, Alaska where I lived for some time. Taxes that support infrastructural investments such as healthcare, transit, education, etc. support people. California does not receive anywhere near the amount of public assistance as red states, such as Mississippi and Tenessee (#1 and 2 on the Welfare recipient list) because of investment in human capital.


edit on 28-12-2016 by Redwillow because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-12-2016 by Redwillow because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 05:23 PM
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I think it simply boils down to acceptance (or lack of it) of cultural diversity. People who live in big cities live and work alongside those which the right would demonize and therefore don't buy into the boogy-man tactics. It's hard to support people who want to demonize folks that you know and love. Even if you think they have better economic policy. People before dollars.



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: Syphon
I think it simply boils down to acceptance (or lack of it) of cultural diversity. People who live in big cities live and work alongside those which the right would demonize and therefore don't buy into the boogy-man tactics. It's hard to support people who want to demonize folks that you know and love. Even if you think they have better economic policy. People before dollars.


I have not seen evidence that conservatives have better economic policy. To put it simply, in 2007 I was wondering if I should cash out all my accounts and bury my money in my yard.

Obamacare is helping millions see a doctor

Social security and Medicare are things I'm pretty sure we want to keep unless we are actively encouraging the apocalypse.

70,000,000 baby boomers. Without health care. Uh... Okaaaay.



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
It appears to be a combination of factors.

  • Service.

    As some have already pointed out, it's nice to have someone else do the stuff you just don't want to do. If the lights go out, you can call an electrician; if the sink backs up, you can call a plumber; if the car makes a weird noise, you can call a mechanic; if you're hungry, you can call for pizza delivery. Every day, in every way, there is someone there to take care of things for you that you can't (or won't) do yourself.

    In the country, the wide spaces mean less specialization, because in a given area there are less people to need specific services. Therefore people tend to learn how to handle problems on their own. If the lights go out, you check the fuse box yourself. If the sink backs up, you crawl under the house and fix it yourself. If the car makes a weird noise, you park it under a shade tree, grab some tools, and pop the hood.

  • Ability.

    Service is also a vicious spiral. The more others do for you, the less you can do for yourself. And the less you can do for yourself, the more you tend to specialize in doing one thing only. The more you specialize, the more you need others around to do everything else for you. People over time lose the ability to survive without others and this leads to total dependence on others.

    In the country, most people are skilled to some degree in a wide range of trades.

  • Fear.

    When you know in your heart that you are incapable of surviving without assistance, you tend to fear being alone. Being without constant assurance of assistance is akin to being stranded on a deserted island... not good.

    In the country, we are used to handling life's challenges on our own. There are days when I never see a human who doesn't live here, and it doesn't bother me in the least. Socialization is a pleasure, not a necessity of life.

  • Over-developed sense of community.

    There seems to be a more hive-minded sense of community in the city versus in the country. In the city, it appears to me that the good of the community takes precedence over the good of individuals in the community. This, again, is a vicious spiral: as the community becomes primary even to the detriment of the individual, the individual must conform to societal expectations, which are to place the community before the individual.

    In the country, individualism is respected because the community is broader in area and less able to control individuals. That does not discount community, however, because people tend to enjoy being around others. Humans are inherently social animals. In some ways, this actually strengthens community ties because people gain respect for others when those others show strength and resilience. Community is a pleasure to be treasured, not a fact of life to be taken for granted.

The downside of country life is that it is hard. Even living a more modern lifestyle (not farming), the days are long and there's always something that needs fixing or something you want to improve. Of course, those long hard days over time result in a healthier lifestyle that makes one more capable of dealing with a harder life.

The downside of city life is pretty well spelled out in the OP: a loss of privacy/individualism, higher crime rates, more corruption, and a lack of intimacy. When faced with an impossible situation, people will do what it takes to survive. If that means stealing instead of working, and there are dozens of defenseless potential targets nearby who are essentially nameless and faceless, the temptation to steal becomes too great for some to resist. If there are only one or two potential targets nearby, who you know well and who are quite capable of defending themselves, the decision to steal becomes much more problematic.

And of course, since theft is bad for the community and community trumps individuals, more police and surveillance is required. That by definition equates to a loss of individual freedoms.

There is a huge divide between the two in the area of charity as well. Cities seem to have institutionalized charity. There is no need to give individually, because simply by paying taxes one is giving to the poor through social programs. In the country, charity is more of an individual decision, wherein people tend to help each other out, not as a duty, but as a compassionate act. We don't generally get to hear about millions of individual acts of charity and compassion, because it is easier for news outlets to report on single massive institutionalized charities.

The thing us in the country see, however, is that these massive charities do not replace individual acts, because institution does not give one the choice of whether to help or not, and are therefore not true charity and do not give the same feeling as watching someone's face light up when they receive help directly from a stranger. We also see that the extensive rules and regulations that are necessary under institutionalized charities invariably lead to situations where someone undeserving of help receives help while someone desperately needing and deserving of help does not. Admittedly, these situations are the exception rather than the rule, but they do exist.

All in all, it is a completely different lifestyle. What works to benefit one can be harmful to the other. And this is the danger of a powerful Federal government: that one lifestyle can be destructive to another. Outlawing hunting would have little effect on the lives of most city slickers, but it would remove a major source of enjoyment and actually decrease food supplies in the country. Outlawing guns as well, might be beneficial in the city (although I personally doubt it), but would make country folk subject to more crime, more susceptible to animal attacks, and threaten food supply. Raising gasoline taxes means little when one walks to work or school, but when the nearest town is 10 miles away it becomes an onerous detriment to the ability to thrive. Lax building codes are actually beneficial in the country where most have a good idea of how to build a structure safely, but in the city it would be disastrous to allow those with no such knowledge to build a dangerous structure next to neighbors. One flaw in human thinking is believing that everyone lives the same life.

Politically, this has led to the problems we see today. The United States was developed to allow everyone to live in peace as they see fit, but the lifestyles between city and country are so vast and so incompatible as to ensure division on almost all issues. The only real solution is to downsize the Federal government and return power to the states... or better yet, to the communities themselves.

...as was originally intended...

TheRedneck


It's called inter-dependence, not dependence. In a city, or even a small town, if you will, people contribute what they can and receive what they need (ideally). We are tribal creatures after all. People who live in isolation die sooner, it's true.

Anyway, I can order a pizza in the country too. And call a plumber. These things are called "economies."



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: Redwillow


It's called inter-dependence, not dependence.

Point well taken. I stand corrected.


Anyway, I can order a pizza in the country too. And call a plumber. These things are called "economies."

So can I, but I have to meet the delivery guy about 7 miles away. Plumbers charge extra to come this far out; a few won't come out here at all.

One thing I have noticed in my life is there are varying degrees of "country" and many people disagree on what is and is not "country." I mean no offense, but it does appear to me from your comments that you have never experienced country life such as I live in.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 07:22 PM
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Republicans' idea of freedom is polluting, shooting anything that moves, and giving advantages to millionaires. Not to mention hating liberals, minorities, gay people, immigrants, teachers and scientists.
How many city dwellers do you think that appeals to and what good would it do them?



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 09:36 PM
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People that have the ability to live around other people (lots of those people not like them) vote Democrat... no big surprise here.



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: Redwillow

A star for your eloquent post, RedWillow. It doesn't really address what I asked when starting this thread, but you did a good job of explaining why a lot of CALIFORNIANS love the Urban lifestyle.



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 09:48 PM
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originally posted by: CB328
Republicans' idea of freedom is shooting anything that moves, and giving advantages to millionaires. Not to mention hating liberals, minorities, gay people, immigrants, teachers and scientists.
How many city dwellers do you think that appeals to and what good would it do them?


You've been reading the FAKE NEWS again I see.. That's too bad.



posted on Dec, 28 2016 @ 11:46 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Your question as to why more African Americans didn't turn to Trump after Obama failed to reform struggling urban neighborhoods is a decent question. I think it boils down to the fact that the plight of African Americans is, in many ways, a systemic problem that won't be fixed by a single administration. Too much to go into in one post, but seven or eight generations of post-slavery survival in some places is not simply erased by policy. It takes time to see improvement as youngsters are hopefully granted education and opportunities.

I do think many black people don't appreciate the hatred the right has spewed on them regarding Black Lives Matter. Regular black people fear law enforcement and a candidate touting "law and order" is rightly terrifying for some people who feel targeted as criminals merely for the color of their skin.

The "welfare queen" trope is at an all time high and food stamps are a target again. If you are poor and urban, it seems silly to vote against a potential safety net. Urban housing has been the one thing that has at least kept a roof over some people's heads.

Lastly, Chicago has many problems that are multi-layered. Rahm Emanuel defied typical democrat/progressive ideology (for which he has faced ire) for standing up to teachers unions, closing down failing schools and encouraging charter expansion (school choice! Right outta Trump's mouth!). We will see if that will have any effect.

Los Angeles has seen a major demographic shift in its urban core. Watts and South L.A. (And Compton) are no longer Black communities--they are almost exclusively Latino.

Black Angelenos have moved to middle class neighborhoods like Ladera Heights or out of town to Palmdale for instance. It's worth noting that there has been some mobility over the past decade.



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Cement poisoning !!





posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: SaturnFX

LOL

Mostly all in Democrat voting pockets.



The high poverty areas are in Democrat voting pockets too.



7 of the top 10 food stamp states are red states...look up poverty stats, welfare stats, least amount of health coverage stats....do you people on the right do any research. is it too hard? or you don't trust actual factual government data?



posted on Dec, 29 2016 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: SaturnFX

LOL

Mostly all in Democrat voting pockets.



The high poverty areas are in Democrat voting pockets too.



7 of the top 10 food stamp states are red states...look up poverty stats, welfare stats, least amount of health coverage stats....do you people on the right do any research. is it too hard? or you don't trust actual factual government data?


Look at Mississippi for example.

Compare the poverty levels (most likely to receive benefits)

Now compare the Blue Democrat areas


Stunning isn't it.




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