The Truth Behind the Christ Myth: Ancient Origins of the Often Used Legend

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Raggedyman

Sorry
That would just be your opinion based on what you have learned.
I have read, studied and have a different opinion

Which would be just your opinion based on what you have learned.
Others have read, studied and all of that too. You aren't special.

Sorry

Well done buzz, I am nobody special,,you are right
But I do have a different opinion as I stated and as you so graciously pointed out..again, for no particular reason
and yes others have their own opinion, welcome to it they are

This is a forum, I was just giving my opinion as I stated and then you stated that I stated that, true that. it's what we do on forums. Give our opinions,

I think the op was wrong, he made out his her word was final, it isn't, there are many different opinions

Welcome to yours you are as well

And my opinion, no, it hasn't been discredited at all, seems it's just growing in evidence

While someone like you might not believe that, that's fine, that's your opinion and you can keep that, even spread it, preach it, carry on your hate crusade by all means

Change starts at your self, start somewhere, you need to

All that hate will just hurt you

a reply to: Raggedyman

No hate here. That's all coming from you. Just be aware that you are wrong, and no amount of denial or pretending that you aren't is going to change the fact that you are wrong, and willingly continuing in your wrongness. At your own expense. I actually feel sorry for you. It must suck.

a reply to: Raggedyman

This is a forum, I was just giving my opinion as I stated and then you stated that I stated that, true that. it's what we do on forums. Give our opinions,

And that's fine. You are entitled to YOUR OWN OPINIONS.

You are not entitled to YOUR OWN FACTS. For example, when you say I'm an atheist, or a hater, that is you talking out your ass with the same tired allegations you give to EVERYONE on here. Try the self-reflection thing, Rags. You really don't know all that much about how humans work.....or how brains or minds or souls work. Your 'contributions' are so very negative, ALL THE TIME!

There is nothing warm entertaining, accepting, charming, or even substantial in your posts EVER. You did all this "reading"? Do share the titles that we are all so glaringly lacking.....You did 'learning' that you think discredits common knowledge and advanced awareness of reality? Please do give us the names of the sites, authors (including their claims to be "experts" and "authorities" ---- and I mean BOTH - expert AND authority) reading list, and sources.


You can bleat "nuh-uh!" for ever and until the end of time, but that won't change ANYTHING about what's really real and true. Is it so impossible for you to just admit you really "don't know"? Because - take a deep breath - you really don't know.
And neither do I. So, I don't tell little kids or suffering older persons a pack of speculative fantasy stories that will just be shattered later.

a reply to: CB328


The major failing of this line of reasoning that similarity resulted from borrowing from a common ancient developed central strain like say a cultural DNA original. What research show is a real revelation to man and a counterfeit. And as we know the better the counterfeit the closer it look to the real deal. Beyond the counterfeit analogy is the sublimation of the counterfeit over the original overtime so that anything bearing the marks of original is confused with being a sublimation.

a reply to: Logarock

omgoodness. the mental gymnastics required to keep your storyline afloat are dazzingly complicated and ill-conceived.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Raggedyman

No hate here. That's all coming from you. Just be aware that you are wrong, and no amount of denial or pretending that you aren't is going to change the fact that you are wrong, and willingly continuing in your wrongness. At your own expense. I actually feel sorry for you. It must suck.

Change starts at yourself

No hate, every Christian thread you pile on the hate, you even said as much

And no, my opinion is valid to me, you don't get to decide what is right and wrong for me, you are not a sock puppet, what makes you think I am yours

You said evangelicals were bully's and haters and you do the same to them, your words, now suddenly you are a compassionate loving lady, hmmmm... Sometimes it's wise to check what you have said in the past and how it relates to what you say in the future

Change starts at home
And just a trick for you, those evangelicals you hate, you hate them because they act like you.
They are unreasonable, just like you

Remember, change starts at home

Anyway, pointless argument, please have the last word and you can be the winner

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Logarock

omgoodness. the mental gymnastics required to keep your storyline afloat are dazzingly complicated and ill-conceived.

Until you are prepared to move out of your reasons anything that requires mental anything will look like gymnastics.

a reply to: CB328

hiya. F/S.

The ability of some people to twist things into a justified knot of poor reasoning and worse ignorance is leaning ever more significantly toward abject madness.........
It is truly astounding. Truly.

Humanity is broken beyond repair now.
With this "fake news" craze, the usual suspects are let loose among the madding crowd, and now NOTHING will ever be considered legitimate.

Higher education, skilled interpretation of human behavior, sociological endeavors --- even ARCHAEOLOGY --- can't get through. It is a monster. A monster of our own making. There is no more third-party reliability.

We are not only 500 years ago, we are now somehow stuck in the cognitive trough of the 5-8 year old human. Magical thinking. Bullying. Cruelty and mocking.
In school, in the marching band (we won international competitions, we were that good).....our conductor always insisted to us as a team/a band: "you are only as good as your weakest member!"

Were that [=If only] today's secondary ed was in general that inspirational, and included the liberal arts and sciences. But alas, no more.

But hell, how many people on this board will be able to read this post and appreciate its lyricism, vocabulary, and euphemistic nuance?

I found this one rather interesting..



to me, there is no question that much of the christmas holiday traditions are the remnants of the ancient winter solstice celebrations from the northern european cultures.
but I imagine the ancients the world over also had remnants of their own solstice celebrations also that would mark the changes of their own seasons, designate and help determine their own growing seasons.
I also believe that bible instructed the desert nomads we now call Isreal not to observe them...
but, christianity found those celebrations as a hindrance to the conversion of the europeans so they adopted them, transformed them into something relevant to the religion.. so now even in the southern hemisphere, where dec marks the summer soltice, they celebrate the birth of their sun god??
what if there was something majical about those solstice ceremonies, something that connected them to the land and the stars, what if it was more than just an aid to help them in timing the seasons? has half the world lost something by this?
do australians celebrate christmas in the same manner as the northern europeans? do they bring an evergreen tree into their home when they have a forest of green trees to choose from? do the people in the warm desert climates who probably don't have chimneys for santa to climb down from tell such stories?? wtf??

originally posted by: dawnstar
I found this one rather interesting..

to me, there is no question that much of the christmas holiday traditions are the remnants of the ancient winter solstice celebrations from the northern european cultures.
but I imagine the ancients the world over also had remnants of their own solstice celebrations also that would mark the changes of their own seasons, designate and help determine their own growing seasons.
I also believe that bible instructed the desert nomads we now call Isreal not to observe them...
but, christianity found those celebrations as a hindrance to the conversion of the europeans so they adopted them, transformed them into something relevant to the religion.. so now even in the southern hemisphere, where dec marks the summer soltice, they celebrate the birth of their sun god??
what if there was something majical about those solstice ceremonies, something that connected them to the land and the stars, what if it was more than just an aid to help them in timing the seasons? has half the world lost something by this?
do australians celebrate christmas in the same manner as the northern europeans? do they bring an evergreen tree into their home when they have a forest of green trees to choose from? do the people in the warm desert climates who probably don't have chimneys for santa to climb down from tell such stories?? wtf??

Most Australians have a European heritage, so yes, plastic trees and we leave doors open for Santa, not much different from those in the northern hemisphere, cept we spend time picnicking at the beach and many people eat seafood and salads for Christmas lunch

Yes, the clip is partialy true, it's old news, nothing new
The Catholics adapted Christianity to paganism or vice versa.
There is lots of paganism in Catholicism, maybe paganism has overtaken Christianity in the Catholic church

But it's not exactly accurate

a reply to: Raggedyman

did the natives have any special celebration to celebrate the solstice? just wondering, we never hear about what the other celebrations that might have been around, and I kind of find it hard to believe that only the northern europeans held the solstices as special.

a reply to: CB328

I am sure that Jesus was not born on Dec 25th, More likely sometime between the second week of our September and the second week of our October.

Even if Pagan things have poisoned or infiltrated Christian traditions, the good news of the Gospel is still as valid and TRUE today as it was 2 millennia ago. For those willing to first believe. Nothing else matters all that much.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Raggedyman

did the natives have any special celebration to celebrate the solstice? just wondering, we never hear about what the other celebrations that might have been around, and I kind of find it hard to believe that only the northern europeans held the solstices as special.

Nope
The Australian aboriginals didn't have any recorded seasonal celebrations
No written languages, they were animists

a reply to: chr0naut
The Romans certainly perverted it into some sort of secret society, but it nonetheless predated Christianity. The fact that Artaxerxes II was the first (if I'm not mistaken) king to praise by name a god other than Ahura Mazda proves that Mithra's prominence was rising. If that weren't enough, Mitra is invoked in Hittite treaties from before 1000BC (related, though not necessarily identical, as Mitra could also be a word for "friend").

The sacrificial bull depictions of Mithra make it quite clear that he is a zodiacal allegory, himself being the sun:

Which also explains why he was depicted as a sun cross. Will Durant claimed that Constantine's soldiers were more willing to accept his claimed vision because they already held the cross as a divine symbol, being largely Mithraists.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
Even if Pagan things have poisoned or infiltrated Christian traditions, the good news of the Gospel is still as valid and TRUE today as it was 2 millennia ago. For those willing to first believe. Nothing else matters all that much.

It was the other way round: Pagans were happy with their beliefs but Christianity, with their gospels, forced them into adopting a new religion by the sword. After conversion Pagans still carried on with their usual festivities, such as celebrating Yule (changed to Christmas). The Christian church, to eliminate such rival beliefs, then added Jesus to all the Pagans celebrations, and they slowly became a Christian thing.

So see, it was the other way round: Christian things poisoned and infiltrated the original European Pagan traditions.

originally posted by: dawnstar
did the natives have any special celebration to celebrate the solstice? just wondering, we never hear about what the other celebrations that might have been around, and I kind of find it hard to believe that only the northern europeans held the solstices as special.

Natives in Central and South America used to celebrate the solstices too. In June (Winter solstice for them) the local Andeans used to pray to Inti, the Sun God, as they feared he would disappear forever. The celebration was called Inti Raymi, the Sun Festival.

If you visit Argentina, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia in June, you will still find locals celebrating Inti Raymi. Luckily these original traditions were passed on from generation to generation despite the genocide the Christian church committed amongst their people.

originally posted by: CB328
Here's more information about the Pagan origins of religious traditions that were later incorporated into Christianity. I was well aware of the Pagan influences in Christianity, but I wasn't familiar with this Green man, who seems to be the basis of it all. Just like religions build churches on temples of older religions, Christianity is full of pagan ideas and symbolism.

www.ancient-origins.net...

The green man is an ill translated Prophet in Islam I actually don't know much about.

It is not a proper translation of the Arabic and I don't know its connection to Christianity, I'll look into it.

Pagan origins is misleading. Jewish origins with pagan elements incorporated later, much later.

Paganism is nature worship, unless you literally deliberately worship the sun or moon or earth you are not pagan.

Making a man God is pagan though, and that happened late in Christianity so it's not its origins.

Polytheist is more accurate.

a reply to: SargonThrall

Mithra is a sun god that was popular in Persia.

Originally just a kind of yazata or angel in Mazdaism that was incorporated from India Mithra is older (Mitra) than even Zoroastrianism.

And that's old. Definitely older than Judaism or Christianity.

Someone said that Zoroastrian literature doesn't say much about Mithra, that is because he was a minor character that Zoroaster was against worshipping.

Mithra comes from Mitra in India and is not Zoroastrian or Persian in origin like they said, he goes back to pre Persian-Indian war times.

And not really Persian or important in Zoroastrianism.

More among the Magian tribes.