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Obama Administration Finalizes Social Security Gun Ban

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posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 06:15 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
Unless my reading of the actual information and not the opinion piece is totally wrong, unless you're receiving SS benefits because of a mental deficiency, you can still get a gun.

It's not, as the OP implies today and implied before, as simple as "if you get a SS check you can't get a gun." Being adjudicated as mentally deficient is already a prohibiting instance for purchasing a firearm.


Not exactly. By virtue of getting the money, the option now exists to appoint a fiduciary - and this is what renders you ineligible for buying a gun.

That in itself isn't quite so bad. The issue is that fiduciaries can be appointed in situations that have no real reflection on somebody's mental state. Disability makes it difficult for you to get to the bank? Fiduciary appointed. Let your spouse handle the household bills? Fiduciary appointed. Once appointed, you're screwed unless you have the money for a lawyer to fight it. Of course, you no longer have control of that money...

There is an existing legal mechanism for finding somebody to be mentally unfit. The fiduciary appointment system, however, lacks the kind of rigor and oversight of a judicial process.

It might help to know that fiduciaries are allowed to claim their fee from the money that you are supposed to receive. It's a good business to be in, and it gets better as the number of people you need to manage increases. Read into that what you will.




posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 06:23 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
Hey that is the risk of living off the goverment.

You want to suckle from the teet of social welfare you have to be subject to its rules.


Dont want to follow the rules? Get your fat lazy arse off welfare and get a job!


This disproportionately targets those under the remit of the VA - ie, disabled soldiers. They are the ones at most risk of fiduciary appointments.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 07:55 AM
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originally posted by: JustTheFacts

originally posted by: mamabeth

originally posted by: JustTheFacts
a reply to: xuenchen

This looks and feels like FAKE NEWS to me.
Please post some sources.
I would like to follow this in the real world.



First, you will have to define what is considered "real news" to you!


Let's start with the sources !
Confirm they are credible - such as House or Senate Bill #'s that can be tracked.
Backers of the proposal, etc.
Sources, sources, sources - not just some guy making a non-sources post on ATS.
Do you know what .gov is?



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 08:02 AM
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originally posted by: GreyScale
a reply to: xuenchen

Progressives always push as far as they can, then back off and take a little. Just a bit! Then make it a law and keep on pushing the boundaries.

Look at the last 20 years. We went from it being OK for a Vet to own a gun to deciding that a lot of them have PTSD (mental disorder of course) so although it was OK for them to have a full auto when in the service, we can't trust them with a handgun now because (mental disorder).

I was diagnosed with PTSD a full 20 years after my discharge, by a doctor I never met at a VA hospital I'd never been to. It took me 10 years to sort out. Now I'm probably a domestic terrorist for fighting it.

Now it's just a little more push... just another mental disorder.

Soon it will just expand to include just a little more mental disorders, as defined by the SPLC or someone.

You know... like when they said that if you were Native American, a Vet or a Ron Paul supporter you were a domestic terrorist.

Slow and steady wins their race.

What's worse the reason they would target senior veterans because they are the ones most likely to believe in defending our country and its citizens. This admin is determined to bring in socialism as much as possible. The rhinos have been mostly unhelpful in rolling it back. This just makes me sick to
My stomach
edit on 26-12-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 08:34 AM
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originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Unless my reading of the actual information and not the opinion piece is totally wrong, unless you're receiving SS benefits because of a mental deficiency, you can still get a gun.

It's not, as the OP implies today and implied before, as simple as "if you get a SS check you can't get a gun." Being adjudicated as mentally deficient is already a prohibiting instance for purchasing a firearm.


Not exactly. By virtue of getting the money, the option now exists to appoint a fiduciary - and this is what renders you ineligible for buying a gun.

That in itself isn't quite so bad. The issue is that fiduciaries can be appointed in situations that have no real reflection on somebody's mental state. Disability makes it difficult for you to get to the bank? Fiduciary appointed. Let your spouse handle the household bills? Fiduciary appointed. Once appointed, you're screwed unless you have the money for a lawyer to fight it. Of course, you no longer have control of that money...

There is an existing legal mechanism for finding somebody to be mentally unfit. The fiduciary appointment system, however, lacks the kind of rigor and oversight of a judicial process.

It might help to know that fiduciaries are allowed to claim their fee from the money that you are supposed to receive. It's a good business to be in, and it gets better as the number of people you need to manage increases. Read into that what you will.


Not exactly.

It may end up with you being adjudicated mentally deficient.

I can't imagine why you and the OP seem to keep ignoring that word.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 08:35 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: xuenchen
investmentwatchblog.com...


In a recent CNN interview, Obama admitted that his failure to enact gun control was the “one area where I feel that I’ve been most frustrated.” As he should be frustrated. Gun Owners of America Communications Director Erich Pratt is calling on the:
freedomoutpost.com...…un-treaty/




Yup.



So weird how you only ever reappear in your threads to agree with somebody who's agreed with you, and never seem to reappear to actually defend your asinine OPs.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 09:21 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: xuenchen
investmentwatchblog.com...


In a recent CNN interview, Obama admitted that his failure to enact gun control was the “one area where I feel that I’ve been most frustrated.” As he should be frustrated. Gun Owners of America Communications Director Erich Pratt is calling on the:
freedomoutpost.com...…un-treaty/




Yup.



So weird how you only ever reappear in your threads to agree with somebody who's agreed with you, and never seem to reappear to actually defend your asinine OPs.


I don't want to get accused of goaltending.




posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: xuenchen
investmentwatchblog.com...


In a recent CNN interview, Obama admitted that his failure to enact gun control was the “one area where I feel that I’ve been most frustrated.” As he should be frustrated. Gun Owners of America Communications Director Erich Pratt is calling on the:
freedomoutpost.com...…un-treaty/




Yup.



So weird how you only ever reappear in your threads to agree with somebody who's agreed with you, and never seem to reappear to actually defend your asinine OPs.


I don't want to get accused of goaltending.




Defending your claims is goaltending? My what a twisted idea of debate you have.




posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: xuenchen

What do politicians have to worry about? They send out the police to enforce their unconstitutional laws.






Those pictures make me laugh. Like you would actually shoot at law enforcement. It's not rambo. You'd just come back onto ats and rant about it.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
Unless my reading of the actual information and not the opinion piece is totally wrong, unless you're receiving SS benefits because of a mental deficiency, you can still get a gun.

It's not, as the OP implies today and implied before, as simple as "if you get a SS check you can't get a gun." Being adjudicated as mentally deficient is already a prohibiting instance for purchasing a firearm.


Quoted for more visibility. Calm down rednecks, they haven't come for your guns in eight years and they still aren't. They're protecting you and your children by enforcing more controls over mentally less able people to own high powered killing machines. It's called common sense.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: LumenImagoDei
a reply to: Restricted

Back in October actually.


One incident amongst dozens. That's pretty lame.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 12:34 PM
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The act to "fix" the NCIS was passed and signed by W in 2007, after all these years and discussion they have put the final rules in place.

Will add, I have a cousin and a nephew that both draw disability due to mental issues and have a long history of it, I would not want either of them to own a firearm.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 07:22 PM
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Notice how the DNC never want to take voting rights away from mentally deficient. That's their voter base. They want to bus them in and tell them how to vote.

This is called incrementalism. Slowly but surly they move to disarm the citizen. It even sounds reasonable to the untrained eye.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 10:03 PM
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originally posted by: rickymouse
I haven't heard of many senior citizens going out and shooting up schools or going to malls and killing people. None seem to have gone shoot their fellow workers, they aren't working anymore so have no fellow workers.

I'm guessing that this is discrimination against older citizens. Just because you have your kids taking care of your money doesn't mean you need your guns taken away. Maybe lawyers are afraid the Seniors will find out they have been embezzling their funds and the seniors might come after them and shoot them. Obama is a lawyer, he may be looking out for his own. Seniors have more chance of getting ripped off by financial managers than anything, especially in Florida.


Social Security isn't limited to old retirees, it's actually used to help young people with disabilities -- it's called SSI. My friend was receiving social security from the age of 14 for having an attention disability.

If this isn't fake news, it's surely not going to affect retirees, and it's specifically supposed to target those claiming SSI benefits for disability.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

it's his "final' days in office. Are you really surprised he is going all out now? His two terms are up, and he has nothing to lose now especially with his birth certificate proven to be false despite the denial of the left. Expect several more surprises before Trump's inauguration.


originally posted by: JustTheFacts
a reply to: xuenchen

This looks and feels like FAKE NEWS to me.
Please post some sources.
I would like to follow this in the real world.


Ten people who starred your post don't seem to recognize governmental links. Those ten(and counting maybe) people are questionable. Either they can't read, do research, or they have their own agenda. (which by now people should be aware of.)

Not fake news, but you are free to believe what you want.
Just the facts.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 12:13 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
Unless my reading of the actual information and not the opinion piece is totally wrong, unless you're receiving SS benefits because of a mental deficiency, you can still get a gun.

It's not, as the OP implies today and implied before, as simple as "if you get a SS check you can't get a gun." Being adjudicated as mentally deficient is already a prohibiting instance for purchasing a firearm.


No? The left, including scholars, psychologists and other "medical experts" have come out of the wood work to proclaim that having conservative, or other "right wing" views is a mental illness...

Let me give you examples on how "progressives" have/are using political, or even religious views as "signs of mental instability".


Barry X. Kuhle Ph.D.
Evolutionary Entertainment

Conservatism as a Mental Illness
Republican pols have recently exhibited 10 telltale signs of mental illness.
Posted Jun 12, 2012

The specter of mental illness does indeed loom large over creationists, but they are not alone. Signs of psychopathology can also be seen among their political bedfellows, conservative politicians, especially when you consider a wide range of illness indicators. In his award-winning 2005 book, Dr. James Whitney Hicks discusses 50 signs of mental illness including denial, delusion, hallucination, disordered thinking, anger, anti-social behavior, sexual preoccupation, grandiosity, general oddness, and paranoia. Now I'm no clinician, but in my (admittedly biased brown) eyes it seems that prominent Republicans have evidenced each of these ten telltale signs of mental illness over the past year:
...


Conservatism as a Mental Illness

PARANOID POLITICS

Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

I didn't know that "being a moron" could earn people a Phd even in psychology...


by Ian Tuttle November 24, 2014 5:00 PM @iptuttle
...
The Left has a storied history of transforming legitimate disagreement into mental illness. Utilizing his influence as director of the Institute of Psychiatry of the USSR Academy of Medical Sciences, Soviet psychiatrist Andrei Snezhnevsky propagated throughout the Soviet Union and its satellites the notion ofsluggish schizophrenia,a condition from which, conveniently, thousands of Soviet dissidents happened to suffer. Opposing official government policy, pessimism, religious practice — all were symptoms of mental instability, the solution for which was incarceration in a mental hospital.

The Peoples Republic of China continues the practice. In September, watchdog group Chinese Human Rights Defenders reported that a blogger critical of the government had been seized in his home and committed. Another activist apparently has been in psychiatric detention since 2007. The American Left has not set up hospitals, but one can see less extreme manifestations of the same impulse all about. Consider “sensitivity training.”
...

www.nationalreview.com...

The tea party and the politics of paranoia

Let's not forget "thinkprogress"...

Conservative Paranoia and Conservative Authoritarianism, Two Bad Tastes That Go Very Badly Together

The same thing can be said about the left choosing what they want to brand "fake news"... Which President Obama is also in favor of doing.

They choose what is "fake news" and they can choose what is considered "mental health issues", all based on left-wing standards.



edit on 27-12-2016 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.

edit on 27-12-2016 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

Did you actually read the evidence posted by ATS member StoutBroux on page 3?

Here it is again.


www.regulations.gov...

As reported in the April 2016 issue of Gun News, the Veterans Administration has been working with the FBI , banning the possession of firearms by more than 257,000 veterans who use a bookkeeper to manage benefits. (6) The VA claims that use of a financial manager is proof, by itself, that the veteran in question is "mentally defective." Getting help with money management is no sign that a person is unsafe with guns: a few years ago, the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service revealed that he paid a team of lawyers and accountants to do his personal income taxes. Obama himself probably does likewise.

Out of the first 177,000 veterans and their survivors to be put on the FBI's NICS gun ban registry, only 298 appealed, and just 53 people out of 177,000 escaped the net. (7)The mentally ill are the latest targets for disarmament. This year, at the end of April, the Social Security Administration proposed a rule (8) that will, if implemented, take away gun rights from millions of its disability recipients whose primary disability is related to mental health . (9) For purposes of this rule, such common symptoms as anxiety, abnormal sleep/appetite, inflated self esteem, or decreased energy, combined with alleged difficulty in managing money, are sufficient to disqualify a person from possessing firearms . (9) As the NRA-ILA notes, "At no point in the actual 'adjudication' is the individual's propensity for violence a necessary consideration."


It does seems that the ones trying to make false claims are those who want to dismiss this.

So Obama the savior, alongside the mainstream media can deem what is "fake news", and they can also deem what is "a mental issue". They get to decide based on their own left-wing bias. But none of this is true?...


edit on 27-12-2016 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Here it is again.

I don't see that quotation in the link provided within it. What is "Gun News?"



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: Phage



Senator: Veterans Still Losing Gun Rights Because of VA Reporting

Stars and Stripes | Apr 17, 2015 | by Travis J. Tritten

WASHINGTON -- A Senate panel chairman rekindled a debate Wednesday over whether veterans who cannot manage their own benefits should be considered "mentally defective" by the FBI and barred from buying guns.

Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder saying veterans issued a fiduciary by the Department of Veterans Affairs are still being automatically flagged in the electronic database used to vet firearms sales across the country.
...

www.military.com...

That has been happening to veterans under Obama's watch. Now he, and his left-wing administration have added the elderly who receive benefits.




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