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Let's Face It We Were ALL Duped

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posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

My personal gambit is the old proof the WTC fire insulation protection was not adequate. The WTC was slowly upgrading its insulation do to previous studies.

The long floor beams and tower structure did not have reinforced concrete columns along floor beam spans to prevent sagging.

No sprinkler systems to effectively suppress fires due to the jets cutting fire header mains.

The fire fights were not manned to fight numerous high rise office fires compounded with no fire water.

The fuel induced fire spread fire faster than what the WTC was designed for.

Then the sagging with subsequence contraction upon cooling causing strain beyond design limits on columns and floor connections.

edit on 25-12-2016 by neutronflux because: Added studies




posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Lots of fire protection foam was blown off, too. And I agree with most of that you just said, too.

The hanger brackets at the ends of floor trusses were weakened by the heat enough to start truss failures which supported the acre of one foot thick concrete on each floor. Once one went it fell ten feet to impact the next and the next...
edit on 25-12-2016 by intrptr because: spelling



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:16 PM
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Always the same argument and yet you just don't get it, NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING about the OS is accurate.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:18 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

I don't want to open a can of worms.

Truth is not found by pushing falsehoods.

I would like to know the truth of our governments failings, but people thinking CD is mutually inclusive with questioning what is labeled the official narrative is a distraction. And it seems so by design.

Especially in the context the NIST reports have nothing to do with the failures of policies, intelligence, politicians, immigration, airport security, and the military?



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

I agree wth that too. Lets get our head out the rubble pile and expose these bastards that used 911 to promote unjust endless war under false pretenses.

Seasons greetings...



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

15 HARD FACTS ABOUT 9/11

kendoc911.wordpress.com...




1) The collapse of WTC 7 in under 7 seconds. NIST admits 2.25 seconds of FREE FALL acceleration. NIST refuses to release the data used in their collapse simulation claiming it might “jeopardize public safety”. Steel framed high-rise buildings have NEVER totally collapsed from fire or structural damage. Building 7 was not hit by a plane. Building 7’s collapse was not mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report. Google ‘Building 7’, ‘WTC 7’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 2) BBC correspondent Jane Standley and Phil Hayton reported the collapse of WTC 7 (Salomon Brothers Building) 20 minutes before it happened. BBC claims to have lost their original footage on 9/11 “(for reasons of cock-up, not conspiracy)”. CNN/FOX/MSNBC also had early reports of the collapse of building 7. “either collapsed or is collapsing”. “That is the building that is going to go down next.” Ashleigh Banfield. Research ‘BBC wtc 7’, ‘early reports’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 3) 2300+ Engineers and Architects support a new independent 9/11 investigation. Richard Gage AIA (Founder of AE911). Watch ‘Explosive Evidence’, ‘Blueprint for Truth’, ‘Toronto Hearings’. Tony Szamboti B.S.M.E., Dan Barnum FAIA, Lynn Margulis. Research ae911truth.org. 200+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials question the official story. Research Robert Bowman, Sibel Edmonds, Paul Craig Roberts, Cynthia McKinney. Google ‘9/11 Whistle blowers’ and ‘Patriots for 9/11’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 4) Hundreds of firefighters and witness testimony to MOLTEN METAL was ignored by the 9/11 Commission. NIST’s John Gross denies the existence of Molten Metal. FEMA found “Evidence of a severe high temperature corrosion attack” on the “Swiss Cheese” WTC 7 steel sample, ‘Limited Metallurgical Examination (FEMA C-13, Appendix C-6)’. Leslie Robertson claimed “As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running”. “Like you’re in a foundry” FDNY witnesses. Nano Thermite was found in WTC dust at Ground Zero. Peer reviewed in the Bentham Open Chemical Physics Journal (Steven Jones, Niels Harrit et al.). Research ‘Iron rich spheres’, ‘Red gray chips’. Jon Cole “The great thermate debate”. ‘Nano Tubes’. Research ‘Molten Steel’ and ‘Nano Thermite’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 5) Hundreds of Firefighters and witness testimony to BOMBS/EXPLOSIONS ignored by the 9/11 Commission Report. 9/11 Commission Report bars 503 1st responder eyewitnesses and 118 Firefighter witnesses to explosions. From video footage it’s clear to see ‘squibs’ and waves of explosions ripping down the side of the Towers. Many Firefighters witnessed “Explosions in the lobby and sub levels”, ‘Oral Histories’. NIST failed to follow NFPA 921 guidelines for fire and explosion investigations. Research Barry Jennings, William Rodriguez, Erik Lawyer, David Chandler, Graeme MacQueen, Kevin Ryan ‘Demolition Access’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 6) Dick Cheney was in command of NORAD on 9/11. Cheney recalls taking charge from the PEOC bunker (CNN). Norman Mineta testified “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary?”. Cheney admits that he “Gave the order to shoot down Flight 93”. NORAD failed to intercept any of the four flights for over an hour and a half. Several ‘War Game’ exercises were taking place as 9/11 was unfolding. Research ‘NORAD Drills’, Webster Tarpley, Norman Mineta, Mark Dayton “NORAD lied”. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 7) The FBI confiscated 84/85 videos from in and away from the Pentagon as noted in the ‘Declaration of Jacqueline Maguire’. Pentagon security CCTV does not clearly show a 757. The Double Tree and Citgo videos do not show a plane and the Sheraton Hotel video was never released to the public. ‘5 Still Frames’ released in 2002. CCTV footage released after the ‘Moussaoui trial’ in 2006 ‘Judicial Watch’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 8) Osama Bin Laden was NOT wanted by the FBI for the 9/11 attacks, “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”. CIA created, trained and funded “Al Qaeda” during the Mujahideen (1980’s). Osama Bin Laden was a CIA asset named ‘Tim Osman’. Fox News reported Osama died in Dec 2001. At least 7 of the 19 listed hijackers were reported alive by the BBC. FBI has never updated their original list. No video footage of 19 hijackers or passengers boarding the 4 flights. Pilots of the 4 planes never squawked the hijacking code ‘7500’. Research ‘FBI Bin Laden’, ‘Alive hijackers’, ‘Al-CIA-Da’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 9) ‘5 Dancing Israeli’s were arrested with ‘Mossad Truck Bombs’ on 9/11’. Arresting Officer was Scott DeCarlo. ‘Kurzberg’s, Shmuel, Ellner, Marmari’. They were held in FBI custody for 71 days before being deported back to Israel. They claimed to be in New York to “document the event.” ‘Urban Moving Systems’ was a Mossad front company operated by Dominic Suter. UMS was given a “$498,750 Federal grant” in June of 2001. ‘George Washington Bridge’ and ‘King Street/5th’ bomb threat. Research ‘Mossad Truck Bombs’ and ‘Israeli Spying’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 10) Six out of the Ten 9/11 Commissioners have publicly stated that the report was “Setup to fail” – Co Chairs Lee Hamilton and Thomas Kean. “The white house has played cover up” – Max Cleland, resigned calling it a “National scandal’ and “Whitewash”. John Farmer wrote the book ‘The Ground Truth’ where he wrote “the government agreed not to tell the truth about 9/11”. “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting” – Timothy Roemer. Tom Daschle “Was asked to not investigate 9/11″. Bush hesitated for 441 Days before starting the 911 Commission after pressure from the victims’ family members, ‘Jersey Girls’. The 911 commission was only given $15 million to investigate 9/11. Initially only $3 million was given. Director Philip Zelikow wrote the outline before the commission began. The PATRIOT ACT was written before 9/11 and signed into law on October 26th, 2001. Just 45 days after 9/11. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 11) In September, 2000. The Project for a New American Century (PNAC), a neo-conservative think-tank released their report, entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defenses.” In it, they declared that “the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a NEW PEARL HARBOR.” Dick Cheney states that 9/11 achieved the goals of PNAC and was his “highest moment in office”. Listen to Paul Wolfowitz’s “chilling speech” about Pearl Harbor in June 2001. Research ‘PNAC’, “New Pearl Harbor”. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 12) On September 10th, 2001, Rumsfeld reported $2.3 TRILLION missing and unaccounted for at the Pentagon. Renovations were recently done to the Pentagon in the exact spot where “Flight 77” impacted. The area targeted was the Office of Naval Intelligence Accounting department auditing the unaccounted $2.3 Trillion. Dov Zakheim was Pentagon Comptroller and was CEO of System Planning Corporation (SPC) from 1987-2001, which specialized in ‘Flight Termination Systems’. Never identified firms made millions by placing ‘Put Options’ on United and American Airlines. Research “Missing $2.3 Trillion”, “Dov Zakheim”. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 13) Marvin Bush, director of Stratesec in 2000 (Securacom, ‘KuAm’) was in charge of security at the WTC, United Airlines and Dulles International Airport. All three were breached on 9/11. ICTS also provided security at 9/11 airports. Research Marvin Bush, Barry McDaniel, Wirt Walker, Ezra Harel. Kroll took control of WTC security after the 1993 attack. “Who killed John O’Neill?”. O’Neill was Former FBI task force agent investigating Al Qaeda/Bin Laden. Was transferred by Kroll Corporation to head WTC security just before 9/11. John O’Neil died in the Towers. Jerome Hauer was Managing Director with Kroll Inc. and former director of OEM. Research ‘Kroll’, ‘ICTS’, ‘Securacom’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 14) “Flight 93” debris was spread out over miles. Media reported multiple crash sites. Chris Konicki described the crash site as “nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there”. Coroner Wallace Miller claimed there were “no bodies” and “Not a drop of blood”. Mayor Ernie Stull said “there was no plane”. Rumsfeld claimed they “shot down the plane over Pennsylvania”. FBI claimed to have recovered “95 percent” of “Flight 93”. NTSB was called off the investigation. Research the Shanksville crash site. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com... 15) Towers were built to withstand a Boeing jet(s). Leslie Robertson, WTC structural Engineer, claimed he “designed it for a 707 to hit it”. Frank De Martini, deceased Manager of WTC Construction stated the towers “could probably sustain multiple impacts of jetliners” and that a plane would be “like a pencil puncturing your screen netting”. Charlie Thornton, Structural Engineer said “As far as a plane knocking a building over, that would not happen.” George Bush claims he watched the first plane crash into the north tower on TV before entering the classroom, “the TV was obviously on”. Bush was informed about the second impact while reading ‘The Pet Goat’. SOURCED: kendoc911.wordpress.com...



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:38 PM
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a reply to: searcherfortruth

Going to debate, or just push comments you don't like off the page with long posts?

Questions for you..

Explain how a CD is pulled of without the sounds created by ear shattering 140 db pressure waves.

Or explain how a CD system would servive hours of raging fires, extensive building damage to pull of twice in one day the first CD of a high rise office building over 50 floors and the first top down demolition of high rise office building. Plus, without inflicting damage of demolition shrapnel to WTC debris, victims, raining out into street, and adjacent buildings.

Then add, if your part of the thermite camp, how slow and inconsistent burning thermite was used to pull off the first top down CD of buildings twice in one day using a damaged and fire ravaged CD system?

edit on 25-12-2016 by neutronflux because: Fixed a large U



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: neutronflux

Lots of fire protection foam was blown off, too. And I agree with most of that you just said, too.

The hanger brackets at the ends of floor trusses were weakened by the heat enough to start truss failures which supported the acre of one foot thick concrete on each floor. Once one went it fell ten feet to impact the next and the next...


Not wanting to be a nitpicker but the concrete floors weren't a foot thick, they were much thinner at 100mm or 4" thick and lightweight concrete (less compression strength than standard high strength mixes) as well. They really wouldn't offer much opposition to a large falling mass at all exactly as we've observed.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 12:02 AM
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Blowing up a building does not equal controlled demolition. Anyone that says explosives is met by the argument that it didn't look like a controlled demolition. Why would it? If it was an inside job do you think the perpetrators were concerned with bring img the towers down neatly and safely? That make no sense.

I'm not saying explosives were used bit when you give a stupid reason to discount a theory and call it proof you are usually met with resistance.

If you don't have a better reason to discount explosives other than:

- it takes to much wire
- it would have blown up inward
- someone would have seen people rigging it.
- someone would have heard explosives and even though they did it was not the exact same sound as a CD.

All those reasons are stupid. They are the kind of reasons you dwell on when you don't want to know anything more than what you were told either due to extreme gullibility/ignorance or your a troll.

Pancake theory is for retards. Show me a computer generated visual collapse of WTC 1 OR 2. Oh ya, there isn't one because it would look retarded.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 12:30 AM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA

You want proof of this or that, but only state pancake theory is retarded when the NIST reports really are not based on pancaking?

Where is the filtered and isolated audio based off WTC video that clearly isolates the sounds of detonating of explosives. Richard Gauge and Steven Jones would wet themselves if the evidence existed. But had to create the concept of fizzle no flash bombs. Thus, alienating those that claim heard explosions.

For thermite or class CD. No steel worked on by demolitions. Over 18,000 individual pieces of human remains recovered. 6,000 that could fit in a test tube. No demolitions shrapnel recovered, blasting cap fragments, shape charge fragments, demolition wiring, or fragments of remote detonators.

Video showing inward biwing of WTC 2 leading to collapse. www.metabunk.org...

You have advocates of CD, Nukes, Lasers and holograms, holograms and missiles, and dustification disproving each other.

People not understanding the NIST reports are a comprised collection of peer reviewed and published research because conspiracists are to cheep to subscribe to engineering or science journals. Or to lazy to go to a college library.

After 15 years, no theory that can supersede sagging and contracting floor beams causing inward bowing and collapse.

Still pushing the false narrative, after 15 years, that movement skeptics explaintion relies on fire melted steel. Which was never the case. 800 too 1000 degrees f, steel losses 60 percent of its ability to resist strain. And the heat only caused sagging, not failure. It's the cooling and contracting that initiated failure.


edit on 26-12-2016 by neutronflux because: Fixed finger fumbles added last paragraph



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 01:21 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: MALBOSIA

You want proof of this or that, but only state pancake theory is retarded when the NIST reports really are not based on pancaking?

Where is the filtered and isolated audio based off WTC video that clearly isolates the sounds of detonating of explosives. Richard Gauge and Steven Jones would wet themselves if the evidence existed. But had to create the concept of fizzle no flash bombs. Thus, alienating those that claim heard explosions.

For thermite or class CD. No steel worked on by demolitions. Over 18,000 individual pieces of human remains recovered. 6,000 that could fit in a test tube. No demolitions shrapnel recovered, blasting cap fragments, shape charge fragments, demolition wiring, or fragments of remote detonators.



F@#k thermite. And NIST doctored the interior partitions and furniture layout to create the fire spread they needed in their models. No as-builts for some tenants could be produced so they just made it up.


Video showing inward biwing of WTC 2 leading to collapse. www.metabunk.org...








That angle looks a lot like blowing out.



You have advocates of CD, Nukes, Lasers and holograms, holograms and missiles, and dustification disproving each other.


And that proves the OS? How?


People not understanding the NIST reports are a comprised collection of peer reviewed and published research because conspiracists are to cheep to subscribe to engineering or science journals. Or to lazy to go to a college library.


Ya, and people that bet on others not actually reading it and make absolute statements based on a laboratory test that anyone can pay for to get any result they want. You know... science.


After 15 years, no theory that can supersede sagging and contracting floor beams causing inward bowing and collapse.


Well I just showed you above that inward bowing did not occur outside debunking 9/11's superimposed images and 1 corner of 1 building that was hit by a plane right at the corner that bowed in. That corner is the only instance of inward bowing. You don't look past what you are told so you wouldn't know that.


Still pushing the false narrative, after 15 years, that movement skeptics explaintion relies on fire melted steel. Which was never the case. 800 too 1000 degrees f, steel losses 60 percent of its ability to resist strain. And the heat only caused sagging, not failure. It's the cooling and contracting that initiated failure.


And 99% of the buildings weren't any warmer than room temperature and not a single structural impairment. Oh wait the, the mob stole the rivets, right?
edit on pMon, 26 Dec 2016 01:32:00 -06002016 000Mon, 26 Dec 2016 01:32:00 -0600amAmerica/ChicagoMonday by MALBOSIA because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 01:41 AM
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As far as difficulty "rigging" the towers for demolition. Let's not forget this little fact.

The guy in charge of the company who ran security for the WTC? Marvin Bush...gee what an odd coincidence.

No amount of architect hyperbole can explain away these coincidences. The put options, the missing gold, NORAD being spread thin and told to stand down, etc etc.

Anyone with half a brain can see what a hoodwink it is. But please continue explaining how "a concrete truss payload weakens 45.6% on a tuesday" or whatever garbage script you got.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 01:42 AM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA

Another rant

One: if demolition blowout the side, then a rain of determination shrapnel would have been produced.

Two: if the whole side was blown out visibly by explosives, then the audio would have been clearly distinct. Thanks for debunking yourself.

Three, prove the other sides did not bow inward.


Four, room temp? You would be more credible if you just said NIST lied. You don't even know what to argue..



www.nist.gov...

14. How did NIST derive the temperatures in the WTC towers and how valid are they?


Using all the visual and physical evidence available, NIST conducted simulations of the fires in each of the towers from the time of airplane impact to the collapses. The computational model used to simulate the fires was NIST's Fire Dynamics Simulator (FDS). This model had been validated in numerous experiments and fire recreations prior to the NIST WTC investigation. Additional large-scale experiments conducted during the investigation (NIST NCSTAR 1-5) provided further assurance of the validity of the model output. This output was in the form of maps of the air temperatures on each of the floors over the duration of the fires (shown in NIST NCSTAR 1-5F).
In a following set of computations, the evolving temperatures of the concrete and steel structural components of the towers were calculated by exposing them to the mapped air temperatures (shown in NIST NCSTAR 1-5G).
Both sets of computations are based on the fundamental laws of combustion, heat transfer, and air flow. The methods have been documented extensively and have been successfully subjected to technical peer review and published in professional journals.


15. Since the melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit) and the temperature of a jet fuel fire does not exceed 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit), how could fires have impacted the steel enough to bring down the WTC towers?


In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).
However, when bare steel reaches temperatures of 1,000 degrees Celsius, it softens and its strength reduces to roughly 10 percent of its room temperature value. Steel that is unprotected (e.g., if the fireproofing is dislodged) can reach the air temperature within the time period that the fires burned within the towers. Thus, yielding and buckling of the steel members (floor trusses, beams, and both core and exterior columns) with missing fireproofing were expected under the fire intensity and duration determined by NIST for the WTC towers.



The NIST is still more realistic than saying the towers were rigged for CD and not found out.

Then for a CD system to survive jet impacts that severed electrical lines, elevator cables, and water mains.

Then for the CD system survive extensive fires.

Then to carry out the first CD of a high rise building over 50 floors and the fisrt high raise top down demolition, flawlessly twice in one day using a fire deranged CD system has about a zero chance of occurring.
edit on 26-12-2016 by neutronflux because: Forgot source

edit on 26-12-2016 by neutronflux because: Added 50 floors to last paragraph



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 01:59 AM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA


I really had to laugh at this statement.



And 99% of the buildings weren't any warmer than room temperature and not a single structural impairment. Oh wait the, the mob stole the rivets, right?

Its like saying I don't know why the person died by the bullet 99 percent of there body was unharmed. Really seriously???????



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 05:43 AM
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What happened to all the flight recorders that were supposedly indestructible and how come we never got any information about what was on them?

Where were all the bodies at Shanksville and where was all the plane wreckage?

How come there was not a "crime scene" investigation at the Twin Towers?

Why was all of the evidence removed and taken somewhere else before doing a thorough search on the site?

The Pentagon just happened to get hit in the accounting section and where did the entire plane go?

How come an aluminum plane went through 2 buildings at speeds they were not designed to fly at and not break into pieces on impact? The wings and engines and the tail section should have all been found on the ground outside of the building.

This does not explain the coincidences of the many investigations that disappeared from public record that were ongoing by the SEC and how is it that so many people got rich off of convenient stock purchases without an investigation?

Insurance fraud. Petro dollar. Oil. WOMD. Iran. Iraq. Afghanistan. Pipeline. Freedom.

Do you really feel safer, today? What did they accomplish besides making us more afraid and taking freedom away from us.

No. We are still being DUPED by the same criminals and have been for a long time, 9/11 was just one of many nefarious actions by the same controlling evil minded faction. This has been ancestral and handed down from generation to generation within the same families for centuries, beginning with the British Royalty. The entire planet has been ruled by a very powerful group for a very long time and 9/11 was all their doing.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux










posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 07:39 AM
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originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: neutronflux

Lots of fire protection foam was blown off, too. And I agree with most of that you just said, too.

The hanger brackets at the ends of floor trusses were weakened by the heat enough to start truss failures which supported the acre of one foot thick concrete on each floor. Once one went it fell ten feet to impact the next and the next...


Not wanting to be a nitpicker but the concrete floors weren't a foot thick, they were much thinner at 100mm or 4" thick and lightweight concrete (less compression strength than standard high strength mixes) as well. They really wouldn't offer much opposition to a large falling mass at all exactly as we've observed.

Quite alright, thanks for the nitpick.


The floors consisted of 4-inch (10 cm) thick lightweight concrete slabs laid on a fluted steel deck...

wiki


The buildings were a compromise between height and weight of material, mostly empty space when viewed from the right angle. This design 'flaw' did not go unnoticed by the attack planners.

image

Edit: Then again, no-one even remotely considered the possibility someone would intentionally slam heavily laden jumbo jets into them at hundreds of miles an hour. The impacts were more destructive than most people realize. Turn it up...

edit on 26-12-2016 by intrptr because: Edit:



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: SuicideKing33
The *ahem* less endowed posters here are always good for a chuckle.



I think you're on the wrong site.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Sure, you believed NOTHING as it was being reported? Being duped has a broad range of possibilities and you do not think you were at all duped, then you are sadly mistaken and not being honest with yourself. Denialability.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: searcherfortruth

Sorry, I said lied to, not duped as such.
I think their is a difference

I see duped as more of a trick, it wasn't a trick at all
Let's argue pedantics, hey, let's not



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