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Brexit - 6 months on...

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posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 05:08 AM
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originally posted by: crayzeed
The Brexiters really do like to cherry pick and (lie) oops I mean distort the facts.
Fact one. Regain our sovereignty? We have never lost our sovereignty.
Fact two. We take back control over our borders? We have never lost control over our borders, in fact we have extended our border people to main land Europe.
Fact three. We are told what to do by EU parliament? No, no ALL the directives coming from the EU were that, directives. EVERY thing that has come out of the Eu had to be ratified by our government. They were not force to comply.
Fact four. Immigration? The majority of people that voted for brexit were concerned about the immigration problem. But what they couldn't differentiate between was the people coming to the UK from the EU countries to work (they got classed as immigrants to blur the line for the brexiteers) and the immigrants who came from outside the EU, the majority of which were coming to claim and live off our system. Now a nice question to ask the poster Fusiondoe (as he's from the East End of London and on about moving because of the immigrants) just who are the immigrants that upset him?
No, let me tell you the vast majority are Bangladeshi. Not from the EU. The people responsible for letting these type of immigrants into the country is not the EU it's our own governments decision. Yes, the were asked to take in so many but it was not an order it was their choice.
As for negotiating trade, the national lottery has the perfect phrase "you have to be in it to win it" and if I have to explain that to you then............


Ironic that you talk about lies then produce a whopper of your own in the first paragraph.

Perhaps you simply fail to understand how allowing an unelected bunch of nobodies in the council of ministers to be the only people who can create and repeal laws for all 28 member states at once undermines the sovereignty of individual, national parliaments...

Just look at the recent debacle in the Netherlands, where they had a referendum over allowing free movement of people from the east and, despite an overwhelming no vote, their own parliament went with the council's proposal. How is that in any way at all a good example of democracy? What possible gloss can anyone put on it to show it in a positive light?




posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 07:11 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: crayzeed
The Brexiters really do like to cherry pick and (lie) oops I mean distort the facts.
Fact one. Regain our sovereignty? We have never lost our sovereignty.
Fact two. We take back control over our borders? We have never lost control over our borders, in fact we have extended our border people to main land Europe.
Fact three. We are told what to do by EU parliament? No, no ALL the directives coming from the EU were that, directives. EVERY thing that has come out of the Eu had to be ratified by our government. They were not force to comply.
Fact four. Immigration? The majority of people that voted for brexit were concerned about the immigration problem. But what they couldn't differentiate between was the people coming to the UK from the EU countries to work (they got classed as immigrants to blur the line for the brexiteers) and the immigrants who came from outside the EU, the majority of which were coming to claim and live off our system. Now a nice question to ask the poster Fusiondoe (as he's from the East End of London and on about moving because of the immigrants) just who are the immigrants that upset him?
No, let me tell you the vast majority are Bangladeshi. Not from the EU. The people responsible for letting these type of immigrants into the country is not the EU it's our own governments decision. Yes, the were asked to take in so many but it was not an order it was their choice.
As for negotiating trade, the national lottery has the perfect phrase "you have to be in it to win it" and if I have to explain that to you then............


Ironic that you talk about lies then produce a whopper of your own in the first paragraph.

Perhaps you simply fail to understand how allowing an unelected bunch of nobodies in the council of ministers to be the only people who can create and repeal laws for all 28 member states at once undermines the sovereignty of individual, national parliaments...

Just look at the recent debacle in the Netherlands, where they had a referendum over allowing free movement of people from the east and, despite an overwhelming no vote, their own parliament went with the council's proposal. How is that in any way at all a good example of democracy? What possible gloss can anyone put on it to show it in a positive light?

Free movement of people from the East...The East of where.? Any links on the debacle.?

Ok, I found it...Looks to me like the Dutch government Government signed the treaty in January then held a Referendum where 32% of the voting public turned out with 64% voting the treaty down...Now it's back to the drawing board...
Dutch Referendum



The broad political, trade and defence treaty – which had already been signed by the Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte’s government and approved by all other EU nations, and Ukraine – provisionally took effect in January. But on Wednesday 64% of Dutch referendum voters rejected it; the turnout was just 32% – barely enough for the result to be valid. [This] is a vote of no confidence by the people against the elite from Brussels and The Hague Geert Wilders Voters said they were opposing not only the treaty but wider European policymaking on matters ranging from the migrant crisis to economics. Though the referendum was non-binding, Rutte acknowledged late on Wednesday it was politically impossible for his unpopular government to ratify the treaty in its current form.


Not exactly going with the councils proposal is it. See, this is what we talk about when we use the term.."Cherry picking" to suit an agenda.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 08:33 AM
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Anyway...A Merry Brexmass to all and have a wonderful New Year.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:16 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Anyway...A Merry Brexmass to all and have a wonderful New Year.


That's a post no one with a pulse could disagree with.



Hope you and yours have a great one.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: fusiondoe

Not all the nations of the Uk voted to leave. Both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay. If England wants to leave thats all good. I dont see democracy being addressed when the will of entire nations are ignored.




posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 04:37 AM
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originally posted by: purplemer

Not all the nations of the Uk voted to leave. Both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay. If England wants to leave thats all good. I dont see democracy being addressed when the will of entire nations are ignored.



Am I wrong in thinking Scotland voted to stay in the UK?

There for remaining Scotland/UK


So when *The UK* voted to leave the EU it included the whole of the UK.

There were whole areas of England that voted to remain, they cannot remain.

The complete UK vote came out leave = democracy.

I don't see your problem



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 06:28 AM
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a reply to: fusiondoe


Iceland comes to mind, their economy was tanking because of criminals running their banks. Well they JAILED the bankers and got their country back on track and they are doing better than ever now. I applaud the UK for exiting the EU. The tide is turning against globalization everywhere and they (globalist interests) will be defeated.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 06:33 AM
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originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: fusiondoe

... . . I dont see democracy being addressed when the will of entire nations are ignored.


This is precisely why I and the much of the UK, voted to leave the EU.

I find it ironic that some politicians of countries that already belong to a political Union, now hate how Unions work, and are campaigning for independence because they want to stay part of a Union.

Ker-razy.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 07:57 AM
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originally posted by: doobydoll

This is precisely why I and the much of the UK, voted to leave the EU.


Nail on head...




I find it ironic that some politicians of countries that already belong to a political Union


Nicola Sturgeon??




now hate how Unions work, and are campaigning for independence because they want to stay part of a Union.


A contradiction in terms!



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: doobydoll

This is precisely why I and the much of the UK, voted to leave the EU.


Nail on head...




I find it ironic that some politicians of countries that already belong to a political Union


Nicola Sturgeon??




now hate how Unions work, and are campaigning for independence because they want to stay part of a Union.


A contradiction in terms!

The SNP have been campaigning for Independence from London/English rule for over 80 years...long before the European Union was even conceived... Nicola and the SNP are tasked with doing what's best for the people of Scotland. Dont you get that.? Is it too difficult for you to understand.?

As it stands Scotland would be better off going it's own way. Remaining part of a 28 nation common market is a also what's best for Scotland. Removing Trident from Scotland is also in the nations best interests. Taking control of all incomming and outgoings is also in Scotlands best interest. to have the ability to fix our own taxes to whatever we choose and not what Westminster dictates is also in Scotlands best interest...

You know, You guys like to talk about Scotland's Black hole in it's finances...ie, 10 billion+ in debt...For a country with massive Oil and gas resources that's not allowed by Westminster to ask anyone for a Loan then how in the hell do we end up with all this Debt.? Answers on a postcard please.
edit on 26-12-2016 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol

The SNP have been campaigning for Independence from London/English rule for over 80 years...long before the European Union was even conceived... Nicola and the SNP are tasked with doing what's best for the people of Scotland. Dont you get that.? Is it too difficult for you to understand.?



I think it's YOU that doesn't get it?

You had a referendum whether or not to stay in the UK?

55.3% Scots voted to stay in the *United Kingdom*

What part of the result of that referendum do you not understand?



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 12:08 PM
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A hard Brexit will mean the end of London as a financial capital in the short term. The lost income will not be easily replaced. Britain's income will probably fall to that of Spain. Food supplies will change and the cost of food will probably rise.


I cannot see how to QUICKLY rebuild the nation@s wealth.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

The SNP have been campaigning for Independence from London/English rule for over 80 years...long before the European Union was even conceived... Nicola and the SNP are tasked with doing what's best for the people of Scotland. Dont you get that.? Is it too difficult for you to understand.?



I think it's YOU that doesn't get it?

You had a referendum whether or not to stay in the UK?

55.3% Scots voted to stay in the *United Kingdom*

What part of the result of that referendum do you not understand?


^^^ THIS



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Tiger5
A hard Brexit will mean the end of London as a financial capital in the short term. The lost income will not be easily replaced. Britain's income will probably fall to that of Spain. Food supplies will change and the cost of food will probably rise.


I cannot see how to QUICKLY rebuild the nation@s wealth.


Surely this is a good thing for the rest of the country outside the financial capital? If revenues collapse from financial services then Sterling will hopefully collapse too making our products made here much more competitve against imprts and much easier to compete in the export markets. Brexit could be the saviour of the rest of Great Britain that for too long has been cast aside.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Tiger5
A hard Brexit will mean the end of London as a financial capital in the short term. The lost income will not be easily replaced. Britain's income will probably fall to that of Spain. Food supplies will change and the cost of food will probably rise.


I cannot see how to QUICKLY rebuild the nation@s wealth.


Surely this is a good thing for the rest of the country outside the financial capital? If revenues collapse from financial services then Sterling will hopefully collapse too making our products made here much more competitve against imprts and much easier to compete in the export markets. Brexit could be the saviour of the rest of Great Britain that for too long has been cast aside.


Yeah, pretty soon we'll all be making dildo's and and various other cheap electrical crap for 50 cents a day..I'm pretty sure the Government would love for us all to be competing with the likes of India and Taiwan for a slice of the action but your mortgage lender or landlord wont..



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 03:15 PM
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Pretty much sums up the mind of the Brexiter.

Go ahead punk, Make my day.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 05:13 PM
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As usual with threads like this, I have to wonder if I live in the same four dimensions as some of the posters. Thing is, you can't use facts to refute opinions rooted in strong emotion, so there's only a few points worth adding to the discussion.

Before anyone says anything about the liberal left, I voted to leave. (Besides, liberal left is an oxymoron like apple banana. And another thing: most of the hard left wanted to leave too, including Corbyn.). There is no partisan intention behind the folllowing.

One: Brexit hasn't happened.

Two: the referendum was never really about the EU. It was Cameron trying to settle a thirty year Tory civil war. Had he won, he would have taken it as a mandate to Blairise his party. There was no plan B. He lost and the civil war rumbles on. That's why the openly Brexit candidates for PM were sidelined. Teresa May has inherited a grenade with the pin taken out and hasn't been able to throw it at the opposition. Her first priority is to keep her party from getting blown up.

Three: we didn't vote leave to reduce immigration. We didn't vote for a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit. We voted to leave the EU full stop. No markets, no free movement, no rebates, no sovereignty, we only voted just to leave. Everything else was a reason for our vote, not something we voted for. In or out were the only choices we were given, not how or why. The government will interpret the vote as it wants.

Four: We don't know how or when Brexit will happen. Teresa May won't tell us. Big institutions and think tanks have their expensive, considered evaluations and position papers so they can deduce a lot more than we can. The only people in the dark are the public. Think about that.

Five: Nissan have already summoned a British minister to Japan to see what sweeteners they can get. That tells you where the balance of power is. Every other big company and organisation has already compiled a wish list. As Trumps business secretary said only today, once Brexit happens all bets are off for the British economy and there are plenty of other countries that will welcome these companies with open arms.

Six: Once we leave, we will still be governed by unelected bureaucrats. Who do you think makes the decisions at your local council? The councillors can strongly advise but they cannot direct. Who do you think runs the NHS? The police? Schools? Who runs the OECD? The IMF? The WTO? Who are the negotiators for Brexit? Heck, who made Teresa May prime minister?

Seven: Why are so many people simultaneously for and against regaining our sovereignty? On one hand, we want our sovereignty back, on the other we don't want Parliament or the Judiciary to be involved? British Constition for Dummies page one. Parliamemt is sovereign. It gives the government its power. The Judiciary is there to ensure the government does not exceed its powers. That simple.

Eight: Even if we repealed every law of the last thirty five years at the stroke of a pen, like Charles II did at the Resortoration , our regs will still have to be compliant with global trade regs anyway. Seeing as there is no way on earth we will repeal all that legislation in one go, as a business owner I have to assume the regs will stay unchanged in the medium term.

Nine: Most of the London Media Bubble cannot be trusted to report on Brexit. If you want a laugh, read the Express. If you want a tenth of the story, read the Mail. If you want a broad understanding, the Times, the FT and the foreign press are the only way you're going to get it.

I haven't touched on UKIP or immigration or anything likely to hit a wall of emotional defensiveness but one thing is clear: we voted Leave without knowing what it meant so we are unlikely to get what we wanted. Whatever happens, the working man will foot the bill



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 03:21 AM
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originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Tiger5
A hard Brexit will mean the end of London as a financial capital in the short term. The lost income will not be easily replaced. Britain's income will probably fall to that of Spain. Food supplies will change and the cost of food will probably rise.


I cannot see how to QUICKLY rebuild the nation@s wealth.


Surely this is a good thing for the rest of the country outside the financial capital? If revenues collapse from financial services then Sterling will hopefully collapse too making our products made here much more competitve against imprts and much easier to compete in the export markets. Brexit could be the saviour of the rest of Great Britain that for too long has been cast aside.



No if the financial capital goes down then the rest of us are going to suffer. How are we going to rebuild the lost 30% that represented the London Financial services. We cannot just pass a Royal Decree and create a few dozen mega factories.

Sure our exports become cheaper and therefore more attractive. However, we do not have the low wage economy of say Taiwan. So we will have to lower the minimum wage. Lowering he minimum wage without lowering he cost of all good can only be done by subsidising food and all other necessities. This is a high risk strategy. We could do as Ireland did and basically gave government subsidies to foreign companies to set up for four years but guess what happened each company just disappeared towards the end of the deal and people were left out of work.


The lower value of the pound boosts our exports of which financial services are a part. But what our imports. Look at our clothing, Shoes, FOOD, fuel???

The "Five hundred pound bull ape in the middle of the room", is what will the capitalists do? Capitalists generally have no allegiance to any given country. They will only invest where they expect to make a profit. Are we really able to compete with low wage economies?

OK we will become technology leaders really?? Consider this paradox... The UK has several world -class universities however that does not mean that the UK is.. It cannot be because it ranks badly in the PISA education stakes.


In any event turning an economy around is not an easy or quick event. I think we are screwed!



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol
I was thinking it could be good for you Scots, you know making ships and the like. What about all the deep sea oil platforms that will need building, all the Royal Navy ships (; and subs, loads of engineering products allied to these production facilities. Why can't we in the UK just build are own boats, look at all the cruise liners that are built abroad surely Britain can make these again and still pay more than 50p?



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 11:24 AM
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originally posted by: Tiger5

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Tiger5
A hard Brexit will mean the end of London as a financial capital in the short term. The lost income will not be easily replaced. Britain's income will probably fall to that of Spain. Food supplies will change and the cost of food will probably rise.


I cannot see how to QUICKLY rebuild the nation@s wealth.


Surely this is a good thing for the rest of the country outside the financial capital? If revenues collapse from financial services then Sterling will hopefully collapse too making our products made here much more competitve against imprts and much easier to compete in the export markets. Brexit could be the saviour of the rest of Great Britain that for too long has been cast aside.





Sure our exports become cheaper and therefore more attractive. However, we do not have the low wage economy of say Taiwan. So we will have to lower the minimum wage. Lowering he minimum wage without lowering he cost of all good can only be done by subsidising food and all other necessities. This is a high risk strategy. We could do as Ireland did and basically gave government subsidies to foreign companies to set up for four years but guess what happened each company just disappeared towards the end of the deal and people were left out of work.






We don't need to lower the wages, sure minimum wages wre a big issue and you can look back and see in some sectors how it was the final nail in the coffin for certain factories. But we have to remember that was then, we now have the ability to compete as robots are taking over so many jobs out there. The minimum wage was a killer for textiles and low priced manufactured goods but the world has changed. British factories are massively more efficent these days and in many cases can compete with nearly every country out there bar China. China needs special treatment here and if it means banging on tarrifs onto their goods then so be it, as a trading people they are as shady as they come, they don't play it fair and fix their currency and are lax with the red tape end so make competition with them very difficult. Simple anyswer banh on tarrifs, if they don't like it there's loads of other states around the world that we can trade with on a level playing field.

We can't go back to make it attractive for companies to move here, then watch them pull out. It's got to bedomestic companies like Dyson that are world leaders that need 'encoraging' to relocate thei manufacturing back here to the UK. Dyson was a Judas, he bragged on about being British then finished off vacuum producing in Chard and sent it to Asia! At the same time Henry has proved it's cheaper to make the vacs here, bringing production back from Asia to the very same town in Somerset as it's cheaper to make them here now than abroad. We can compete on price and if the government just turns things a little on the taxation/persuasion front then we can definitely compete in the world and in domestic supply.

You mention capitalists, well yes that's true, they will set up all over the place and we need to get away from that. Germany has companies that have been owned for generations and are more integral to the towns/cities where they belong, hence they have stayed making in Germany and are less of a board owned business then an individual basis who has something in the heart something more than just a bunch of shareholders who care jack S*£t about the soul/employees of the company. We need to nurture that in Britain in the future.



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