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the failings of group descision making

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posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 05:03 AM
hi - i attempted to make the thread title as neutral and no-threatening as possible - but the real issue of this rant is :

group led stupidity

the synopsis is :

in 2015 a man committed suicide by hanging in a derelict building in manchester [ UK ] - 4 days later a group a photographers and models entered the building [ i vehemently object to the use of " broke into " as cited in the source ] and in the course of thier shoot discovered the body - and dlying in the face of all logical continued thier shoot for several hours , left the building - went to eat at a local pizza resteraunt - finally calling the police some 5 hours later .

the inquest concluded this week - and the coroner was not impressed with the conduct of the " witnesses " - FFS - one failed to attend [ despite a summons ] and is now in contempt and an arrest warrant is outstanding ]

my personal opinion of them = a violotion of almost all the T&C for ATS - and a few brittish statutes too

but - ATS - this is your chance to release your " inner pop-psychologist "


like i say - this is the reportage of the inquest - the events occured in 2015 - and i was aware of them at the time - but sat on the tail as reportage was minimal - and the case still pending inquest

a couple of caveats for people who are not familiar with english law - and clarifications of the tail :

1 - mr Noonan clearly killed himself on the day he was last seen - so no action or inaction by the group would have altered the fact that he ended up hanging from a girder

"trespass " - in english law - tresspass is not a criminal act - and for the purpose of this tail simply being presant at the property with out the authrorisation of the owners is not a criminal offence - and so " we were trespassing " is not a credible deterent to any rational action

so please dont sully any discussion with tangential musings on trespass etc etc etc

now - the juicy bit - opinion and discussion

this tail is [ my opinion ] a textbook study in " group stupidity " - all 5 were adults - and none could be realistically judged as " an idiot " and yet - between them - they managed to rationalise thier actions - at least as a temporary measure - and " carry on "

and thats where it gets interesting - because - its highly unlkey - that any one of them oporating solo would have acted in this manner

yet - all 5 went along with the " group plan "

there are reams of books , scholarly papers and case studies that address this issue - none cited here - pick your favoutite and refference // quote it to support your opinions

over to you

posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 05:09 AM
Now – the interesting bit [ my opinion ]

This tail shows us how “ group think “ fails

But I am left wondering – why it fails so spectactlarly in some cases – yet succeeds brilliantly in others ?

For the prupose of this thread – can we avoid the senarios that start with “ hold my beer and watch this “ and other “ stunt “ attempts that it generally takes 3 to 7 drunk blokes to conclude “ this is a good idea “

I do a lot of dangerous stuffs – and al my current activities have had fatal incidents in the UK in 2016 or 2015

But when I am with groups of like minded indivituals – we have a tendancy to attempt things that are more dangerous that the solo stuff we do

And we never have a “ leader “ – we always operate on the ` peer led ` principal – with

And we have not killed anyone yet – or even had a serious incident

Why ?? – I don’t claim that I an my friends are individually any more intelligent than any of the actors in tail above - there is no grand standing or hubris here

i am kust using myself as a spersonal example - i could point to cases that demonstrate that the " chinese parliament " descision making system clearly works on a reular basis

But how did they get it so badly wrong – yet my associates and I have never failed [ 40 years and counting ]

this aspect of the thread is hat i really want to discuss - not just villification or condemnation

because - to be honest - i have made some pretty assanine descisions in my lifetime - and done things that even left me wondering " why the hell did i do that "

yet - as a member of a peer led team - i think i make better descisions - and get it right

so what " tips the balance " ?

posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 05:14 AM
a reply to: ignorant_ape

simply being presant at the property with out the authrorisation of the owners is not a criminal offence - and so " we were trespassing " is not a credible deterent to any rational action

(Haven't read the article yet)

Did they know this?

I question, almost daily, why human adults do stupid things...

posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 05:44 AM
a reply to: ignorant_ape

Your own post demonstrates that this is merely a matter of opinion. You ask "How did they get it so badly wrong", but it is clear that in their own (group) opinion they got the decision right: the guy had already been dead for 4 days, and they believed they were guilty of trespass. I'm not saying I or any group I was in would have made the same decision, but I can understand why they made it.

You say "But when I am with groups of like minded individuals – we have a tendency to attempt things that are more dangerous that the solo stuff we do" followed quickly by "Yet - as a member of a peer led team - i think i make better decisions". To my mind, again purely a matter of opinion, your group decision is wrong. It is a worse decision. Collectively you are choosing to undertake an activity that is riskier than one you would have chosen to do yourself. Bearing in mind you undertake activities that have proven fatal to others, to boast that you have never failed (to make a wrong decision) in 40 years might be tempting fate.

posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 06:01 AM
Why are you attributing your own feelings and responsibilities toward a found dead body to these people?

I would instead put forth the argument that these people are callus and acted with disregard to the body; rather than being stupid and acting stupidly. I don't see what group think has to do with this at all; and I'm not convinced they would not have done the same had they each been alone in the situation.

It's entirely possible that these people do not share your moral belief that they should have acted right away.

posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 06:21 AM
I was thinking about this - there was an experiment done in England where a scientist was watching people at a fair guess the weight of a cow. They would anonymously write their names on pieces of paper and then put them in a hat and the winner was the one who was closest to the cow's weight. The scientist then collected the papers and took their average - and this was the exact weight of the cow, even though no one individually had guessed the correct weight. Remind me to do a thread on this.

Meanwhile, it seems when you and your friends get together they choose the most outrageous thing possible to do. It could be because you are not anonymous. In Democracy, the votes are anonymous. However, what if they were not? Would that change your vote? Probably!

posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 07:58 AM
Further proof crowds get stupid , bigger the crowd the more stupid they get .

posted on Dec, 24 2016 @ 03:24 AM
a reply to: Chadwickus

my opionon is that thier " traspass " argument was a dishonest deflection

evidence - they spent over 2 hours in the building after discovery of the body

posted on Dec, 24 2016 @ 03:27 AM
a reply to: lacrimoniousfinale

wow - how the hell did you work that masterfull insight out all by your self ??????????????

its not like i used the caveat " my opinion " at 2 key points in the narrative

posted on Dec, 24 2016 @ 06:08 AM
My thoughts...

What were they doing during the photo shoot that prevented them from calling the authorities right away ?
Drugs perhaps... that they had to wait for it to get out of their system, hence leaving to get food and not calling until 5 hrs later ? Something or someone in the group convinced the group to wait to call, why ?

So above it says they were trespassing, were they simply afraid when they found the body ? 1) They are trespassing on private property 2) A dead body is found

What was going through their minds ? Are we going to get framed for this person's death ? Did it take them 5 hours of "group discussion" to finally decide to call the authorities ? I imagine them bickering back and forth of the pros and cons of the situation they put themselves in when they decided to trespass. So for the next five hours, were they getting their story straight ? Why were their minds so afraid of calling right away, to me it is because the were already doing something wrong, aside from the trespassing ?

I know your thread is leaning towards a discussion of group mentality... on the negative side it brings to my mind gang-banging mentality and group hive mentality which we see all the time, especially in the work place. Groups that form and if you don't fit in... well lets just say you typically won't fit into that work place structure. Another place we see it occur frequently is in schools, when kids gang up and bully an individual for the same reason, they don't quite fit in with what the group has defined as being acceptable or normal so the individual gets pinpointed out and picked on. Another new one we are hearing about is targeted individuals in gas lighting / gang stalking scenarios, again the victims never even know why they are chosen to get picked on. But for some reason they are pinpointed out and the group begins their harassment regimen.

Another example would be any group that forms and bands together for what they claim to be good purposes. For example: The Red Cross, Humanitarian aid groups, Clubs of any type on so forth.

But I think your thread wants to discuss the group mentality that occurs randomly after a random event and what actions the group chooses to take when situations arise, and the groups I brought up above that are "good" are already structured with rules. The group dynamic process your bringing up is not structured and it ebbs and flows with no rules from the onset. So we have no way to know in advance which way it will go or if the decisions it makes will be good or bad, right or wrong.

& then who determines if it was right or wrong ? Another group.


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