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Abortion - A New Perspective... WE ARE PREGNANT!

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posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Fair enough--I didn't see which forum it was in, so he's obviously wanting to bait people into a discussion or argument.

Carry on





posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

No problem.


Perhaps I'm becoming too jaded because it's getting hard for me to see anything in the Mud-Pit as anything more than bait.



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

No, I think that your vision is perfect.



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

The "choice" should be restricted to when we are talking about necessity. We are talking about the life of another human being here that you are allowing a woman to arbitrarily end for her convenience with the full-throttle open choice we have now.

The choice over controlling one's reproduction is what happens before we consent to have sex. And like it or not, it will be that way until someone invents 100% effective birth control.



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: soulwaxer


oh, ya, vomiting and loss of that nice figure...
then there's the anemia, the displacement and possible damage to internal organs.
and well, gee, we might now be able to add changes to the very structure of the brain, and loss of grey matter to the list...

there's alot more to being pregnant than you want to make it out to be, and some of those changes can adversely affect a women's health for the rest of her life.

tell me, if you wife was told that there was a 50/50 chance that she would die if she tried to carry the pregnancy, would you be insistent that she risk her life trying to carry it or would you let her decide... if it turned out that she couldn't provide the proper care for those three children you have without risking that unborn baby, would you make sure she was never left alone with those kids, would you be there every minute you possibly could to help her out?



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: soulwaxer

Think what you will. But unlike most people, I prefer to understand all sides of a major issue before making a decision on it. I already said I hate abortion with a passion. I would personally never support it, and for years have advised people I know against it.

But I also understand that everyone has his/her own limits, priorities, feelings, goals, dreams, morals, etc. So I took the time out to understand why some people do it. Not by coming to my own conclusions or giving them a self righteous guilt trip; I simply asked and listened.

I've met some women who were raped by family members, which is why they got abortions. I've met some who used it as birth control, because they either didn't plan to get pregnant or didn't know about the low cost birth control programs in their communities (like at Planned Parenthood facilities). I've also known women who were pressured into it by family or the expecting father. I've met several women who've had multiple abortions, including some who've had reoccurring health issues & mental issues because of the guilt. I even know a few who've basically said they felt like they were haunted afterwords, but I'll leave that alone.

However the paragraph you quoted touches on just a few of the issues of pregnancies that I've heard. And like I said in that same paragraph, it's easy for guys to say what women should do when we're not the ones going through it. So yeah, I can definitely understand why a woman would abort the child of a deadbeat dad who expects her to go through the physical, emotional, and financial burden of pregnancy, childbirth, and raising a child on her own. There's a difference between understanding something and accepting it.

(And for the record, I'm guessing you don't know how much some women value their appearances. A lot of it is our fault though, since society judges women based on their looks. From similar conversations as those that I mentioned earlier, I'm starting to understand the wretched social pressure placed on women for their looks. It can affect everything including their employment, security, social credibility, status among friends and family, relationship status, etc. So yes, some women will not be willing to give up their looks, status, and physical health in order to bare the child of a guy who might not stick around.)

edit on 22-12-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-12-2016 by enlightenedservant because: rephrased something so as not to be so confrontational. grr.



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

Thanks for the examples. We definitely need more women to give details like that because there's no way guys will know this stuff. As understanding as I try to be, I'm still the same guy who nearly freaked out when asked to help one of my nieces potty train lol. It was like trying to learn a different language mixed with culture shock mixed with brain freeze.



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

That's your opinion. Clearly we disagree. I think women should also have a choice in all of the crap I mentioned in that post, too.

Ironically, when it comes to this issue, I actually agree with the normally conservative view that govt should stay out of our lives. Yet it's the conservatives who are demanding that government should legislate all kinds of ways to control the citizens on this issue, including the mandatory vaginal probes, involuntary sterilizations, and all of the other things I already mentioned. It's funny how that works.



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 06:08 PM
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originally posted by: jjsr420
a reply to: imjack

What? Simply because a being can't opine via Human speech, it's mindless?


Is that what I said? It's mindless because it's mind is operating on the lowest possible. It cannot just not speak, it cannot comprehend life, or even its own existance. It's arguably not even aware it's alive. Despite all this Christian scientists argue about what trimester it can feel pain, as if that even matters when comparing it to sentient life.


To me the arguement a fetus is alive is comparable to a vegetable. Is killing a vegetable ethically wrong and murder?
edit on 22-12-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: Winstonian

Congratulations on your pregnancy.

As someone who went through this process myself last year, I wish you all the best for the ongoing months.

I am pro-choice, and even after the realisation that I was going to be a father, I remain pro-choice. I do not like abortion, but I accept that it may be a reality for some due to certain circumstances. I doubt there are many who want to have a late-term abortion, and it seems that most late-term abortions are for those with severe fetal abnormalities.

I think that the most voracious anti-abortion people should also try to look at the other side of the argument and recognise that there are some situations where a termination may be the least worst possible outcome.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 04:16 PM
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Soul enters on the 3rd month. You can abort before 3rd month



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: suvorov
Soul enters on the 3rd month. You can abort before 3rd month



Are you sure about that?

That would mean two souls in one body?

Is that even feasible?



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 05:26 PM
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First of, congratulations! Your life will be enriched. I hope you had time to check off some of your bucket list beforehand, because your priorities will be shifting soon


Second off for all those no-choice and anti-abortion people, chill out.

1) There is always a choice and 2) most pro-lifers are willing to admit that abortion is a valid medical procedure that is thankfully only rarely required for the life of the mother. The majority of abortion are elective and you all know it.

There is another option: pro-responsible.

No one can stop people from having sex, but if they are responsible and practice proper contraception, no problem!

But if they do get pregnant, then it is their responsibility to bring the child to term and either care for it or find someone else who will. It's not the kid's fault the parents were irresponsible.

If a man rapes a woman and impregnates her, that is his responsibility. This is one of the few times I can say I support an elective abortion, because it is the woman's only choice to avoid a pregnancy she did not voluntarily takes actions to put in motion. Should the child be aborted, the man is charged with involuntary manslaughter because he is responsible for his actions.

If for some reason the woman's life is in danger, the choice of whether to continue the pregnancy or terminate is her responsibility, with input from the father if it was consensual.

If the child must be aborted, it is the responsibility of society as a whole to recognize the child's humanity and for government to provide a death certificate. A funeral should be arranged.

waiting for rebuttal...



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: Winstonian

Congratulations! You now have the most important job in the world.
It's worth it!



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu




The majority of abortion are elective and you all know it.


So?



No one can stop people from having sex, but if they are responsible and practice proper contraception, no problem!

But if they do get pregnant, then it is their responsibility to bring the child to term and either care for it or find someone else who will. It's not the kid's fault the parents were irresponsible.

If a man rapes a woman and impregnates her, that is his responsibility. This is one of the few times I can say I support an elective abortion, because it is the woman's only choice to avoid a pregnancy she did not voluntarily takes actions to put in motion. Should the child be aborted, the man is charged with involuntary manslaughter because he is responsible for his actions.


So, you think being forced into carrying an unwanted child to term should be punishment for having consensual sex?


If for some reason the woman's life is in danger, the choice of whether to continue the pregnancy or terminate is her responsibility, with input from the father if it was consensual.


Input? What kind of "input"?


If the child must be aborted, it is the responsibility of society as a whole to recognize the child's humanity and for government to provide a death certificate. A funeral should be arranged.


........The Law, according to Teikiatsu........




edit on 23-12-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 06:13 PM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu



If the child must be aborted, it is the responsibility of society as a whole to recognize the child's humanity and for government to provide a death certificate. A funeral should be arranged.



What if it was a spontaneous abortion, i.e., miscarriage? What about when a woman didn't even know she was pregnant and miscarried without even knowing she miscarried (in the toilet)? What about those children's humanity?

What about children who are born with horrible birth defects, who suffer every day of their miserable little lives because someone refused to get an abortion, while knowing about those defects? What about those children's humanity?

What about children who end up in the foster care system, being bounced from one home to another with no stability or consistent structure of home life? What about those children's humanity?



posted on Dec, 24 2016 @ 11:28 AM
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When I was a younger adult without children, I never understood why older adults who had raised children didn't really pay attention to my opinions. My opinions were never very controversial, but they just seemed to be ignored.

Then about 9-1/2 years ago I saw the first image of my child on a screen looking just like this. I had the exact same reaction, and I went from being a man-child to being responsible for the life of a new human being.

It was at that moment that I became a man, and my opinions carried far more meaning to those who also understood this responsibility. Two years later came his little brother.

Congratulations! It's a big step in a man's life, and the challenges are beyond overwhelming sometimes, but I'm raising kind, considerate, healthy, and happy children. I cannot overstate how important this has become to me, and how grateful I am to our Creator for this opportunity I've been given.

Your Friend Jenkinswasher

edit on 20161224 by Jenkinswasher because: fix a typo



posted on Dec, 24 2016 @ 05:53 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Teikiatsu




The majority of abortion are elective and you all know it.


So?


It's always nice to see a pro-abortion advocate continue to support the idea that terminating an innocent human life is okay, justified on convenience. Really restores faith in humanity.




No one can stop people from having sex, but if they are responsible and practice proper contraception, no problem!

But if they do get pregnant, then it is their responsibility to bring the child to term and either care for it or find someone else who will. It's not the kid's fault the parents were irresponsible.

If a man rapes a woman and impregnates her, that is his responsibility. This is one of the few times I can say I support an elective abortion, because it is the woman's only choice to avoid a pregnancy she did not voluntarily takes actions to put in motion. Should the child be aborted, the man is charged with involuntary manslaughter because he is responsible for his actions.


So, you think being forced into carrying an unwanted child to term should be punishment for having consensual sex?


I said responsibility. You said punishment.



If for some reason the woman's life is in danger, the choice of whether to continue the pregnancy or terminate is her responsibility, with input from the father if it was consensual.


Input? What kind of "input"?


The "Hey our actions started this pregnancy together, what do you think?" kind of input. Note that I did not say his input would overrule the mother's decision. But his responsibility for the hypothetical situation should be recognized. Thankfully, these situations are rare.



If the child must be aborted, it is the responsibility of society as a whole to recognize the child's humanity and for government to provide a death certificate. A funeral should be arranged.


........The Law, according to Teikiatsu........


Death certificates and funerals are illegal? Since when?



posted on Dec, 24 2016 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Teikiatsu



If the child must be aborted, it is the responsibility of society as a whole to recognize the child's humanity and for government to provide a death certificate. A funeral should be arranged.



What if it was a spontaneous abortion, i.e., miscarriage? What about when a woman didn't even know she was pregnant and miscarried without even knowing she miscarried (in the toilet)? What about those children's humanity?


Not sure where a death certificate can't apply there too.


What about children who are born with horrible birth defects, who suffer every day of their miserable little lives because someone refused to get an abortion, while knowing about those defects? What about those children's humanity?


Thankfully it is extremely rare. Do those defects make them any less human?


What about children who end up in the foster care system, being bounced from one home to another with no stability or consistent structure of home life? What about those children's humanity?


Did you miss the part where I said "But if they [were consensual and still] do get pregnant, then it is their responsibility to bring the child to term and either care for it or find someone else who will. It's not the kid's fault the parents were irresponsible." ?



posted on Dec, 24 2016 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu




It's always nice to see a pro-abortion advocate continue to support the idea that terminating an innocent human life is okay, justified on convenience. Really restores faith in humanity.


I don't think anyone, except some die hard Catholic chauvenists, wants to ban abortion to save the life of a woman. So, in these types of discussions, why do you always feign surprise, shock and horror every time someone defends to current status quo, which is a woman's right to choose to have an abortion for whatever reason she deems fit?



I said responsibility. You said punishment.


One can also take responsibility by opting to abort. Carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term, only to hand it over to some stranger doesn't seem responsible to me.

You said that you approve of, in your words, murdering a sacred human life, if it wasn't the unwanted pregnancy wasn't the result of woman's choice to have sex in the first place, in other words, rape. But, if she finds herself with an unwanted pregnancy by accident, according to you, then she MUST carry that unwanted pregnancy to term, in other words, as some kind of a punishment for her consensual dalliance with pleasure.



The "Hey our actions started this pregnancy together, what do you think?" kind of input. Note that I did not say his input would overrule the mother's decision.


Then why, in a life or death situation, would the sperm donor's input be legally required in the first place?



Death certificates and funerals are illegal? Since when?


Since Death Certificates are only issued after Live Birth Certificates. That's when.


edit on 24-12-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)



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