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Zero Emission Power Plants Coming Next Year

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posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 06:49 AM
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Misleading headline. It's not zero emission, it produces excess CO2 which will then have to be pumped underground.

From the OP

The excess CO2 is a pipeline-ready CO2 byproduct, which will be supplied to third parties for enhanced oil recovery (EOR) or sequestered underground.


They've been working on carbon capture and storage for ages.




posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: JimTSpock


originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
There are a couple moving part here. First is supercritical CO2 creation to turn a new, smaller, cheap turbine. Second is the closed-loop aspect where gas is burned with oxygen to create the CO2 for the first part which keeps it from the atmosphere (where it does it's nasty "global warming" dance).


Yeah, corrected that a page later. It was too late for a title change. Yes, the demo power plant does create CO2 that is used. After use it "pipeline" ready (their term, not mine) which can be any use not just stored.

Here is an NBC news article on the Carbon XPrize where uses of CO2 are explored. I like what the Opus 12 guys are doing and using oxygen, hydrogen, and CO2 to make various chemicals and pre-cursors. As the article states, all uses will probably be done depending on what product is needed or is sellable.

NBCnews.com, Jan. 18, 2017 - How the Carbon XPrize Is Turning Airborne Trash Into Treasure.



posted on Jan, 19 2017 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: JimTSpock


Misleading headline. It's not zero emission, it produces excess CO2 which will then have to be pumped underground.
They've been working on carbon capture and storage for ages.

Correct, more often than not, on the taxpayers dime.


Canada’s Economic Action Plan invests $1 billion for clean energy research and demonstration projects, including $650 million for large-scale carbon capture and storage projects.

Inexpensive energy should be the goal. If these processes were economical in any way shape or form, industry would be building them with their own dollars. Instead we see more corporate welfare during a period of huge job losses in the energy industry.



posted on Feb, 9 2017 @ 04:52 PM
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Researchers have developed a type of rechargeable battery called a flow cell that can be recharged with a water-based solution containing dissolved carbon dioxide (CO2) emitted from fossil fuel power plants. ...
...
In order to harness the potential energy in this concentration difference, the researchers first dissolved CO2 gas and ambient air in separate containers of an aqueous solution, in a process called sparging. At the end of this process, the CO2-sparged solution forms bicarbonate ions, which give it a lower pH of 7.7 compared to the air-sparged solution, which has a pH of 9.4.

After sparging, the researchers injected each solution into one of two channels in a flow cell, creating a pH gradient in the cell. The flow cell has electrodes on opposite sides of the two channels, along with a semi-porous membrane between the two channels that prevents instant mixing while still allowing ions to pass through. Due to the pH difference between the two solutions, various ions pass through the membrane, creating a voltage difference between the two electrodes and causing electrons to flow along a wire connecting the electrodes.

After the flow cell is discharged, it can be recharged again by switching the channels that the solutions flow through. By switching the solution that flows over each electrode, the charging mechanism is reversed so that the electrons flow in the opposite direction. Tests showed that the cell maintains its performance over 50 cycles of alternating solutions.

Phys.org, Feb. 9, 2017 - Battery can be recharged with carbon dioxide.

So there is another possible use of excess generated CO2 that can be done. Their idea is to use current power plant emissions. But they can do the same with a closed-cycle system and get double duty from CO2 generated.

The idea similar to a flow battery but this uses pH differences to create ion flow. They too are making bicarbonate ions but they do not need the baking soda so they leave it suspended in solution (the upcycling plant in India). Gee, that is three threads of mine right there: zero emission plant (sorry if that name misled anybody), flow battery, and India plant upcycling CO2. Now they have to see if this scales up to industrial sizes.

Funny, "sparging" is what it is called when you rinse your grains when making beer!
edit on 9-2-2017 by TEOTWAWKIAIFF because: spelling



posted on Feb, 22 2017 @ 04:24 PM
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Nice reads on the Demo Power Plant of OP


The Allam Cycle doesn’t utilize steam to create electricity. Instead, CO2 under pressure and in a supercritical state spins the turbines powering the generators. Combustion adds CO2 to keep the process going, and any excess is sent into a pipeline.

NetPower, 8 Rivers’ portfolio company constructing the first Allam Cycle plant [Texas demo plant from OP], describes the technology as truly clean, saying plants that utilize the Allam Cycle are able to “inherently eliminate all air emissions.” That means no particulate matter, mercury, nitrogen oxides, or sulfur oxides either. Plus, Allam’s technology can generate electricity at the same six cents per kilowatt-hour as other gas-fired turbines.

Inhabitat.com, Feb. 22, 2017 – Groundbreaking technology affordably captures CO2 from fossil fuel plants.

Some of the quotes are from a Forbes article. It is a nice read too. They talk to the guy (Allam) and there is a nice history. Basically he worked on carbon capture up until the 19070’s when he realized that it was not feasible. He gave up until supercritical CO-2 started being thought of to turn a turbine entered the picture! Then he joined back in. Some of the quotes come from here, like…


A full-size Net Power plant will generate 300MW and 800,000 tons of CO2 per year and cost around $300 million to build. "The plan is to build these in oil regions, then transport the power," says Daniel McCarthy, head of tech investments at CB&I. "If you can generate power without carbon dioxide and with no economic penalty versus existing technology, why wouldn't you do that?" It'll take a few months of operation before Net Power can prove the stability of the cycle. Allam predicts his invention will soon sell itself: "In a year we will know for sure."

Forbes.com, Feb. 21, 2017 – Revolutionary Power Plant Captures All Its Carbon Emissions, At No Extra Cost.

First, it is nice to see numbers as far as power generation goes $ 0.06 per kW/h and how much a power plant would cost. US$ 300 million for 300 MW, so… a million per MW does not seem like a lot of money. And you keep 800,000 tons of CO2 out of the atmosphere.

I still have not seen anything other than some green group basically saying, “You’ll shoot your eye out kid!” as far as dangers of S-CO2 go ("it might explode if it escapes the containment container!).

Both are good reads if you tried to follow how this works and still are slightly confused. The Forbes article is longer.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 05:55 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

I was reading about another CO2 capture unit that is also in Texas.


Cost overruns at the Kemper plant [in Miss.] forced its owner, Southern Company, to raise electricity rates in Mississippi, drawing the ire of state residents. NRG doesn’t have that option, because in Texas’s deregulated electricity market, customers can simply switch to a cheaper competitor.

“There’s plenty of technology out there for capturing CO2, but doing it in a way that doesn’t affect the cost of electricity is the issue,” said NRG vice president for development David Greeson, who oversaw the construction of Petra Nova. “Everything NRG does is subject to competitive customer choice. If we raise our costs, consumers are going to choose someone else.”
...
According to NRG, the plant is currently capturing over ninety percent of the carbon released by the power plant’s flue gas—about 5,200 tons of CO2 per day. That CO2 is being piped to the West Ranch Oil Field, where it’s being used to recover oil left behind from previous drilling, after which the CO2 is permanently sequestered underground. Although Hilcorp hasn’t released figures for the field’s current productivity, it aims to produce around 15,000 barrels a day at full capacity.

Texasmonthly.om, Feb. 27, 2017 - A Texas Energy Company Offers a Glimpse of What Carbon Capture Could Look Like.

The company is NRG Energy and back in 2010 they laid out a plan to bolt onto their flue stack a carbon capture device. It came online right at the end of the year. This tech can be done. It should be done.

The closed-cycle demo plant cannot shift the cost off to their customers because their customers would leave. So that is one way this could work (supercritical CO2 turbine and a closed-cycle power plant), no net increase in costs. And if the power company can notice some profit from their excess CO2 it become like NRG Energy guys getting excess oil in return.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 06:08 PM
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originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: lordcomac

in other words a "global warming timebomb"


This is really cool. In 20 years or so when solar, wind and this are all market competitive life will be pretty cool and green. once energy is nearly free, and time becomes the major limiting factor, we will be in a weird different world.


We're so close right now. I don't think it will be 20 years. Solar is competitive. The Solar Panels on my house give me nearly 95% of the power I generate, I would say 80% of the time. The problem is Nevada Power raises their rates to compensate. The problem isn't technology but policy.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 06:16 PM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: lordcomac

in other words a "global warming timebomb"


This is really cool. In 20 years or so when solar, wind and this are all market competitive life will be pretty cool and green. once energy is nearly free, and time becomes the major limiting factor, we will be in a weird different world.


We're so close right now. I don't think it will be 20 years. Solar is competitive. The Solar Panels on my house give me nearly 95% of the power I generate, I would say 80% of the time. The problem is Nevada Power raises their rates to compensate. The problem isn't technology but policy.


How long will it take for the solar panels to pay themselves off?



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: D8Tee

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: lordcomac

in other words a "global warming timebomb"


This is really cool. In 20 years or so when solar, wind and this are all market competitive life will be pretty cool and green. once energy is nearly free, and time becomes the major limiting factor, we will be in a weird different world.


We're so close right now. I don't think it will be 20 years. Solar is competitive. The Solar Panels on my house give me nearly 95% of the power I generate, I would say 80% of the time. The problem is Nevada Power raises their rates to compensate. The problem isn't technology but policy.


How long will it take for the solar panels to pay themselves off?


I've got a lease so it was no money down and it's a selling point for a lot of people adding value to my house. It's really a win win situation.

The funny thing is that the month after they were installed we were told that solar technology has already advanced to the point that now they could put up half the amount of panels for the same output. That's probably half the price already. in 5 years that will be halved in both hardware needed and price again.



posted on Mar, 14 2017 @ 06:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: D8Tee

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: lordcomac

in other words a "global warming timebomb"


This is really cool. In 20 years or so when solar, wind and this are all market competitive life will be pretty cool and green. once energy is nearly free, and time becomes the major limiting factor, we will be in a weird different world.


We're so close right now. I don't think it will be 20 years. Solar is competitive. The Solar Panels on my house give me nearly 95% of the power I generate, I would say 80% of the time. The problem is Nevada Power raises their rates to compensate. The problem isn't technology but policy.


How long will it take for the solar panels to pay themselves off?


I've got a lease so it was no money down and it's a selling point for a lot of people adding value to my house. It's really a win win situation.

The funny thing is that the month after they were installed we were told that solar technology has already advanced to the point that now they could put up half the amount of panels for the same output. That's probably half the price already. in 5 years that will be halved in both hardware needed and price again.

Are you saving money with the solar panels?
What are the terms of the lease.
Are there government subsidies involved?



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