The left is pissing me off.

Seriously. I'm not a right wing person, nor an alt right nor even a Republican - I'm mostly libertarian and lean left on some social issues.

That being said, people that identify as Democrat, liberal and such are really starting to get to me. I've always tried to advocate tolerance and acceptance and embracing others and realizing they are human beings too.. But sometimes people just go to far.

To try to reject the election results, to do all they can to get electoral votes to change sides, to ruin Sanders campaign when he was the only genuinely decent person running, to have sketchy meetings with people in high positions while dealing with legal processes, to ignore huge amounts of data showing rampant corruption spreading through their party...

These are not just common every day errors, these really require a lack of brain power joined with a self righteous mentality.

Now, don't get me wrong. Far right people make me mad just as much, those that think trickle down economics is a principle that is true and works, those that hold their religious belief so high they believe it should be law - I'm not okay with these things.

But, that's not whats currently happening. The left is being shown as insanely corrupt, immoral, above the law, currently attempting to change who becomes president because a hissy fit is more important than our representative democracy - and the citizens themselves shut their eyes and ignore all crimes and all manner of immoral, unethical, unacceptable actions of those that represent their party while actively rejecting the will of the huge amount of Americans who practiced their freedom to vote for the president they wanted to represent them.

Anyways, I could go on but I will stop here. As a reminder I am not pretending that those on the right are any better in some cases, this post is more just addressing the current ongoing situations more than anything.

-deadlyhope

This is one of those threads which encourage me to never visit ATS/Political Section(even in Rants) again.

There is a controversial debate, and by demanding that one side simply "shut TF up!" this is going straight into a anti-democratical territory.

Don't you remember the last election?
And the one before? And so on?

When every time there was this "WE DIDN'T LOSE! WE CAN'T LOSE!" by the losers of said election happened?

Asking for a recount - undemocratical?
Asking some people to follow their own code of morals about what is best for the country - wrong, too?

Sit down, we all have to accept the vote of about 62.8 million people (for Mr. Trump) over 65.4 million people (for Mrs. Clinton). It is a broken system and seemingly noone in charge wants to change that.

The best thing to do with whining children like the democrats is to ignore them. Eventually they will crawl back into the cess pit from which they came until the next election cycle. All they want is to feel like they're important to some mythical cause they made up when they got offended by something.

Keep egging them on and they will consume everything, even by cannibalizing themselves to complete their agendas.

Hey fellow Libertarian, I feel ya. The past 2 years have been nothing short of a circus attraction, and boy are they delivering. Both standard sides are full of petulant little asshats who can't see further than the tip of their own noses. Most, if not all, of us Third Partiers can all probably agree it's like watching the pint-sized hierarchy being hashed out at a Children's table at a gathering. And like that little kids' table, it's not getting them anywhere.

Watching the tit for tat as the "outside observers" gives us a unique objective perspective, though. And at least we actually have a few here and there this time from both ends who are observing just as objectively. Necessary change comes with self reflection, so hopefully this goes somewhere north of the toilet bowl socially by the next election.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
This is one of those threads which encourage me to never visit ATS/Political Section(even in Rants) again.

There is a controversial debate, and by demanding that one side simply "shut TF up!" this is going straight into a anti-democratical territory.

Don't you remember the last election?
And the one before? And so on?

When every time there was this "WE DIDN'T LOSE! WE CAN'T LOSE!" by the losers of said election happened?

Asking for a recount - undemocratical?
Asking some people to follow their own code of morals about what is best for the country - wrong, too?

Sit down, we all have to accept the vote of about 62.8 million people (for Mr. Trump) over 65.4 million people (for Mrs. Clinton). It is a broken system and seemingly noone in charge wants to change that.

First : There is no Political Section in Rants
Second : Then dont . No one forces me to look at any thread. I assume you are the same.
Third : This is the first Presidential Election that I can remember (And I can remember 10 at least) that anyone has even contested an election . (Except Gore/Bush and it wasnt near this bad)

So now , what were you saying ?

Blame your system not just the left (trump wanted to also before he won). The fact is the electoral college folk have sworn ab oath to go with what they feel right.
Oh and the right are as bad just you don't like to admit it.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

The problem the OP is bringing up that you are ignoring while attacking him is:

1. The rioting that went on for a week after the election that the Democrats encouraged instead of condemning or even trying to calm down.

2. The fact there was no evidence to meet the State's requirements to have a reason to hold a recount in the states where recounts occurred.

3. The blatant ignoring of the corruption exposed by the hacking of the DNC in favor of generating a boogyman to blame for the hacking then spinning it to claim that the election was hacked instead of a political party.

4. While spouting non stop 24/7 about the hacking of the DNC influencing the election (the votes in election were not hacked) the media completely ignores being caught red handed ATTEMPTING TO INFLUENCE THE ELECTION IN FAVOR OF CLINTON.

5. Clinton won the popular vote by 2.8 million. Almost exclusively because of California, a state with a population of 10 million illegal immigrants who were all but encouraged by the President to vote for Clinton.

I could go on.

So instead of knee jerk attacking the messenger, maybe address the issues he brought up.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: ManFromEurope

The problem the OP is bringing up that you are ignoring while attacking him is:

1. The rioting that went on for a week after the election that the Democrats encouraged instead of condemning or even trying to calm down.

2. The fact there was no evidence to meet the State's requirements to have a reason to hold a recount in the states where recounts occurred.

3. The blatant ignoring of the corruption exposed by the hacking of the DNC in favor of generating a boogyman to blame for the hacking then spinning it to claim that the election was hacked instead of a political party.

4. While spouting non stop 24/7 about the hacking of the DNC influencing the election (the votes in election were not hacked) the media completely ignores being caught red handed ATTEMPTING TO INFLUENCE THE ELECTION IN FAVOR OF CLINTON.

5. Clinton won the popular vote by 2.8 million. Almost exclusively because of California, a state with a population of 10 million illegal immigrants who were all but encouraged by the President to vote for Clinton.

I could go on.

So instead of knee jerk attacking the messenger, maybe address the issues he brought up.

Excellent comment, this needs to be posted on flyers everywhere, maybe people would get a clue.

a reply to: deadlyhope
If it's any consolation, Obama almost certainly agrees with you. On Friday, he was looking weary and sick of the whole business. He evaded any opportunities to get controversial about the result. When they tried to pin him down to a comment on the Electoral College, his response was "I'm not going to wade into that issue". His attitude was "I'm going to hold things together until Trump is inaugurated, and then I'm out of here".

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: ManFromEurope

The problem the OP is bringing up that you are ignoring while attacking him is:

1. The rioting that went on for a week after the election that the Democrats encouraged instead of condemning or even trying to calm down.

Google "riots election 2012", there were plenty. Try other elections, they work, too.

2. The fact there was no evidence to meet the State's requirements to have a reason to hold a recount in the states where recounts occurred.

Every candidate can want to have a recount, right? On behave of even the slightest hint of wrong-doings? Because democracy, every votes count, etc.

3. The blatant ignoring of the corruption exposed by the hacking of the DNC in favor of generating a boogyman to blame for the hacking then spinning it to claim that the election was hacked instead of a political party.

This did not concern the votings. Clear up your mind, you let yourself being led to wrong conclusions.

4. While spouting non stop 24/7 about the hacking of the DNC influencing the election (the votes in election were not hacked) the media completely ignores being caught red handed ATTEMPTING TO INFLUENCE THE ELECTION IN FAVOR OF CLINTON.

See above. We are not talking about some fake-news-spouting hate-blogger. See, this is why I usually despise taking action in currenct political rants - people coming up with points out of the blue just to let their not-so-impressive points vanish in word-fog.

5. Clinton won the popular vote by 2.8 million. Almost exclusively because of California, a state with a population of 10 million illegal immigrants who were all but encouraged by the President to vote for Clinton.

See above. A true point (Clinton won the votes), followed by interpretion as if I said anything about "illegal votes", or that illegal votes would be more valuable than "true american" votes. This is stupid. And boring. If you feel depreciated by a candidate who won the electorials but not the number of people, you should think about that - that the voting system itself is broken.
Any fantasy about "millions of illegals voting" is just following an agenda from some people who like to heat their discussions to GET MORE CLICKS. Bring up evidence, but hey, even Mr. Trump is very, very quiet about it, right?

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Google "riots election 2012", there were plenty. Try other elections, they work, too.

Plenty of google results for just about anything you search, 0 actual riots, unless you are referring to socialist utopian paradise Europe.

Every candidate can want to have a recount, right? On behave of even the slightest hint of wrong-doings? Because democracy, every votes count, etc.

People want lots of things, losers would rather be winners, and America is not a democracy. You seem to be taking the primitive values of Europe and applying them to the Greatest Nation in the World.

This did not concern the votings. Clear up your mind, you let yourself being led to wrong conclusions.

There is no way to hack the elections. Sure, there was massive fraud in democrat strongholds giving Hillary to popular vote, but democrats committing widespread election and voter fraud is normal.

Media influences and manipulates the masses, especially when millions of people believe the news is honest. In fact, MSM had more influence 'hacking the elections' by constantly lying about how great Hillary was and ignoring her crimes.

Voting system does have a huge flaw, that is the absence of Voter ID requirements in democrat strongholds.

Foreign devils residing in California should not decide elections in America, which is why American electoral system is superior to primitive European 'democratic socialism'.

I am a Democrat, and I find some of the things you listed off to be things that annoy me as well. For one thing, I choose to like specific Democrats less who support things like ruining Bernie Sanders. For another, Republicans usually bother me more. Issues like their stance on gay marriage, or how they don't want to help the poor, how they refuse to accept the facts of climate change - these annoy me.

Lately, Republicans have been supporting whatever Trump says on his tweets even if it doesn't make any sense. For example, when Trump tweeted that the Chinese should keep the underwater drone they stole, top Republicans agreed with him even though it makes more sense for them to give it back. The fact that Russia was hacking both the Democrats and the Republicans prior to the election doesn't bother Trump one bit - he doesn't even believe it, even though both the C.I.A. and the F.B.I. came to that conclusion. Republicans such as McCain are thankfully seeing how this is a national security issue.

I'm sure there are strengths and weaknesses on both sides of the isle.

a reply to: GodEmperor

The Democrats keep saying that Russia hacked the elections, but what actually happened was they influenced the elections by hacking into DNC e-mails and releasing them through Wikileaks. This still counts as influencing the election through hacking even though the actual results weren't manipulated.

Also, although there is proof that Russia "hacked" the U.S. elections, there is no proof that Democrats resorted to massive fraud tactics to gain the popular vote. In fact, people who have investigated this have found little evidence of this when they checked.

There is absolutely no proof that millions of illegal immigrants voted for Clinton, and I don't believe that statement to begin with.

I wonder when the next recession will come this time. It always happens when republicans are making the decisions.

a reply to: deadlyhope


Before the election and in vogue for some years before the simple word "hate" has been honed into a weapon to use against mostly the average, voting American because as average people, they have their likes and dislikes and opinions on things. The prime users of the word hate to identify the deplorables were the superior folk, high above the despised masses.

Then happens the upset of the election and we find the unmasking of the true purveyors of the hate. So far, it has been constant, broad-streamed and loud.

I can only wonder, will there come a time when the left stops their ranting, takes a collective deep breath and reviews their ideology as being no better than the hate label they have attached to every one they didn't agree with? I doubt it.

I fear the rebuilding of an even stronger machine of hate, a fascist operation that eventually will come back to rule the land with an iron hand with a "YOU WILL ACCEPT" mandate across the board. What is at state, of course, is the most cherished aspect of every individual, free will.

a reply to: deadlyhope

What do you mean by the left?

Do you mean Hillary and her many, many backers and hangers on? If so, you seem to be under a misapprehension. The problem with that woman, is that she is not left wing at all. She is as close to being right wing as you can get, without actually crossing the room entirely.

The left are not represented in government, and never have been. Obama does not count. Droning people, failing to prevent the continuation of mass surveillance initiatives, failing to protect the liberty, the freedom and the privacy of the citizenry, failing to protect the internet from predatory conglomerates... no, he does not count.

You know what the real left are busy doing, what they have always been busy doing? Running not for profits and charities that try like hell to fill the gap when capitalism leaves entire generations behind. Working at the counter of soup kitchens, despite being half starved themselves and dog tired from working their regular jobs. Trying to educate their children better than the peons who teach them can, trying to keep them off the streets and out of trouble. Teaching them real skills, like how to fix a broken fuel line, how to fit a new tyre rather than relying on the guy in the shop to do it.

The real left are poor, tired, hungry, but they are strong. They can survive on little if necessary, and will share what little they have with everyone around them, not because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, but because its the damned well right thing to do. They rely on one another, form proper communities, form groups to protect their neighborhoods from corporate greed, whether that be by landlords who keep inadequate premises and never get forced to maintain or relinquish the deeds to those premises, or whether it be by predatory companies looking to price people out of their homes for developments that will cost the Earth, or from the government itself, they are there, feeding the homeless, treating the sick even if they cannot pay for it, arranging housing for those who cannot see to it themselves, running shelters for the mentally ill...

You never see their names, you never hear their voices, because they represent those no one gives a damn about. Their stories are at the back of the paper, after the doom porn and the propaganda, if they are in those pages at all. They seek no glory, they wish no fame, they want only to live under a government which provides more than it takes, and does not allow innocent people to suffer illness because they cannot afford to be treated, does not permit people to starve to death, just because they have not been as lucky as others, a government which does not bail out banks, but does bail out citizens. And regardless of the bunkum to the contrary, that IS a reality in America. There ARE people who are smart, hard working and capable, working three crappy jobs and living out of their cars, because they just were not lucky. There are people living in tents and hastily cobbled together hovels, in DROVES, not because they were greedy, but because they followed a dream they were fed which did not exist, told they lived in a country which valued them, but which actually cares not a bit for them, or their families.

The DNC are not the left. Hillary is not the left. None of the people you have a real problem with are ACTUALLY on, or representing for, the left. The left is not PERMITTED to be represented in America, and never has been, and we all know why. Its because the left are anti-MIC, anti-corporate, anti-war and pro-humanity. They are not blinded by nationalism, they are not infected with phobia, they treat people kindly and well, even with scant resources, and these are people therefore, who cannot be easily led around by the nose, cannot be fooled into thinking their government has their best interests at heart, cannot accept hegemony because they know the dangers it creates, and who are utterly devoted to an ideal which brings everyone together, instead of forcing them apart, and that, that is not a movement that can be permitted to gain steam in America. The management simply will not permit it.

a reply to: deadlyhope

What get's me about Democrats,when you give them info regarding one of their party members doing criminal activity's they say"So Trump's a racist",they brush facts away to appease themselves,the world is going down the proverbial crapper

a reply to: ManFromEurope

"Broken system".

Let's take California out of the equation for both candidates and see what happens.




This is exactly why the electoral college exists, so one state doesn't drown out the voices of the entire country. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand this.

If the election was decided by popular vote, both candidates would have campaigned differently. So this is a moot point.

a reply to: GodEmperor

Won't work- if it's not on twitter or fb, it doesn't exist to these idiots. They only believe Google and mom.....

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Mob rule no workie in USA