Undeniable proof that Bush has lied about the war on terror and Iraq.

[quoteI am not kidfinger,,,, and what is wrong with Foxnews. They give the news that is not tainted by liberal news agencies.

Yes, I know you're not Kidfinger. Kidfinger started the thread...and your answer just brings home the fact that although there is undeniable proof that BushCo. lied, it is because of a majority of people like you that they will get away with it. Because you have your heads in the sand, don't really want to know the truth because its inconvenient. And yes, depend on the likes of Fox News to tell you what's going on in the world.

Anyone who has to ask what's wrong with Fox News is brainwashed by it. Anyone who needs the likes of Fox News to tell them what's going on in the world, instead of looking for themselves with an open mind and an open heart is brainwashed.




[edit on 30/1/05 by AlwaysLearning]

Yes, I know you're not Kidfinger. Your answer brings home the fact that although there is undeniable proof that BushCo. lied, its is because of a majority of people like you that will allow them to get away with it. Because you have your heads in the sand, don't want to know the truth. And yes, depend on the likes of Fox News to tell you what's going on in the world, instead of looking for yourself with an open mind and an open heart.

I sure hope that you have never expressed any of your views on this subject to any of our troops who are putting their lives on the line daily so that people like you have the liberty to slander our president.

Originally posted by deesw

I sure hope that you have never expressed any of your views on this subject to any of our troops who are putting their lives on the line daily so that people like you have the liberty to slander our president.

Not my soldiers, nor my President. Your President put the lives of your soldiers on the line for a pile of lies. Its all out there, son, just go look for it.

I support your troops, though its not my country. They were duped like everyone else was.

all out there, son, just go look for it.

If he's not your president, and this is not your country, and your country is not being accected by our war, then why do you even have an opinion?

Originally posted by deesw

all out there, son, just go look for it.

If he's not your president, and this is not your country, and your country is not being accected by our war, then why do you even have an opinion?

When Bush lies and it affects globally, then every world citizen has th right to an opinion. Bush is bringing this generation closer to a global war then we have ever been before. That in itself is reason enough for the world to keep a close eye on Bush and how he is abusing his power.

Originally posted by deesw
If he's not your president, and this is not your country, and your country is not being accected by our war, then why do you even have an opinion?

Again, its ignorance like yours that breeds contempt for the United States of America. The think the world is not entitled to an opinion because the USofA is so great and always does the right thing by everyone? I guess according to you, anyone who doesn't like it should just "SHUTUP" like O'Reilly is so fond of saying.

I feel sorry for you my friend.

Bush is bringing this generation closer to a global war then we have ever been before. That in itself is reason enough for the world to keep a close eye on Bush and how he is abusing his power.

If we go to war, we go to war, how is war an abuse of power. I was in Desert Storm, don't tell me we fight wars for no reason,,,, I saw first hand what Saddam did to his people. I would imagine you've never been in war or even in the military for that matter. Wars are not fought fo no reason.

Originally posted by deesw


If we go to war, we go to war, how is war an abuse of power. I was in Desert Storm, don't tell me we fight wars for no reason,,,, I saw first hand what Saddam did to his people. I would imagine you've never been in war or even in the military for that matter. Wars are not fought fo no reason.

First off, you cant play the Gulf War card on me because I was there as well. I know what kind of person he was from first hand experience. So DONT try and tell me that I dont have a clue about this. You will be sorely mistaken. I know wars are not fought for no reason. Bush just lied about the reasons he went to war.

Originally posted by deesw
If we go to war, we go to war, how is war an abuse of power. I was in Desert Storm, don't tell me we fight wars for no reason,,,, I saw first hand what Saddam did to his people. I would imagine you've never been in war or even in the military for that matter. Wars are not fought fo no reason.

Going to war under false pretenses is a huge abuse of power. This war was never about WMD...it was just the lie told to justify all to Americans. In reality it was all about regime change and getting the US in the middle east where it will stay under a puppet Iraqi government. It was all about oil and making tons of money for BushCo/Halliburton et al. And the sacrifice? 1,300 soldiers todate....9 gravely injured and disabled for life for every one that dies. Not to mention the Iraqi body count thus far.

If you want to talk about Saddam's treatment of his people okay, but then you should also talk about the House of Saud's treatment of its people. Shouldn't the US also be invading Saudia Arabia too if we really talking about liberating repressed peoples?

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

If you want to talk about Saddam's treatment of his people okay, but then you should also talk about the House of Saud's treatment of its people. Shouldn't the US also be invading Saudia Arabia too if we really talking about liberating repressed peoples?

Not to mention North Korea, China, Rowanda, and the many other country's that have really crappy human rights issues.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Not to mention North Korea, China, Rowanda, and the many other country's that have really crappy human rights issues.

Of course, people in so many areas of the world suffer and are not free. But because BushCo are such hyprocrites I really had to make example of the US's relations with Saudi Arabia.

If you want to talk about Saddam's treatment of his people okay, but then you should also talk about the House of Saud's treatment of its people. Shouldn't the US also be invading Saudia Arabia too if we really talking about liberating repressed peoples?

We probably would go there, but the liberals in this country keep on crying about it.

The Bush hypocracy is something that i just dont understand. You would think that Bush would have realized that we would have figured out he lied to us and used a better excuse than one that was going to make him look more like a hypocrite then he already was. I mean, the first deception about WMD was hypocritical because by his logic, we should have invaded about 18 other countries by now. Then when he switched his excuse for invasion to human rights, he became even more of a hypocrite because it is cheaper to take away freedoms than it is to build WMD. And this is just what many nations do.

Originally posted by deesw



We probably would go there, but the liberals in this country keep on crying about it.

Agian with the berating? How old are you?

The Liberals are NOT crying about invading Saudi Arabia. It is Bush and his cohorts who are turning a blind eye to the house of Saud. Not the Liberals. Bush makes more money from Saudi Arabia and middle eastern countries in general than he makes here in America. Its not the Liberals bud, its the president. And please, next time you reply, try and do so without being childish.

[edit on 1/30/05 by Kidfinger]

Originally posted by deesw
We probably would go there, but the liberals in this country keep on crying about it.

Okay, now you're just being annoying and bating me. I won't dignify so stupid a statement with a response.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
The Bush hypocracy is something that i just dont understand.

He...they are laughing in the face of Americans and the world....and getting away with it.

And its just the beginning.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

He...they are laughing in the face of Americans and the world....and getting away with it.

Hopefully with enough outcry and education, we can laugh back at him. Bush needs to realiz that his words are embroidered within our history. Every thing he says will be recorded. IT would be in his best intrest to tell the truth as it is instead of falsifying the truth to fit his means.

[edit on 1/30/05 by Kidfinger]

Okay, now you're just being annoying and bating me. I won't dignify so stupid a statement with a response

So now I'm stupid huh?

Originally posted by deesw

Okay, now you're just being annoying and bating me. I won't dignify so stupid a statement with a response

So now I'm stupid huh?

No, you are not stupid. You just post a reply without thinking it through. I mean, if this is all you can come up with, it would seem that you have no argument here.

There Is No Such Thing As "Undeniable Proof"

Thanks to kidfinger for sponsoring a spirited thread, but I think it is mislabeled, and that the thread's contents are proof enough of that.

The truth is that anything can be denied, and people do it here all the time. It's as sure as the rising and setting of the sun, the flow of the tides and the changing of the seasons.

So while the premise of this thread is ambitious, it is ultimately doomed to failure simply because it sets out to do something that cannot be done.

People deny there was a Holocaust, that there was ever a person named "Jesus", that animals evolve, heck, there are even people who insist with all sincerity that the earth is flat -- or that it is hollow.

You name it, there will always be somebody out there who will deny it. We see plenty of that on ATS, and in this thread.

So did Bush lie about why we should invade Iraq? I honestly don't know. I am also honest enough to admit it.

Am I being somebody's dupe because I accept the fact that I don't know something I cannot possibly know?

I think it's just the opposite: once I decide I am absolutely, positively right and unassailably certain about anything, I have successfully duped myself.

No shortage of self-assured omniscience in this thread, but I see nothing “undeniable”.

Rather, I see a lot of people publicly denying their own uncertainty, and doing themselves discredit by doing so.

So does that mean we should not discuss this topic? Definitely not – quite the contrary, in fact. It is a very important and worthwhile topic to discuss until we're blue in the face.

But if by “discussion” we mean puffing, posing and blustering in a contest of egos, I don't consider that much of a discussion.

It's possible to talk about things that are not certain. Arguably, every topic falls into that category. But if a debate does not allow for the possibility that one or more participants may be mistaken in their views, I cannot see the point of bothering with it at all, since no change will come of it.

I personally don't think Bush was at all forthcoming about the real reasons for the U.S. Invasion of Iraq, but I don't see any worthwhile revelations here or anything “undeniable”, just shouting from one entrenched camp to another -- the echoes of information warfare on the modern psychological battlefield.