Take the nazi rhetoric like a candy put it in your own mouth, chew on it so it can make more sense to you, we are talking now not then.

If you want to compare Bush to nazi regime is up to you no me.

Our loves ones are dying and fighting now this time this age.

Nazi is over and death and by the way Germany was and invader of other countries just like US is now.

Our soldiers are questioning their duty and that is now in this time and is just going to spread as our "God send" keeps wagging his "freedom" policies and keep wanting our soldiers to kill people in their own lands.

[edit on 27-1-2005 by marg6043]

That is to bad for this young man in this position. He should of thought about it more before signing the document to serve. But he made a choice as a man, does he take back his word now?
Some of you who never served throw stuff into the veterans faces every damn chance you can. Damn if we do and damn if we don't BS. Liberals have been barking up the tree for a long time about war and what we should do and don't. You have not figured out that even if we did not go to war, it would of come here, again and again. What will happen? Our finest who did not join will be in the fight, I can not depend on that. But I guess you do. To someone's comment about you try joining again. If I was asked I tried, I have a little problem. I have a disability that prevents me from going in taking your place. Have any of you helped a veteran, lately? Have you marched to Washington D.C. to help veterans get better care? Say to a veteran thank you? Many of you are so consumed in your views have ignored us. I do not see any of you doing anything for us at all. You talk and that is all you dol I will end this, remember: we earned the respect, not your pity or slander. For the other countries who bash America and the war, I could careless what you say. You live in fear, I do not.

GI WOLVES
American Veteran disabled

[edit on 27-1-2005 by GI_WOLVES]

[edit on 27-1-2005 by GI_WOLVES]

I am not in the military for just this reason. I fully understand the oath that is taken by our military to serve even when the going gets tough, but to what end. Are you telling me that a soldier is supposed to follow ANY order without question, period? I see that this particular person has served for 10 years now. I imagine the military 10 years ago were focusing on other objectives. If you join with good intentions in your heart and you see everything that you have fought for go down the drain and the very organization you swore your life to engaged in corrupt activities, doesn't your duty to humanity outweigh the oath taken by the individual? I am not trying to compare the current situation to WW2, but what if one of hitlers soldiers became disgusted with what he saw his fellow soldiers doing, and decided he wanted out. Wouldn't his fellow countrymen be crying for him to be court martialed and tried for going AWOL - even though morally and ethically he was right?

Thats what I never understood about the military. I understand the need for defence, and to stand up for people who aren't able to do it themselves, but when the military begins doing thigns that the individual considers wrong, his is to follow orders without question....or else. That lack of personal insight being allowed to influence your choices is the very reason that I would never join up. I could never stand to lose that much of myself.

I've seen first hand the "horrors of war", am a veteran with more than a little experience in combat. I've made the decision that the war is wrong, and won't fight again, much as Benderman has. I waited for my contract to end, and then got out, having fulfilled every commitment that I had made to my country. Honor, and morality need to go hand in hand.

This is the biggest load of crap i have ever seen. WTF is this guy doing? he joined to army to defend his country and he didnt think that would require him to kill people. First of all this people are very stupid- the Bible says "Thou shalt not kill" when directly translated to hebrew- it means to spill the innnocent blood. The INNOCENT blood- so obviously these people have mistranslated the Bible greatly and are very very retarded in their reasoning. Not to mention the BIble says you must honor your promises to people (contracts) This man should be ashamed of himself and should reconsider what he is doing.

Logan's Run that was filmed in Dallas, They had some of the newest ARCHITECTURE designed. They had all those glass buildings. The GOLD glass in some of the building's WINDOWs, actually had gold in them.
Some famous architect, just died that designed several in Dallas. He also did some BANK building in HOUSTON. Anyone know his name??

Originally posted by LogansRun
I am not in the military for just this reason. I fully understand the oath that is taken by our military to serve even when the going gets tough, but to what end. Are you telling me that a soldier is supposed to follow ANY order without question, period? I see that this particular person has served for 10 years now. I imagine the military 10 years ago were focusing on other objectives. If you join with good intentions in your heart and you see everything that you have fought for go down the drain and the very organization you swore your life to engaged in corrupt activities, doesn't your duty to humanity outweigh the oath taken by the individual? I am not trying to compare the current situation to WW2, but what if one of hitlers soldiers became disgusted with what he saw his fellow soldiers doing, and decided he wanted out. Wouldn't his fellow countrymen be crying for him to be court martialed and tried for going AWOL - even though morally and ethically he was right?

No, the solider would of been shot on the spot.

You cannot join an organisation like the Army, Navy or Airforce and then decide that you don't want to play anymore when asked to do a job that you don't agree with. There have been times that i have thought to myself " What the Hell am i doing here? Is what i am doing right? " But my obligation to myself and the men i served with always took priority. I would never follow an order that was clearly illegal. As far as i can see this Soldier has not been given an order that is illegal or been asked to commit an illegal act.
He has a duty and obligation to follow throu on the Oath he willingly took to serve.
Have we really fallen so low that a persons word means nothing anymore? That we can just turn our backs on a promise freely given? That we can let others die in our place because we don't want to live up to our responsibilities?
Is this really what we are becoming?
If it is, then i want no part of it.
Im am not saying that this Man is a Coward, but i believe he is wrong.

radagast nailed it. This POS needs to be court-martialed and run outta the service on a rail! Stinkin coward!!

How this moron could go home and face his family and friends, Ill never know. Well, he could always join the Canadian Army..(j/k all you canucks)


Maximu§

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by radagast
I'd court-marshall his butt. when he signed up, he was signing up to be an instrument of war. he was trained to kill and survive. what did he think it was, the boy scouts ?

did you serve ten years in the army?
were in fighting in the streets of iraqi cities?
did you see all the terrors of war?

i guess he did see all that.
and he decided to stop.
he has the right to choose, doesnt he?

People are asking how I can spend 10 years in the military and now want to get out, or how I can abandon the people that I have served with. I have to tell them that I saw the wrong way that I had been living and I needed to make some changes. Changes that will hopefully let me live a better life and allow me to be a better part of society.

no he DOESNT have the right. He should have read the fine print before going off on his moralistic crusade. He should save it untill he gets out then become a preacher. Hes a coward thats scared to go back and is grasping for a reason. He'd be better off if he shot himself in the foot or stomache. That would have a better chance than some bible quotes.

In closing, PUUUHLEASE

"Thou shalt not kill." After seeing the immorality of war firsthand, my husband has laid down his weapons to kill no more.

Why join the army again? try the Peace corps.

What greater defense of our Constitution is there?

The greater defense is that if you don't defend it. It will be no longer.

"Thou shalt not kill." We have heard it since childhood, but life, society, religious instruction all find a way to wrap a simple statement into myriad parables until the simple truth is unrecognizable, hidden in justifications, addenda, and codicils. Reality, the act of living it, not dramatizing it, not fantasizing it, not presuming its nature, just living it, gave us all we needed to unwrap the package and face the simple truth.

Even if you stand down and no longer kill, just for kicks, lets say 99.9999 of the population agrees....
the .00001 of them will kill you all.

My work has been taking care of people who are sick or aged so that when it is their time to die, it is with dignity. I saw the true nobility of a life well lived, and a death that was proud; a declaration of peace, and respect for life.

I think most people respect life itself.
It's the beliefs.
America is a bunch or rich lazy people, Any arab doesn't wear socks, an African is hunting an animal naked in the plains and if the UK didn't have Pubs, they'd have wasted away ages ago.
stop the hate.
DENY IGNORANCE.

I was going to go through the rest of the original post, but there really is no need.

Don't join the armed forces if you don't want to do what they tell you to do.
That means killing the "enemy", not knowing all the answers and screw the tear gas chamber in bootcamp...cause that sucks.

If you do not stand up for what you believe in, you better get used to believing in what everyone else tells you.

damn hippies.

I guess out of approximately 150,000 soldiers in Iraq, there could be a couple of cowards - and a bunch more people to promote them around here.

P.S. My stepson finishes Army basic training in 1 week. Where's he headed next, is unknown (by us) at this time.

[edit on 1/27/2005 by centurion1211]

centurion1211, I'm sure he'll be ok.
What are they training him to do?
( I retyped that line 5 times...what did he sign up for? what is he going in to do, what spec is he, is he going infantry....)
ended up with What's are they training him to do?

Originally posted by centurion1211
I guess out of approximately 150,000 soldiers in Iraq, there could be a couple of cowards - and a bunch more people to promote them around here.

P.S. My stepson finishes Army basic training in 1 week. Where's he headed next, is unknown (by us) at this time.

[edit on 1/27/2005 by centurion1211]

Hooorah! Tell him God speed and return home safely Centurion!

For some reason (known to him), he wanted to be in the quartermaster corps. Sounds safer than infantry, but I think those are the guys we keep hearing about driving in all the convoys in Iraq.

Many thanks for all the good wishes you all expressed.

[edit on 1/27/2005 by centurion1211]

Good luck to your boy centurion, I know he will make you proud...I don't think there really is a such thing as a safe-job anymore in the Army. REMF's as well as grunts are in danger.

again,
this is a tough dilemma.
i understand the meaning of duty when you join the army,
the meaning of oath you take,
and the meaning of the conctract you sign.
your a** belongs to the army core now!
your job is to follow orders, and do not question them.
if they are ordering you, as a soldier, to kill women and children,
you have but two choices:
-follow order and do what you are told
-ask yourself: "why do i have to kill innocent civilans? what happened to wars, where soldiers were fighting soldiers? i cant shoot an unarmed woman and her child!"

that was just an example, i am not saying that is what really happened.
but since many of the war veterans have replied to this post,
i think that they are the only ones, that know what he really saw and experienced. i was never fighting in a war, but war was here where live so i know how cruel and totally mad can a war be.

and when questioning of the authority starts, that means something is terribly wrong in the army. in the end all wars get out of control and people involved get either mad or become robots-walking killing machines without any emotions at all.

i say that everybody has the right to choose his own destiny.
and if this man, a war veteran, does not want to serve his country anymore,
them he shouldnt. he has choosen himself instead of "his" core. is that egoistic and selfish of him? is it anti-american? pro-terroist?
or is it just a anti-war statement,
saying i am not killing for you anymore?

if that means breaking certain military laws and regulations,
screw it!
as if the army is "following" all international conventions and laws in this war anyway! very egoisic of them. they can break the rules, but nobody else can.
yes well, they are the strongest military force in the world,
so i guess you will not "mess with them"...

so whatever your judgement over this situation is,
wheter you think this man should hang,
or if wheter you think this man should live his life how he chooses,
it is just a matter of personal opinion
and your personal view over this sitation.
i know theres a lot of people here,
which means alot of views and opinions.
if you want your opinion to be respected,
then respect everybody elses opinions!

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Well, I spent 11 1/2 years in the military myself and yes I am not proud of all the things that I have done

Then why did you do it ?
Please note that 'I was just following orders' was proved an insufficient defence during the Nuremberg trials and is just as invalid now.

Much has been said about the "oath" taken. to protect and serve.
So, no question about whether what they are asked to is right or wrong, as long as the Prez orders it. That's all well and good, I mean, it's not like they are killing Americans, just Arabs, and they don't matter.

Now, suppose the Prez institutes martial law and orders those same troops to shoot Americans, on US soil, simply because they oppose him.
Would that be ok too, because they are still ordered to do so by the Prez?
Those being ordered to fight must think for themselves instead of blindly following orders, especially in todays world of corporate-economic wars, where the victors are the boardroom boys.

By invading Iraq, how are they serving and protecting their country? They are serving the interests of an elite few and doing nothing at all to protect their country as no threat existed.

Originally posted by Souljah

i belive if more people in the world,
were thinking like that,
there would be less wars,
and less suffering.
even a single man can make a big change.

but

the american administration fails to realize,
that the needs of people should be served
before their own self-interests!

I think is the Sgt. prioritizing his own self interest. When your country calls you fight.

Weakness is given no respect on the battlefield - international stage ... the playground. The war in Iraq was the cheaper alternative to invading North Korea or Iran in both cost and human life. Saving future life and international stability in the long run.

[edit on 28-1-2005 by Vanguard]