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If God is all powerful he cannot be all good quote...

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posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:33 PM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: lostgirl

I mean, if there is a 'God' why do people assume He must be all powerful?

Most religious people belong to Abrahamic religions. The religious predicates of god's nature (omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence) as espoused by those faiths are inferred by its scripture.

Why do people assume scripture represents the truth of god's nature I have no idea.

I don't think people should assume a creator god exists to begin with. Further believing we apes understand the desires and commandments of such a being (should one exist) is the height of our arrogance.


- so He can answer some prayers (I know some of mine have been), but He can't give everybody everything.

That's an interesting take on it. Usually the criticism to what you just said would invoke an argument against his omnibenevolence, but in the way you framed it, it's his omnipotence in question. Almost like he's a mage with limited amount of mana for prayer answering. It's not that he doesn't want to answer all prayers, he just doesn't have the power to. Although, you should ask yourself then, if he is all-good, were your prayers rightfully prioritized above others that are saying dying painfully of cancer?


It would seem that way. I know some of my prayers have been answered. Maybe it is not just a one time prayer that does it. Maybe you have to beg to show obedience. We all love it when anything is obedient to us. Maybe that is where we get it from.




posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:39 PM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy

Most religious people belong to Abrahamic religions. The religious predicates of god's nature (omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence) as espoused by those faiths are inferred by its scripture.

Why do people assume scripture represents the truth of god's nature I have no idea.

I don't think people should assume a creator god exists to begin with. Further believing we apes understand the desires and commandments of such a being (should one exist) is the height of our arrogance.


Apes? ! You do realize that an omnipotent God can create the Universe in any amount of time including all the fake fossil and carbon dating evidence? An omnipotent God could have created the Universe one moment ago with all your fake memories intact. Once you dub God as being omnipotent then pretty much our imaginations become God's playground.
edit on 16-12-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

I think if you willing to accept the necessary premises, the Abrahamic God is just as valid as any other.

I might be slow on the uptake tonight, but i'm not sure what you mean. I apologize if so. Paraphrase if you will.

What I was saying is that the Abrahamic God is anything but indifferent to the affairs of Humankind according to scripture.


I tend to lean towards a deist type interpretation for God.

Yeah that makes more sense in terms of indifference. That's why I was wondering.


I think Epicurus last statement, "Then why call him God?" doesn't follow in the argument.

The last part is just saying if this being is neither omnipotent or omnibenevolent then why call such a being 'god' at all.


As I said, it really seems to me that God is indifferent.

Religious gods, no. As far as metaphysical musings of a creator god goes, I would be inclined to agree with you.


I think God can be indifferent, still be omnipotent, still be infinitely good, and still be all-loving.

This would have to be achieved through Universal Reconciliation or something akin to that. It's a concept within Christian theology but I think the general idea that god would have to have it all work out perfectly in 'the end' somehow to justify the evil and suffering of mortal existence.



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

I agree with you. I don't think an ant could describe a truck very well.



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:44 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Apes? ! You do realize that an omnipotent God can create the Universe in any amount of time including all the fake fossil and carbon dating evidence?

Human beings are apes. I was referring to us, human beings.

I don't realize anything about 'god' because I hold no belief in such a deity and to me it's all metaphysical musings.

You sound more hostile than I thought this dialogue was going in. Sorry if I added to that.



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:57 PM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: dfnj2015

I think if you willing to accept the necessary premises, the Abrahamic God is just as valid as any other.

I might be slow on the uptake tonight, but i'm not sure what you mean. I apologize if so. Paraphrase if you will.

What I was saying is that the Abrahamic God is anything but indifferent to the affairs of Humankind according to scripture.


You don't have to apologize. You are always one the best thinkers on ATS.

So what I meant by "premises", there is a lot about the Abrahmic God that you have to accept as being true without any evidence. For example, the words in the Bible are actually the word of God. If you make that leap, and several others, then you could certainly interpret many experiences as being in line with those beliefs. Including certain experiences are the result of God's direct involvement and answering of prayers. For many people who choose to accept these premises as being true, their version of God seems just as real as yours or mine.

I am also very accepting of the atheists point of view as being valid. Even though it seems little like covering your eyes and putting your hands over your ears because you just don't want to talk about something uncomfortable.


originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
This would have to be achieved through Universal Reconciliation or something akin to that. It's a concept within Christian theology but I think the general idea that god would have to have it all work out perfectly in 'the end' somehow to justify the evil and suffering of mortal existence.


In the Abrahamic God way of thinking, God's proving ground for faith would not be complete without sin and suffering. How can you test people's faith if you don't allow them to go through the ringer?



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 12:01 AM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: dfnj2015

Apes? ! You do realize that an omnipotent God can create the Universe in any amount of time including all the fake fossil and carbon dating evidence?

Human beings are apes. I was referring to us, human beings.

I don't realize anything about 'god' because I hold no belief in such a deity and to me it's all metaphysical musings.

You sound more hostile than I thought this dialogue was going in. Sorry if I added to that.


I'm not hostile at all. I love your posts. Although I'm not sure your avatar represents your gender. You seem more like male engineer the way you write than a hot chick.
edit on 17-12-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 12:08 AM
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You seem more like male engineer the way you write than a hot chick.

I'm a man. Not quite a software engineer, but a professional web/iOS developer. I do 2D/3D art as a hobby, and it usually includes beautiful women in some way. Hence my avatars.

My mistake on the perceived hostility then. I'm likely just tired. I'll reply to your post(s) once this Netflix episode ends.



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 12:18 AM
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This kind of thinking is what made me a heathen.

I prefer my gods to be flawed.

Norse and Celtic are my favorite flavors.

I never asked for any forgiveness, nor did I ever ask to have to accept any terms and conditions in order to avoid eternal torture and damnation.

I mean, what sort of god creates me, says I have free will, but then if I live a good life, but don't accept that god's perspective, I am tormented for all eternity?

Serious question.



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

It also depends greatly on someone's view of God, religion, and our purpose on Earth.

In Islam, we believe God is all powerful & all good. But we also believe that the purpose of life on Earth is for us to earn our way to Heaven or to Hell. Life is a series of tests and we determine whether we pass or fail based on our responses to those tests. If God intervened every time someone did something good or bad, it would defeat the purpose.
edit on 17-12-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 01:55 AM
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Does the perceived GOD even consider thyself a GOD?
Or is the "label" associated with direct observers interpretation of actions of said GOD, 1 wonders...



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 02:03 AM
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Or
As the bible states
We are created in His image
He has given us our own sovereignty, free will, choice to live our lives as we see fit, a gift
It then becomes up to us to be responsible for our own actions as we see fit, He will judge us at some designated time for those actions, when He feels it right to do so.

God can't be all loving if He makes us robots and intervenes constantly

A God that is all power, offering us all options, with the intention of restoring this broken world we live in

There is no issue with God allowing us to choose evil if we want to, judgement and His will, will be done at His designated time
As He has stated

What would be the point of creation if it operated like a train set, pre programmed with no choice



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 02:05 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

I have not seen that film. ?is the acting any good.



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 02:21 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
"if God is all powerful,
he cannot be all good.
And if he's all good
then he cannot be all powerful."

I think it might be hundreds of years old er than that.
And has been refuted for twice that long!

IF God is Omni-, then that means that God is ALL INCLUSIVE!
God is One means ALL inclusive!
That means God is all that exists, the entirety of Reality, ever, One Self!
That means that all the 'power' that exists is God's power, that every eye is God's eye, every hand God's hand, every evil every hateful act, every ugly thought, crappy feeling, bliss, sorrow, ... and on ad-infinitum!
So yes, if God is all powerful, he is also, equally all weakness, and all everything in between!
All dualities exist within God!
All thoughts, all ego, all dreams, all Knowledge all ignorance....
That is how that little jingle doesn't get invited to the philosopher's tea! *__-

"God cannot know himself without me." - Meister Eckhart

"The eye by which I see God is the same as the eye by which God sees me. My eye and God's eye are one and the same." - Meister Eckhart



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 02:23 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

A genocidal flood that destroys 99.99% of humanity supports giving humans free-will how exactly? We need to be alive to exercise free-will, no?




choice to live our lives as we see fit

edit on 17-12-2016 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 02:49 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
Or
As the bible states
We are created in His image
He has given us our own sovereignty, free will, choice to live our lives as we see fit, a gift
It then becomes up to us to be responsible for our own actions as we see fit, He will judge us at some designated time for those actions, when He feels it right to do so.

God can't be all loving if He makes us robots and intervenes constantly


But love can be programmed into a robot and then it can figure that out. True if love then else is easier said than typed.


What would be the point of creation if it operated like a train set, pre programmed with no choice


So that the robots can figure it out. I would love to have a robot ask me what love is and then have it record everything and transcribed to a twitter feed to think of something. It would reference a lot to Jesus so the Vatican would also need a robot, just like every other religion basically.



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 03:14 AM
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a reply to: johnnyjoe1979


I would love to have a robot ask me what love is and then have it record everything and transcribed to a twitter feed to think of something.

What do you mean by this? Paraphrase. I'm interested, but i'm not following...



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 03:46 AM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Raggedyman

A genocidal flood that destroys 99.99% of humanity supports giving humans free-will how exactly? We need to be alive to exercise free-will, no?

If you put it like that, humans have our own comparable examples.

We kill off entire populations of animals (like buffaloes and wolves), then set up wildlife reserves to jump start their decimated populations. In some areas, we allow wildlife to live freely and to choose its own path. But if one of those animals attacks a human, we kill it. Or if the animals become too acclimated to humans or invade "our" territory, we judge them as threats or pests and exterminate them while allowing the ones in the wild to survive. We even pretend to care about animal rights while killing countless millions of livestock for food. We even "cull" entire contaminated populations of animals while sparing the uncontaminated ones.

And even the people that round up & kill "stray" cats may have a pet cat at home that they love like family. And if pet dogs bite their owners or become too bothersome, people send them off to a shelter to die and then replace it with a new dog.

To the animals in these situations, we probably seem just as full of contradictions as your example. But how can humans explain to animals why our actions aren't actually contradictory? It could be a simple as God quarantining the "uncontaminated" humans, purging the "contaminated" humans, and then letting the uncontaminated survivors restart the human population.
edit on 17-12-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 03:59 AM
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When will you bible numpty's wake up and and realise that there is no god. It's the biggest cop out in human history to accept all the misery past and present on this planet and say its a matter of faith! If I believed in pigs could fly because I have faith would my belief be accept and be followed? Nope!

Set your self free from the shackles and crutch of silly beliefs!

Man's hope is not in silly beliefs but in his own common sense and wisdom!



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 04:01 AM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Raggedyman

A genocidal flood that destroys 99.99% of humanity supports giving humans free-will how exactly? We need to be alive to exercise free-will, no?

If you put it like that, humans have our own comparable examples.

We kill off entire populations of animals (like buffaloes and wolves), then set up wildlife reserves to jump start their decimated populations. In some areas, we allow wildlife to live freely and to choose its own path. But if one of those animals attacks a human, we kill it. Or if the animals become too acclimated to humans or invade "our" territory, we judge them as threats or pests and exterminate them while allowing the ones in the wild to survive. We even pretend to care about animal rights while killing countless millions of livestock for food. We even "cull" entire contaminated populations of animals while sparing the uncontaminated ones.

And even the people that round up & kill "stray" cats may have a pet cat at home that they love like family. And if pet dogs bite their owners or become too bothersome, people send them off to a shelter to die and then replace it with a new dog.

To the animals in these situations, we probably seem just as full of contradictions as your example. But how can humans explain to animals why our actions aren't actually contradictory? It could be a simple as God quarantining the "uncontaminated" humans, purging the "contaminated" humans, and then letting the uncontaminated survivors restart the human population.


Yep, all that
And
Sometimes evil becomes so utterly and completely destructive it has to be stopped

If a man has committed so many crimes, won't stop, won't change, prison. If the crimes are severe enough, death sentence.
The world had become so corrupt a global death sentence was orchestrated
You don't have to believe that.



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