Man arrested for using stun-gun on his 14 year old son

Im in agreement that parenting skills sould only include spakning for serious dicipline problems, and never because the parent is angry....OFCOURSE the parent is going to be angry, yet they have to be the more advanced human and control themselves while being an authority...

I believe that spanking on the bottom with an open hand is ok, questionable to use a paddle, switch, belt or any object tho...
Id also include a sharp wack on the back of the hand, again using only an open slap and no object....
Ill even go along with an open slap to the upper arm...not repeated wacking mind you but one or 2 to get the point across...

Firm grasps...(like grabbing the kid by the arm can leave a temporary mark, which you could get into trouble for, even if the kid is thrashing around and your mearly trying to keep ahold of them) should also be able to be used by any parent.... sometimes you just have to physically move the child.

I MUST say that use of a stun gun IS way over the line...and im a firm believer in strong dicipline...
BUT
a stun gun IS a weapon..(designed to drop an adult)..a parent should not have to resort to use of a weapon against their child unless the child has one first. even then the parent should disarm the kid and STILL not use a weapon against the kid.

This guy is going to get busted...he allowed the kids to override his sense of control as an adult and most importanltly
he used a WEAPON against the kid.
damn, use a belt, ruler, rolled up magazine, but a WEAPON?
get real.

Originally posted by instar

Fear breeds respect. Kids need to be taught to fear the consequences, which, I feel they dont anymore.

You have it WRONG, twisted and F8cked up! NO child should ever fear their parents, ever! fear is not nessesary, clear understanding (education about)
consequences of poor choices, is.
Im betting your parents treated you the way you treat your kids/step kids Spliff.
As i said before, violence teaches violence, thats a fact, theres no getting arounding it. Kids learn by what you do, more than what you say. Kids raised with violence end up violent adults/violent parents and the cycle continues.
If you were brought up with violence and you cant get your thick skull around the idea of creative non violent disciplin, then your doing no better than your parents did, you do your kids disservice and eventually your grandkids, because your kids will learn your methods and raise your grandkids the same.
What [p's] me off is grandparents who flogged the crap out of their kids, made them fear, because they were too entrenched in fear based parenting by their own parents, then mellow as they age and interfere when they realise their own kids are treating the grandkids the same way.
You reap what you sow.
Many of you are waxing lyrical about out of control kids, but you dont question your own techniques/whatever that made them so. Instead you stubbornly stick to your fear/punishment agenda, despite it not working and even exabberating the problem. Then you have the gall to claim THEY cant learn???
No wonder its such a problem. On the other extreme are the hopeless "Flanders in the 60's" cases ("we just cant do it man"/disciplin)
who do follow the fruitloops on tv like dr phil and the like. What they fail to see is that technique alone is useless, unless your really communicating with your kids, not "physc speak" crap either, just "get real" understand the kids veiw and get the kid to understand yours, communication, then the DR phil crap wont wash.
Your kids need to trust you, trust your judgement, respect you, respect your judgement, and not just be your son/daughter but your freind aswell.
All kids hate and rebell against authority, the trick is to make sure that the authority comes from respect, not from fear of a belt, or stun gun. Too many parents seem to inherit the "I own my kids" mentality, expecting unconditional respect, but fostering none. These are the folk who still beleive you can get something for nothing.
How can I expect any respect from my kids, if I havent taught them with respect from the very start, and taught them right from wrong and whats expected without fear. I teach them respect and trust by giving them the opportunity to learn its value by example, rather than by threat of consequences. The earn my respect and trust in kind. if they make a poor choice, I show them (without violence) what the consequences of that choice are, my dissappointment is apparent, from this they learn.
If they make a good choice, I show I am pleased by extending my trust and respect. I tell them Im pleased and proud they have made the right choice and the consequences of that are positive in their favour.
In this way I foster that trust and mutual respect.
too many parents tell their kids how bad/wrong/stupid they are when they do wrong, but are very reluctant to praise positive behaviour/choices.
Its this positive reinforcement thats builds a strong bond with your kids, it builds on trust and respect, They do the right thing because they want your love, trust and respect, not because they fear what you will do to them if they dont.
This is My experience, not some mindf*ck crap I heard on Oprah.



[edit on 123131p://390112 by instar]

Yes, and in a land called perfect that would work. I raise my kids much like a drill instructor. There are consequences, both good and bad. I dont just haul off and smack them for lookin at me cross eyed for gods sake. But I do have a line. And they are well aware of that line.

Its my house, and yes, I do own them. Not the state, and most certainly, not YOU. This exemplifies a huge problem in our society. And its a problem from people such as yourself. You cant come in my living room and tell me how to raise my family. Go worry about your own. You go right ahead and talk away. But you know what? Thats not how life works and your doing more harm than good.

When the kids grow up and have job, they have to shut up and do what theyre told. They dont have a choice. Life isnt a choice. Its a series of "do what your told" IE: The boss tells you when to show up and go home. He doesnt need to explain himself. The cop tells you to pull over, he doesnt need to explain why. Life is ruled by those with more power and authority than yourself. Ask anyone in the military.

I dont want to hear my kids opinion on MY rules. It doesnt matter. Their opinion doesnt count. I am the boss. I call the shots. Not them. It sounds to me like you need to grow a pair when it comes to them. To many people are afraid to hurt the kids feelings. Thats BS. Id rather hurt them now, and teach em a lesson, than watch them turn out to become smart a-s punks who get fired from every crappy job they have, because they want to tell the boss how to run things.

The best lesson I can teach them is to know when to shut your mouth and listen. That starts young. They will go alot further in life the sooner they learn that.

So to sum it up....My house, My rules. I am king, they are the subjects. If they dont like it, (which, honestly, they do pretty good) well, tough. Get over it. They'll thank me one day....

Spliff you could have shortened your post to this...

I raise my kids much like a drill instructor
Its my house, and yes, I do own them.
I dont want to hear my kids opinion on MY rules. It doesnt matter. Their opinion doesnt count.

The rest is fluff. you told me I had it wrong, I think you have it wrong.
This is not about YOU, its about a moron who used a stun gun on a child.
If you condon it or think

This sounds really bad at first, but I don't feel it is

Then your just as bad, or you dont really beleive that and your being deliberatly provocative. Eitherway, god help your kids. I hope that bastard does time!
P.s. Australia must be perfect, we dont treat our kids like marines here! It not only does work, but creates respectful obedient and well balanced kids.

[edit on 023131p://49012 by instar]

This is not about YOU, its about a moron who used a stun gun on a child.

a 14 year old child....yes..still a babe...
You think he should be given time for breaking up a fight in his house by zappin the kid twice? TIME ??? Your serious???

Question-------> What would you have done?

Originally posted by spliff4020

This is not about YOU, its about a moron who used a stun gun on a child.

a 14 year old child....yes..still a babe...
You think he should be given time for breaking up a fight in his house by zappin the kid twice? TIME ??? Your serious???

Question-------> What would you have done?

Yes Im serious, this arsehole has no idea. 3 months in the penn getting bent by a bull queer might change his veiws on violence!

I would have simply physically restrained the kid, how much of a weedy wimpy little coward did this guy have to be that he couldnt restrain a 14 y.o kid for christ sake? A bucket of water would have been just as effective to cool him off. Only the weak hide behind weapons and only the weak of mind defend them for it!

It really depends on how large said 14 years child was. I've known some 14 year olds that where literally beasts, in every sense of the word with the police record to prove it too. One guy I knew even had the nickname Gotti and his first name was John. Get it! haha not funny IMO. Some kids grow up fast in rough situations, should they be treated as adults sometimes? Hell yes! Cuz sometimes thats the only way to get through to them. When I went to highschool, I just so happened to go to one of the roughest in Toronto. The Hall Monitor doubled as a bouncer during the weekends. And when someone got up to something he would use any force necessary to subdue someone. Sometimes someone got hurt as he was a very Big guy, but usually he prevented further injury. Now with that said, I believe people should use common sense when using these WEAPONS, as they have caused death before. Now you wouldn't stun an 8 year old would you?

No, not an 8 year old. Also remember, this is a stun gun. Not the projectile shooting tazers...This is alittle hand held thing. I still say the kid had it coming

[edit on 31-1-2005 by spliff4020]

Originally posted by spliff4020
No, not an 8 year old. Also remember, this is a stun gun. Not the projectile shooting tazers...This is alittle hand held thing. I still say the kid had it coming

[edit on 31-1-2005 by spliff4020]

I said that as a comparison between a TEENAGER and a CHILD. Big difference IMO. Re-read my post I was agreeing with ya Spliff

[edit on 31-1-2005 by sardion2000]

Some kids grow up fast in rough situations, should they be treated as adults sometimes?

I think half the problem is that they are treated as adults, thats why they

grow up fast in rough situations

with bad attitudes to authority and no respect. Kids should be kids UNTIL they are not, not treated like an adult at 14 or younger.

Now you wouldn't stun an 8 year old would you?

NO, nor a 14 year old either. They are both kids, there is no difference except the onset of puberty. no excuse for violence.

Also remember, this is a stun gun. Not the projectile shooting tazers...This is alittle hand held thing.

OH well, that makes all the difference!

It really depends on how large said 14 years child was. I've known some 14 year olds that where literally beasts, in every sense of the word with the police record to prove it too

Oh, so now the kid was built like john coffee in "the green mile"? C'mon get real, it comes back to the fact that his parents had no idea and let him become like that to start with, if they had been consistant with disciplin and taught him mutual respect from the get go, there wouldnt be such a problem to start with. maybe the kid was big and poor weedy little daddy was scared of him. same deal, daddys fault, no mutual respect taught from infancy.

[edit on 033131p://18013 by instar]

Umm, okay instar you can believe what you wanna believe. I think it should be discretionary. If a 160 lbs+ "kid" who just happens to be 14 years of age starts fighting on your property what do you do? Get in there? That could make the situation worse, watch them as they trash your property? Would you do that or Call the Police and wait? I think you or anyone would try to stop it immediately and a little hand held stun gun(whats the voltage and amperage?) can be used justifiably in certain cases. Below a certain age and or size(I was thinking more of size and more size = more threat) now for one its not like this was a "kid" as you state. A kid too me is someone who cannot be left unsupervised at any time. A 14 yearold is obviously not supervised some of the time and is trusted with at least having some common sense. Thats all I'm trying to get at......

[edit on 31-1-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by instar

Originally posted by spliff4020

This is not about YOU, its about a moron who used a stun gun on a child.

a 14 year old child....yes..still a babe...
You think he should be given time for breaking up a fight in his house by zappin the kid twice? TIME ??? Your serious???

Question-------> What would you have done?

Yes Im serious, this arsehole has no idea. 3 months in the penn getting bent by a bull queer might change his veiws on violence!

I would have simply physically restrained the kid, how much of a weedy wimpy little coward did this guy have to be that he couldnt restrain a 14 y.o kid for christ sake? A bucket of water would have been just as effective to cool him off. Only the weak hide behind weapons and only the weak of mind defend them for it!

Yes Im serious, this arsehole has no idea. 3 months in the penn getting bent by a bull queer might change his veiws on violence!

ok, first of all, Im sure dad would be a changed man after three months of sodomy. Secondly. Your a hypocrite. On one hand its, " how dare you touch that 14 (hardly a child anymore..), but on the other hand, its ok for the dad to get raped in prison for it. Make up your mind....

A bucket of water would have been just as effective to cool him off.

So in the middle of a fight, you suggest retrieving a bucket, filling it with water and soaking them. Begs the question, why dont cops carry buckets?

Listen, I dont know how you guys do things over in that dog and pony show you call "Austrailia", but over here in America, the cops can legally tazer a 6 year old grade school kid

Only the weak hide behind weapons and only the weak of mind defend them for it!

Tell that line to our Marines in Iraq. ( or the dozen or so you guys got over there). I betcha they feel differently...

I think it should be discretionary *new quote*
and a little hand held stun gun(whats the voltage and amperage?) can be used justifiably in certain cases.

You think so? how about making it discretionary to burn your kid with cigarettes or hold there hand on the stove "in certain cases"?
How about baseball bats "in certain cases"?
WTF is wrong with you people, if you had been treated that way, youd be whinging and saying "child abuse" pretty damn quick.
You agree with that kind of crap, and treat your kids like that and they will be parents just like you, abusing their kids.
Its NOT justifiable ever, and ABUSE should NOT be discretionary EVER !!

Originally posted by instar

I think it should be discretionary *new quote*
and a little hand held stun gun(whats the voltage and amperage?) can be used justifiably in certain cases.

You think so? how about making it discretionary to burn your kid with cigarettes or hold there hand on the stove "in certain cases"?
How about baseball bats "in certain cases"?
WTF is wrong with you people, if you had been treated that way, youd be whinging and saying "child abuse" pretty damn quick.
You agree with that kind of crap, and treat your kids like that and they will be parents just like you, abusing their kids.
Its NOT justifiable ever, and ABUSE should NOT be discretionary EVER !!

Oh good god, I see why Brits put you all on a boat and shipped you there. Ya, this is the same as a stove and bat....You got a sick mind there. This guy broke up a fight. He wasnt gettin off while he did it. Whatever. I still say GO DAD!! I just might go get me one to...

ok, first of all, Im sure dad would be a changed man after three months of sodomy. Secondly. Your a hypocrite. On one hand its, " how dare you touch that 14 (hardly a child anymore..), but on the other hand, its ok for the dad to get raped in prison for it. Make up your mind....

a 14 yo IS a child. Your above statement dosent make sense, wheres the contradiction, the arsehole DID use a stun gun on his kid, hence I said he should get prison. I didnt say he SHOULD get bent, just that its likely, they hate child abusers in jail.

Listen, I dont know how you guys do things over in that dog and pony show you call "Austrailia", but over here in America, the cops can legally tazer a 6 year old grade school kid

Australias a dog n pony show now. why are you slurring Australia ?
If what you say is true it explains a hell of a lot, particularly your mentality about this. Only in America!

C'mon get real, it comes back to the fact that his parents had no idea and let him become like that to start with,

Umm are you calling me a Liar? If you are I could take that as a personal insult ya know... I respect alot of your opinions Instar but your refusal to have a rational conversation about this is hampering discussion. I though I would chime in with some of my own personal experiences and you can disagree with them but please do not call my a liar mmkay? And just an FYI He was a foster home kid... like it or not Teenagers come in many sizes and shapes. Some of them still look like they belong in grade 5, while some of them look like they belong in grade 11 or 12 when they are 14. Actually the kid I was talking about was more short and stalky and very mean too boot.

if they had been consistant with disciplin and taught him mutual respect from the get go, there wouldnt be such a problem to start with. maybe the kid was big and poor weedy little daddy was scared of him. same deal, daddys fault, no mutual respect taught from infancy.

It's sometimes kinda hard to do that if said kid is living in a Foster home or a single parent home where the parent has to work all the time in order to provide a decent living? I've seen, so don't preach to me. Alot of these kids learn disrepect from thier peers not thier parents all thier parents really have to be to blame is not being thier because they were providing Food, Shelter and Clothing for thier Kid(s) more often plural.

Originally posted by sardion2000

Originally posted by spliff4020
No, not an 8 year old. Also remember, this is a stun gun. Not the projectile shooting tazers...This is alittle hand held thing. I still say the kid had it coming

[edit on 31-1-2005 by spliff4020]

I said that as a comparison between a TEENAGER and a CHILD. Big difference IMO. Re-read my post I was agreeing with ya Spliff

[edit on 31-1-2005 by sardion2000]

I was with ya a 100%. I was just answering the last question in your post about using it on an eight year old. Would I? No. But the police can, legaly!! Yet the veggimite sandwich here, thinks this is so deplorable that this happened to a 14, the dad should be sodomized for three years as a punishment..I'm still trying to figure that one out...

I have sympathy for the children of some of you.
Not all teenagers and children are bad, I'm 16, and I've never skipped school, got detention or a referal, I dont talk back to my mom.
The worst thing I've ever done is chase my moms boyfriend with a butcherknife after he hit her, hes lucKy he left because I would of killed him.
I think if you have a really unruly child like threatens you or attacks you or something like that you should send them to bootcamp.

Also children are not anyones property, know matter what you think.

[edit on 1/31/2005 by iori_komei]

Umm are you calling me a Liar? If you are I could take that as a personal insult ya know... I respect alot of your opinions Instar but your refusal to have a rational conversation about this is hampering discussion

Sardinion im trying to stay on topic here and im referring the kid in questiopn, whos arsehole "father" used a stungun on him. Im not referring to any other kid you bring into the thread ok. Misunderstanding there.

Yet the veggimite sandwich here, thinks this is so deplorable that this happened to a 14, the dad should be sodomized for three years as a punishment..I'm still trying to figure that one out...

spliff your petty insults and deliberate misquoting and twisting of my words is not cementing your case but jackhammering it mate.

[edit on 033131p://47013 by instar]

CazMedia says,

You have voted spliff4020 for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Now while i agree with that style of parenting, i still will not support using a weapon, stun gun or not, against your child....unless he's armed and going to harm others or himself directly, and seriously or fatally there is no need, and i agree that the guy should be charged....reguardless of if the cops did it and got away with it.

Lets hear from a teen on this, Iori says

I have sympathy for the children of some of you.

WHY exactly? You must think there is no love and some kind of draconian lifestyle going on....in fact most housholds ive seen strict dicipline in dont need to actually resort to discipline actions often, (once the toddler is cognizant as a kid) Actually its because these parents LOVE their kids that they watch them so much...

Iori says,

Not all teenagers and children are bad, I'm 16, and I've never skipped school, got detention or a referal, I dont talk back to my mom.

Good for you and them, but the fact that you arent misbehaiving doenst negate the parents rights or responsibillities to dicipline you, or set up rules for you to follow and thus not need dicipline.
Parents that set rules and then dont enforce them deserve the mess their kids turn out to be.

Instar, no one ive seen on this thread is advocating abuse, but certantly there are plenty of parents here that dont dicipline their kide enough, you see them at the malls, at resturaunts, and other places acting like wild children....when they get to be teens, they are practically un-managable.
We need to do better here with child dicipline.