Duterte admits to being a Junky and killing Drug suspects

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: underwerks

In any country where you can be killed for suspicion of something, any feelings of safety are temporary and fleeting. That's a fact.

Are you really going to voice your disapproval of the president if you could be dragged out back and shot if the authorities felt like it? On suspicion?

None of this leads to a safer society for anyone. Any temporary gains are inconsequential when compared to what this means long term for everyone except the president.

In public, not so much. But in private...absolutely. There have been anti-Duterte marches and protests. But in general, the government there is a lot like you said: powerful and able to get rid of people for suspicion.

Like I said, I don't agree with Duterte, but apparently the street crime was horrendous before his regime and now it's palpable. Is it temporary? Probably. But I don't live there so I cannot judge. Is it better to be labeled a drug pusher (ako si pusher) and be shot in the streets execution style, or to be robbed, raped and killed by home invaders that are needing their next fix? Neither option sounds good to me- from what I gather the majority of the citizens would rather take their chances with the "death squads" (which they actually deny exist) than the hold-nappers, kidnappers, rapers, killers and that sort.

Making streets safer by killing the people walking them over suspicion of something, isn't making the streets safer. It's making the government more dangerous.

Drugs will always be there. And here. And everywhere. Prohibition has never worked anywhere on earth, even at the threat of death.

The only solution to crime in the Philippines is to get rid of the gangs and organized crime. There's only money to made in drugs because it's illegal. Legalization and education is the only solution.

Or you can have the president riding around killing people and death squads. You can't jail or kill off a medical problem like drug abuse.

a reply to: marhaba

By making the penalties for drugs more serious (death, killings over suspicion, death squads) you only drive the price of drugs up, further enriching and giving power to the same gangsters you're supposed to be fighting against.

Drugs are a force of nature. Sweeping leaves on a windy day. No matter who you are. The reason people think like Duterte is because they've been fed 100+ years of lies and propaganda about how to fight drugs.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: underwerks




Making streets safer by killing the people walking them over suspicion of something, isn't making the streets safer. It's making the government more dangerous.

While I agree with you, it's easy for us to judge when we're not living there. From people that I talk to daily, it's safer for them to walk around.

Drugs will always be there. And here. And everywhere. Prohibition has never worked anywhere on earth, even at the threat of death.

The only solution to crime in the Philippines is to get rid of the gangs and organized crime. There's only money to made in drugs because it's illegal. Legalization and education is the only solution.

Tell that to them. Getting rid of the drug infrastructure and the governmental corruption is a first step into getting rid of organized crime. The one thing that Duterte has done is root out some of the corrupt officials that have been in power and maintained that power (and ties to organized crime) for a long time.

Or you can have the president riding around killing people and death squads. You can't jail or kill off a medical problem like drug abuse.

You're right, you cannot kill off the problem...however the government can root out the majority of the big players, and in doing so reduce the amount of addicted individuals and those that would conduct business openly, corrupt cops and corrupt local officials as well. (just so you know, Duterte has also gotten a very large amount of users and addicts to turn themselves in and given them access to treatment and education programs to help them with their drug habit.)

Don't for a second think that I'm in agreement with Duterte or his policies because I'm not. But what I do agree with is that I'm not there and what I think means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of daily life in the Philippines. I don't know the fear that existed there to prompt so many people to vote for him this past June, nor how bad the crime was to precipitate such a vote.

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: marhaba

By making the penalties for drugs more serious (death, killings over suspicion, death squads) you only drive the price of drugs up, further enriching and giving power to the same gangsters you're supposed to be fighting against.

Drugs are a force of nature. Sweeping leaves on a windy day. No matter who you are. The reason people think like Duterte is because they've been fed 100+ years of lies and propaganda about how to fight drugs.

Basic economics: Reduced supply means higher prices. However reduced volume of sales means the profits are lessened.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: marhaba

By making the penalties for drugs more serious (death, killings over suspicion, death squads) you only drive the price of drugs up, further enriching and giving power to the same gangsters you're supposed to be fighting against.

Drugs are a force of nature. Sweeping leaves on a windy day. No matter who you are. The reason people think like Duterte is because they've been fed 100+ years of lies and propaganda about how to fight drugs.

Basic economics: Reduced supply means higher prices. However reduced volume of sales means the profits are lessened.

That's the thing though, we're talking about drugs here. I seriously doubt there is a reduced volume of sales, and how would you measure that anyway? All it does is push addicts further underground and make life more dangerous for everyone all around.

The worst despots that have ever ruled have been installed by a popular vote and by the "people". Being elected instead of taking power by force isn't a measure of anything. 1,000 people a month have been killed every month for the last 6 months by vigilante's for suspected drug use.That speaks for itself. How many more thousands need to be murdered in the street on suspicion of something?

You could exterminate almost all the population and drug use would still be a problem. The harder the laws and the official stance on drug use, the more powerful and rich you make the very people you're supposed to be fighting against. That little nugget of truth is why any war on drugs is doomed to fail from the start.

Almost a million drug users/pushers surrendered right after he assumed office and the media only keeps highlighting those that got killed during police operations and those being silenced by the drug syndicates.

700,000 drug dependents surrenders

Western media don't even report that even if faced with the enormity of the problem, Duterte had to rush things building rehab centers all over the Philippines which the previous administrations never bothered to do in the first place.

The building may be free and donated but running it will cost a lot money which will be shouldered by the government which no other previous administration has done.

Mega Drug Rehab Opens

The corruption is so high up that the only way to get at the source of the drugs is to threaten the lower ranks with death. Jail is not a threat in PH. There's no other way, not in a hundred years. It's like gangrene, the only solution is to cut it off. Legalizing meth is not a solution.

People know everyone in their community, it's not so easy to just murder someone and claim drugs. Everyone would know the truth.

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

..my issue is whats to stop someone killing their neighbour that they dont like and saying they were on drugs?

Now try this one, which is life on the ground in Pakistan, and in many (probably all, in fact) Arab/Muslim countries/ territories..

..my issue is whats to stop someone killing their neighbour that they dont like and saying they were ---blaspheming the prohet--koran--allah---?

This $h!t is the always the ultimate hellish reality for people who have become subject, often by no fault of their own ancestry, to those who have increasingly rejected the Western model of civilisation (a three step model: first was Christ & the Commandments -- second, The Reformation -- third, The Enlightenment).

The ultimate downward spiral we're describing is established across swathes of nations incrementally, by those who seek control over others, power for themselves, and the authority to do whatever they & their growing band of evil supporters desire, no matter the pre-existing state of morals & ethics in the territories which they progressively, through violence & seduction, acquire for their own dark hearts to enjoy..

The pattern is the same, the devil is literally in the details..

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek


Basic economics: Reduced supply means higher prices. However reduced volume of sales means the profits are lessened.

That's the thing though, we're talking about drugs here. I seriously doubt there is a reduced volume of sales, and how would you measure that anyway? All it does is push addicts further underground and make life more dangerous for everyone all around.

The worst despots that have ever ruled have been installed by a popular vote and by the "people". Being elected instead of taking power by force isn't a measure of anything. 1,000 people a month have been killed every month for the last 6 months by vigilante's for suspected drug use.That speaks for itself. How many more thousands need to be murdered in the street on suspicion of something?

You could exterminate almost all the population and drug use would still be a problem. The harder the laws and the official stance on drug use, the more powerful and rich you make the very people you're supposed to be fighting against. That little nugget of truth is why any war on drugs is doomed to fail from the start.

If there are less users on the streets ( I think somewhere around 500-900k estimated) then by definition there is less volume.

Another thing the media and the thread starter conveniently omitted to advance their propaganda, out of the 5,800 killed, more than 2,000 actually died during police operations when drug syndicates fought with the police.

What do you want LEO's to do, just stand there and get killed by the narcos? These drug syndicates are fully armed and will not hesitate pulling the trigger to kill.

Those killed outside police operations were mostly done by the drug cartels which was documented by Vice News. The drug syndicates were either killing those who didn't remit their drug sales and cleaning up those who ratted on them.



Jaybee Sebastian, the gang leader when he was about to testify on drug operation inside the prison system almost got killed when his patron, Senator De Lima, who is under investigation now for drug involvement, announced on live tv that Jaybee was her asset inside the NBP. The lady Senator just handed him the death sentence when she did that and she knows very well what's going to happen as the Bureau Of Penology was under her when she was the cabinet secretary of Justice.

Jaybe Sebastian: I gave 14million to De Lima

That's how corrupt the previous administration of Aquino was, her Secretary of Justice taking drug money and even ordered inmates to raise funds by selling drugs used for her senatorial campaign.

Duterte's war against drug also netted positive result since the crime rate in the Philippines went down nearly half.

www.philstar.com...

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