Florida could have been speaking French if it weren't for this ship wreck just discovered.

Jean Ribault was a French navigator who was ordered by King Charles IX to establish a Protestant colony in the southeast US.

"If the French had not been driven south and ships sunk by the hurricane, we would have a totally different story," said de Bry. "Florida could have been speaking French for a number of years."

Miami (AFP) - Treasure hunters have apparently found the 500-year-old remains of a naval expedition led by a colonizer who could have changed Florida's history, making it French-speaking at least for a while. The big question is if the shipwreck is that of "La Trinite," the 32-gun flagship of a fleet led by Jean Ribault, a French navigator who tried to establish a Protestant colony in the southeast US under orders from King Charles IX.

They probably are, say authorities in Florida, the French government and independent archaeologists. And if they in fact are, this is an unparalleled find, said John de Bry, director of the Center for Historical Archeology, a not-for-profit organization. "If it turns out to be 'La Trinite,' it is the most important, historically and archaeologically, the most important shipwreck ever found in North America," he told AFP.

All indications are that the shipwreck found is the real thing. The artefacts found at the site off Cape Canaveral include three bronze cannons with markings from the reign of King Henri II, who ruled right before Charles IX; and a stone monument with the French coat of arms that was to be used to claim the new territory. The remains are "consistent with material associated with the lost French Fleet of 1565," said Meredith Beatrice, director of communications with the Florida Department of State.

In 1565, Ribault set sail from Fort Caroline, today Jacksonville, to attack his arch-enemy, the Spaniard Pedro Menendez de Aviles, who had been sent to Florida by King Philip of Spain to thwart French plans to set up a colony. But Ribault got caught in a hurricane, which destroyed "La Trinite" and three other galleons and ended French dreams of claiming Florida. Ribault and hundreds of other French Huguenots were massacred by Menendez de Aviles.

- Historical interest -
"If the French had not been driven south and ships sunk by the hurricane, we would have a totally different story," said de Bry. "Florida could have been speaking French for a number of years." In modern day Florida, archeologists and historians have been looking for this shipwreck for years. Two years ago, an expedition from the state-run St. Augustine Lighthouse Archaeological Maritime Program gave it a shot but found nothing.

Marine archeologist Chuck Meide, who led that try, said "this is one of the most important shipwreck discoveries we have had in Florida." The find was finally made in May of this year by a treasure hunting firm called Global Marine Exploration. Precisely where has not been disclosed. "It is not advisable," said French consul general Clement Leclerc. "This is potentially a major discovery and we think it deserves a scientific and rigorous analysis and exploitation, because we think it should be later presented to the general public given its historical interest," he told AFP.

- Not French - The one who is not happy is Robert Pritchett, the owner of GME, who says he has invested three million dollars in this gig and now runs the risk of getting nothing for his trouble. Under laws governing shipwrecks, the United States recognizes other countries' sovereignty over warships of theirs that sink in US waters. So Florida must -- and it plans to -- hand over the remains in this case to France.

But Pritchett does not want to end up with nothing and is promising to fight it. "It is not a French military vessel. Tell France to prove it. They cannot. I can tell you France has no proof of anything," said Pritchett. "We are professionals here at GME, not novice divers like LAMP and state archaeologists," he added. The find has been kept under wraps since at least August, but came to light recently because of a legal dispute between France and GME over rights to the shipwreck.

In October GME filed a suit claiming ownership of all the remains found at the shipwreck site. But early this month France and the state of Florida filed a counter-suit. "We are very excited and curious to see how the legal action goes, but we feel it's a very strong case for France," said Meide.

This Prichett guy seems petty to me. If it is indeed the french ship then it belongs to them, that is the law. If an american ship of historical importance was found, I would want any artifacts to come back here. Sucks he spent all that money but he knows these laws and the risk of having to hand over your finds.

An intereting story non the less. Fun to imagine how it would have changed history or the culture of Florida if it were were a colony of France.

Source

I've often said, when an arrogant and ignorant American trots out the old lie about how the British would be speaking German were it not for the US joining the second world war three years late, like the last time, when the fighting was over, that Americans would be speaking a strange mixture of French, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese and German if it wasn't for the British.

if not for Romans, civilization would not exist

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
I've often said, when an arrogant and ignorant American trots out the old lie about how the British would be speaking German were it not for the US joining the second world war three years late, like the last time, when the fighting was over, that Americans would be speaking a strange mixture of French, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese and German if it wasn't for the British.

Uh, I am pretty sure the US had a pretty big hand in helping out Free Europe during WW2, I am also pretty sure that Japan would not have surrendered without the use of The Bomb! So yeah.

a reply to: CulturalResilience

America joined AFTER the fighting was over?

Buddy, read a book about WW2 before spouting that tripe

a reply to: FauxMulder
No it couldn't. Parts of NW Florida were already partly French. So they would have been speaking French. But in 1762 all territories in the America were ceded to Spain then in 1800 Napoleon took it back. Then in 1803 America bought it off the French (this was called the Louisiana Purchase) and if you look at the old maps of this territory you can clearly see it included NW Florida. So no, Florida would not be speaking French as France sold the rights to the land in 1803.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: FauxMulder
No it couldn't. Parts of NW Florida were already partly French. So they would have been speaking French. But in 1762 all territories in the America were ceded to Spain then in 1800 Napoleon took it back. Then in 1803 America bought it off the French (this was called the Louisiana Purchase) and if you look at the old maps of this territory you can clearly see it included NW Florida. So no, Florida would not be speaking French as France sold the rights to the land in 1803.

Yes that is what happened. But how or could any of that changed if the French were successful with this plan in the 1500's?

a reply to: FauxMulder
I don't believe it could. The French had control of this territory till 1762 then they gave it away. But when Napoleon took it back that would have been the time to consolidate French holdings in America so it might have. But history proves Napoleon did not have the power to hold on to it as he was stretched in Europe so he went with the easy option and sold it to America not to give it back to Spain. So in reality if he had given it back to Spain Florida could have been speaking Spanish now.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: FauxMulder
Florida could have been speaking Spanish now.

haha, actually Florida is speaking Spanish now. And in small south east enclaves, there is heavy French creole. Guess we ended up speaking it all French government should compensate the team of divers for the cost of investing, plus a little extra for the trouble if they want the remains.

a reply to: crayzeed

Also I certainly didn't mean to imply they would be speaking french as of now 2016. But maybe they would have a culture a little more like Louisiana.

originally posted by: kurthall

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
I've often said, when an arrogant and ignorant American trots out the old lie about how the British would be speaking German were it not for the US joining the second world war three years late, like the last time, when the fighting was over, that Americans would be speaking a strange mixture of French, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese and German if it wasn't for the British.

Uh, I am pretty sure the US had a pretty big hand in helping out Free Europe during WW2, I am also pretty sure that Japan would not have surrendered without the use of The Bomb! So yeah.

The US joined the second world war after the Russians had defeated Germany in the east and they had been held at channel coast by the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy in what is known as the Battle Of Britain. Despite what you may like to think dropping weapons of mass destruction on civilian targets does not constitute fighting. The US played its role in the liberation of Europe but by then Britain was in no danger of invasion from Germany or Japan for that matter.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
a reply to: CulturalResilience

America joined AFTER the fighting was over?

Buddy, read a book about WW2 before spouting that tripe

Mate, read an accurate history book and then read my response to Kurthal. In both world conflicts the US only joined when it was obvious which way things were going and the defeat of Germany had already been assured.

originally posted by: CulturalResilience

originally posted by: Butterfinger
a reply to: CulturalResilience

America joined AFTER the fighting was over?

Buddy, read a book about WW2 before spouting that tripe

Mate, read an accurate history book and then read my response to Kurthal. In both world conflicts the US only joined when it was obvious which way things were going and the defeat of Germany had already been assured.

Agree for WW1, definitely debatable for WWII. I don't see D-day happening without the US. I'm sure Britain could have kept Germany from taking them over but could they have liberated Europe without us? I don't think so.

I don't understand these kinds of statements. You can play the "What if?" game over and over. What if the British had prevailed in the American Revolution? What if the Germans had won WW II? What if Constantine had kept the Roman capitol in Rome? What if Ghengis Kahn had died as a child? What if the next Ice Age had arrived in 1700? What if the wrong butterfly had gotten stomped on by a T Rex before the Big Comet? What if Podesta's IT guy had not made a typo that turned "illegitimate email" into "legitimate email" prompting Podesta to be victimized by a typical and childish phishing attempt leading to the leaking of the DNC emails? Story here. Every single day something happens or doesn't happen somewhere in the world where, if the opposite HAD happened, it would change the course of history.

But it didn't. Maybe in another dimension, but not here. So get over it.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
a reply to: CulturalResilience

America joined AFTER the fighting was over?

Buddy, read a book about WW2 before spouting that tripe

Germany's power was already on the decline and their resources were gone before the U.S. invaded France. By the time the U.S. got there Russia was already on the skirts of Germany. Their days were numbered.

originally posted by: FauxMulder

originally posted by: CulturalResilience

originally posted by: Butterfinger
a reply to: CulturalResilience

America joined AFTER the fighting was over?

Buddy, read a book about WW2 before spouting that tripe

Mate, read an accurate history book and then read my response to Kurthal. In both world conflicts the US only joined when it was obvious which way things were going and the defeat of Germany had already been assured.

Agree for WW1, definitely debatable for WWII. I don't see D-day happening without the US. I'm sure Britain could have kept Germany from taking them over but could they have liberated Europe without us? I don't think so.

Operation Overlord wasn't necessary, it only sped up the inevitable and spared thousands of lives on both sides of the battlefield.

originally posted by: schuyler
I don't understand these kinds of statements. You can play the "What if?" game over and over. What if the British had prevailed in the American Revolution? What if the Germans had won WW II? What if Constantine had kept the Roman capitol in Rome? What if Ghengis Kahn had died as a child? What if the next Ice Age had arrived in 1700? What if the wrong butterfly had gotten stomped on by a T Rex before the Big Comet? What if Podesta's IT guy had not made a typo that turned "illegitimate email" into "legitimate email" prompting Podesta to be victimized by a typical and childish phishing attempt leading to the leaking of the DNC emails? Story here. Every single day something happens or doesn't happen somewhere in the world where, if the opposite HAD happened, it would change the course of history.

But it didn't. Maybe in another dimension, but not here. So get over it.

I don't think there is anything to "get over". No one is complaining or loosing sleep over what if's of history. It's more of a mental exercise, can be a fun conversation to have. Kind of like the TV show Man In The High Castle.

It breaks up all the RUSSIA EATS YOUR BABY, OMG TRUMP TWEETED SOMETHING threads

I thought the French were Catholic then? as they are now? Or were they trying to get rid of those pesky Huguenot?
As for the Romans and their civilisation, most of it was taken from other nations, such as the Greeks, the Egyptians, Assyrians, and who ever else they came across.
The Egyptians had the arch before the Romans, but only used it when building their grain stores, to name one item.

a reply to: crayzeed

The French had control of this territory till 1762 then they gave it away

So if the French had control of this territory in 1565 when this ship or fleet went down, They wouldn't necessarily be "warships"...

If just a cargo ship with cannons for defensive measures the guy that found it may have the right to keep his findings.


As far as the "what if" thing...Marvel comics used to publish a What if series. Did not read them all but my favorite was "what if" Conan the barbarian walked the earth today...