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Why the Russia thing is absurd

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posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

I will say one thing for sure, Putin scares the crap out of me!

Every time I see him in any clip he just looks so cold, hard and calculated.....

Scary dude IMO, and would be much better suited to the US as a friend instead of an enemy!

Let's make friends with him! I propose a joint US/Russian/Chinese manned mission to Mars. Nothing gets the publics juices flowing like people successfully stomping around on other worlds! #mannedmarsbaseftw

-AtcGod




posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's not a big deal because our system and so many others has become so clogged up with corruption, our own government doesn't feel to many, any less an enemy than Russia itself. There's so much corruption everywhere, from inside, outside, and who knows where influences things are so tangled up, it's hard to pinpoint a real enemy.

This looks like sensationalism to me. I see the government as no more or less corrupt than it has always been.


The US isn't the US, and Russia isn't Russia, as both are so entangled in non their own interests, we're all jumping at shadows.

See this is even you kind of admitting to this being mostly sensationalism.


The point is even if Russia is implicated at this point due to the overwhelming rampant corruption clogging the system it's impossible to untangle things enough to really understand what that means, and who's actually benefiting from this angle, and if those pushing it aren't truly the enemy.

Clearly we can't remove and stop all corruption, but in order to fix this situation, we clearly need to clean our own house first, cause in our current state going down the road towards war is horribly irresponsible as we can't truly be sure who or what we're actually fighting for at this point.]

Talking about corruption like it is this vague construct that must be battled is propaganda speak. You need to identify with facts, figures, and direct evidence of this corruption. Otherwise you just look like Don Quixote chasing dragons that are really windmills.


Stopping corruption completely is impossible, but we must start pushing back against it, and stop enabling it. Seeing as the exposure of corruption is what caused this, I'm a bit hesitant to go anti-russia as the result. I'm more inclined towards, ok, well if we've found that, what else is there to find that "Russia" didn't expose. Clearly our house needs to be cleaned. This was the DNC what about the RNC? What about others? We need to stop enabling our corruption and allowing them to point us at external enemies every time we begin to realize our own # stinks and start looking into it.

These groups have goals and purposes. According to some the real leaks were from insiders and not the Russians. If that's the case and the goal is to maintain the status quo an external enemy is the number one go to as a solution to this problem. Since it cannot be proved for a fact who did it, they can heavily imply it was Russia, because we can't prove it was insiders either, so it becomes a he said, she said sort of thing. Reasonable doubt.

We'll never really know who did it, nor do we all need to be convinced either way. Just need to implant enough reasonable doubt, we stop looking to closely and things can continue as normal. Convince enough of us to look outward and enough of us to have reasonable doubt and the threat is removed from the status quo.

We NEED to stop letting them distract us every what way and clean house.

I have no problem with cleaning house, but I still don't agree with you that all this corruption is inter tangled. That is just sensational bull# to make it seem like we can't battle this foe. No if you want to fight it, then you need to identify it. So FAR the most notable corruptions are coming from the Russians.

Sure the DNC was at fault for rigging the primaries, but that is a privately held election. It isn't mandated in the Constitution how the DNC should hold its primary election. That is small potatoes corruption compared to what Russia did with the Ukraine.



posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Puppylove

Can you imagine the absolute outrage from the Right Wing, if the dembs and the Obama admin. was cozying up to the commies.

It would be yugggggge! Believe me, very very yuggge, people tell me, I don't know but really, Yugggeee!



You mean Venezuela and Cuba? Maybe China or North Korea?

Last I checked, the Soviet Union collapsed decades ago. Whatever Russia is, it's not exactly communist anymore.
edit on 13-12-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t
There are some 562 different nations that the US has control over, those being the native American reservations, that are in short individual nations. And when the US wants something, they tend to break the very treaties signed and then come up with something new, messing over that population.

Now around the world, where the USA has interfered in local politics, while it may seem like a good idea, has often lead down the road to disaster and caused far more problems for both the country and the United States in the long run. Iran and Vietnam are 2 examples of such. Vietnam, after World War II, asked for the US help in gaining its independence from France, as they were seeing other former colonies being freed, with the help of the USA. They asked the USA said no, and it started a conflict, and ultimately the involvement of the USA. The policies that were implemented then it back fired, ultimately causing the USA to get involved in, what could have been considered a civil war.

Iran, is also another example where the USA got involved in the national politics of a foreign nation and it ended in disaster. At one time Iran had democratically elected politicians and in 1953, the USA overthrew the prime minister and installed a dictator in its place, the people resented the USA involvement in its politics, and in 25 years the country was overthrown again and now there is a theocracy that sits at the seat of power.

While yes, countries try to influence other countries politicians and elections, however, when caught tend to back off, for it not only embarrasses them, but also cause problems for each country in the long run, especially when it comes out. And could turn around and make people begin to resent and hate the other country.



posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The funny thing is I'm seeing a lot of people that claim the current Ukrainian government has no authority due to perceived US influence are also claiming that the US elections are 100% legit despite perceived Russian influence.

Personally I think both elections are legitimate. Yanukovych was as corrupt as they come and his people ousted him. Even if Russia is behind the DNC hacks it was still the will of the people reacting to the DNC's actions.


Well let's be plain, Weiner's "Cocktober" surprise that had all those emails from Hillary's private server on his laptop was likely the big nail in her coffin, and no one with any brain should be blaming that on any Russians!



posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig

Where did I say that the US was innocent? I specifically asked which countries the US still has control over. By the way, while the native conquering was awful, that happened a while back and isn't recent. There isn't much the US can do at this point to fix that. The US certainly isn't going to cede over land to the natives to build a new nation.

You mention Vietnam for instance. If anything our post-intervention there was the best of any other country. We completely abandoned that country for half a century and let them do their own thing. Now Vietnam is an ok country.



posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 02:12 PM
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It is absurd because this hacker group is being equated with the Russian state.



posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Puppylove

This is like saying that we should excuse a murderer because we all speed from time to time.



Your analogy is non-sensical. You can't compare murder with speeding.

Rock on Puppylove!



posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: AtcGod
a reply to: Puppylove

I will say one thing for sure, Putin scares the crap out of me!

Every time I see him in any clip he just looks so cold, hard and calculated.....

Scary dude IMO, and would be much better suited to the US as a friend instead of an enemy!

Let's make friends with him! I propose a joint US/Russian/Chinese manned mission to Mars. Nothing gets the publics juices flowing like people successfully stomping around on other worlds! #mannedmarsbaseftw

-AtcGod




"Let's make friends with him! I propose a joint US/Russian/Chinese manned mission to Mars. Nothing gets the publics juices flowing like people successfully stomping around on other worlds! #mannedmarsbaseftw "

Good idea good friends are better than bad enemies. If humanity truly cooperated instead of competed, we could accomplish the incredible.



posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Our influence directs foreign policy in nearly all of Asia Pacific outside of the mainland continent and Indonesia. It also dictate monetary policy in most of those same cases. You are well aware of the multi -tiered illusion of autonomy. Specific ministers in charge of specific ministries get a secondary payroll from the Multi-Nationals to make favorable trade deals that are less beneficiary to the local population.

Like when a debt ridden nations is forced to make drastic austerity cuts for a restructuring that mandates they sell off their national assets to private enterprise. Who wins? Western financiers of the IMF and World Bank, which are the instruments of indirect governance by the NATO/Oceania Empire. When it benefits the IMF or World Bank, what it is really doing is benefiting NATO/Oceania empire of rule. If those financial instruments and their board are the ones telling the reps of a country how and what to change about their country for a lifeline, that is a country who is now taking their orders from the stated empire.

Greece and Puerto Rico are recent examples. Most of Central America is under this indirect governance, including a handful of South American places like Colombia. Many of the unstable and fragile African republics are under similar control, but that is represented more by France, Italy, Belgium and Britain agents of the same Empire. Russia may be the largest single nation, but our Empire is likely double that size when all vassal states and countries of influence are accounted for. This is why Russia feels threatened. And now, so too is China.



posted on Dec, 13 2016 @ 08:39 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Good post.

It also turns the spotlight on the Obama Administration's inability to protect classified and secret material. In essence, its shown how incompetent our current defense leaders are.

Interesting how the MSM hasn't asked that question. If classified and secret material keeps getting hacked/stollen, well who's in charge of preventing that from happening. But then that turns the attention towards Obama, Hillary and the crew....

Hence, fake news from a fake MSM.
edit on 13-12-2016 by MysticPearl because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2016 @ 06:50 AM
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a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Congratulations. That was the point I was making.



posted on Dec, 14 2016 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: worldstarcountry

Influence isn't the same thing as directly controlling. You are stretching the concept of what I asked for here. If I have a friend who I can suggest activities for the friend to do that are agreeable to him, is that me directly controlling him? No. It's a mutual cooperation between friends respecting each other's ideas and YOU are trying to suggest that such a thing is malevolent on our end. Sure there is some inherent subterfuge between these governments, but our alliance with Japan and S. Korea is rather strong.

Then you bring up the IMF and World Bank. AGAIN you are stretching. We aren't either of those two organizations and guilt by association isn't going to cut it with me. I don't accept that evidence at all. We aren't also the sole decider in NATO either. Don't pin collaborative world efforts all on the US or even organizations that aren't the US like banks.



posted on Dec, 14 2016 @ 07:18 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
It is absurd because this hacker group is being equated with the Russian state.


Yes, how could a group of hackers who use a bear as their mascot allegedly hack into the Olympic database to expose American doping possibly be connected to the Russian government? Since this is the Mud Pit, I'd like to point out that your post was exceptionally stupid. Please tell me you don't really believe what you said.



posted on Dec, 14 2016 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: MysticPearl


It also turns the spotlight on the Obama Administration's inability to protect classified and secret material. In essence, its shown how incompetent our current defense leaders are.


The hacked emails were not classified, they were just ordinary traffic between private citizens. It so happened that these citizens were involved in a political campaign and were naïve about their cyber-security. You can bet that neither the DNC nor RNC will make that mistake again. Still, continue with your disinformation campaign. It only works on people who are information deprived, and even Trump voters are starting to wise up now that his cabinet is taking shape.



posted on Dec, 14 2016 @ 07:41 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

Is it possible for you to talk to me without making the thread about me? It seems like every time you talk to me it comes complete with a personal attack/ad hominem. It's getting tiring.


when you stop offering opinions, I'll stop commenting on them. Deal?



posted on Dec, 14 2016 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: network dude

So I should just ignore you going forward because you can't be civil? Thanks for the heads up.



posted on Dec, 14 2016 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yea, because the question I asked you was totally rude and mean. Grow up dude.



posted on Dec, 14 2016 @ 08:06 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I repeat:

Is it possible for you to talk to me without making the thread about me? It seems like every time you talk to me it comes complete with a personal attack/ad hominem. It's getting tiring.

This is what you said:

Just admit it. You are angry that the DNC's corruption was exposed. Pointing at Russia might make you feel better, but it won't change the facts.

Also. No I won't admit that because this thread isn't titled "Krazysh0t is angry about DNC corruption being exposed". Nor will I acknowledge you assuming things about my opinions is you not being rude.

I rest my case. Have a nice life.
edit on 14-12-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2016 @ 08:26 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: sdcigarpig

Where did I say that the US was innocent? I specifically asked which countries the US still has control over. By the way, while the native conquering was awful, that happened a while back and isn't recent. There isn't much the US can do at this point to fix that. The US certainly isn't going to cede over land to the natives to build a new nation.


So you ask for proof he gives you proof, and you immediately deflect and move the goal posts...

That is why so many independents are looking at the Left and walking further to the right, you guys have to be right no matter what the facts show, and will look down your nose at us regular joes. A little self reflection might actually save the DNC... but I dont think they are capable of that.



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