Trump: The USAF, F-22,F-35 Vs 6th Gen.

a reply to: seagull


There's enough post and comments by pilots that the F-22 is still far and away the best at what it does. As is the F-35.

It seems TPTB have already decided
that we need the sixth Gens. regardless of cost or length of time even though our fifth Gen. haven't even approached the planned potentials of either. TWO sixth gens. no less.

Well, there's a new crew taking over and we shall see.

a reply to: nwtrucker

The reason to begin working on the next-gen now is so that it's ready to go before the current 5th gen aircraft are becoming dangerously obsolescent against what ever future air defenses become available.

That's an absolute necessity so far as I'm concerned. The F18, and the other current members of the fleet...these airframes, in some cases are as old, if not older than the pilots sittin' in 'em. Not a good thing. If the sixth gen fighters and attack bombers are not operational at the time they're needed, it'll mean the kids are going to war in obsolescent aircraft.

Think Snoopy in his Sopwith Camel going up against a ME 262 piloted by the Red Baron. Not conducive to good mission results.

Yes. It's expensive, and hopefully needless, but you don't operate/plan your military's future on hopefully. That's also why the Pentagon needs to put price ceilings on the cost estimates of new systems, irregardless of what they are--airplane, rifle, wrenches, or toilet seats--this much, and not a penny more, any over runs are swallowed by the contractor.

I have nothing like the expertise in these matters as some like Zaph, or Intelgurl, and others have, but I do understand cost overruns etc... will doom these kids, just as surely as flying inferior aircraft against state of the art weapons systems.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: seagull

There's enough post and comments by pilots that the F-22 is still far and away the best at what it does. As is the F-35.

It seems TPTB have already decided that we need the sixth Gens. regardless of cost or length of time even though our fifth Gen. haven't even approached the planned potentials of either. TWO sixth gens. no less.

Well, there's a new crew taking over and we shall see.

The F-35 Block 2B version, which the Marine Corps declared operational in July 2015, is not capable of unsupported combat against any serious threat, according to Michael Gilmore, the Pentagon’s director of operational test and evaluation (DOT&E). A 48-page annual project report states that “the F-35B Block 2B aircraft would need to avoid threat engagement… in an opposed combat scenario, and would require augmentation by other friendly forces.”

The report notes Technical problems impose speed & maneuver limitations on the F-35. For example if the weapon bay temperatures exceed limits during ground operations on days warmer than 90-deg F, certain IR weapon systems are rendered inoperable unless weapons bay doors are left open which destroys STEALTH capability.

If weapons bay doors are left open during combat then this imposes combat manouvering limitations

At speeds between 500-600kts below 25,000 feet, if the weapon bays are closed for more than 10 min IR homing missiles are rendered useless.

Sure the F-35 can reach a target undetected at supersonic speed, but then it can't engage the target.

a reply to: sy.gunson

LOL

a reply to: sy.gunson

F35 pilot...who has actual flight time in it.

“There is nothing that I have seen from maneuvering an F-35 in a tactical environment that leads me to assume that there is any other airplane I would rather be in. I feel completely comfortable and confident in taking that airplane into any combat environment,” Lt. Col. Matt Hayden, 56th Fighter Wing, Chief of Safety, Luke AFB, Arizona, told Scout Warrior in a special pilot interview.

Guess who I'm going to trust to evaluate new technology. The guys who are going to take the things into combat.

Like any new technology, the F35 is going to have teething problems. Happens to every single piece of new hardware.

Out aircraft fleet is woefully out of date.

KC-135 is slowly going to be phased out in the next 20+years and the newest airframe in service was built in 1964. Not to mention all the special mission aircraft that are based on the same airframe. (looking glass EC-135s, rivet joints RC-135s or open skies OC-135)

B-52 with no real replacement is only slightly younger then the -135, the oldest airframes have already been phased out. While not as old as the first 2 here the B-1 is one of the largest maintenance hogs in the fleet. Some of these will be replace by B-21s but we don't really know yet how well that will be as the B-21 is being advertised as a better B-2.

The A-10 that the F-35 is replacing are in need of massive overhauls, upgrades, and increasing costs every year in maintenance. Yet people still cry for it to never be retired.

The C-5 is a mess after congress ordered the Air Force to not retire the C-5As thus wasting a bunch of cash maintaining them instead of replacing them(this has been turned around but the damage to the budget those years was done).

We are not buying more heavy lift aircraft even though we have already started retiring C-17s.

Special Air Mission needs new aircraft such as the replacement for the VC-25s(Air Force One).

Notice how none of these are fighters? While we are running around in circles with the F-35 build and the F-X, we still have massive amount of problems in the rest of the USAF. The longer we drag out the F-35 through political reviews and grandstanding the longer these other programs get left behind. USAF procurement has been turning around after years of failure but you wouldn't know it if all you did was listen to idiot that is coming into the White House in a month and his party.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: sy.gunson

F35 pilot...who has actual flight time in it.

“There is nothing that I have seen from maneuvering an F-35 in a tactical environment that leads me to assume that there is any other airplane I would rather be in. I feel completely comfortable and confident in taking that airplane into any combat environment,” Lt. Col. Matt Hayden, 56th Fighter Wing, Chief of Safety, Luke AFB, Arizona, told Scout Warrior in a special pilot interview.

Guess who I'm going to trust to evaluate new technology. The guys who are going to take the things into combat.

Like any new technology, the F35 is going to have teething problems. Happens to every single piece of new hardware.

Because Lt. Col. Matt Hayden has flown F-35B and successfully fired an IR missile after a supersonic approach?

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: sy.gunson

F35 pilot...who has actual flight time in it.

“There is nothing that I have seen from maneuvering an F-35 in a tactical environment that leads me to assume that there is any other airplane I would rather be in. I feel completely comfortable and confident in taking that airplane into any combat environment,” Lt. Col. Matt Hayden, 56th Fighter Wing, Chief of Safety, Luke AFB, Arizona, told Scout Warrior in a special pilot interview.

Guess who I'm going to trust to evaluate new technology. The guys who are going to take the things into combat.

Like any new technology, the F35 is going to have teething problems. Happens to every single piece of new hardware.

Because Lt. Col. Matt Hayden has flown F-35B and successfully fired an IR missile after a supersonic approach?

Did anyone say that the F-35 is prefect right now with no problems or that is 100% combat capable at this time?

For ease of maintenance reasons Lockheed Martin placed equipment and cables inside the weapons bays. Some of this equipment is not rated for the environment inside the weapon bays under certain conditions. So for now they avoid those conditions, until one or a combination of three things happen:

i. Analysis and testing is complete which shows that the existing design is okay.
ii. The equipment is redesigned.
iii. The services and partner nations accept performance reductions.

a reply to: Pyle


So the 'idiot' wants us out of the ME when Isis is finished with and says the 4 Trillion we've spent over there could have taken care of every need the U.S. faces today and wants to rein in the costs of our MIC and rebuild our military. (Can it be rebuilt without reining in the MIC to some degree? Doubt it.)

Give me more 'idiocy'.

He's put Boeing and LM on notice. No decisions have been made. He has ultra talented military people in his cabinet who will speak their minds. The money is going to increase, so calling Trump an idiot when we've suffered through the last few REAL idiots when nothing has been decided is Idi...err wrong, IMO.

This cannot be argued however, two separate 6th Gen. projects almost assuredly kills the other areas in the Air Force that needs addressing money-wise. Not any department is going to get everything it wants. Never has, never will. The navy and Army both need funds as well.

Want your cake and eat it, too? Don't bet on it.

Just thinking that the Russian and Chinese are not staying watching , look at the news : Anti satellite weapon test this week ok , so don't you think that a 6th gen will be soon a necessity ? USAF must walking fast now to keep the dominance of the sky in the decade to come , 6th gen will be an absolut need , like the B-21. USAF need to clean the sky for the futur and for now the F-35 and F-22 in a decade will be plane in the middle of their life and no realy sure to clean the sky for the guys fighting on the ground. The life and freedom have no price so ok it cost a lot but people must knowing that the technology cost a lot , some guys are crying that defense cost a lot but put 1000 $ in a ridiculous smart-phone its laughable .

originally posted by: darksidius
Just thinking that the Russian and Chinese are not staying watching , look at the news : Anti satellite weapon test this week ok , so don't you think that a 6th gen will be soon a necessity ? USAF must walking fast now to keep the dominance of the sky in the decade to come , 6th gen will be an absolut need , like the B-21. USAF need to clean the sky for the futur and for now the F-35 and F-22 in a decade will be plane in the middle of their life and no realy sure to clean the sky for the guys fighting on the ground. The life and freedom have no price so ok it cost a lot but people must knowing that the technology cost a lot , some guys are crying that defense cost a lot but put 1000 $ in a ridiculous smart-phone its laughable .

You well very may be right.

Do you doubt we can do it better, with more efficiency and therefore less cost than we are now? That shaking up the comfort zone of our Corporate, political and military leaders isn't needed?

We face a near collapsing nation. NOW. A near non-existent industrial base. The one the funds our military. Ten years down the road, eh? I hope we even get ten years down the road. Trump will address this. It will take time. We ARE at war. It is economic in nature.

I'm not saying ignore that future possibility. I AM saying myopia, militarily, is also not in our overall interests.

Balance.

a reply to: nwtrucker
You say "collapsing nation" no, no trust me for sure USA is stil the better place to be on earth there is difficult like anywhere but you must be confident in your country , if you don't trust me I invite you to travel and see the difficulty we have for now US in Europe after that for sure you will be confident in USA. Im confident that USAF is and will stay the better Air Force in the world and program like B-21 , F-35 , 6th gen fighter and surely toys we don't know about must invite US citizen to be proud of USAF.

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: sy.gunson

F35 pilot...who has actual flight time in it.

“There is nothing that I have seen from maneuvering an F-35 in a tactical environment that leads me to assume that there is any other airplane I would rather be in. I feel completely comfortable and confident in taking that airplane into any combat environment,” Lt. Col. Matt Hayden, 56th Fighter Wing, Chief of Safety, Luke AFB, Arizona, told Scout Warrior in a special pilot interview.

Guess who I'm going to trust to evaluate new technology. The guys who are going to take the things into combat.

Like any new technology, the F35 is going to have teething problems. Happens to every single piece of new hardware.

Because Lt. Col. Matt Hayden has flown F-35B and successfully fired an IR missile after a supersonic approach?

Did anyone say that the F-35 is prefect right now with no problems or that is 100% combat capable at this time?

Lt. Col. Matt Hayden said:

I feel completely comfortable and confident in taking that airplane into any combat environment

So what is it now?

originally posted by: darksidius
a reply to: nwtrucker
You say "collapsing nation" no, no trust me for sure USA is stil the better place to be on earth there is difficult like anywhere but you must be confident in your country , if you don't trust me I invite you to travel and see the difficulty we have for now US in Europe after that for sure you will be confident in USA. Im confident that USAF is and will stay the better Air Force in the world and program like B-21 , F-35 , 6th gen fighter and surely toys we don't know about must invite US citizen to be proud of USAF.

Of course, there's worse nations than the U.S.. Nothing in your post changes the fact that the role and responsibility the U.S. has worn, it's standard of living and example it set, has been blown out of the water.

Who and how do they get paid for if the economy isn't address first and foremost? This isn't the Reagan era, financially. I'm not even saying these programs aren't the way to go. Just don't hang one's hat on ten years down the road. If we don't do this right, judiciously, we may not get 10 years down the road. At least in anything remotely close to the nation we grew up in.

We could end up losing this war without a further shot being fired!

I understand this forum is military orientated. Hell, I AM. All I'm saying is the nation, overall, is of senior concern than any branch, service or department. I also believe the right man is in charge and the Titans of Industry, the magnificent Military people Trump has appointed will approach this outside the box and will get results.

If that means delaying a program, cancelling another one or resurrecting still another, then sobeit.

a reply to: nwtrucker
For sure , we must wait and see , and i m confident that compromise will stay USAF the best one

a reply to: darksidius

Have a great Christmas to you and yours.


All of you guys....NOTHING BUT THE BEST.

a reply to: nwtrucker
You too Merry Christmas for all , god food and lot of gift