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Trump: The USAF, F-22,F-35 Vs 6th Gen.

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posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: nwtrucker

This is actually pretty amusing. Back in 2008 there was much speculation and claims by Obama supporters (one was named Obamanite) that Obama was going to cancel the F-35 and instead ramp up production of the F-22.



I never heard that one. Kind of surprising.




posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 09:00 PM
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Now Trump wants Boeing to price out a Super Hornet comparable to the F-35. Which is funny, because they can't replace the B with them, and the Air Force has never shown the least interest in them. And if they could make them comparable, it would take more years of development.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
Now Trump wants Boeing to price out a Super Hornet comparable to the F-35. Which is funny, because they can't replace the B with them, and the Air Force has never shown the least interest in them. And if they could make them comparable, it would take more years of development.


What isn't going to take years of development to improve/fix the situation. This isn't an overnight job.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

It isn't? Really? Thank you so much for explaining that!

There's a big difference between having an aircraft in hand, that has reached IOC, and is in production, and an aircraft that will take 5-10 more years to reach that point when it comes to fixing the problem. We have lost 7 Hornets in the last year. You think waiting years for a more advanced Hornet that might get in the ballpark of the F-35 is a good idea?

The F-35 is what we have, and it's already past IOC. Instead of cutting them and replacing them with something not as capable, they need to start full rate production.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58
Don't you think of Boeing can accelerate the F/X or FA/XX instead , if it take 10 years to have an Advanced Hornet it will be in competition with the F/X and this year Boeing show a concept of the 6th gen fighter.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: darksidius

That's what they should be doing. They need to move the RFI up, and drop the RFP sooner rather than later. The ASH has only done wind tunnel and RCS testing so far. If they have to add systems to bring it up closer to the F-35, that's going to need R&D and engineering time to change, which means more ground testing, and more time before it flies.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58


I don't think the F-35 program should stop. Continue it until we have another viable alternative, then look at reducing/cutting the program. Not before.

Again, it could be a sixth Gen., an upgraded F-22 or something else entirely.

So far it's nothing but rhetoric and the opening chess move...a wake up call, so to speak. Do you have a problem with that? Like it's not needed?



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Have I said I have a problem with that? How many times in the last 5+ years have I practically screamed they have to get costs across the board down.

Just doing something to bring the costs down is an insane idea however. The RIGHT moves need to be done to both bring them down and give us the best capabilities we can get.
edit on 12/23/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: nwtrucker

Have I said I have a problem with that? How many times in the last 5+ years have I practically screamed they have to get costs across the board down.

Just doing something to bring the costs down is an insane idea however. The RIGHT moves need to be done to both bring them down and give us the best capabilities we can get.


Then tweet Trump and have him make YOU Sec of the Air force....



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker
For sure it will be a good idea
I can sign too if it need




posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

I'd rather see him not tweeting everything that comes into his head, and following through on his promise to let the war fighters make the decisions. Make changes like the Air Force has been, and make contracts fixed price, instead of cost plus. There are other ways to bring costs down than this.
edit on 12/23/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: nwtrucker

I'd rather see him not tweeting everything that comes into his head, and following through on his promise to let the war fighters make the decisions. Make changes like the Air Force has been, and make contracts fixed price, instead of cost plus. There are other ways to bring costs down than this.


I believe you are grossly underestimating him if you think he tweets everything that comes into his head.

First and foremost, the comfort zone of the people in this machine needs to be shaken up, if not broken, outright. Next, the war fighters make war fighting decisions, not financial ones.

Finally, do not ignore the point that this IS rhetoric, an opening salvo intended to shake up people. When decisions are actually made and implemented then the fun will really start. Debate-wise.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I agree that Trump should just give the twitter account over to his social media people. I really do think he's just rattling sabers though. Wants people in the industry to start coming to pay him tribute. While the media is worried about what all the Hollywood gentry are upset about he wants the real power players to start getting in line. Within hours of him tweeting these rants the CEOs of these companies are making phone calls to him or trying to get to NY to meet with him.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Yes, the war fighters are the ones that pull the trigger. You know what else they do? They figure out what they need to win those wars when they do have to pull the trigger. They figure out what they need to go against those defenses they're going to have to go up against, while others sit back safe at home. They're the ones figuring out how to do three times as much, with five times less. Who exactly do you think goes to the civilian side and says, "We need this" or "we need to upgrade with this"? The civilian side makes budget recommendations based on what the military side says.

This is rhetoric, right up until he starts telling someone to start developing something because he doesn't like what he hears in that meeting. Boeing is spending real money to work on a new Hornet to do what he asked. Is he going to reimburse them for that, when the F-35 keeps going?

Again, there are other, better ways to get costs down than Twitter. Do not exceed contracts, like the KC-46 and the future carriers are one great way. Yes, he's a business man, that doesn't mean he's automatically a genius in every aspect of business. You don't take a high ranking McDonald's executive and put them in charge at Boeing, without giving them at least some training in the industry.
edit on 12/23/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

How patronizing....sonny. seeing you've never pulled a trigger.

You claim to have the 'correct' solutions....or someone feeding them to you. Our military is designed to be controlled by the civilian population. The lessor of two evil, from what I can see. Well, in theory anyway.

Give Trump a chance. It can't be screwed up any worse than it is now. He has serious players both military and civilian advising him. I assume more knowledgeable than thee or me. He will approach this outside the box and that's why he won. Will you or I like everything he and HIS people come up with. HELL NO.

He hasn't done a damn thing, yet and your complaining non-stop. Whoever it is your 'connected' to is in for a severe reality adjustment. I, for one, take pleasure in it.

edit on 23-12-2016 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I am not the avation expert, but on another thread, I think it was you who posted a link or two that contained interviews from pilots who were test flying the F-35. Their reports were very impressive! You might want to post them again.

Based upon those interviews, I support the F-35 program and would suggest that on a cost benefit analysis which factors in the present value of money approach, these planes are not that over priced. Two things come to mind. First the innovations being baked into these planes will make future development less expensive. Second, knowing that todays dollar will be worth less in the future means its makes more sense to pay to develop these technologies now rather than later.

Another thing to consider is that if the US continues to vigorously pursue absolute dominance of air space, it operates to discourage another country from attaking or confronting the US. War is a lot more expensive than the cost of deterrence.

Just my 2 cents.
Thanks.
edit on 23-12-2016 by TonyS because: sp



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

You know what, you seem to suddenly be the expert, so sure, whatever you say.
edit on 12/23/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58


Real, quality rebut.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 05:19 PM
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edit on 12/23/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

He at least seems to know what needs fixing, unlike some herein who insist that going with old, nearly if not already, obsolete technology is the way to go.

Personally, I think Zaph would make a hella SecAF...he at least would listen to the kids who are going to be flying these things into harms way.



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