It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

We Now Sanction What We Once Condemned

page: 3
0
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 10:07 AM
link   
Take a minute a really listen to what this man is saying.. it applies to us, especially in these times.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

-Pastor Martin Niemöller, 1945




posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 11:33 AM
link   
Wow, do you really believe that the current U.S. looks like the former U.S.S.R. under Stalin?

When we start sending political exiles to South Dakota or Montana, let me know.
You were interesting, but now you're a bit on the fringe -- kind of like some of your news sources. Not that they are not giving truth, but rather because they (you) tend to make extreme statements without that much real thought into it. Almost like propaganda, if you will ... 'if you don't carpool, you're riding with Hitler.'



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 12:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by radardog
Wow, do you really believe that the current U.S. looks like the former U.S.S.R. under Stalin?


Well.. let's see, I remember a time, not so long ago, when disappearing citizens, taking away their rights as citizens and detaining them into perpetuity without legal recourse was something we accused the Soviets of. This is now a practice prerogative of King George. He also feels that no one has the right to question his authority on these matters. You see no tryanny in that?



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 11:34 PM
link   


Well.. let's see, I remember a time, not so long ago, when disappearing citizens, taking away their rights as citizens and detaining them into perpetuity without legal recourse was something we accused the Soviets of. This is now a practice prerogative of King George. He also feels that no one has the right to question his authority on these matters. You see no tryanny in that?


What disappearing citizens? We have only detained noncitizens into perpetuity without legal recourse. The patriot act hasn't even been contested in the supreme court, and mostly deals with with legal and illegal aliens (if you go through the fine print). The odd thing about the patriot act is that it in and of itself isn't much of a law. It's actually a collection of changes to previous laws -- don't let the analysts fool you on that part.

Since the supreme court interprets the constitution (not you), then only it can say objectively that rights are lost because of the patriot act (thus rendering it unconstitutional).



"The high court has made it clear it will limit its decision to the narrow but key legal question of whether the Guantanamo detainees—all of them non-US citizens and mostly Muslims seized in Afghanistan nearly two years ago—have a right to seek redress in US courts to their being held incommunicado by the US government."
www.wsws.org...
(emphasis added)


The last time we detained citizens in the manner you described was in WWII (Japanese Americans), and the republicans were not in control of the country at the time.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 10:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by radardog
What disappearing citizens? We have only detained noncitizens into perpetuity without legal recourse


The last time I checked, Jose Padilla and that other guy (can't remember his name) were US citizens. There have been others as well. Most have been let go - that we know of. We, Joe and Jill public, will never really know, however. This administration will not answer to anyone in these matters.

Goose Creek, SC (Navy brig) anyone?



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 11:30 AM
link   
Jose Padilla was declared an enemy combatant, and thus is argued to be outside the US civil justice system. This will be settled in the courts, which is the American way -- nothing unamerican about that. The last I heard, release order by a lower court has been appealed. When the enemy won't wear an obvious uniform, these things get harder to pan out.

The "American Taliban" was charged in federal court.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 11:39 AM
link   
The Patriot Act has basically voided certain ammendments to the constitution. Being a US citizen no longer protects the individual from undue process. If the administration labels you a terrorist, or terrorist sympathizer, you're pretty much screwed. And worse than that, once you're labled, you can count on the media to parrot the government's position, basically cementing your fate in the mind of Americans. Take a look at this case. It's worth pondering...



February 14, 2005

The Lynne Stewart Verdict
Stretching the Definition of "Terrorism" to New Limits
By ELAINE CASSEL

On February 10, after thirteen days of deliberations, a federal jury in New York City returned a guilty verdict in the case of 65-year-old attorney Lynne Stewart. The jury found Stewart guilty on five counts of defrauding the government, conspiracy, and providing support for terrorism.

Stewart will be sentenced on July 15. She may serve up to thirty years in prison. Appeals are expected to consume years. In the meantime, Stewart will lose her right to practice law and face hard prison time.

The eavesdropping on attorney-client communications that led to this prosecution would have been unimaginable before September 11. I will argue that this eavesdropping has a serious cost in inhibiting defense attorney's ability to zealously represent their clients. This cost is of a constitutional dimension: The Sixth Amendment's right to counsel cannot be served while the government is a third party present at attorney-client meetings.

Another problematic aspect of the Stewart prosecution is how far the definition of support for terrorism was stretched. Stewart never provided any financial support, weaponry -- or any other concrete aid -- for any act of terrorism. No act of terrorism is alleged to have resulted from her actions.
www.counterpunch.org...


It's interesting.. so many of my views (hardline stances) on issues have changed post- 9-11 and after the introduction of the ridiculously named Patriot Act. I once denounced organisations like the ACLU, for being bastions of Godless liberalism (think: cold war mindset LIBERAL=Commie). Now, I see how valuable an organisation like that truly is. (Even stalwart conservative Republican Bob Barr agrees w/me here.) It is so valuable that, as the above article demonstrates, these Defense lawyers are literally placing themselves in danger to defend those being accused (in matters of terrorism).

This administration has done more to side-step and ignore the constitution, not to mention the Geneva Conventions, than any other administration in US history. This power grab would probably cause our founding fathers Thomas Jefferson and George Washington to urge US citizens to throw this George out on his a$$. At whatever cost.


The tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 11:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by radardog
When the enemy won't wear an obvious uniform, these things get harder to pan out.


That's easy to say when you're the big dog.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 12:51 PM
link   
Even if you're against the patriot act, one shouldn't blame the Administration for it: It's everyone's fault. The patriot act had nearly full support of everyone in congress. It's not just a republican power grab.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 01:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by radardog
Even if you're against the patriot act, one shouldn't blame the Administration for it: It's everyone's fault. The patriot act had nearly full support of everyone in congress. It's not just a republican power grab.


Actually it was already drafted, waiting to go when the attacks of 9-11 occurred.

If you've read many of my posts, you would know I have no love for either party at this point. They've pretty much both been bought. People really need to get away from this Republican vs. Democrat crap. It's nothing more than a means of control. The ol divide and conquer routine.



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 04:19 AM
link   
The Nazis rewarded the Bush Family $10's of millions of dollars for their support of the Nazis.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join