LENR - Cold Fusion is real!

a reply to: LonnyZone

Rossi is a proven fraud scam artist. He's claimed for YEARS he has working models .. just send him money and soon it will be available.

Here is a good run down on LENR about what is and is not. They correct a "news" item on "cold fusion" and several mistakes made in that report.

Newenergytimes.net - Correcting the LENR Record (Chemical & Engineering News).

Basically, you get 1x to 3x more heat than the electricity supplied (so there you go, nothing is being "fused" at room temperature). Not a real "get rich quick" but more of a "get rich slow" plan. You would get better returns on those diamond batteries that actually work.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: LonnyZone

Rossi is a proven fraud scam artist. He's claimed for YEARS he has working models .. just send him money and soon it will be available.

Yeah, don't want to go too much off topic, but from what I've heard Rossi is currently suing an investor as they've pulled the plug. And they are suing back. Seems like he milked them for something like $11 million.

If there is a thing he is good at, it would be separating fools from their money.

a reply to: moebius

Good for him. Anyone that foolish deserves to lose their money.

Yeah he made a pretty convincing scam, he got me about 60/40 believing that the E-Cat works to some capacity as a LENR device. I'm still going to hold hope for it (yes I want to believe..) because of the idea to bring green tech to the masses.

Industrial Heat did the deal for the 1MW test-plant. My understanding is that they didn't believe it achieved its goal and then continued to file patents for the technology. I think Rossi has won the right to keep his patents.

E-Cat at work

He has a small team of nerdy looking scientists with pipes and things..what more evidence do we need?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

That says "for Fission Power System" so it destroys your whole argument asking why would they build such a device for LENR if it didn't work. They built that for fission.

ntrs.nasa.gov...
Page 18. The Free-stirling engine as a proposed 'future' power-source. Which is the reason I linked the 'free stirling' document, I wanted to show that they are making real progress in building a foundation that might one day include LENR instead of traditional fission. Or a D/Pd (Deuterium/Palladium?) power source as described.
And yes, I'm aware that is says for a 'fission power system' However, NASA have confirmed they intend to continue LENR research for future mission capabilities outlined in the document listed lower down the page.

You haven't showed me a LENR machine because there isn't one that works; that link is a fission powered machine.

You say there isn't one that works quite surely. But you don't acknowledge the achievements of very notable people actively researching this area and should understand they might not want to show off their best work yet while the market is still open. Here's a list of LENR related researchers/companies: condensed-plasmoids.com...
Some serious players in that market.
This video from Brillouin's website: player.vimeo.com...
These guys also a big player to watch: www.nichenergy.com...
I could keep pasting examples, but these two are quite credible imo if you look at who their clients are in 2015/2016.

Again that's a fission powered device and fission is a functional technology.

I'm aware that they state its 'fission' powered. However, the LENR GRC PDF (page 18) did describe the future device as a potential use for LENR back then. And now they have a functioning and semi-refined prototype of that device which is a big step towards adapting it to other newer technologies which is apparently NASA's goal if you read their latest texts. So it may be fission now, but they state clearly that their goal is to eliminate dangerous fission and replace with green and safe alternatives such as LENR.

Published in 2014 from the NASA Technical Reports Server: Application of LENR to Synergistic Mission Capabilities

Summary from the NASA document header:
This paper presents an overview of several missions that exploit the capabilities of a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) aircraft propulsion system. LENR is a form of nuclear energy and potentially has over 4,000 times the energy density of chemical energy sources. It does not have any harmful emissions or radiation which makes it extremely appealing. The global reliance on crude oil for aircraft energy creates the opportunity for a revolutionary change with LENR. LENR will impact aircraft performance capabilities, military capabilities, the environment, the economy, and society. Although there is a lot of interest in LENR, there is no proven theory that explains it. Some of the technical challenges are thermal runaway and start-up time.

So its still not explainable what exactly is going with the excess heat but they state quite clearly LENR will make an impact for the better. And this is just what they can publicly tell us.
That's good enough for me to believe in it as I rate NASA's research top dog!

but if you were going to argue this point you would need to provide some better reason than "I don't think so", and nickel isn't even the fuel for Rossi's device so I don't think you even know what the replacement cartridge would contain which doesn't put you in a position to assess saleability.

From Fortune magazine via Coldfusion3.com

It is easy to see why the super wealthy are so interested in fusion if it ever works it could equal big money. Fortune noted that one tablespoon of liquid hydrogen fuel in a working hot fusion reactor would produce as much energy as 28 tons of coal.

Thats a problem for the coal industry. 28 tons of coal costs quite a bit, and to think you can equal or better sales with LENR fuel (Nickel and Hydrogen) doesn't add up to me. And yes Nickel is listed on Rossi's website as one of the metals in the cartridge fuel he's proposed. ecat.com... Please do your research before telling me I don't know what I'm on about.

Thanks for the debate though..

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
Here is a good run down on LENR about what is and is not. They correct a "news" item on "cold fusion" and several mistakes made in that report.

Newenergytimes.net - Correcting the LENR Record (Chemical & Engineering News).

Basically, you get 1x to 3x more heat than the electricity supplied (so there you go, nothing is being "fused" at room temperature). Not a real "get rich quick" but more of a "get rich slow" plan. You would get better returns on those diamond batteries that actually work.

I don't know if that's 100% accurate but the part about Rossi being a scam artist is certainly correct. Anybody who has watched his experiment videos and still thinks Rossi is competent deserves to lose whatever money they invest, because he's not even a good hoaxer like Blacklight Power.

The article is probably also correct that any benefits found by other, more legitimate researchers are likely to be limited, but it's really hard to assess that part until we understand the true source of the anomalous heat production and I'm not as confident as that author that it's been conclusively determined.

originally posted by: LonnyZone
And yes Nickel is listed on Rossi's website as one of the metals in the cartridge fuel he's proposed. ecat.com... Please do your research before telling me I don't know what I'm on about.

I did the research, you're the one who hasn't, so let's review.

You said:

originally posted by: LonnyZone
only needs a new cartridge of nickel every 6 months?

I said:

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
nickel isn't even the fuel for Rossi's device so I don't think you even know what the replacement cartridge would contain which doesn't put you in a position to assess saleability.

That is correct, nickel is not the fuel. You didn't mention any fuel which is the bulk of what's needed to operate the device according to Rossi. I never said nickel wasn't in there, so my complaint about your only saying nickel is you're only mentioning one component of the cartridge which is not even the fuel as I said, and ignoring the fuel which you didn't mention at all earlier and even now that you finally mentioned hydrogen, I don't think "hydrogen" is an accurate description of "lithium and lithium aluminium hydride" as fuel.

The rest of your arguments are non-sequiturs, because the conclusions you're making don't follow from the sources you're citing but if it makes you happy to think they do go ahead and believe what you want.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I did the research, you're the one who hasn't, so let's review.

Maybe you didn't read the link I posted. I'll re-post it here for you:
The current fuel for LENR, nickel + hydrogen, is nearly limitless, the most abundant metal and the most abundant gas on earth. No combustion process takes place, instead the hydrogen is merged with nickel, which is transmuted to form copper + energy. LENR also appears possible using metals other than Nickel such as Palladium for instance.

I should be more concise when talking about science as I'm not a qualified Scientist, but I'm trying to get my vision across from the information I have personally correlated over the years. I don't always believe what I read, I try and quantify and rationalize it based on as much fact as I can find out about it from other sources. Yes E-cat had me going, ill admit and I'll leave the door open while I sit on the fence for this one. Lets leave it alone for now.

The rest of your arguments are non-sequiturs, because the conclusions you're making don't follow from the sources you're citing but if it makes you happy to think they do go ahead and believe what you want.

They make sense to me if you follow the reference links. And I'm sorry if I didn't get my point across sequentially. I'll try and quickly emphasize what I'm getting at:

LENR (as its broadly labeled) is real from the perspective of anomalous heat being generated, I believe based on the information and experiments I have seen/read. I also believe that the current hurdle with the technology is generating electricity efficiently from the heat. Once this technology is ironed out I think it could change the world for good. That's pretty much it and thank-you, I will believe what I want, I guess that's the beauty of freedom.

originally posted by: LonnyZone
The current fuel for LENR, nickel + hydrogen, is nearly limitless, the most abundant metal and the most abundant gas on earth. No combustion process takes place, instead the hydrogen is merged with nickel, which is transmuted to form copper + energy. LENR also appears possible using metals other than Nickel such as Palladium for instance.

Well the fact that palladium can be used means it doesn't have to be nickel, but nickel is all you mentioned at first, and you didn't mention that it's a very special kind of nickel which is porosity-enhanced.

That description of hydrogen is inadequate which is why I gave you a better link. Hydrogen is found in water so if you just say it runs on hydrogen that doesn't say where the hydrogen is coming from, is it coming from water or what? Again the link I gave you is more specific. Speaking of water, I didn't think people were stupid enough to pay for water when they get it for free out of the tap but they do, so it seems to me like the replacement cartridges would be an easy sell if the device actually worked, since it would seem a lot more marketable than printer ink or bottled water, both of which are big business.

originally posted by: Jukiodone
Well funded, adequately skilled parties have been onto this since at least the 90's.

Naval Research Laboratory paper from January 1996.

documents.theblackvault.com...

Here's good video on their research:

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: schuyler
So you found a document that you don't fully understand, therefore cold fusion works.

Oh dear god I think I've torn a muscle from laughing too hard. 90% of ATS science threads explained in one sentence!

Your response is exactly why people like you will never invent anything meaningful in the world (besides having children).

Just when you think you know everything there is something like this:

www.youtube.com...

What could possibly be causing this much energy to be recorded? Surely we could figure out a way to harvest this energy.

This is the best video I've found explaining how cold fusion (LENR) works:

www.youtube.com...

I know there are lot of skeptics reading this thread. But unless you are open minded to the possibility you will never agree it actually does exist. This video seems very plausible and has been verified as correct with many experiments and published papers as I stated in an earlier post in the thread. But for many people, they will never change their mind that the earth is flat.

Rossi is a total scam. However, Brillouin Energy seems like the real thing:

brillouinenergy.com...

There are two other fusion technology that seem just as if not more promising than LENR:

www.ted.com...

The Chinese are spending billions on a commercially viable LFTR prototype to be working by 2020. LFTR has its origins in a nuclear reactor design to be used in a nuclear powered airplane in the 1950s. But the Navy design won out because the waste products could be used to make nuclear weapons. It's okay, the Chinese will be selling LFTR reactors worldwide by 2025.

The other exciting fusion technology is the German's Wendelstein 7-X (W7-X) reactor is an experimental stellarator fusion reactor. It's been proven to work since last January:

www.popularmechanics.com...

It's ready for commercial production. It's so freaking cool I can't stand it. It could not be built without computers proving the design. And it could not be built without CNC created parts. How cool is that? The W7-X stellarator design is just breathtaking.

December 10th, 2015 is the stellarator's 1903 Wright Flyer moment:

www.world-nuclear-news.org...

If you can imagine how far airplane technology advanced from 1903 to 1913 or 1920 it is really breathtaking. It will not be long before fossil fuels become worthless. Most likely within our children's lifetimes.

Remarkable fidelity: phys.org...

originally posted by: dfnj2015
However, Brillouin Energy seems like the real thing:
...

Of course they are, just like the predecessor Profusion Energy.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I didnt know LENR also stood for "Lattice Enabled Nuclear Reactions".
I'd heard of "Lattice Enabled Nanoscale Reactions" and thought that was weird it had the same acronym as "Low Energy Nuclear Reaction" but 3 descriptors with the same letters is just plain confusing.

a reply to: Jukiodone

"Low Energy Nuclear Reaction" but 3 descriptors with the same letters is just plain confusing.

I think its called Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions LANR which makes it a bit easier to differentiate.

a reply to: dfnj2015

It's ready for commercial production.

I don't think that's what the article meant. I think it means that its a proven concept and now they have to refine it for efficiency to reach ignition.

from the article:

Unfortunately, current fusion reactors, including the W7-X, are still not efficient enough to produce more energy than they use. However, the success of W7-X gives the researchers hope that the next generation of fusion reactors will be able to reach that limit.

It's so freaking cool I can't stand it. It could not be built without computers proving the design. And it could not be built without CNC created parts.

I love the design of the Tokamak too, its quite a feat of engineering. I would love to see the mechanical and structural BIM models they created for these things.

originally posted by: LonnyZone
a reply to: dfnj2015

It's ready for commercial production.

I don't think that's what the article meant. I think it means that its a proven concept and now they have to refine it for efficiency to reach ignition.

from the article:

Unfortunately, current fusion reactors, including the W7-X, are still not efficient enough to produce more energy than they use. However, the success of W7-X gives the researchers hope that the next generation of fusion reactors will be able to reach that limit.

It's so freaking cool I can't stand it. It could not be built without computers proving the design. And it could not be built without CNC created parts.

I love the design of the Tokamak too, its quite a feat of engineering. I would love to see the mechanical and structural BIM models they created for these things.

The Tokamak designs are a huge waste of money. The Tokamak is a big POS.

This article has implications: phys.org...

"Results showed a remarkable fidelity to the design of the highly complex magnetic field. "To our knowledge," the authors write of the discrepancy of less than one part in 100,000, "this is an unprecedented accuracy, both in terms of the as-built engineering of a fusion device, as well as in the measurement of magnetic topology."

Now that the magnetic containment has been proven effective they can run the device for real. Once it shows a huge net positive output people will begin building commercial reactors. Or do you think the Germans spent 2 billion dollars so people like you can make skeptical comments from the peanut gallery? I don't think so.

Tokamak lost. Stellarator won.

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: dfnj2015
However, Brillouin Energy seems like the real thing:
...

Of course they are, just like the predecessor Profusion Energy.

Not even close. Here's a list of peered reviewed published papers:

brillouinenergy.com...

Everyone bitches and moans when there's not good science. And then when there's good science they still want to believe the earth is flat. People are just amazingly stubborn and ignorant.

a reply to: dfnj2015

The Tokamak designs are a huge waste of money. The Tokamak is a big POS.

Actually you wouldn't have the Stellarator without the Tokamak. The Stellarator is a variant of the Tokamak design which is my understanding. And I only said I like the design, in which i meant the look of it..Both serious hardware.

Or do you think the Germans spent 2 billion dollars so people like you can make skeptical comments from the peanut gallery? I don't think so.

Hahah calm down man, I don't think I made any skeptical comments, Not sure what your referring to there.
The quote I pasted in comes from the article YOU posted!