Confused Truther physics with regards to Aircraft & Building impacts.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

YOU haven't put anything of your own forward except conspiracy clichés like fire only being responsible you like others ignore the STUCTURAL DAMAGE

I never said I thought fire alone was responsible and I can see the damage quite clearly every time the video runs. Additionally, you only seem to focus on one piece of a very larger puzzle, thus in turn ignoring other valid points.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

YOU haven't put anything of your own forward except conspiracy clichés like fire only being responsible you like others ignore the STUCTURAL DAMAGE

Catastrophic structural damage at the location of the impact does not account for the way the towers entirely collapsed.

This is the founding principle of why there is any doubt at all.

Korg.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

YOU haven't put anything of your own forward except conspiracy clichés like fire only being responsible you like others ignore the STUCTURAL DAMAGE

Catastrophic structural damage at the location of the impact does not account for the way the towers entirely collapsed.

This is the founding principle of why there is any doubt at all.

Korg.

Here some facts for you to chew on I am just in from work and it's 8:30 pm here so will be back on later.

Floor slabs 42,000 sq feet 4.5 inches thick concrete density for floor slab mix 115 per cubic foot

Total cubic feet in on slab 15750 x115 lbs= 1,811,250 pounds.

2000 lbs in an American short ton so 905 TONS that's just one floor slab.

South Tower impact 31 floors above impact area so 31 x 905 = 28,074 tons (not accounting for the service floors thicker concrete) 96,000 tons of steel in the frame as a whole so probably at least 25,000 ton + in the 31 floors for that.

When the collapse started a floor dropping 12 feet the space between floors would reach 8 mph.

So 53,000 + tons of just the steel and concrete hit the floor slab below only an idiot would expect that structure to survive

originally posted by: wmd_2008

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

YOU haven't put anything of your own forward except conspiracy clichés like fire only being responsible you like others ignore the STUCTURAL DAMAGE

Catastrophic structural damage at the location of the impact does not account for the way the towers entirely collapsed.

This is the founding principle of why there is any doubt at all.

Korg.

Here some facts for you to chew on I am just in from work and it's 8:30 pm here so will be back on later.

Floor slabs 42,000 sq feet 4.5 inches thick concrete density for floor slab mix 115 per cubic foot

Total cubic feet in on slab 15750 x115 lbs= 1,811,250 pounds.

2000 lbs in an American short ton so 905 TONS that's just one floor slab.

South Tower impact 31 floors above impact area so 31 x 905 = 28,074 tons (not accounting for the service floors thicker concrete) 96,000 tons of steel in the frame as a whole so probably at least 25,000 ton + in the 31 floors for that.

When the collapse started a floor dropping 12 feet the space between floors would reach 8 mph.

So 53,000 + tons of just the steel and concrete hit the floor slab below only an idiot would expect that structure to survive

Here is a fact for you to chew on...

Neither the Pancake or the piledriver (the OS) can explain an acceleration of collapse... or how something with less mass can pass through something with more mass as though it were not there.

Demonstration.... trust me the Physics is accurate....



The only way and I mean ONLY way the towers would collapse as they did was if the supports for each floor were removed before the material above could land onto them and therefore experience no resistance.

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

How are the FLOORS fixed to the structure do you know ?

ANYTHING landing on a FLOOR SLAB can only be supported by the TRUSS SEATS that hold that floor .

It didn't fall at free fall watch the videos.

Also before posting model videos go look up the Square Cube Law and find out why the model is more BS

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Korg Trinity

How are the FLOORS fixed to the structure do you know ?

ANYTHING landing on a FLOOR SLAB can only be supported by the TRUSS SEATS that hold that floor .

It didn't fall at free fall watch the videos.

Also before posting model videos go look up the Square Cube Law and find out why the model is more BS

I understand your reaction. It is a typical knee jerk response of someone like yourself when being faced with indisputable scientific information that contravenes your personal beliefs.

No math from anywhere can explain away the law of conservation of energy...

There simply was not enough potential energy even after the additional energy of the impact itself has been taken into account to pulverise the entire building including the steel core.

This is the central issue....

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Funny, the steel was bent and mangled. Not pulverized

So, a total of 500,000 tons collapsing 110 stories with the equivalent energy release of 600 tons of TNT detected by seismic activity 30 miles away didn't have the hardened material, power, and velocity to pulverize the victims trapped in the towers, drywall, the skim coat of the concrete floors, and thin metal objects.

Especially in the context OSHA studies show a person simply being bumped my a 6,000 pound fork truck into a wall shatters the bones caught in the impact injury.

I think you are on the loosing end of this item of debate.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Sorry but THAT video is in total ERROR each individual FLOOR SLAB is subject to excessive load it has NO resistance from the floor below think of it as a vertical avalanche.

PANCAKE collapse has happened before so why don't you let the IDIOT on that video explain this example you to you, make contact ask him to explain this.



You see this is not a simple 2 mass problem that a these physics guys with NO construction or PRACTICAL experience can understand.

Tell the families of the dead construction workers from the above photograph that a top down floor collapse can not reach ground level.

In the example above the top slab (ONLY ONE) dropped on the next and made it all the way to the ground according to your posted video that could not have happened.

So IMAGINE 3I SLABS and ALL THE STEEL WORK from above the impact zone on the South Tower dropping.

Have you looked up the Square Cube Law yet re the video of the model NO comment on that I see

a reply to: Korg Trinity

It's has very little to due with shear speed. Everything to do with the hardness of the human body vs steel, furniture, and concrete tumbling together for up to 110 stories.

All striking the ground in a sliding and grinding pile.

A two hundred pound body against 500,000 tons of building in addition to the extra weight of office equipment.

I really hate the pilots lack the skills argument.

You are saying amateur pilots with some formal training manage to crash jets on a clear and sunny day. But it is more than that.

In the context of the WTC. You had dedicated individuals who took flight lessons for one specific purpose. They trained and ran repeated simulations of their target runs.

Excluding the emergency shoulders, the width of the actively used portion of a landing strip is usually150 ft wide. WTC 1 and 2 were 200 feet wide to a side and 110 stories tall.

So it was impossible for individuals to train and use simulations, using already in the air jets, on a calm and clear day, to successful crash into some of the tallest buildings in New York that had widths comparable to a landing strip?

a reply to: Chadwickus

My point was that the way the buildings were designed, the core could hold up the building on it's own, without the perimeter wall.

The central core of WTC towers was designed to support some 60 % of the building structure

a reply to: Korg Trinity

It is startling to think that inexperienced pilots with little more than home computer flight sim and a single prop training could take the helm of such aircraft the size and sophistication as they did and strike all targets as accurately as they did.

There are many many many airline/military pilots with many thousands of hours of professional flight time that have said this was highly highly improbable if not entirely impossible.

Modern jet airliners have precise navigation systems - the hijackers did not need to use them as the day was extremely clear and visibility was unlimited

WTC towers were 2 of the largest buildings in the world - visible for 50 miles on a clear day (as it was that day...)

The buildings were right on the coast, at the junction of a large river (Hudson) and the Atlantic ocean

The Hijackers would only need to execute a right turn toward the south and follow the Hudson River (American 11) to the WTC

Or turn east to the coast , then north up the coast to the WTC (United 175) - by this time the North tower was on fire
and the smoke would have provided a beacon....

a reply to: PillarOfFire

DESIGNATED SURVIVOR does not deal with 9/11

It is about a low ranking Cabinet member (one who was about to be fired by the president), who during the
State of the Union speech is at an off site location away from the Capitol as the "DESIGNANTED SURVIVOR"

It is their "job" , so to speak, is be away from the Capitol during the speech to assume the office of president
should the rest of the cabinet and others in the line of succession be killed

During the speech the Capitol is destroyed by a bomb and the entire Congress, Supreme Court, President, Vice
President and cabinet are killed leaving him in charge

Interesting premise......

a reply to: Korg Trinity

You cannot present counter arguments and evidence?

So you:

One, use self reassuring reasoning the problem is not me.

Two, use a rant and innuendo.

Three, never giving a clear and outlined theory how the towers collapse to replace contracting inward bowing of vertical columns?

Let's use CD for example....

Is this right......

The witnessed collapse speed of the towers needed CD. Each floor of each tower needed one charge per inner core floor connection per inner core column. Each charge required drilling and tapping to the columns.


Not sure how the ignition system requiring precession timing survived the jet impacts which severed elevator and fire water header service. A ignition system able to corrrect for the inconsistencies in thermite burn times. As much as a 15 second variant in burn time per charge.

Not sure how the presence of a detonation system for hundreds of charges was robust enough to survive the fires, but not found in the hand search for evidence in the WTC debris.

Amazing that a never before CD of a high rise office building over fifty floors took place successfully twice in one day.

Amazing a never before top down demolition of a high rise office building successfully took place twice in one day.

Amazing inconsistent burning thermite was used for the first time successfully twice in one day for the first ever CD of buildings over 50 floors with a perfectly floor by floor top down sequence?

My two favorite WTC CD theories.

The WTC buildings had self destruct systems.
Either nukes in the foundation or rebar covered in C-4.


All the fire extinguishers in the buildings replaced with bombs.

a reply to: Korg Trinity



You don't see the problem with his experiment in the video? The structural integrity of his model is independent of the floors. In a building when the floor collapses it decreases the structural integrity og the steel beams holding the building up. if he had built a model where the outside supports could move he would have had entirely different results. One a floor comes off the trusses its going to effect the floor below it in his model that is impossible.

In his second model even worse he arrests motion with his poles attempting any simulation hes added a lot of resistance through friction. Now as far as explosions out I would expect that its called explosive decompression don't know if its ever been mentioned. But just from a physics standpoint if a floor collapses air has to go somewhere and it would send a force to the exterior walls. In this case they are also providing the support for the building, Meaning exterior support would have downward and also outward force applied. I can tell you by the time one floor starts moving the exterior walls on the next floor would already be in motion. Also this internal pressure in the building would continue to increase as more air is compressed in the collapse. This is easy to account for in a computer model difficult in any small scale model because you cant recreate the air pressure without actually building a full scale model.

Ill say this about the video seems he doesn't understand physics several mistakes made in his logic like thinking you can use materials with different strengths to replicate the building collapse. In order to replicate results you have to use the same materials using the same volume and mass. Short of building a WTC for an experiment it can be replicated on computer.

originally posted by: neutronflux
My two favorite WTC CD theories.

The WTC buildings had self destruct systems.
Either nukes in the foundation or rebar covered in C-4.


All the fire extinguishers in the buildings replaced with bombs.

I really hope your joking no one would believe that would they???

a reply to: dragonridr

In all fairness it was through debate and skeptic sites. Who knows who starts the craziness.

Were Nuclear Demolition Devices
Built Into Twin Towers During
Construction.

______beforeitsnews/blogging-citizen-journalism/2015/09/nuclear-demolition-devices-were-built-into-twin-towers-during-construction-2520602.ht ml



WTC DEMO: C4 Coated Rebar. The Buildings Were Built to Demo!

letsrollforums.com...


The fire extinguisher bombs was a thread thing.


But here is the old spray on thermite?

unspy.wordpress.com...

When it was applied it was certainly not known to all that it was super-thermite, but was probably applied under the guise of being a spray coating of paint, fire-proofing, or some kind of asbestos abatement. The people who applied the spray onto the surfaces of the World Trade Center certainly had no idea that what they were applying was actually a very powerful explosive film, although they were probably told not to smoke

How about nukes in the halon fire extinguisher tanks?

www.theeventchronicle.com...#

The destruction of Building 7 was the result of nuclear devices installed in 100 gallon Halon fire extinguishing tanks placed throughout the complex under a fire prevention equipment upgrade program, according to the US Department of Energy report.