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Confused Truther physics with regards to Aircraft & Building impacts.

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posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 04:08 AM
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The truther side have an advantage when it comes to 9/11 not with facts but their pick n mix theories.

No planes, Holograms, painted on explosives, explosives planted later, mini nukes with no blast/heat wave or emp, everything turned to dust, first steel buildings brought down by fire only (they ignore the damage) and last and certainly least Wood's death ray from outer space so you can mix and make up many different theories.

The Other side has this plane impacts cause structural damage & fires, steel is weakened collapse starts and the DYNAMIC loads tear the buildings apart for the Towers, for WTC 7 impact damage from North Tower collapse & fires.

Even although they have AE 9/11 Truth composed of architects & engineers they seem to make really wrong assumptions which to be honest working in a technical role within the construction industry worries me the only saving grace is that fact compared with the numbers of of architects & STRUCTURAL engineers just in the USA alone never mind the rest of the world they are a VERY TINY group. The same happened with the Apollo Moon landings where a group of very educated people were confused by the photographs (no stars,shadows etc) because they didn't understand how exposure/lenses work plenty of threads on here explain that.

To understand how the collapse could happen you really need to UNDERSTAND the construction.

Steel frame tube in tube design with floors suspended on steel angle cleats which the floor trusses were bolted to.
The image below shows a typical wall section all the important components labled.



Although the steel for the walls and core was thickest at the bottom it REDUCED the higher up the building you went the floor design was consistent apart from the mechanical service floors. The floors were supported by the steel angle cleats above (truss seats) NOTHING else so ANY load on the floor had to be resisted by those truss seats if you CAN'T see an issue with that I hope you are not in the construction industry.

To have a good old laugh lets look at TRUTHER high speed collision physics and to see how members have been suckered in due to either lack of experience/education/or believing anything from an official source is a lie, so lets look at some truther beliefs regarding the impacts.
How many times on here have we seen post like THIS a reply to me on here


originally posted by: searcherfortruth
a reply to: wmd_2008
IF a real commercial airplane did hit those towers, at the point of impact they would have bounced off in pieces and crumbled to the ground. They could not have penetrated the way they claim they did.


A simple quote by a member with no real understanding of velocity,collision physics & material strengths.

If that were really true this could never happen.



The problem is that New York has had a few collisions of aircraft and buildings so lets look.

So back to a time when IDIOTS did not have the interweb/facetube/youbook to create sites/pages or channels to peddle BS on what they don’t understand, we have a similar event the date Saturday July 28 1945 the B-25 Bomber Crash in heavy Fog.

First we will have a look at the Construction Differences something TRUTHERS don't consider (especially when comparing building fires)

Empire State Building Limestone covered THICK masonry walls, THICK concrete floors and steel frame construction.

Here is a typical floor cross section.



The black squares steel columns NO clear floor space like the Twin Towers I will refer to this later.

Now we have a MUCH smaller lighter MUCH slower aircraft hitting The Empire State Building lets first of all look at some damage.





Now looking at the pictures you can gather a lot of information on the construction. VERY thick masonry walls, MUCH thicker floor slabs than the Towers supported on steel beams NOT thin trusses.

Some quotes about the crash.


The bomber was flying relatively slowly and quite low, seeking better visibility, when it came upon the Chrysler Building in midtown. It swerved to avoid the building but the move sent it straight into the north side of the Empire State Building, near the 79th floor.



Upon impact, the plane’s jet fuel exploded, filling the interior of the building with flames all the way down to the 75th floor and sending flames out of the hole the plane had ripped open in the building’s side.


Now although this plane had a maximum of 974 gallons if fully loaded with fuel (not 10,000) it still managed to cause fires over 4 floors in a building that wasn't open plan like the Towers. Now how many times has it been claimed on here by the truther side that ALL the fuel would be burnt in the explosion so as we can see they are WRONG.


While the 78th and 79th floors bore the brunt of the damage, one of the B-25's engines fell down an elevator shaft and set off a major fire in the basement. The other engine hurtled across the building and tore through seven walls before emerging from the 33rd Street side of the tower. The debris crashed through the roof of a thirteen-story building across the street where another fire erupted. Other heavy wreckage, including the landing gear, also caused damage to the Empire State and nearby buildings while Stan Lomax reportedly saw part of a wing catapulting towards Madison Avenue.



An engine snapped an elevator cable while at least one woman was riding in the elevator car. The emergency auto brake saved the woman from crashing to the bottom, but the engine fell down the shaft and landed on top of it. Quick-thinking rescuers pulled the woman from the elevator, saving her life.


So elevator cables damage same happened at 9/11 although again many truthers would say that can't have happened.

Also can you imagine if we had the internet back then if people read this below.


The body of the Navy hitch-hiker Albert Perna was found two days after the crash at the bottom of an elevator shaft


How many conspiracies would be built around that fact.

More info HERE

Now this report is VERY interesting from NPR


Gloria Pall worked for the United Service Organization's headquarters on the 56th floor.
"I was at the file cabinet and all of a sudden the building felt like it was just going to topple over," Pall said. "It threw me across the room, and I landed against the wall. People were screaming and looking at each other. We didn't know what to do. We didn't know if it was a bomb or what happened.


So above we have a quote of a person who did not know it was an aircraft thinking it was a bomb now I am sure I have heard claims of bomb sounds from 9/11 the difference with the above NO interweb/facetube idiots to put a false slant on it


Again referring to the truthers AND claims that if the aircraft hit the buildings they should bounce off there only aluminium (they have watched to many Roadrunner cartoons it seems.) Above shows that's not the case

That's the first part next I will look at impacts, locations & the fires.




posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 04:46 AM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

Star and Flag, you did a lot of research and I look forward to more.


+16 more 
posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 04:47 AM
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Again referring to the truthers AND claims that if the aircraft hit the buildings they should bounce off there only aluminium (they have watched to many Roadrunner cartoons it seems.) Above shows that's not the case


Insulting the intelligence of people is certainly no way to gain a winning thread. And The Empire State Building has nothing to do with the WTC ergo any comparison is null and void.



That's the first part next I will look at impacts, locations & the fires.


It's a very pretty thread but also very one dimensional, think I'll give it a miss.

Powerful people planned & executed 9/11, not a bunch of hijackers with box cutters in their rubber ball aircraft. There was just too much to gain from it as the aftermath proves. False flag operations will continuously be used to manufacture support & apply control to the population.

In summary, and from someone who still remembers the events of the day, it stinks. I don't think the truth will ever be known, but I know what didn't happen. Your government and military lies, and not just about 9/11 either


+2 more 
posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 04:49 AM
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At least you were not condescending in anyway.



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:27 AM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

The supersonic pingpong ball was doing just that, travelling at supersonic speed, also, a ping pong ball does not have things jutting out of it, like wings, vertical stabiliser and engines.

Remember the 2nd impact? the RH wing slicing through the wall as it progressed then nose out, with the full cockpit intact without a dent (the speed had been arrested at this point due to the impact) ..... then the ATR72 that hit a bridge taking a "little" chunk of concrete with it as the wing disintegrated, granted the speed was not the same.

Just saying
edit on 2016-12-11T05:29:28-06:002016Sun, 11 Dec 2016 05:29:28 -0600bSunday2912America/Chicago165 by corblimeyguvnor because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:30 AM
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a reply to: Zcustosmorum


Typical reply when SMACKED in the face with FACTS.



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:31 AM
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originally posted by: and14263
At least you were not condescending in anyway.



You know what they say the TRUTH hurts



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:31 AM
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a reply to: Zcustosmorum



Insulting the intelligence of people is certainly no way to gain a winning thread. And The Empire State Building has nothing to do with the WTC ergo any comparison is null and void.

But brings the truth to the foreground. Some folks will believe anything
"Wizard's First Rule"



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:32 AM
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originally posted by: corblimeyguvnor
a reply to: wmd_2008

The supersonic pingpong ball was doing just that, travelling at supersonic speed, also, a ping pong ball does not have things jutting out of it, like wings, vertical stabiliser and engines.

Remember the 2nd impact? the RH wing slicing through the wall as it progressed then nose out, with the full cockpit intact without a dent (the speed had been arrested at this point due to the impact) ..... then the ATR72 that hit a bridge taking a "little" chunk of concrete with it as the wing disintegrated, granted the speed was not the same.

Just saying


PROVE the cockpit was intact
Also the planes did not malke a perfect hole because the steel failed at the spandrel plates





edit on 11-12-2016 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-12-2016 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-12-2016 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:37 AM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Zcustosmorum


Typical reply when SMACKED in the face with FACTS.




We clearly use different dictionaries



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:40 AM
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a reply to: Zcustosmorum


I am from Scotland SO not my government also my first job was in the DESIGN/DRAWING office of a structural steelwork company so I do KNOW what I am talking about

edit on 11-12-2016 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

Check the videos that are available, just looked at my archive of the day and it is quite clear, once the nose is clear of the building by a substantial amount it explodes with the rest of the aircraft, dont forget, this has impacted one side of the building and exited the other side (with things in between) Its still intact and tube shaped in definition with windows



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:53 AM
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a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

You must of just skimmed the OP.

The outside walls of the buildings were glass and aluminium, and non load bearing. There will be almost zero resistance.

That's why the plane flew in like it did, like a hot knife through butter.



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 05:59 AM
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a reply to: Chadwickus

Did they design change the building then? only glass and aluminium huh? Speak to the hand!

2nd



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 06:04 AM
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a reply to: wmd_2008



One of the huge flaws we went over was the floor design as well. Used to be a concrete slabs were set in pace with supporting columns. That's why something like the empire state building has column all over the place. With the world trade center they figured they would try something different. they hooked a metal corrugated deck then put 10 cm of light weight cement. More like plaster than cement has a little more than half the strength of concrete. The problem was do to the design they created floors that were literally one piece held up trusses that only allowed the building to move so much before the floor would lose its seat in the truss. Had the building been designed like prior sky scrapers the individual slabs may have broke but other slabs and columns would have taken the added weight. In this design there is no where for the weight to shift the moment the outside walls lose contact with the floor through expansion or twisting by increased weight. Those floors were never meant to hold the weight of a fully loaded airplane. When you do the math its amazing they held up as long as they did. But once one floor gives way the added weight just continues on to the next floor. Again this wouldn't happen in other buildings as damage to one concrete slab wont effect the one near it.

PS sorry I just realized you may discuss this in part two didn't mean to spoil it for you. You may also find this handy at my college the engineering department did a study they used this. There conclusion was the building actually maintained its integrity longer than they thought it would. they attributed this to the fact that a lot of the jet fuel didn't remain on the floor but instead entered elevator shafts.


911research.wtc7.net...

911research.wtc7.net...
edit on 12/11/16 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 06:09 AM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Zcustosmorum


I am from Scotland SO not my government also my first job was in the DESIGN/DRAWING office of a structural steelwork company so I do KNOW what I am talking about


Ok, well the U.S. government and military lies, and I know what I'm talking about


And a pretty opinion is NOT fact



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 06:20 AM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

If you´d screw down your attitude to a bearable level, maybe people would be more inclinded to read your theory.



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 06:21 AM
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Every thread involving this





posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 06:29 AM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

This thread stinks. Similar to the last one you made about a week ago also condescending to people that don't share your view. AND you brought that stupid ping pong ball video AGAIN.

On top of that, there's more of your rhetoric on the way too in upcoming installments. Please just get a new hobby. You live in Scotland right? You guys have some amazing booze there. Enjoy it! But stop trying to support a lie that's been pushed on the public.

The Official Story is a dumpster full of steaming bulls***.

That. Is. A. Fact.



posted on Dec, 11 2016 @ 06:32 AM
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Wow, a logical look at, and presentation of evidence! Nice thread! S&F




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