Top military commanders in history.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Queen Boudica of the Iceni.

She got rip roaring angry at the Romans in Britain, and walked all over them for quite a time, in revenge for the treatment of her family at the hands of the horrid, morally retarded, toga wearing bastards. I admire her style.

Nice.

I think you would have better luck if you broke the question down by era.
Who are the top 20th century military commanders and so forth.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I think you would have better luck if you broke the question down by era.
Who are the top 20th century military commanders and so forth.

Awe man I think that take half the fun out of it. A lot of them fought each other..

Prob should have specified , given the same troops count and technology.

originally posted by: alldaylong
Arthur Wellesley Duke Of Wellington
Bernard Montgomery
Horatio Nelson ( 1st Viscount Nelson )

Napoleon was undone by Wellington, so anyone who thinks Napoleon was good need to consider the person who bettered him. People concentrate on Waterloo, but he ran circles around the French in the Peninsular War.

Nelson is the most decisive naval genius of all time.

People tend to forget about Field Marshal Slim, need I say more?

Believe it or not the Australian army in teaching guerilla warfare in the Vietnam war focused on Geronimo,he did a lot with not much.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Do some reading on Jackson's Shenandoah Campaign. He kicked the # out of the Yankees all over the valley, all with a force about 1/3 of what he was taking on. He took on two or three different large bodies of US troops and pretty decisively defeated them, multiple times.

Beyond that, using his brigade to halt a retreat at Manassas and plug the line had already put his name in the history books. He's also credited with being the first one to unleash the "Rebel Yell" during battle, after telling his men to scream as they charged Federal troops.

Honestly not sure what you're reading if you're not able to find much in the way that explains why he's so highly regarded.

My reading has only given roughly the same amount of info as you did. Choosing to focus on the man rather than his battle strategy. He was a weird dude, so it tends to steal the conversation

No doubt he was unshakable.

And every one on most lists were excellent motivators of men.

Such as when Forrest had "encircled" a larger union force that he could not beat. The union was entrenched on a hill. So Forrest had his men and artillery keep circling the one thing vantage point the union troops had. Giving the impression he had WAY MORE GUNS AND MEN then he had. Then Forrest offered them terms and they surrendered.

He was a crazy hothead who was still humble enough to know he couldn't win in a fight, but smart enough to beat his opposition anyway..

That's some brilliant stuff...and from a guy who could not read, didn't go to West Point and never read a military book in his life.

What's stonewalls brilliant action? And I'm not saying it's not there..just that I haven't heard it yet.

Uh...the entire Shenandoah Campaign of 1862.

Like I said.

Even when he lost at Port Republic, the opposing force commanders were so thoroughly shamed that one resigned almost immediately following the battle and another one never got another combat command for the rest of the war. And that's after they beat Jackson.

a reply to: paraphi

Napoleon in a way was a hack.

Almost all his successes come off the backs of his field marshals which he then took credit for.

Most of Napoleons best moves and ideas came with Field Marshall Nicolas Davout.

As his legend grew he listened less and less to them and that is when he started suffering his biggest setbacks.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I could not choose a best commander but Julius Ceaser was definitely one of the top ranking.

Shaka KaShenzangakhona aka Shaka Zulu is one of the great's, unless you believe in reincarnation or accept that he may have had outside education he independently reinvented many Roman and classical tactic's and by the time of his death had grown his tribe into the Zulu Empire/

Chengis Khan (Temogen) is of course another great leader, interesting both he and Shaka used the Bull's horn's technique, Chengis did it on a huge scale though using a small army to harry the enemy and then feint a retreat pulling the enemy into a pursuit, sometimes the trap was so huge it may have taken hours to close, the two arm's or horn's of the bull being far out of sight of the army and then once they had began there chase and broken there own formation's these Horn's/Arm's would encircle and wipe there target army out.

Alexander the Great, of course his father Phillip of Macedon probably tought him most of what he knew but even so in his short life he conquered a vast area and was expert in mixed unit tactic's of his period, the defeat of the persian army at his hand was and probably still is studied ever after.

We don't know the full history of China but to unify such a huge land and to bind so many disparate and waring nation's, probably more than just the seven kingdom's as there would have been other region's also, together Chin must also be regarded as one of the great leaders of history though few of these men were what we would regard as good people and often acted in despicable and cruel fashion against there vanquished enemy's.

General Eisenhower and General Montgomery, George S Patton, Rommel and of course perhaps Georgy Zukhov were all brilliant leaders.

Now imagine you live in a tiny young nation state filled with refugee's whom have come back to resettle and reclaim there ancestral homeland, your people have strong religious conviction that it is there's and have fled persecution and being the kicking dog of many other nation's were they lived as outcast's and alien's even in the country's they were born into.
A day come's when all around you massive army's suddenly attack en mass and yet thank's to this devotion of your people whom bulk out your military and despite being outnumbered many to one you still manage to defeat the aggressive attacker's and even bring them to the negotiation table (Those that you did not send running for the hill's), well that is roughly the history of the six day war.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The Jewish actually had many leader's in that war whom deserve to regarded among the great commanders' of history.
Here is one.
en.wikipedia.org...

But a general, a leader is only as good as his men, of course he can also be a utter and total disgrace and not worthy to lead anyone.
Maybe I am being unfair but Leutenant General Arthur Percival was given his rank and position as a grace and favour Job, you know running a colonial garrison whom were never really expected to do much more than perform the odd police action.
www.historylearningsite.co.uk...
He was however unfit for the Rank and Job he held and his men had poor moral, were not placed well and despite outnumbering the japanese force he lost the command and surrendered to the Japanese force which had been sent to test Singapore's defenses and the supposedly impregnable fortress city fell into there hand's with dire consequence's that accelerated the Japanese campaign and cause danger for Australia.
Many believe to this day that Percival could have held the city despite losing air superiority, that he panicked and surrendered because he simply did not know what to do but of course we were not in his shoe's, his men though paid a very high price.
Percival actually had his garrison stand to attention while the Japense officers came to recieve his surrender, He humiliated his office and his men and many of those men whom were perfectly decent and well trained British Army soldiers many of whom had not even fired a shot in the invasion so had not even been given the chance to see if they COULD defeat the smaller Japanese force were then worked to death on the Burma Railway.
Footage of the Large British Garrison surrendering to the small bandy legged Japanese soldiers whom they outnumbered by a considerable percentage was then aired both in Japan and in Germany for propeganda reason's and many soldiers regarded percival as less than a traitor for his incompetence.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Well, I agree with Subutai, however he was Ghengis Khans forward General so I have always questioned whether Ghengis deserves the credit. Had Subutais not been called back to the capital due to death (his daughter? cant remember) eastern Europe would of fallen to the Mongols.

I agree regarfing Alexander, folks just dont give his genius the credit it deserves any more. Using engineering, cultural myths, intimidation, so many methods with so few warriors, simply amazing.

I agree with OP with Hannibal within the top 3 for similar reasons.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: alldaylong
Arthur Wellesley Duke Of Wellington
Bernard Montgomery
Horatio Nelson ( 1st Viscount Nelson )

Napoleon was undone by Wellington, so anyone who thinks Napoleon was good need to consider the person who bettered him. People concentrate on Waterloo, but he ran circles around the French in the Peninsular War.

Nelson is the most decisive naval genius of all time.

People tend to forget about Field Marshal Slim, need I say more?

Yea in my 2 sec look into him it was impressive 60+ battles!

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: paraphi

Napoleon in a way was a hack.

Almost all his successes come off the backs of his field marshals which he then took credit for.

Most of Napoleons best moves and ideas came with Field Marshall Nicolas Davout.

As his legend grew he listened less and less to them and that is when he started suffering his biggest setbacks.

Sounds like hitlers mentor lol

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: JoshuaCox

I could not choose a best commander but Julius Ceaser was definitely one of the top ranking.

Shaka KaShenzangakhona aka Shaka Zulu is one of the great's, unless you believe in reincarnation or accept that he may have had outside education he independently reinvented many Roman and classical tactic's and by the time of his death had grown his tribe into the Zulu Empire/

Chengis Khan (Temogen) is of course another great leader, interesting both he and Shaka used the Bull's horn's technique, Chengis did it on a huge scale though using a small army to harry the enemy and then feint a retreat pulling the enemy into a pursuit, sometimes the trap was so huge it may have taken hours to close, the two arm's or horn's of the bull being far out of sight of the army and then once they had began there chase and broken there own formation's these Horn's/Arm's would encircle and wipe there target army out.

Alexander the Great, of course his father Phillip of Macedon probably tought him most of what he knew but even so in his short life he conquered a vast area and was expert in mixed unit tactic's of his period, the defeat of the persian army at his hand was and probably still is studied ever after.

We don't know the full history of China but to unify such a huge land and to bind so many disparate and waring nation's, probably more than just the seven kingdom's as there would have been other region's also, together Chin must also be regarded as one of the great leaders of history though few of these men were what we would regard as good people and often acted in despicable and cruel fashion against there vanquished enemy's.

General Eisenhower and General Montgomery, George S Patton, Rommel and of course perhaps Georgy Zukhov were all brilliant leaders.

Now imagine you live in a tiny young nation state filled with refugee's whom have come back to resettle and reclaim there ancestral homeland, your people have strong religious conviction that it is there's and have fled persecution and being the kicking dog of many other nation's were they lived as outcast's and alien's even in the country's they were born into.
A day come's when all around you massive army's suddenly attack en mass and yet thank's to this devotion of your people whom bulk out your military and despite being outnumbered many to one you still manage to defeat the aggressive attacker's and even bring them to the negotiation table (Those that you did not send running for the hill's), well that is roughly the history of the six day war.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

The Jewish actually had many leader's in that war whom deserve to regarded among the great commanders' of history.
Here is one.
en.wikipedia.org...

But a general, a leader is only as good as his men, of course he can also be a utter and total disgrace and not worthy to lead anyone.
Maybe I am being unfair but Leutenant General Arthur Percival was given his rank and position as a grace and favour Job, you know running a colonial garrison whom were never really expected to do much more than perform the odd police action.
www.historylearningsite.co.uk...
He was however unfit for the Rank and Job he held and his men had poor moral, were not placed well and despite outnumbering the japanese force he lost the command and surrendered to the Japanese force which had been sent to test Singapore's defenses and the supposedly impregnable fortress city fell into there hand's with dire consequence's that accelerated the Japanese campaign and cause danger for Australia.
Many believe to this day that Percival could have held the city despite losing air superiority, that he panicked and surrendered because he simply did not know what to do but of course we were not in his shoe's, his men though paid a very high price.
Percival actually had his garrison stand to attention while the Japense officers came to recieve his surrender, He humiliated his office and his men and many of those men whom were perfectly decent and well trained British Army soldiers many of whom had not even fired a shot in the invasion so had not even been given the chance to see if they COULD defeat the smaller Japanese force were then worked to death on the Burma Railway.
Footage of the Large British Garrison surrendering to the small bandy legged Japanese soldiers whom they outnumbered by a considerable percentage was then aired both in Japan and in Germany for propeganda reason's and many soldiers regarded percival as less than a traitor for his incompetence.

I disagree about one thing....

A great general makes his men way better than they are normally...

And I have seen real world examples in th most peculiar settings.

How about we get biblical and call on Joshua...

Just throwing that out there...

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I agree that a Great General inspires his men, my point is that a poor general is not so good at all, Percival I must point out was a competant first world war officer and earned a medal at the somme but he was not a good general as history show's, under his command were some of the best trained soldiers in the world of that time, they had however been given propaganda and thought that the Japanese would be a walk over, after all they were soldiers of the British Empire.

It is sad but true that we are all great generals with hindsight were we can see what happened on the ground, Percival may have simply been out of his element faced with a tropical war against a determined and professional enemy and his own wartime experience was of trench war on the fields of first world war Europe so perhaps I was a bit caustic in my appraisal of the man but it still rub's many up the wrong way when they see the logistical superiority of the British in numbers and resources and especially when they find out that the Japanese had poor supply line's, were over extended and would have been forced to retreat if the battle had just taken a little longer.

It can be argued also that the loss of Singapore to the Japanese was actually the death knell of our empire, had it not fallen perhaps even though beleaguered we would have told the Yank's that agreeing to disband our empire after the war in order to secure there aid was not on the table, after all they needed us as well but the fall of singapore sent shockwaves at home as well back in the UK, our empire fall's also hastened the end of the other remaining cononial powers with france holding out almost to the last and only a few token territory's still held today by us and the french, Hong Kong remember was never really part of Empire but was on a treatise lease from China so I leave that precious jewel out of the assessment.

originally posted by: Terminal1
How about we get biblical and call on Joshua...

Just throwing that out there...

I'm not sure "blew a horn" and god did the rest counts as amazing strategy, but hey cheat to win lol.

A couple almost forgotten names to consider-Mad Anthony Wayne,George Rogers Clark.Clark did a hell of a lot with small forces,Wayne was a very effective indian fighter.Speaking of Indians, Pontiac and Tecumseh should be on the list with Sitting Bull,Geronimo,and Crazy Horse.

The US Civil War could donate a lot to this list that was skipped right over. But I am going to throw one out as one of the best whom is known as being the worst. His worst came from growing overconfident and dying in his last disastrous action. I am of course speaking of the youngest general in US history, BG George Armstrong Custer "the Boy General". He graduated last in his class at Westpoint but was still the best Cavalry officer in the Union. He was an amazing officer but became overconfident and reckless during the Indian wars out west (when he lost his wartime commission of BG.

As for all time greatest . . . tie between Joshua (of the bible who wiped out entire nations while protecting a massive civilian following), and An-Nasir Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub (Saladan, the conqueror of Jerusalem . . . while everyone was fighting for the Holyland only Saladan was able to take and hold it).

1) Sabutai, greatest cavalry commander of his, or any other, time.

2) Chester Nimitz, raised up a morale shattered Pacific Fleet after Pearl Harbor, and by 1943, had begun shaping it into an invincible military machine.

2a) Raymond Spruance, tactical commander at Midway, made the right decisions at the right time, and later lead the rebuilt, retooled US Navy across the Pacific, again, making the right decisions at the right time.

3) Nathan Bedford Forrest, second greatest cavalry commander of all time. Equally equipped, a cavalry brawl between Sabutai and Forrest would have been epic...

4) Maj. General George H. Thomas (Union Army of Tennessee) There's a reason he was called the "sledge of Nashville". To call him overlooked would be an understatement.

5) Hannibal. Quite the family...


Ask me again next week, and I'll probably think of others...

a reply to: khnum

Geronimo and George Rogers Clark all feature prominently in Special Forces training, or should. Incredible leaders, and highly skilled warriors.

a reply to: Maxatoria

Or as Nathan Forrest phrased it; Get there firstest, with the mostest. Or something like that.

A good general will beat you with his.

A great one will beat you with his, then take yours and beat his.